I haven't driven a Fiero since I sold my last one in 2004. I really love some of the things you guys are doing with Fieros these days and I remember my '88 Quad4 Coupe being a blast to drive.
I would like to hear about the driving experience of your Fiero vs. other sports cars you've driven. Corvette, Ferrari, Lambo, Viper, Lotus, BRZ, Miata, S2000, M3, etc. "Fun to Drive" is the most important factor when I buy a car. I'm excited to hear everyone's idea of what cars are more or less fun than a stock or modified Fiero and why.
Contributing. My daily driver is a 6 speed RX8. It's faster, more capable, better handling, and more practical.
But.... it's sort of boring, actually. I don't get that stupid grin when I drive it, like I did with my Fiero. There's an x factor, a strange charm that only that little 2 seater has and nothing else I've driven comes close. A motorcycle almost comes close.
edit: my Fiero was an automatic 85 GT
[This message has been edited by skuzzbomer (edited 07-15-2013).]
"Fun to Drive" is the most important factor when I buy a car.
Same here. Well here is my list:
Comparing the following with my 87 GT, which I had a 100% rebuilt suspension on along with rear coilovers/ 1" cut front springs. Mostly stock otherwise.
2011 Corvette C6 Auto in showroom condition- Felt very quick and nimble, I'd say the experience was the most enjoyable out of any other car I've driven after the Fiero and my friend's Jetta. As its typical with new cars, you just don't feel the road as much as you do in the Fiero.
2011 Camaro SS Auto in showroom condition- Felt like a boat, terrible all around. Did not feel fast, was heavy feeling in every aspect and fairly lifeless.
1995 Pontiac Trans Am M6, bolts ons/ tune/ rear suspension/ 275f 315r tires/ 3.73 gears- My Trans Am retains a similar type of feel to the Fiero, you feel connected to the road and the car gives you lots of feedback. Handling with my setup is surprisingly decent, I dare say that it approaches that of the Fiero. It feels a solid amount faster with gobs more torque, and gets just slightly worse mileage (20/32 Fiero, 18/29 Tran Am). The COG however is considerably higher, the Fiero feels much more nimble and less heavy.
1997 MK3 Jetta 2.0 M5, rebuilt suspension/ brakes/ slammed on coilovers- While not a sports car by any stretch, this is the most nimble car I've ever driven. The weight is very similar to the Fiero but it feels "light on its feet". It rides smoother despite being 2" off the ground, accelerated a tiny bit slower, but corners like its on rails. Gearing is fairly low, giving the car somewhat of a performance feel despite being slow.
[This message has been edited by nitroheadz28 (edited 07-15-2013).]
Being an Automotive Engineer I've driven quite a few of a variety of performance cars in my time. I have to say my 88 GT is unique in that it puts a smile on my face every time I take it out for a run. It also gets more attention from people than I would have ever imagined. You posted a very difficult question to answer, as individual perception will vary greatly among Fiero Owners based on a huge number of factors. Is my Fiero the ideal ticket, hell no, but it sure does more than I ever expected it to do.
[This message has been edited by California Kid (edited 07-15-2013).]
get that stupid grin when I drive it, like I did with my Fiero. There's an x factor, a strange charm that only that little 2 seater has
Same here! Just something about the little car that make you want to grin. Only thing close is that I got to drive a friends Mini (one of the old original ones). Had a 'grin' on that one but believe it was more because the steering wheel was on the wrong side.
Dad's old Nova's, Chevelle's, Olds, and Camaros were all just straight line power. I'd say the (stock 88GT) Fiero is best described as nimble.
What I enjoy the most is that you can slant the steering wheel so much that it's perpendicular to the road. No other car I've driven has this option - all the steering wheels seem to point to the sky once you get used to the lowest available Fiero position.
What I enjoy the most is that you can slant the steering wheel so much that it's perpendicular to the road. No other car I've driven has this option - all the steering wheels seem to point to the sky once you get used to the lowest available Fiero position.
When I test drove and bought my Trans Am, I was surprised that the seating position was very much like the Fiero. The steering wheel is small compared to "normal" cars, and closer to your chest than usual which I like.
