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"The best worse cars ever made"... by Tony Kania
Started on: 08-31-2014 09:54 AM
Replies: 10 (386 views)
Last post by: 2.5 on 09-02-2014 08:57 AM
Tony Kania
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Report this Post08-31-2014 09:54 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Tony KaniaSend a Private Message to Tony KaniaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The snippet that mentions our little cars from the Yahoo article. Not everything mentioned may be true.

......................................................................................................................................
Details
By Brett Berk
August 29, 2014 4:05 PM




1984–88 Pontiac Fiero
The Pig in Lipstick: Imagined as a sporty two-seater with unique engine, transmission, and suspension components, the Fiero ended up taking its guts from Chevy's Chevette and Citation economy line. It did 0 to 60 mph in...11.3 seconds.

Best of the lot: The final-edition 1988 GT, with its upgraded suspension, engine, body, and brakes.

Past five years: The Fiero's worth has dipped about 4 percent, but Hagerty says it's poised for an uptick as demand for wedge-shaped cars from that era heats up. (Average 2014 sale price: $5,380. Highest sale price: $21,200, in 2011.)

[This message has been edited by Tony Kania (edited 08-31-2014).]

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stickboy
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Report this Post08-31-2014 11:14 AM Click Here to See the Profile for stickboySend a Private Message to stickboyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I saw that too. I believe the 4 cylinder got an upgrade, but not the v-6...
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Raydar
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Report this Post08-31-2014 04:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by stickboy:

I saw that too. I believe the 4 cylinder got an upgrade, but not the v-6...


In terms of horsepower, you're right. If you can call less than 10 HP an upgrade.
Otherwise, upgrades were incremental, year to year.
85 Got the V6, and a 5 speed with the 4 cylinder.
86 got the fastback.
Late 86 got the Getrag 5 speed with the V6.
87 got a larger gas tank and solid state headlight motor switching.
88s got the revised suspension and brakes. The 4 cylinder didn't get the rear sway bar or 15" wheels, but received all of the other upgrades.
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Old Lar
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Report this Post08-31-2014 04:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Old LarSend a Private Message to Old LarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You need to realize that in the 80s the national speed limit was 55 mph. Even the Corvettes of that vintage were dogs. Writing about the cars of that vintage and comparing it today's cars performance is comparing apples to watermelons.
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jediperk
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Report this Post08-31-2014 05:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jediperkSend a Private Message to jediperkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Old Lar:

You need to realize that in the 80s the national speed limit was 55 mph. Even the Corvettes of that vintage were dogs. Writing about the cars of that vintage and comparing it today's cars performance is comparing apples to watermelons.


+1
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Formula88
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Report this Post08-31-2014 08:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Formula88Send a Private Message to Formula88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by stickboy:

I saw that too. I believe the 4 cylinder got an upgrade, but not the v-6...


Since the Fiero was 4-cylinder only in 1984, the V6 was an upgrade.
At the time, it was also the highest output 60º V6 GT had sold to date.
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hyperv6
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Report this Post09-01-2014 08:58 AM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
We all need to be honest the Fiero has it's flaws. Be it the lack of GM interest and investment to Pontiac to get it right in the first 4 years or just being from the 80's it has it's issues. I have always said the Fiero is the perfect case study of the flawed GM culture. The MR2 did not kill the Fiero but the GM culture did. Much of the foolishness and GM infighting is the same the led up to the bankruptcy.

But the Fiero in stock form is much like any English sports car. We have some warts here and there but we are still a lot of fun to drive. But we do have better electrics and reliability. Sports cars are not always about max power but fun to drive.

Sports cars from the past all have their flaws but that is what set them apart from each other. It is only in the recent years where sports cars have been taken to the next level where they have few handling flaws. Harsh ride, bump steer and other issues are now a thing of the past due to technology today. Back then you either got handling or a good ride but not both.

Either way the Fiero is one of only a few American cars that will be of any interest in the future. The Mustang, Firebird Corvette and Camaro along with some limited production cars like a Shelby GLHS and the GMC Syclone will hold some interest but so few are left.
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lateFormula
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Report this Post09-01-2014 11:16 AM Click Here to See the Profile for lateFormulaSend a Private Message to lateFormulaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by hyperv6:
I have always said the Fiero is the perfect case study of the flawed GM culture. The MR2 did not kill the Fiero but the GM culture did.


