Well, I broke down and purchased a Holley side scoop from a forum member. I had been told by a friend that they increase one's fuel mileage and drop your engine revs. I also understand that when used properly, they can slice, dice, chop and shred and that when used with the original side intake screen, they can make perfect julianne fries. Additionally, they add 300+ horsepower to your engine. Ok, I admit that most of these claims are totally bogus and the product of my sense of humor. Unfortunately, after installation of the scoop, it stayed on only one day and i have to assume the screws backed out so I haven't been able to prove if the claims of a milage increase as well as the rpms dropping at speed are correct. My question is do the scoops actually help and should I go ahead and replace it from the Fiero store. I figure that there are people out here with lots of experience with this. If they don't work, I'll just reinstall the original side screen. Thanks for your thoughts.
Just a cool gimick if you like the look. You get the same benefits putting a Moroso sticker on the fender.... On the downside, if you drive in a hard rain, you scoop up water to soak your paper air filter with. If yours still has the baffles, you get somewhat less water in the filter.
I have one on my 87 duke 5 spd. I like the look over the factory grill. I used it all winter here in Indy. I haven't seen any problems with snow or rain getting to the filter. I check it every 3k miles with the oil change. Did it improve gas mileage? Before installing it I was getting 29-30 mpg (mostly highway, 65-75 mph) After a strange dip in winter mileage to 25-26 mpg (I'm guessing due to longer idling to warm up the car and a lot of stop and go traffic in the snow) I am consistently getting 30-32 mph. I have not seen a dip in RPM at any given speed. I do know that a flat port on a moving body, above a certain speed will cause a low pressure (vacuum) to occur. Whether this happens on a Fiero at 70 mph or not... I'd have to do the math.
IMO, if you have the 30 to spare go for it! Then tell us what your mileage does. :-)
Forum member AL87 installed it on his car and was able to beat a new Nissan GT-R while cruising down A-1-A in Miami. Definitely a huge performance gain!! I would add a performance chip, a hood scoop, trunk scoop, and roof scoop, just to make sure you are not suffering from Scopplessness Syndrome. It is also important to add one to the passenger side of the car, even for decoration, since it will even out the aerodynamic drag. If your car has a rear spoiler, then RAISE IT BY 6"!!!! This will keep the rear tires firmly planted on the ground as you enjoy the additional HP gained by the scoop. If you don't extend your wing stands, you may quite possibly lift off the ground at high speeds, and go into a low altitude orbit. It is dangerous to go airborne in a vehicle without avionics, so play it safe and add those spoiler extensions.
I have one on my 87 duke 5 spd. I like the look over the factory grill. I used it all winter here in Indy. I haven't seen any problems with snow or rain getting to the filter. I check it every 3k miles with the oil change. Did it improve gas mileage? Before installing it I was getting 29-30 mpg (mostly highway, 65-75 mph) After a strange dip in winter mileage to 25-26 mpg (I'm guessing due to longer idling to warm up the car and a lot of stop and go traffic in the snow) I am consistently getting 30-32 mph. I have not seen a dip in RPM at any given speed. I do know that a flat port on a moving body, above a certain speed will cause a low pressure (vacuum) to occur. Whether this happens on a Fiero at 70 mph or not... I'd have to do the math.
IMO, if you have the 30 to spare go for it! Then tell us what your mileage does. :-)
It's the intake port. There is going to be vacuum there whether or not you have the Holley scoop. Change in MPG for winter was probably also partially due to the switch to winter blend fuel in your area. If you're only getting 30 MPG mostly highway in an 87 Duke 5-speed, then you probably some other issues to deal with. You should be getting around 40 MPG mostly highway.
I forget who's car has it, but when they installed the Holley scoop the cut out the small holes near the back to let water and some air flow through. I'll see if I can find the picture.
Isn't it strange that after a bombing, everyone blames the bomber, his upbringing, his environment, his culture, his mental state but … after a shooting, the problem is the gun?
It's the intake port. There is going to be vacuum there whether or not you have the Holley scoop. Change in MPG for winter was probably also partially due to the switch to winter blend fuel in your area. If you're only getting 30 MPG mostly highway in an 87 Duke 5-speed, then you probably some other issues to deal with. You should be getting around 40 MPG mostly highway.
The Holley scoop has no positive impact on MPG.
There will be a counter vacuum away from the normal flow of air to the TB. The scoop will have some ram air effect but I don't know at what speed.
Do you get 40 mpg at 75-80 mph? I doubt it. 55 mph sure. Here in Indy though I'd get run over by little old ladies that would flip me off as they went by.
There will be a counter vacuum away from the normal flow of air to the TB. The scoop will have some ram air effect but I don't know at what speed.
