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Is it safe?? A arms that may be problematic... by kgoodyear
Started on: 05-25-2014 09:35 AM
Replies: 8 (242 views)
Last post by: FieroJimmy on 05-25-2014 02:44 PM
kgoodyear
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Report this Post05-25-2014 09:35 AM Click Here to See the Profile for kgoodyearClick Here to Email kgoodyearSend a Private Message to kgoodyearEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I ordered a set of A arms from a vendor in California and my mechanic opted to not use them. He is making his own. However, there may be others out there that may wish to rethink using this design




I'm not sure what kind of joint this is but I'll call it a ball joint. The ball is encased in a ring by retaining rings. Now, this works great for pushing or pulling or the raising and loweing of the A arm on that ball joint. However, this kind of joint was not designed for lateral movement and could compromise that joint under the power of a 300 hp engine. This made my mechanic nervous. He was also concerned about the quality of the weld and it was just the combination of things that could go wrong. I just seems a bit fragile for such an important part.

Is it safe?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzw1_2b-I7A


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kgoodyear
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Report this Post05-25-2014 09:41 AM Click Here to See the Profile for kgoodyearClick Here to Email kgoodyearSend a Private Message to kgoodyearEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

[This message has been edited by kgoodyear (edited 05-25-2014).]

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jetsnvettes2000
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Report this Post05-25-2014 09:42 AM Click Here to See the Profile for jetsnvettes2000Send a Private Message to jetsnvettes2000Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Heim joints are usually pretty tough, Look at any off road truck or aircraft linkage. the head of that one seems a bit thin tho but you can just replace that easy with a new one. it offers you a easy way to adjust the suspension too.

[This message has been edited by jetsnvettes2000 (edited 05-25-2014).]

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FieroJimmy
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Report this Post05-25-2014 10:30 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroJimmySend a Private Message to FieroJimmyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Heim joints are pretty much the standard for hardcore racing. Without cutting it apart or x-raying it can be hit or miss doing a visual inspection of a weld, but the look like good welds from here.

The body of that Heim looks sort of narrow, but depending on the exact metallurgy it is likely strong enough for the upper arm (I'm assuming it is for the upper, as it has no provisions for a sway bar).
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kgoodyear
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Report this Post05-25-2014 11:00 AM Click Here to See the Profile for kgoodyearClick Here to Email kgoodyearSend a Private Message to kgoodyearEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I really wish I knew more about the mechanics of this car. I'm just the money guy so I'm learning from my mechanic as we go along. I looked back in my pictures and saw no "upper" A arm on the fiero suspension or the Cadillac suspension we are using for the new suspension and braking. It goes right from the lower A arm up to a spring-over shock. My mechanic has opted to make his own and the design seems solid and innovative. We are involving a metallurgist and a tool & die maker. Maybe a picture will explain it better. Note, this is of course the original stamped A arm. We never could get the purchased A arm to work properly.


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The beauty of a solution lies in its simplicity

[This message has been edited by kgoodyear (edited 05-25-2014).]

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tesmith66
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Report this Post05-25-2014 11:52 AM Click Here to See the Profile for tesmith66Send a Private Message to tesmith66Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
How is the ball joint supposed to attach to that arm? Who makes it? Is it specifically for Fiero, or are you adapting the Caddy suspension? Ask the vendor for specs on those rod ends. Some of them can take a ridiculous amount of load. The skinny ones like those are for high angularity of movement, but I don't see why those are needed in a control arm type of application.

You can replace those with whatever rod end you desire. They are all standardized and available all over the place. Just search for spherical rod ends. There are a bazillion different types, strengths, materials and prices. You can even get rubber or silicone boots for harsh environments. It would be a good idea to educate yourself for your own safety.

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1986 SE Aero coupe.

3.4 DOHC swap is complete and running, now just have to finish the rest of the car...

[This message has been edited by tesmith66 (edited 05-25-2014).]

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kgoodyear
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Report this Post05-25-2014 12:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for kgoodyearClick Here to Email kgoodyearSend a Private Message to kgoodyearEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
They are made by West Coast Fiero. WCF and I no longer are speaking to each other so getting specs would be out of the question. I realize the threading enables one to change this joint but in the end, we still think at least in this case with the Caddy suspension, we are going to build our own and probably overbuild it.

Thanks for the feedback!
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Patrick
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Report this Post05-25-2014 01:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by kgoodyear:

They are made by West Coast Fiero.


Wow... pricey, especially for something that's now not even going to be used.

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FieroJimmy
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Report this Post05-25-2014 02:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroJimmySend a Private Message to FieroJimmyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ah, I had assumed they were for the front. I'm a bit surprised they felt the need for the high angularity Heims. A control arm shouldn't see much movement except for the axial rotation around the pivot bolts (with Heims there shouldn't be any).
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