Pennock's Fiero Forum
  General Fiero Chat
  6 speed shift cables, looking to make some

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Email This Page to Someone! | Printable Version


next newest topic | next oldest topic
6 speed shift cables, looking to make some by Rodney
Started on: 05-16-2014 09:16 AM
Replies: 16 (387 views)
Last post by: Bloozberry on 05-18-2014 09:39 PM
Rodney
Member
Posts: 4713
From: Caledonia, WI USA
Registered: Feb 2000


Feedback score: (4)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 268
Rate this member

Report this Post05-16-2014 09:16 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RodneyClick Here to visit Rodney's HomePageClick Here to Email RodneySend a Private Message to RodneyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I've certainly had plenty of requests thru the years. Some (many) use a Getrag select cable for the 6 speed shift cable They use the Getrag select cable for the select. I worked with Archie on his first 6 speed cables. I found the select cable (used as a shift cable) has a shorter throw and it marginally made it. The Getrag shift cable has a longer throw and would certainly be better. The min/max on the ends is also longer because of this. So I wonder if I just make some Getrag shift cables that are equal in length to the Getrag select cables would that work? Anyone doing a 6 speed conversion would need to make their brackets work with this new longer shift cable. Looking for any input.

------------------
Rodney Dickman

Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page:
All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com
Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories
7604 Treeview Drive
Caledonia, WI 53108
Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575

IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot
FIEROFLYER
Member
Posts: 3971
From:
Registered: Oct 2002


Feedback score:    (13)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 178
Rate this member

Report this Post05-16-2014 09:24 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FIEROFLYERSend a Private Message to FIEROFLYEREdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yes a shift cable with the over all length of a select cable but the shift cable specs for throw etc would work perfectly, same for the F23 5 speed. Dan

------------------


DARN Cars now open with
Over 30 years wiring experience between cars and trade as an avionics technician in both Canadian Air Force and civilian aviation.
Over 25 years experience building and modifying cars.
Over 10 years of full Fiero engine swaps and harnesses building and still going.

IP: Logged
fieroguru
Member
Posts: 11529
From: Champaign, IL
Registered: Aug 2003


Feedback score:    (45)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 257
Rate this member

Report this Post05-16-2014 12:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I think it would be a great idea to make a legitimate F40 shift cable! Many of us running the Getrag Select cable as an F40 shift cable have broken them, so something sturdier is certainly needed.

But that brings up another question... Do you make them for replacements for those people who have used Getrag Select Cables as F40 shift cables, or do you make them to eliminate the need to cut the shifter base to relocate the cable sleeve stop. One group would get you immediate orders for replacement and the other will save people from additional work doing the F40 swap.

Now if you look at making them for replacement purposes...

On my F40 swap, I am running 2 getrag select cables - so they are the exact same length, but they shouldn't really be the same length. One of the aspects I don't like about my shifter cable setup is the "Shift" cable is too long and doesn't flow nicely with the select cable. I have tried to mask this excessive length as much as I can, but would love to have a proper length shift cable.

Here is why the shifter cable can be shorter than it currently is:
Once the shifter is modified, the "shift" cable sleeve stops behind the "select" cable sleeve, so that would imply the Shift cable (sleeve and overall cable) could be shorter by the amount seen here:


Likewise, as the transmission side, the "Shift" cable is also further back from the select cable, so its length could be reduced even further.


I can get a more accurate dimension, but I would suggest making a new F40 shift cable that is 3-4" shorter (sleeve portion and overall length) than the current Getrag Select cable.

The other area of concern is the range of motion of the cable. The Getrag Select cable has a range of motion of 1 3/4" and the F40 needs 1 3/4" to work the shift arm at the transmission. For my swap, I removed about 3/8" from the support sleeve to get some additional travel.




The issue with this modification is that with the cable fully extended (engaging 1st, 3rd or 5th), the rigid portion of the cable is nearly to the end of the support sleeve and allows the cable to buckle under aggressive shifting. The buckling is what eventually breaks the cable. Here is my broken cable that shows the relative placement of the end of the rigid cable.


My suggestions for the range of motion changes is to give it 2" of travel at a minimum, extend the rigid portion of the cable at the transmission, and reduce the ID of the metal support sleeves so they can do a better job of supporting the rigid portion at maximum extension.

I haven’t started looking at the needed modifications to make a cable w/o needing to relocate the cable sleeve.

[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 05-16-2014).]

