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Front sidemarkers not working by rd1
Started on: 07-29-2014 05:13 AM
Replies: 22 (746 views)
Last post by: Bloozberry on 08-04-2014 06:26 PM
rd1
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Report this Post07-29-2014 05:13 AM Click Here to See the Profile for rd1Click Here to Email rd1Send a Private Message to rd1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
So here is the problem, I saw that the sidemarkers should be on when the lights are on. My front sidemarkers are working only when switched left or right turn signal. The bulbs are fine. I saw there are 2 wires each side, one black(or dark grey) and light blue/dark blue that is giving the + signal. I'm not sure if they worked when I bought the car, but the reason that they are not working could be that it was illegal here in Europe and somebody turned it of. Can somebody help me where to check that, how to connect them back? It's an 88GT V6

Any suggestion, wiring schemes etc. would be helpful
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Report this Post07-29-2014 06:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for seajaiSend a Private Message to seajaiEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
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rd1
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Report this Post07-30-2014 03:53 AM Click Here to See the Profile for rd1Click Here to Email rd1Send a Private Message to rd1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Could you help me, if I see it right, the Lt and Dk Blue wires are going from the instrument cluster? Where could they be disconnected that the park light aren't working, but the turn light is?
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Report this Post07-30-2014 08:30 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Make sure the bulbs used are still double filament.....and the socket has not be altered. There should be 2 contact points at the bottom of the park/turn socket.
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Report this Post07-30-2014 08:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for California KidSend a Private Message to California KidEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Many times this is caused by oxide corrosion of terminals in socket (just needs to be cleaned), or bad/loose ground wire connection.
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Report this Post07-30-2014 09:27 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
This is the second time I have heard it is illegal to have rear side markers in Europe, whats the reason out of curiosity?

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 07-30-2014).]

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Bloozberry
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Report this Post07-30-2014 02:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BloozberrySend a Private Message to BloozberryEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Gall757:
Make sure the bulbs used are still double filament.....and the socket has not be altered. There should be 2 contact points at the bottom of the park/turn socket.


You're probably thinking about the front turn signals... the side markers are simple #197 style bulbs with a single filament that turns on and off to blink.
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Report this Post07-30-2014 06:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierogt28Click Here to Email fierogt28Send a Private Message to fierogt28Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Bloozberry:


You're probably thinking about the front turn signals... the side markers are simple #197 style bulbs with a single filament that turns on and off to blink.


Hey Blooze, aren't they 194 bulbs to be correct??

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88 GT, Loaded, 5-speed.
88 GT, 5-speed. Beechwood interior, All original.

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rd1
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Report this Post07-30-2014 07:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rd1Click Here to Email rd1Send a Private Message to rd1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 2.5:

This is the second time I have heard it is illegal to have rear side markers in Europe, whats the reason out of curiosity?



Years that was the car imported was almost everything illegal, including the side markers or the 3rd brake light (my Firebird 94' has the cover, but without socket)... Nowadays we have Volvo's that are the only EU cars produced that have side markers
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Report this Post07-30-2014 10:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BloozberrySend a Private Message to BloozberryEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fierogt28:
Hey Blooze, aren't they 194 bulbs to be correct??


Oops... typo. Good catch. They are indeed 194's.
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theogre
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Report this Post07-31-2014 02:01 AM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by rd1:
So here is the problem, I saw that the sidemarkers should be on when the lights are on. My front sidemarkers are working only when switched left or right turn signal. The bulbs are fine. I saw there are 2 wires each side, one black(or dark grey) and light blue/dark blue that is giving the + signal. I'm not sure if they worked when I bought the car, but the reason that they are not working could be that it was illegal here in Europe and somebody turned it of. Can somebody help me where to check that, how to connect them back? It's an 88GT V6

Any suggestion, wiring schemes etc. would be helpful

Yes, If car was imported from US/Canada... (Car was made for those markets) Car was modify so pass local laws.
The mod is simple. They likely cut blue wires and ground/earth the bulb side. Find the cut ends and splice back.

USDOT rules requires Fiero front markers to blink when parking lights are on or off because Front bulb setup buried in the car's "bumper."
OE Fiero front marker for US/Canada use wire as image above and shown how they work on LED Marker Light

You would need to check what is legal for you before you change light setup. Croatia just joined EU last year.

