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Where do I start? by Evarto
Started on: 10-24-2013 10:21 PM
Replies: 20 (528 views)
Last post by: lateFormula on 12-25-2013 12:22 AM
Evarto
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Report this Post10-24-2013 10:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for EvartoClick Here to Email EvartoSend a Private Message to EvartoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
This being my first post, I figured I'd shed some light on my newly re-found Fiero love. My mother had a black maybe 86' gt that I fell in love with when I was just a wee lad and I knew I'd have one of these fine little ponies in my stable once I saw hers roll into our driveway all those years ago. I'm 22 now and I've made my first steps into realizing my 6 year old self's dream.

Sitting in my storage unit aka my second garage is a 1984 Pontiac Fiero Se completely stock down to the rust, unfortunately.
(I live about an hour west of Chicago or 20mins north of Rockford if members would be willing to help me out with some welding)

I suppose my intentions for making this thread were to introduce myself to the community and ask a few questions.
I've done plenty of research around this forum and plenty of other Fiero sites, but I can't seem to find the answer to these:

1.Aluminum Fiero Cradles: How reliable are they to use and can they be bought anywhere or are they the sort of thing somebody has to make from scratch? I would obviously want one modeled after an 88's rear end and how much custom work would be needed for different engine mounts?

2.Battery relocation: Simple enough, but my question for this one pertains to the ground. Ground it by the battery or run the ground all the way like the positive? I've seen both done, but would like some feedback.

3.Big Brake Upgrades: I actually live by V8Archie's shop and have seen all his kits for sale but in the spirit of DIY I'd like to kinda figure out the best setup for my application. I know nothing about brake bias

4.The inevitable engine swap:I'm going for a weekend/autocross setup and am sort of leaning towards a 3800sc with a g6 gtp 6 speed which would get a beefy turbo added later, but I'd like to build all this up while being able to drive the car with the stock 2.5 for awhile(it's auto and I hate it)
I've read tons and tons and tons of literature on engine swaps and am still a bit undecided. I'd like to avoid v8's amd maybe v6's in favor of maybe a slant six or subaru boxer(is jdm taboo on Fieros?) With whatever engine, I'd like to get the cradle mentioned in #1 alongside and build that beast up so I can slap it in once it's all finished.

5.RUST!: My little Michigan born Italy inspired backwards car is full of it in the engine bay area. Some may have given up on her, but not me! It's actually only bad on the rails by the stock battery tray(no longer there thanks to rust) and the usual spots in the trunk. The body panels have all been taken off for the future welder to attack. Anything else I can do for them to make their lives easier and maybe save me some coin?

6.Damaged Panels:There were a few accidents when taking off the panels and I understand you can repair them with a special epoxy. Anybody happen to know exactly what kind/brand to use and what I can use to clean them/strip them?

That's about it for the time being. Thank you to those who read through all that and help in my quest to have a sweet little mopar car. I'll be on here alot now so feel free to pm me

Here's a few pics of the day I checked her out and got her home
and then. .
The Rust










[This message has been edited by Evarto (edited 10-24-2013).]

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johnyrottin
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Report this Post10-24-2013 11:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for johnyrottinClick Here to Email johnyrottinSend a Private Message to johnyrottinEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Evarto:
...completely stock down to the rust, unfortunately.


Contact BVMotorsports...he has a complete chassis he is about to have hauled away! Here is his thread. This way you can start with a rust free chassis. And, I believe it is free!!!

//www.fiero.nl/forum/F.../HTML/088664-43.html

[This message has been edited by johnyrottin (edited 10-25-2013).]

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Evarto
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Report this Post10-24-2013 11:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for EvartoClick Here to Email EvartoSend a Private Message to EvartoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by johnyrottin:


Contact BVMotorsports...he has a complete chassis he is about to have hauled away!



I really just need an aluminum 88' cradle if at all possible

Here's the pics the guy sent me when before I bought it:


[This message has been edited by Evarto (edited 10-24-2013).]

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pokeyfiero
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Report this Post10-25-2013 12:14 AM Click Here to See the Profile for pokeyfieroClick Here to visit pokeyfiero's HomePageClick Here to Email pokeyfieroSend a Private Message to pokeyfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hey kiddo.
I don't give a lot of advice here but I have been around. Several builds. A few wrecks. 24 or so Fiero's or more over the years.
I done 3.4s a northstar,3.4dohc and more stock v6s than I can count. I know how to waste money.

If you love Fieros get a different one. Start with a good chassis and not an 84.

I have a few good chassis I'd get you but with the distance it wouldn't prove economical.

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1984whitesc
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Report this Post10-25-2013 03:51 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 1984whitescClick Here to visit 1984whitesc's HomePageClick Here to Email 1984whitescSend a Private Message to 1984whitescEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I wouldn't do an engine swap on that one. Where the C500 connector is on the 84 isn't ideal for an engine swap. Its doable, but not advised.
Also a silver 84 is kind of rare. There are just over 9,000 ever made.