IP: Logged
Rodney
Member
Posts: 4713
From: Caledonia, WI USA
Registered: Feb 2000


Feedback score: (4)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 268
Rate this member

Report this Post05-16-2014 03:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RodneyClick Here to visit Rodney's HomePageClick Here to Email RodneySend a Private Message to RodneyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You are maybe missing the geometry. If I make them like a Getrag shift cable the shift cable bracket on the trans will actually be farther to the front. To get a longer throw the ends have to be longer on both ends. I would have to look at a Getrag shift cable. Possibly a shorter cable rod end can be used? Or make them like the Isuzu shift cable in a tube. The tube thingy might be OK.

This is why I am asking. I have to make a minimum order and I do not want to make them so they are not as good as they could be.

One would not need to modify the shifter if I make them like a Getrag shift cable. The end that goes on the shifter assembly in the console would be the same as a Getrag shift cable.

This will need to be looked at in depth before I have some made.

------------------
Rodney Dickman

Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page:
All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com
Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories
7604 Treeview Drive
Caledonia, WI 53108
Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575

IP: Logged
jscott1
Member
Posts: 21674
From: Houston, TX , USA
Registered: Dec 2001


Feedback score:    (15)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 415
Rate this member

Report this Post05-16-2014 05:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jscott1Send a Private Message to jscott1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
My vote would be for a getrag shift cable that is a bolt on replacement for the select cables that we are currently using.
IP: Logged
fieroguru
Member
Posts: 11529
From: Champaign, IL
Registered: Aug 2003


Feedback score:    (45)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 257
Rate this member

Report this Post05-16-2014 06:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Rodney:

You are maybe missing the geometry. If I make them like a Getrag shift cable the shift cable bracket on the trans will actually be farther to the front. To get a longer throw the ends have to be longer on both ends. I would have to look at a Getrag shift cable. Possibly a shorter cable rod end can be used? Or make them like the Isuzu shift cable in a tube. The tube thingy might be OK.

This is why I am asking. I have to make a minimum order and I do not want to make them so they are not as good as they could be.

One would not need to modify the shifter if I make them like a Getrag shift cable. The end that goes on the shifter assembly in the console would be the same as a Getrag shift cable.

This will need to be looked at in depth before I have some made.



I was saying that there are 2 ways to proceed forward with a new cable...

1: Make a stronger cable for everyone who currently is using a getrag select cable for the F40 shift cable - you could probably sell 20-40 in a short period of time because it would be plug & play for those of us currently running an F40.

2: Make a new cable design that would not require modifying the shifter (use of a longer getrag shift cable might work) . This would be great for people who plan to do a F40 swap in the future and can make the shifter bracket at the transmission match the new cable. However, this cable would not work for anyone currently running and F40 w/o modifying their shifter and reworking their shifter bracket.

Option #1 will sell more units quicker, but option #2 would save the buyer some fabrication work for future F40 installs.
IP: Logged
Rodney
Member
Posts: 4713
From: Caledonia, WI USA
Registered: Feb 2000


Feedback score: (4)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 268
Rate this member

Report this Post05-16-2014 06:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RodneyClick Here to visit Rodney's HomePageClick Here to Email RodneySend a Private Message to RodneyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Option 2 is preferred because the select cable travel length just marginally makes it. It has to be a longer throw like the Getrag shift cable is.

------------------
Rodney Dickman

Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page:
All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com
Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories
7604 Treeview Drive
Caledonia, WI 53108
Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575

IP: Logged
Rodney
Member
Posts: 4713
From: Caledonia, WI USA
Registered: Feb 2000


Feedback score: (4)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 268
Rate this member

Report this Post05-16-2014 06:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RodneyClick Here to visit Rodney's HomePageClick Here to Email RodneySend a Private Message to RodneyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Rodney

4713 posts
Member since Feb 2000
Those that have used the Getrag select cable as the shift cable would need to rework their shifter again back to OEM and probably redo the bracket on their trans to use this new cable. It is the best way to go.

------------------
Rodney Dickman

Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page:
All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com
Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories
7604 Treeview Drive
Caledonia, WI 53108
Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575

IP: Logged
Alex4mula
Member
Posts: 7395
From: Lake Worth, FL,US
Registered: Dec 1999


Feedback score:    (11)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 153
Rate this member

Report this Post05-16-2014 07:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Alex4mulaClick Here to Email Alex4mulaSend a Private Message to Alex4mulaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
#1
IP: Logged
fieroguru
Member
Posts: 11529
From: Champaign, IL
Registered: Aug 2003


Feedback score:    (45)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 257
Rate this member

Report this Post05-16-2014 07:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Rodney:

Option 2 is preferred because the select cable travel length just marginally makes it. It has to be a longer throw like the Getrag shift cable is.