I Think, Current EU rules for import from US is...
OE Front Markers on when parking lamps are on.
You add a light between front wheel and door that blinks when turn light is active.

Don't know rear marker rules. If light isn't allowed then just pull the bulb. Use Silicon grease on the socket to keep out water.

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rd1
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Report this Post07-31-2014 05:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rd1Click Here to Email rd1Send a Private Message to rd1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by theogre:

Yes, If car was imported from US/Canada... (Car was made for those markets) Car was modify so pass local laws.
The mod is simple. They likely cut blue wires and ground/earth the bulb side. Find the cut ends and splice back.

USDOT rules requires Fiero front markers to blink when parking lights are on or off because Front bulb setup buried in the car's "bumper."
OE Fiero front marker for US/Canada use wire as image above and shown how they work on LED Marker Light

You would need to check what is legal for you before you change light setup. Croatia just joined EU last year.

I Think, Current EU rules for import from US is...
OE Front Markers on when parking lamps are on.
You add a light between front wheel and door that blinks when turn light is active.

Don't know rear marker rules. If light isn't allowed then just pull the bulb. Use Silicon grease on the socket to keep out water.



Thx man, that is a good advice, but I don't understand one thing, is that side marker made to blink as a turn signal or is it just a marker light? When yes, where or what turns the + signal of and makes it to blink?

P.S. Your site is saved to my favorites for a long time, big + for that!
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Bloozberry
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Report this Post07-31-2014 09:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BloozberrySend a Private Message to BloozberryEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
When you only turn on the park lights, power flows from the tail fuse through the switch, through the light and then grounds through one of the filaments in the front park/turn lights.

To understand how the side marker blinks, you must understand that there are two ways to make a light turn off. The first is to withdraw power from the light bulb. The second way is to feed 12V to both sides of the light bulb. This second way is how the Fiero side markers blink. When you turn on the flasher while the park lights are on, 12 volts is fed to one side of the side marker bulb as above, but the other terminal of the side marker bulb is also fed 12V from the turn b/u fuse through the flasher, through the turn/haz switch assy, to the dash indicator and to the "ground" side of the side marker light. When the flasher unit intermittently turns the power off from the turn b/u fuse, the side marker turns back on again because one side of the bulb is still being fed 12V from the tail fuse.
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Mickey_Moose
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Report this Post08-01-2014 01:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Mickey_MooseClick Here to visit Mickey_Moose's HomePageClick Here to Email Mickey_MooseSend a Private Message to Mickey_MooseEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by rd1:

So here is the problem, I saw that the sidemarkers should be on when the lights are on. My front sidemarkers are working only when switched left or right turn signal. The bulbs are fine. I saw there are 2 wires each side, one black(or dark grey) and light blue/dark blue that is giving the + signal. I'm not sure if they worked when I bought the car, but the reason that they are not working could be that it was illegal here in Europe and somebody turned it of. Can somebody help me where to check that, how to connect them back? It's an 88GT V6

Any suggestion, wiring schemes etc. would be helpful


If they flash:

1) bulbs are good
2) sockets are good

If they don't turn on with the light switch, only 2 things can affect that:

1) light switch bad - not likely
2) wire bad/disconnected from the light switch

Check you have a wire connected to terminal E on the light switch (probably). Then check the C100 plug (big plug, front compartment going through the front bulkhead) Pin F10. The brown wire that is connected to C100 pin F10 is probably cut either at the plug or someplace down the line until the 'junction' where it meets up with the other 4 brown wire for each socket.

You can download the service manual from (88SM.pdf ): http://www.captfiero.com/paperbased/Tech%20Sheets/

You can find that drawing posted above on page: 8A-110-01
The position of the C100 plug is on page (bottom right): 8A-201-10
C100 pinout in on page: 8A-202-01

[This message has been edited by Mickey_Moose (edited 08-01-2014).]