Do you get 40 mpg at 75-80 mph? I doubt it. 55 mph sure. Here in Indy though I'd get run over by little old ladies that would flip me off as they went by.
Not in my 87 GT. But I got 28 MPG in an 87 GT at 75 MPH all highway, so yes, you should be getting a bit more than you are. Maybe not 40, but you should be getting at at least mid-high 30s, not 30-32. If I had the skinny tires on 14" wheels, I'm sure the 87 GT 5 speed would also get 30 MPG at 75 MPG all highway.
Oh, and not with the intake piping in the Fiero, there won't be any "ram air" happening. The throttle body is not directly behind the the filter, is not directly behind the opening port of the scoop. There are like 5 or 6 right (or very near to right) angles, in the system, not to mention the volume of the air filter canister and water separator (which is why you aren't going to see a wet filter), which are quite large compared to the pipe that connects the various pieces.
[This message has been edited by dobey (edited 05-07-2014).]
Which is amazing because the car was rated at 32 mpg highway when it was new... I've heard of 42 mpg fiero's but like the Pegasus on the hood I've never seen one in real life. ;-) I suppose if I never ran the engine over 3k rpm and accelerated slowly enough it would go higher. But where is the fun in that?
When I first started driving a Fiero in the mid 90s, I had an 85 econo with the 5-spd. I drove that car back and forth to Tulsa, OK from Norman as well as to work and back. That car invariably got 35 mpg at speeds of 70-75. It was tuned up twice a year and periodically had the fuel system cleaned out.
Which is amazing because the car was rated at 32 mpg highway when it was new... I've heard of 42 mpg fiero's but like the Pegasus on the hood I've never seen one in real life. ;-) I suppose if I never ran the engine over 3k rpm and accelerated slowly enough it would go higher. But where is the fun in that?
That 32 MPG you see on https://fueleconomy.gov/ is not what it was rated when new. It is an inaccurately adjusted estimate based on new (2008+) EPA procedures and requirements, calculated by applying some formula to the original estimated MPG numbers.
When I first started driving a Fiero in the mid 90s, I had an 85 econo with the 5-spd. I drove that car back and forth to Tulsa, OK from Norman as well as to work and back. That car invariably got 35 mpg at speeds of 70-75. It was tuned up twice a year and periodically had the fuel system cleaned out.
And that's the 85 which is a little less aerodynamic, and has a slightly less efficient engine than the 87/88.
If your car has a rear spoiler, then RAISE IT BY 6"!!!! This will keep the rear tires firmly planted on the ground as you enjoy the additional HP gained by the scoop. If you don't extend your wing stands, you may quite possibly lift off the ground at high speeds,
Don't take any shortcuts in this step!! The proper procedure is to add an ADDITIONAL factory wing on top of your first one! That'll get the barnstorming started!
My 87 GT five speed had an EPA rating of 28 mpg highway. When the car was new, prior to E-10 gas, I could get 34 mpg strictly driving at the US speed limit of 55 mph. It doesn't have any Holly Side scoop, which is a decorative feature bolt on. After 140,000 mile, the car still gets 29-32 mpg driving 60-70 mph, still no Holly Side scoop.
Forum member AL87 installed it on his car and was able to beat a new Nissan GT-R while cruising down A-1-A in Miami. Definitely a huge performance gain!! I would add a performance chip, a hood scoop, trunk scoop, and roof scoop, just to make sure you are not suffering from Scopplessness Syndrome. It is also important to add one to the passenger side of the car, even for decoration, since it will even out the aerodynamic drag. If your car has a rear spoiler, then RAISE IT BY 6"!!!! This will keep the rear tires firmly planted on the ground as you enjoy the additional HP gained by the scoop. If you don't extend your wing stands, you may quite possibly lift off the ground at high speeds, and go into a low altitude orbit. It is dangerous to go airborne in a vehicle without avionics, so play it safe and add those spoiler extensions.
Glad to help Scoopy Doo
LOL
You can tell if your getting water in the air filter by taking the filter out and looking for rust inside the canister. Ive seen very few that were not rusty.
I'm not adding additonal wings guys. I can't afford the FAA certification or the charges for low level flight plans. I have enough trouble talking the FAA out of citing the guys down here with the 350 SBC or turbo and supercharged engines.
Roger, the only valid reason I had for the side scoop is that I like the looks.
Which is amazing because the car was rated at 32 mpg highway when it was new... I've heard of 42 mpg fiero's but like the Pegasus on the hood I've never seen one in real life. ;-) I suppose if I never ran the engine over 3k rpm and accelerated slowly enough it would go higher. But where is the fun in that?
My buddy Matt got 41-42mpg consistently in his 87 Fiero with the Duke and Isuzu combo. He would just ease on the gas, shift low and slow, then drive 65mph on the highway. We would have cars back up on ramps to get on the highway he was going so slow. Many times we had cars fly up on us at 80mph just to have to cram their brakes. It honestly scared me more to ride with him in this car than his fast Fiero. At least the fast car corners, accelerates and stops on a dime...