Option #2 would be my preference.

For those who are not familiar with the issue. Here is a picture of a Getrag Select (top) and Getrag Shift (bottom) cables. I used some wire ties to line up the sleeve stops at both ends and then extended each cable the same length at the shifter end.


Shifter End:


Transmission End:


For a stronger cable based on the getrag select to be interchangeable with a getrag shift based cable, the shift cable end at the transmission needs to be the same, but they are 2 1/2".

Now if you already have an F40 swap using the getrag select cable and swap the shifter with an unmodified one, the shift cable end will "retract about 1 1/2" (or whatever distance you modified the shifter to) and you would still be left with the cable end being about 1" too long and needing to relocate the cable sleeve bracket at the transmission.

IP: Logged
hookdonspeed
Member
Posts: 7979
From: baltimore, md
Registered: May 2008


Feedback score:    (9)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 131
Rate this member

Report this Post05-16-2014 08:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hookdonspeedClick Here to visit hookdonspeed's HomePageClick Here to Email hookdonspeedSend a Private Message to hookdonspeedEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
what about the F23's!?

IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot
jscott1
Member
Posts: 21674
From: Houston, TX , USA
Registered: Dec 2001


Feedback score:    (15)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 415
Rate this member

Report this Post05-16-2014 08:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jscott1Send a Private Message to jscott1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If its option 2 then im clueless on how to install it so im out.
IP: Logged
jscott1
Member
Posts: 21674
From: Houston, TX , USA
Registered: Dec 2001


Feedback score:    (15)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 415
Rate this member

Report this Post05-16-2014 09:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jscott1Send a Private Message to jscott1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If its option 2 then im clueless on how to install it so im out.
IP: Logged
Jims88
Member
Posts: 267
From: Kalamazoo MI
Registered: Jul 2011


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post05-16-2014 10:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Jims88Click Here to Email Jims88Send a Private Message to Jims88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If I owned a manual Fiero and wanted to add more horse power or broke my existing transmission would I repace it with a F40, F23 or Gettrag?
Can the choice be boiled down to just one of these 3 transmission options? Or is there another manual transmission choice better suited for the future requirements of Fiero's?
What ever the correct choice is, it would be nice to have the correct shift cables for the job.
IP: Logged
hookdonspeed
Member
Posts: 7979
From: baltimore, md
Registered: May 2008


Feedback score:    (9)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 131
Rate this member

Report this Post05-16-2014 10:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hookdonspeedClick Here to visit hookdonspeed's HomePageClick Here to Email hookdonspeedSend a Private Message to hookdonspeedEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
F23 or f40, f23 is alot easier of an install, f40 has more gears and can support alittle more power.
IP: Logged
FIEROFLYER
Member
Posts: 3971
From:
Registered: Oct 2002


Feedback score:    (13)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 178
Rate this member

Report this Post05-18-2014 12:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FIEROFLYERSend a Private Message to FIEROFLYEREdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The F23 needs a longer shift cable then the F40 but one made to work with the F23 would still be usable on the F40 just have a little more wrap. My recommendation is to make the shift cable longer with the same throw etc that the shift cable is meant to have that will reach on the F23.
I know the F23 cable California push pull makes is a nice fit and have used it on a few F23 as well as two F40 swaps where the customer supplied the parts with no problems but would prefer to purchase from Rodney any day instead. Dan

------------------


DARN Cars now open with
Over 30 years wiring experience between cars and trade as an avionics technician in both Canadian Air Force and civilian aviation.
Over 25 years experience building and modifying cars.
Over 10 years of full Fiero engine swaps and harnesses building and still going.

IP: Logged
Bloozberry
Member
Posts: 7760
From:
Registered: Jan 2009


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 309
Rate this member

Report this Post05-18-2014 09:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BloozberrySend a Private Message to BloozberryEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by FIEROFLYER:
The F23 needs a longer shift cable then the F40 but one made to work with the F23 would still be usable on the F40 just have a little more wrap.


I agree... then those of us with 3" frame stretches might also be able to use the cables too.
IP: Logged

next newest topic | next oldest topic

All times are ET (US)

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:

Contact Us | Back To Main Page

Advertizing on PFF | Fiero Parts Vendors
PFF Merchandise | Fiero Gallery | Ogre's Cave
Real-Time Chat | Fiero Related Auctions on eBay



Copyright (c) 1999, C. Pennock