------------------

1984 White Fiero Sport Coupe (Juliet) in restoration
//www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/089093.html
1988 Red Fiero Standard Coupe (Bella) in restoration
1990 Black Buick Reatta (Noir)
2002 White Chevy Impala base(Haylie)

[This message has been edited by 1984whitesc (edited 10-28-2013).]

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Evarto
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Report this Post10-25-2013 07:28 AM Click Here to See the Profile for EvartoClick Here to Email EvartoSend a Private Message to EvartoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by pokeyfiero:

Hey kiddo.
I don't give a lot of advice here but I have been around. Several builds. A few wrecks. 24 or so Fiero's or more over the years.
I done 3.4s a northstar,3.4dohc and more stock v6s than I can count. I know how to waste money.

If you love Fieros get a different one. Start with a good chassis and not an 84.

I have a few good chassis I'd get you but with the distance it wouldn't prove economical.


I think the pics don't do the car justice. The rest is super clean for how rusty those few spots are and I aim at this taking awhile to restore. I'll take some more pics when I go pick the panels up from the unit to be cleaned.

I respect and acknowledge your wisdom, but there is simply no way I'm giving up on this Fiero. I realize it's not economical(at all) but I'm building this for me and can take as long as needed
Is the c500 connector issue one with the harness itself or the placement on the engine/trans?

[This message has been edited by Evarto (edited 10-25-2013).]

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johnyrottin
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Report this Post10-25-2013 09:26 AM Click Here to See the Profile for johnyrottinClick Here to Email johnyrottinSend a Private Message to johnyrottinEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I was thinking about this last night a bit. The other option that may be possible is to contact the GA Fiero club boys. I had given them an 84 SE that had a spotless chassis but needed basically everything else. They are going to finish that project using an 85 GT instead. That would be great to save that 84.
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Evarto
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Report this Post10-25-2013 10:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for EvartoClick Here to Email EvartoSend a Private Message to EvartoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post


I messaged their Facebook page inquiring about it.
Why are you guys so staunchly against welding the existing 84'?
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Gall757
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Report this Post10-25-2013 10:33 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Evarto:

Why are you guys so staunchly against welding the existing 84'?


Because they have done it and don't want to do it again!... But they underestimate your energy and enthusiasm. If you need some moral support, look up posts by RWDPLZ, who did more than what you are talking about with the welding.

As for an engine swap, the wiring of the '84 is more difficult than later years, but you can find examples of that too.

[This message has been edited by Gall757 (edited 10-25-2013).]

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ALJR
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Report this Post10-25-2013 11:35 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ALJRClick Here to Email ALJRSend a Private Message to ALJREdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Get a notebook and jot down everything you want to do to this car. Now try and estimate what it will cost you to do each of the mods. Now add 30-50% to those numbers. Is the total money investment worth it to you? If so, go for it! But being 22 and just starting out in life, your money may be better spent elswhere (or SAVED)...

I aalso agree with the others, scrap the 84 and go with something newer & rot-free to start. You should be able to find something w/ a blown motor for cheap!
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Evarto
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Report this Post10-25-2013 11:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for EvartoClick Here to Email EvartoSend a Private Message to EvartoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by ALJR:

Get a notebook and jot down everything you want to do to this car. Now try and estimate what it will cost you to do each of the mods. Now add 30-50% to those numbers. Is the total money investment worth it to you? If so, go for it! But being 22 and just starting out in life, your money may be better spent elswhere (or SAVED)...

I aalso agree with the others, scrap the 84 and go with something newer & rot-free to start. You should be able to find something w/ a blown motor for cheap!



I know it will be expensive but I'd planned on doing it over a few years. If it's too bad to even fix, how can I go about reselling it?
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DLCLK87GT
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Report this Post10-25-2013 02:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DLCLK87GTSend a Private Message to DLCLK87GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Evarto:
I know it will be expensive but I'd planned on doing it over a few years. If it's too bad to even fix, how can I go about reselling it?


I didn't see how much you paid for that, hopefully not much (sorry). My first Fiero was a learning lesson too as I didn't know about the evil rust problems these cars can have. As already mentioned, get another one that is rust free. I can only assume the frame rails up over the rear wheels are completly shot/gone by the looks of the trunk.that's the rear frame and the backbone of the car. You'll spend more time and money on it than its worth and more likely than not, get discouraged half way through and give up. Look for a different year too, nothing wrong with the 84 but it’s different than the other years and may present issues if you want to do an engine swap. As far as reselling it, unfortunately you’ll only get parts car money from that and that’s only a couple hundred at best. Sorry to rain on your parade.
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solotwo
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Report this Post10-25-2013 02:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for solotwoSend a Private Message to solotwoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Gall757:


Because they have done it and don't want to do it again!... But they underestimate your energy and enthusiasm. If you need some moral support, look up posts by RWDPLZ, who did more than what you are talking about with the welding.

