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Should I go F23? From a 3800sc auto by IanT720
Started on: 08-12-2013 03:55 AM
Replies: 9 (489 views)
Last post by: nosrac on 08-13-2013 03:34 PM
IanT720
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Report this Post08-12-2013 03:55 AM Click Here to See the Profile for IanT720Click Here to Email IanT720Send a Private Message to IanT720Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hey guys I have an 86 SE with a 3800sc and 4t65-HD. Due to rust I'm swapping the drivetrain and brakes into my 87 GT I have... I plan on doing a turbo swap and cam swap amoung other things. But I can't get the idea of a manual swap out of my head! I would have to convert the GT to a manual. I just hate the 2.blank gears I have now, it makes it feel so slow! I recently aquired a 2M6 4 speed and it's a blast to drive! I don't have much funds but I do the work myself, so is the F23 as great as it seems? I do want it but obviously if it's going to be crazy expensive I can't do it. Btw I have FieroX mounts, and Phonedawgs wiring... Opinions welcome! Thanks

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86 Fiero GTX project now tearing up the street, My build thread! 3800sc, interior, wheels, suspension and more! //www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/089483.html

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Steel
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Report this Post08-12-2013 04:24 AM Click Here to See the Profile for SteelSend a Private Message to SteelEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'd suggest building your auto up to handle the power.

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qwikgta
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Report this Post08-12-2013 08:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for qwikgtaClick Here to Email qwikgtaSend a Private Message to qwikgtaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
or go with this 94 Getrag.

//www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum4/HTML/066767.html

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LEEEZARD
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Report this Post08-12-2013 09:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for LEEEZARDClick Here to Email LEEEZARDSend a Private Message to LEEEZARDEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have a nice f23 for sale the fy1 gear code that everyone is looking for.
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IanT720
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Report this Post08-12-2013 11:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for IanT720Click Here to Email IanT720Send a Private Message to IanT720Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by LEEEZARD:

I have a nice f23 for sale the fy1 gear code that everyone is looking for.


PM sent, I guess you guys have anymore pros and cons?
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CowsPatoot
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Report this Post08-13-2013 12:59 AM Click Here to See the Profile for CowsPatootClick Here to visit CowsPatoot's HomePageSend a Private Message to CowsPatootEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I won't try to tell you whether to stay auto or swap to manual...that is a decision only you can make. Personally, I wouldn't have done the auto to begin with...and if I bought an auto, a manual swap would have been budgeted along with buying the car. But....here are my pros and cons of the manual swaps mentioned.

The 94 Getrag that quickgta posted...It is a well known and well documented swap. All parts are readily available to make it a simple bolt in...but future repairs (rebuild kits and such) are getting harder to come by.

The F23 that LEEEZARD posted...potentially stronger than the Getrag (I am not aware of anyone breaking one yet)...but the swap will require some more engineering. Will require custom mounts, custom shifting mechanism, proper cables (figure out which ones work with the rest of your engineering)...and the clutch/flywheel might not be as "standard" as the Getrag (I haven't done the swap myself, but I keep hearing about peoples' searches for one that works).

Similarities:
Gearing is pretty close between the two....close enough that it probably isn't a factor. Both setups use a hydraulic throw-out bearing. Both are stronger than the Getrag that came in the Fiero. Both can be broken with proper abuse. Both of the specific ones mentioned have LSDs. Both use stock Fiero manual axles.

I have driven Fiero Getrags with stock motors, and an F23 (with LSD) with a 380 rwhp SBC. I don't drag race...I run twisty mountain roads. I do think the F23 is a bit smoother in shifting...but the Getrag is good enough that it doesn't justify the added work. At the end of the day....I would go with the Getrag for the ease of installation. If I break it....then it would swap to the F23 rather than attempting to find another one. If the stock (or RD poly) mounts wouldn't work for some reason, then I would just skip to the F23.

Just my opinion...and it is worth exactly what you paid for it.
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Rare87GT
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Report this Post08-13-2013 09:36 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Rare87GTClick Here to Email Rare87GTSend a Private Message to Rare87GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ian,
What is the basic point of the car and what are you trying to achieve with the motor? If you enjoy a fun car to drive and aren't going to drag race it much then a manual would be okay I would guess. Here's the thing, everyone says yeah I just want the sports car feel, etc. And think autos are slow and boring. My car is a fully built auto and if I had a manual I would have been more pissed it blew a clutch or even when I miss a gear than anything else. The moral of the story if you want a decently fast street car and aren't going to launch it at stop lights or take it to the track and be disappointed in a slower than normal pass, go with the manual and enjoy it. If you want a consistent track and street car and not having to worry about blowing a clutch, etc go with a manual. It's the owner's choice. If they made a bullet proof manual and it was the right gear ratios, I would love a manual, they just don't.

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[This message has been edited by Rare87GT (edited 08-13-2013).]

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IanT720
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Report this Post08-13-2013 11:34 AM Click Here to See the Profile for IanT720Click Here to Email IanT720Send a Private Message to IanT720Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I originally went with the auto because of easiness of the swap, it can handle power well, and overdrive. I always wanted a stick but never had the chance to drive one, now my new Fiero has the 2.8 and 4 speed and I love it! I'm addicted to it. Like I said the gears in the 4t65 are way to high. I swear my new Fiero actually feels faster than my 3800sc. I've been reading up on the F23 swaps and I'm feeling a little discouraged... So much contrasting info and problems... I'm just kicking things around. And as for racing, I plan on beating on it on the street. Not really drag racing on tracks. But if I have to "baby" it, I don't want it

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86 Fiero GTX project now tearing up the street, My build thread! 3800sc, interior, wheels, suspension and more! //www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/089483.html

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fieroguru
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Report this Post08-13-2013 12:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The 4T65 will give you quicker/more consistant ETs and better highway fuel economy, but the manual will post higher whp and higher mph in the quarter.

I still prefer a manual for a fun daily driven car. but the F40 is my prefered transmission, largely for the fuel efficiency benefits.
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nosrac
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Report this Post08-13-2013 03:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for nosracSend a Private Message to nosracEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by IanT720:

Like I said the gears in the 4t65 are way to high. I swear my new Fiero actually feels faster than my 3800sc.



Use your funds to get a tuner and SC performance parts. With a tuner you can program the gears however you like.

You can program in really short gears and can make them even shorter by changing to the 3.69 gear ratio.

There is NO way in hell that a 2.8 + 4 speed manual should feel faster than a properly running stock 3800SC much less a...

Modded 3800 with with a Cam, Headers, Gen V, IC and a performance tune ...... forgetaboutit.

Don't get me wrong a manual 3800 is nice and I personally would do the F23 with the upgraded gears ONLY if the car was already a manual.
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