Why did he do it? He got the car for free and had to travel from Cincinnati, OH to York, PA for work a lot. Since he got paid mileage, he drove it like a granny to see how much he could make on the free car before it died. The other thing that scared me was he pulled parts that failed (like brakes and shocks) off a parts car that he had.
Isn't it strange that after a bombing, everyone blames the bomber, his upbringing, his environment, his culture, his mental state but … after a shooting, the problem is the gun?
Originally posted by TriumphFetish: Sorry professor I didn't realize you had tenure. You have to be correct, you've been on the forum for 12+ years... yay for you.
No, but I don't go around judging people based on the color of their skin, like you seem to want to do. You're new, so I'm sure you have absolutely no idea how ratings actually work (or don't, to be more precise), but this is the Internet, and guess what? It's pretty easy to get people on the Internet riled up for no good reason.
I'm happy to be wrong, but unfortunately this isn't one of those times. The scoop does absolutely nothing beneficial to the performance or economy of the Fiero. It's purely an aesthetic item. Go ahead and put the plastic caliper covers that say "brembo" on your brakes too. I'm sure that'll make the car stop faster.
You can tell if your getting water in the air filter by taking the filter out and looking for rust inside the canister. Ive seen very few that were not rusty.
Pretty easy to get a rusty air filter canister, that's directly under an open vent, on a 27 year old car. Doesn't prove there is water sloshing around in the filter housing. It's pretty thin mild steel, with a pretty thin coat of paint new, so after 25-30 years of air rushing through it, PVC feedback, and salty air, erosion and age are going to take their toll.
It's the intake port. There is going to be vacuum there whether or not you have the Holley scoop. Change in MPG for winter was probably also partially due to the switch to winter blend fuel in your area. If you're only getting 30 MPG mostly highway in an 87 Duke 5-speed, then you probably some other issues to deal with. You should be getting around 40 MPG mostly highway.
The Holley scoop has no positive impact on MPG.
I could tell when they switched to winter blend with my 88 2.5. Mileage dropped like a rock.
So now you're bringing race into a discussion about a side scoop. The OP asked if it was worth it. I replied with my experience, and I get flamed for it. It's people like you that incite people on the internet. I hope you get ass cancer and die.
So now you're bringing race into a discussion about a side scoop. The OP asked if it was worth it. I replied with my experience, and I get flamed for it. It's people like you that incite people on the internet. I hope you get ass cancer and die.
No, you are getting mocked for being the new kid who made a stupid comment about the color of a ratings bar in a thread about a side scoop, because you disagreed with a statement that was in disagreement with your reply.
A) Learn to take a joke, which is clearly what cam-a-lot's reply was. It's not even your thread. B) Learn how to reply to something you disagree with in a way that isn't an ad hominem. ("Your argument is invalid because {color, people like you, etc…}" is an ad hominem.)
I was never irritated by Cam-a-lots reply, obviously it was a joke. I was irritated by YOUR replies. You come across as a condescending know it all. Just because I'm new to this forum doesn't mean I don't know my ass from a doughnut hole. Just because you post a lot to a forum doesn't make you knowledgeable. It probably means you like to hear the sound of your own voice. (typing, whatever)
Pretty easy to get a rusty air filter canister, that's directly under an open vent, on a 27 year old car. Doesn't prove there is water sloshing around in the filter housing. It's pretty thin mild steel, with a pretty thin coat of paint new, so after 25-30 years of air rushing through it, PVC feedback, and salty air, erosion and age are going to take their toll.
Is a sealed canister with the air filter. No real reason for it to rust inside, even if you sprayed it with a hose. Outside rust from the vent (rainwater, wash, etc) yes....or if it rusts clear thru...which ive also seen. Ive never had an air filter housing rust inside even on my 40 year old cars....and they rarely even had any paint inside them.
Pretty easy to get a rusty air filter canister, that's directly under an open vent, on a 27 year old car. Doesn't prove there is water sloshing around in the filter housing. It's pretty thin mild steel, with a pretty thin coat of paint new, so after 25-30 years of air rushing through it, PVC feedback, and salty air, erosion and age are going to take their toll.
Is a sealed canister with the air filter. No real reason for it to rust inside, even if you sprayed it with a hose. Outside rust from the vent (rainwater, wash, etc) yes....or if it rusts clear thru...which ive also seen. Ive never had an air filter housing rust inside even on my 40 year old cars....and they rarely even had any paint inside them. [/QUOTE]
I just look for water staining on the element when I blow out the dirt. In central Indiana everything gets rust on it eventually.