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rd1
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Report this Post08-02-2014 06:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rd1Click Here to Email rd1Send a Private Message to rd1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thx a lot formthe good tips, monday I'll check what is really going on, you all just helped me to understand how it works, it will be easier now
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rd1
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Report this Post08-02-2014 07:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rd1Click Here to Email rd1Send a Private Message to rd1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Mickey_Moose:


If they flash:

1) bulbs are good
2) sockets are good

If they don't turn on with the light switch, only 2 things can affect that:

1) light switch bad - not likely
2) wire bad/disconnected from the light switch

Check you have a wire connected to terminal E on the light switch (probably). Then check the C100 plug (big plug, front compartment going through the front bulkhead) Pin F10. The brown wire that is connected to C100 pin F10 is probably cut either at the plug or someplace down the line until the 'junction' where it meets up with the other 4 brown wire for each socket.

You can download the service manual from (88SM.pdf ): http://www.captfiero.com/paperbased/Tech%20Sheets/

You can find that drawing posted above on page: 8A-110-01
The position of the C100 plug is on page (bottom right): 8A-201-10
C100 pinout in on page: 8A-202-01


I can't find the sections you mentioned above, neither the pages or the c100 plug
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Report this Post08-03-2014 10:09 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Mickey_MooseClick Here to visit Mickey_Moose's HomePageClick Here to Email Mickey_MooseSend a Private Message to Mickey_MooseEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by rd1:

I can't find the sections you mentioned above, neither the pages or the c100 plug


Just go to the pages (ex: 8A-110-01) I posted and the info is there. The page numbers are at the top of most pages (some of the pages are displayed sideways in the file, the number is on the right most side (or at the top on vertical pages)). Look under the "Electrical Diagnosis" bookmark for section 8A. The first part of the page number is the section.
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rd1
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Report this Post08-04-2014 09:52 AM Click Here to See the Profile for rd1Click Here to Email rd1Send a Private Message to rd1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Solved the problem, you were right, the black wires/dark grey were grounded, found the wires that have a constant + and now it's working.

Another question, is it hard to rewire the sidemarkers, I would love to see them lighting even when the lights are off. Can they be bricked somehow in the fuse box?
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Bloozberry
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Report this Post08-04-2014 12:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BloozberrySend a Private Message to BloozberryEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
So you want only the side markers to light up but not the front and rear markers?
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rd1
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Report this Post08-04-2014 02:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rd1Click Here to Email rd1Send a Private Message to rd1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I would like that the front and rear sidemarkers work all the time, not only with the lights turned on, because I love the sidemarkers lighting
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Bloozberry
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Report this Post08-04-2014 03:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BloozberrySend a Private Message to BloozberryEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
It's possible but it would be somewhat involved because you'd have to snip the brown wires leading to all four side markers and splice new wires to them that would have to be routed from the front and rear quarters, into the cabin, and then to a fuse that's hot while the ignition switch is in run. Running the wires would be the most difficult part since there are blank fuse slots in the panel that could easily be used for power.
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rd1
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Report this Post08-04-2014 05:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rd1Click Here to Email rd1Send a Private Message to rd1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Very good, thx... But aren't the sidemarkers fused, if yes, then it would have to be easier to supply them in the fusebox. If not, then it's the only way, but I don't like to add new wires into the cabin
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Report this Post08-04-2014 06:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BloozberrySend a Private Message to BloozberryEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Perhaps you've misunderstood how the original wiring is laid out. There is only one brown wire that leads from the light switch all the way to the back of the car. Near the rear bumper, that one brown wire branches out into a huge splice where 6 other wires take the power to individual RH park/marker lights and the license plate lights and a 7th wire leads to another splice located on the LH side of the bumper where four more wires run to the individual LH park/marker lights.

Since there aren't individual wires for each of these lights that run all the way to the fuse panel, the only way to separate the rear side markers from the rest of the circuit is to cut the brown wires near the rear side marker lights, splice them together using an extension, and run an additional single wire from that splice all the way to the fuse panel.

The same thing has to be done in the front.

Once you've got your two wires (one for the front and one for the rear) near the fuse panel, you can crimp on a simple blade style connector to both wires, and plug the blade into one of the slots marked IGN (see photo, disregard the slots marked BAT). Those IGN ports are fused through the 10 Amp Gages Fuse and will be hot whenever the ignition switch is in RUN, so the new circuit will be protected.

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