I won't argue that the GM culture was not a contributing factor in the short life of the Fiero, but the #1 reason was rapidly diminishing sales figures which was partially the result of competing vehicles like the Toyota MR2, the Honda Civic CRX, the Dodge Daytona, the Chrysler Conquest, and even the Ford Escort EXP/Mercury Lynx LN7.
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hyperv6
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Report this Post09-01-2014 12:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by lateFormula:


I won't argue that the GM culture was not a contributing factor in the short life of the Fiero, but the #1 reason was rapidly diminishing sales figures which was partially the result of competing vehicles like the Toyota MR2, the Honda Civic CRX, the Dodge Daytona, the Chrysler Conquest, and even the Ford Escort EXP/Mercury Lynx LN7.


That was part of it but there were other factors you have to consider.

#1 you can not build a 2 seat limited use car in six figures the first couple years and not expect a massive drop off of sales. Pontiac had to over sell the car till they could get the GM 80 program into the plant and when that failed the end was near as the plant was way under capacity even at the 30,000 plus sales.

#2 Low priced 2 seat sports cars have limited lives. Just look at all the cars you names and the others you did not. Few lived long lives s it is a limited segment for most where this is often a second or third car and you just don't replace them every 5 years. Even the likes of the RX7 could not last.

Even if the Fiero had lived I would have been shocked if it lasted another 5 years. It is hard to say for sure but GM was not in a good place and everything had to have been right to continue the car.

The only acceptations to long lived two seat low priced cars has been the Corvette and Miata. The key to the Miata has been a global market and limited sales in the states to 18K or less per year with many special paint and option models. Care full marketing has prolonged the car. But even now the development cost are out of sight and even trying to share them with Alfa has been taxing on Mazda. The loss of the Ford ownership and money has cost them greatly.

Then the infighting at GM from Chevy just did not help anything at all. To make this car work it would have taken good support from GM and from all the divisions to work together and that is back to the flawed culture again.

While many blame GM for the failure the truth is Pontiac also made many mistakes with the risks they took. Selling as many cars as they did the first year could almost be seen as sealing the fate right there. But to be fair if they did not take the risk they may never had made it to market at all.

I think in hind sight that Pontiac saw a need to revitalize he division as coming out of the early 80's Pontiac had been seen as a possible cut before Olds. The Fiero was kind of a hail mary to help bring peoples attention to Pontiac again. It did help sell a hell of a lot of Grand AM's by bringing Excitement back to the division and people to the show rooms. The fact is the Fiero in 5 years did just what Pontiac wanted and saved them from the first axe as Oldsmobile did finally get.

But to say other two seat models finished off is true to a point but there are many factors like the ones I pointed out here and even others that all played into this. The Fiero was the perfect storm here and there was a lot that played into this. This is why we all need to preserve and locate the history now as many of the people involved are getting older. Once they are gone their side of the story is gone.

This is why I wish someone would publish a definitive book on the Fiero as to preserve the full history of the car as even the die hard fans get some of it wrong yet today. Some of the past stories were proven false and yet they still are around today like the Lotus deal etc. The funny part is that the real story is even more interesting as to how GM designed the suspension but really went to Porsche Engineering to have the turn in and scrub radius tuned. But yet so many have not heard the truth.

I also think we saw the same thing with the Kappa cars as once most of the people who wanted one bought one the sales dried up. It is a limited market sales wise and profit wise. This is why so many top sports cars cost so much as they have more room to work to make a profit on lower volumes.

The bottom line is the whole Fiero deal just was not that simple or easy to point out one or two things that cause the end. It was many things all working together that lead to the end.

[This message has been edited by hyperv6 (edited 09-01-2014).]

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Alex4mula
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Report this Post09-01-2014 01:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Alex4mulaClick Here to Email Alex4mulaSend a Private Message to Alex4mulaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Every time I see a "Worst Car Ever" book at book stores I always look for the Fiero. Never seen it listed. But the Aztek does
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2.5
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Report this Post09-02-2014 08:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
"Average 2014 sale price: $5,380."

That is alot higher than most around here.
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