Another point I forgot to make is that the combination of the seating position and interior layout makes the Fiero the most comfortable small car I've ever owned/ been in. The seats in combination with the center console hug you the perfect amount without being a hindrance when you enter/ exit the car. The seats themselves are very comfortable, the ergonomics are excellent in my opinion- except for the light post tall shift lever.
Originally posted by nitroheadz28: The steering wheel is small compared to "normal" cars, and closer to your chest than usual which I like.
I installed an even smaller steering wheel (13") in all three of my Fieros along with a short shifter. Those 2 things made the Fiero a step higher in the 'fun to drive' department.
I also really liked the seating position in the Fiero. Fit me like a glove.
[This message has been edited by fierojp (edited 07-15-2013).]
The only thing that I have ever had or driven that comes close is my 2006 scion tc 5 speed. It has just enough creeks and groans to be fun at all. Yes it does do better on gas and better power but I still love the lil thing. Man I can't wait to get that v8 in it... that should remedy the power issue but make the margin greater in the gas area. 1986 4 cyl 5 speed value leader and proud of it!!
That sounds like a fun job. Please tell us about a couple of the best cars you've driven and how they compare to the Fiero!
I'll tell you about one, just because it will surprise a lot of people. While working for VW/Audi I got to drive a VW Rabbit at Phoenix International Raceway (PIR - VW had their Proving Ground on the Property), this was no ordinary Rabbit, but an Engineering Development Vehicle. It was completely street legal, however it had a lowered race suspension, wide sticky street tires, significant weight reduction (no under body PVC treatment, no sound proofing, light seats etc., and was powered by a Turbo-Intercooled 16 valve 4 banger (custom high horse built). It would pull very low 10's in the quarter mile, and was an absolute terror on the road course, or oval. This version was never produced for Production, as VW was afraid that too many people just wouldn't know how to handle it. Even today, I would not put my car up against that VW on a Road Coarse.
1986 Corvette Z51 (stock) - I bought this car between my first and second Fieros (1995). It was a fun car. At that time, it got more attention than the Fiero...but the Fiero was still pretty common back then. It got a lot more respect than the Fiero. I loved the targa. Although I enjoyed the car, after I totaled it I went straight back to a Fiero...and haven't been without one since. The C4s do still hold a place in my heart...but I can't imagine buying another one rather than a Fiero. The Vette was more forgiving in it's handling...it was certainly easier to drive fast....but in my opinion the Fiero can be pushed further with the right finesse.
2002 Camaro SS (lot of bolt-ons to boost power) - Friend of mine owns this one. Certainly faster in a straight line than the Fiero...but felt numb when driving it. I remember a trip on I-475 in Flint when I was cruising at about 130 mph and had to change lanes while going around a slight curve. Back end came out on me...and while I still sliding sideways the first words out of my mouth were "my Fiero would never have done that". Never liked the rear suspension design of the Gen 3 and 4 F-bodies. Nice cars...they have their place....but that place isn't in my garage.
2005 Lotus Elise (Stock engine with suspension mods) - I have spent a fair amount of time with this car (belongs to a friend). I can't describe the attention this car gets...especially in the Krypton Green color (AKA Highlighter Yellow). These are fun cars in every respect. I have driven it....I have autocrossed it. It is a blast on a mountain road. Fast enough without being stupid...perfect balance in the twisties...perfect feel of the road. It is deceptively fast....it rides so flat that you don't realize how fast you are going....acceleration, corners, or braking, it is just flat. You just don't realize how hard you are pushing this car because it handles anything you throw at it in stride. Absolute joy to drive...if you are small enough to be comfortable in it. I am heavy....5'10, 275 lbs. I am also claustrophobic. I don't do well in this car for an extended period of time with the top on. The car is not wide enough for me to be comfortable in the passenger seat....I am constantly fighting to stay out of the driver's way for shifting. But....when I was driving it alone with the top off...it was wonderful. This is about the only car I could be convinced to give up my Fiero for. AC system sucks...might as well go without. Also, to be fair here...Chris always had race spec tires on this car. He recently swapped to normal street tires, and I was shocked at how much lower it's limits seemed to be. NO storage space here....Chris' significant other looked at someone loading a Fiero trunk at Run For The Hills and said "Wow...look at all the trunk space they have."