As for an engine swap, the wiring of the '84 is more difficult than later years, but you can find examples of that too.



rwdplz did the same thing you want to do. He was in upper Michigan but now in metro Detroit area. As gall757 said check out his build
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pokeyfiero
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Report this Post10-25-2013 02:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pokeyfieroClick Here to visit pokeyfiero's HomePageClick Here to Email pokeyfieroSend a Private Message to pokeyfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hey !

Regardless of what anyone tells you do not lose your enthusiasm!


It is just there is this thing call throwing good money after bad.

Reminds me of a few girlfriends.

And later when you look back you wish you could tweak a few of your decisions and it would make a huge difference.

Nothing wrong with losing money on a car you love.
That reminds me of a few girlfriends too!

What you learn is extremely valuable no matter what.

Go get em. Wish I had some time to waste on a Fiero right now. So much fun!!
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solotwo
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Report this Post10-25-2013 03:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for solotwoSend a Private Message to solotwoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I would suggest that you take the rear wheels off so you can get at the wheel well liner screws and bolts and take the liners out and look UP to the rear frame to see how much rust you have. Then you can decide what you want to do and what you need to do first. Rust is fixable.
I drove my first Fiero in the winter. It was a Texas car but it had been in Pittsburgh for 6-10 years. I bought it in 2001 and drove it for the next 12 years in the winter. I attacked & treated what rust it had every summer and had it undercoated about 6 years after I bought it. Now with my current car that spent all its life in Indiana and Kentucky I am working on and treating the rust that it has. I hope you are not afraid to tackle repairs on the car. One thing about old cars, doesn't matter if it is a bmw or fiero, they all need repairs.

Good luck on your new adventure!
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Evarto
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Report this Post10-25-2013 06:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for EvartoClick Here to Email EvartoSend a Private Message to EvartoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I posted an ad on Craigslist(laugh all you want) looking for a welder and I'm having a guy look at it tomorrow hopefully.
AND
There's a coworker of mine who seems like he is willing to help me out and wants to look at her on Sunday.
So maybe this isn't my perfect engine swap candidate, but I'm sure going to fix it up regardless and possobly trade it one day for an 88' gt

I'll post some more pics tomorrow too of the rust with the panels off
The stock battery tray area is the worst of it, I promise
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Evarto
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Report this Post12-24-2013 03:28 AM Click Here to See the Profile for EvartoClick Here to Email EvartoSend a Private Message to EvartoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I think it's best to move on to a newer Fiero frame with no rust and in a manual. If anybody would be interested, here is a link to my ad: http://rockford.craigslist.org/cto/4171144014.html
At this point I have every part
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Report this Post12-24-2013 06:52 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ricjaymes2Click Here to Email ricjaymes2Send a Private Message to ricjaymes2Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Gunna be a fun project

------------------
Mark
87 Fiero SE
[img]https://scontent-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/539119_655647517827052_295478463_n.jpg[/img]

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Report this Post12-24-2013 01:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Welcome !
Its all about what you want to do, time and money.
I've seen alot worse rust.
The thing to consider is you can find nearly rust free ones if you give yourself time to look, they arent that much more expensive, even 88s. You will be starting out that much farther ahead.

My experience with cars is I have spent way too much on cars that I was saving. I' have overall spent alot less on cars that someone else either took good care of, or already did alot of work on. Saved time is more time spent enjoying it. or modding it further

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 12-24-2013).]

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ltlfrari
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Report this Post12-24-2013 11:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ltlfrariClick Here to visit ltlfrari's HomePageClick Here to Email ltlfrariSend a Private Message to ltlfrariEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
First off, welcome to the madness, it's addictive is all I can say!
As for the car, pretty much anything is fixable with enough money so the main question is simply how much are you prepared to spend.
I've fixed upper frame rail rust but I wouldn't touch a rotten lower frame rail but if you are having someone that actually knows what they are doing fix it (vs me who doesn't LOL) then it may be a different matter.
In the end you might be better off financially just getting a better chassis, pretty much everything else just moves over.

------------------
Anything I might say is probably worth what you paid for it, so treat it accordingly!

Dave

www.ltlfrari.com

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Report this Post12-25-2013 12:22 AM Click Here to See the Profile for lateFormulaSend a Private Message to lateFormulaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by ALJR:

Get a notebook and jot down everything you want to do to this car. Now try and estimate what it will cost you to do each of the mods. Now add 30-50% to those numbers. Is the total money investment worth it to you?


I have done a full restoration of a couple cars in my life, and there is one thing I learned early on...

Make a list of what you want to do. Break up that list into lesser individual projects. Get prices for the parts and do your homework on the labor involved. Figure out how much of that labor you can do yourself, and what will have to be farmed out to more knowledgeable service providers. Don't overlook the expense of tools you will need to purchase to do the labor yourself. For any project once you have calculated the financial cost of that project, multiply that number by 3. If you cannot afford that figure, don't start the project because the project will stall at some point (when you run out of money) and you might be left with an unfinished project car sitting in your driveway or garage for several years.
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