My filter element was soaked and had some rust on it when I pulled it out of my Formula this spring. The car is almost always outside and we had a lot of snow this winter. I think the insides of the canisters start to rust from the water leaking past the wing nut on the canister lid
Originally posted by rogergarrison: Is a sealed canister with the air filter. No real reason for it to rust inside, even if you sprayed it with a hose. Outside rust from the vent (rainwater, wash, etc) yes....or if it rusts clear thru...which ive also seen. Ive never had an air filter housing rust inside even on my 40 year old cars....and they rarely even had any paint inside them.
Water can accumulate on the top of the canister, and seep down through the hole for the threaded rod and nut, which is at least a plausible explanation for where I've seen the Fiero filter housing rust through on the inside. For the most part, I've seen the rust be on the three prongs in the center of the intake side of the filter housing, rather than on the outer ring on the exhaust side of the filter. The vast majority of any water droplets that do make their way into the intake tube below the filter, should be knocked out of the air stream in the water separator, and drain out the bottom of it. That is on a factory setup anyway.
Maybe a straight tube replacing the water separator would let more moisture into the filter housing, but I wouldn't necessarily call the pronged center of the filter canister being a bit rusted as a direct correlation to water getting into the filter housing from the side intake, especially on a 27 year old car where that portion probably already had some rust on it. Plausible, but not concrete, evidence for it, yes.
I was never irritated by Cam-a-lots reply, obviously it was a joke. I was irritated by YOUR replies. You come across as a condescending know it all. Just because I'm new to this forum doesn't mean I don't know my ass from a doughnut hole. Just because you post a lot to a forum doesn't make you knowledgeable. It probably means you like to hear the sound of your own voice. (typing, whatever)
I didn't say you didn't know anything. What is your problem? FFS kid.
I wasn't being condescending or anything. I'm sorry if my use of intellectual words offends you, but I'm not going to talk like a dumb hick just to appease you. And 6000 posts over 12.5 years is hardly "a lot."
Learn to take a simple rebuttal to your claims with a bit more dignity than you have. There's no need to resort to personal attacks and such nonsense as you have done.
I drove a beautiful black stock 1985 base coupe with an Isuzu 5 speed to Indianapolis from Minneapolis for the 30th Anniversary last summer for a friend who wanted to bring two cars. Our small caravan was traveling at around 70-75MPH, as that was the speed limit, and the car returned 39-41MPG with no air conditioning on, and 32-34MPG with the air on. This was based on multiple fills on the way too and returning from, pure highway, no scoop.
quote
Originally posted by TriumphFetish:
I was never irritated by Cam-a-lots reply, obviously it was a joke. I was irritated by YOUR replies. You come across as a condescending know it all. Just because I'm new to this forum doesn't mean I don't know my ass from a doughnut hole. Just because you post a lot to a forum doesn't make you knowledgeable. It probably means you like to hear the sound of your own voice. (typing, whatever)
You brought up the color of the ratings bar... Dobey IS a condescending know it all, but you are side tracking the thread with your need to be 'better' than him just as much as he's doing because he thinks you're fun to get riled up. Congrats on playing right into his hands.
Honestly, a lot of members on this forum with fairly red bars that have join dates from 99-01 used to be very courteous and helpful when I joined in 04, and for the most part they still are very helpful, but they've tired of having to tiptoe around what they mean to say so that certain people don't get offended... especially those who like to be offended for other people.
For reference, this is Dobey's first post in the thread:
quote
It's the intake port. There is going to be vacuum there whether or not you have the Holley scoop. Change in MPG for winter was probably also partially due to the switch to winter blend fuel in your area. If you're only getting 30 MPG mostly highway in an 87 Duke 5-speed, then you probably some other issues to deal with. You should be getting around 40 MPG mostly highway.
The Holley scoop has no positive impact on MPG.
Completely factual and non-argumentative. You accused him of being wrong based on 'will be, but I don't know' and immediately followed up by commenting on his rating bar to supplement your post. How should he react in this case? Egging someone on and then pointing fingers when they react is not a very friendly or honest way of dealing with people.
edit: made pics smaller meh... removed them again... no one cares.
[This message has been edited by carbon (edited 05-08-2014).]
So it would appear the consensus is that this scoop doesn't do any good which actually makes sense. I was wondering how moving more air through the throttle body would affect the fuel-air ratio. It would make sense that if you increase the airflow without having the computer adjust the fuel mixture that the engine would then be running lean, so the computer would have to adjust the fuel to bring the fuel-air mixture back to where it should be. That would have to decrease the mileage. Does this make sense?
Jim Holland
[This message has been edited by J-Holland (edited 05-08-2014).]
On the downside, if you drive in a hard rain, you scoop up water to soak your paper air filter with. If yours still has the baffles, you get somewhat less water in the filter. 