2008? Honda S2000 (stock) - Owner of the Lotus bought one of these so that he could have a more practical daily driver. I was not impressed with this car...but I was comparing it to the Lotus. It did not feel fast to me. Much more comfortable than the Lotus...but still felt cramped compared to the Fiero. Other than being a newer car than the Fiero....I really didn't feel it had anything special to offer me. I felt it was boring and un-inspiring. This car also had the black interior...I think a lighter colored interior wouldn't set off my claustrophobia so much...and wouldn't be as hot in the sun.
I have driven many cars...but don't feel you can give a fair comparison from just a test drive. The Fiero is a hobby, not transportation to me. I enjoy the fact that with a Fiero, I am limited only by my imagination. The Lotus IS a better performance car...but they are all the same. For every weakness, there is a standard way of fixing it...so modifications come down to how far you have taken it rather than how creative you have been. So far....there is no other car that puts a smile on my face quite like the Fiero.
Part of it depends on where you are driving and what has been done to your Fiero.
I have a 5-speed 87 GT with Held motorsports suspension front and back (coilovers), 3800 s/c that is a absolute joy to drive.
A 2005 Vette with Z51 suspension
206 Miini Cooper.
My favorite place to test my cars is "The Tail Of The Dragon" up in NC / TN.
Of those the Mini Cooper was the best. The short wheel base was great.
Then my 87 GT, and last but not least - the 'Vette.
For running around town though, I have a 87 4 banger coupe convertible that is great to drive and the responses to it "What is that" People love it, because it is different and looks great - even without a proper paint job.
Frank
[This message has been edited by Dragon (edited 07-16-2013).]
Years ago I had a '77 Vette. The Fiero was much smoother. At the time both were automatics, & the Vette was shared between the wife & myself, as it was really her dream car. The inability to customize the Vette was a real downer. The one plus for the Vette is that the T-Tops had both solid covers & glass.
Originally posted by California Kid: While working for VW/Audi I got to drive a VW Rabbit at Phoenix International Raceway (PIR - VW had their Proving Ground on the Property), this was no ordinary Rabbit, but an Engineering Development Vehicle.
I knew you had a good job! That sounds like a sick car. It must have been well under 2,000 pounds. If it was street legal, that would be tough to beat in the fun factor.
Originally posted by Dragon: I have a 5-speed 87 GT with Held motorsports suspension front and back (coilovers), 3800 s/c that is a absolute joy to drive.
I'm surprised you would favor the Mini over your 87 GT the way you have it set up. I test drove a Mini S on the street and on a short track session. It was definitely a fun, zippy little car. I can only imagine what your GT feels like... It has been so long since I've driven a Fiero.
I would love to get to the Tail of the Dragon some day. I'm way out West though.
Back when I still had my first Fiero ('88 Formula - awesome), I read this article in Road & Track. It was the first US test of the not-legal-in-the-US Lotus Elise. I saw that car as a modern day Fiero. There were so many similarities. Soon thereafter I bought an '88 Coupe and added a built Quad4 engine, coilovers, lower geared 5-spd, etc. The S1 Elise was the inspiration and I felt like my Quad4 Fiero was VERY VERY fun to drive. Mission accomplished. I sold that car in 2004 but wish I could drive it again just to experience it.
I also had an '86 GT with an Archie installed ZZ4 350 with TPI. (It was the Fiero in his original install video). That car was fast in a straight line, but overall, the Quad4 Coupe was much more fun. Maybe if the V8 car had suspension, brakes, etc, it would have been a different story, but I think the V8 added too much weight in the back.
I'm currently a Lotus owner and will write more on that experience when I have time.
[This message has been edited by fierojp (edited 07-16-2013).]
Originally posted by fierojp: I'm surprised you would favor the Mini over your 87 GT the way you have it set up. I test drove a Mini S on the street and on a short track session. It was definitely a fun, zippy little car. I can only imagine what your GT feels like... It has been so long since I've driven a Fiero.
I would love to get to the Tail of the Dragon some day. I'm way out West though.
The Mini handles way better than any Fiero. I used to have a 2004 Mini Cooper (base coupe, totally stock). The Fiero is pretty big and heavy in comparison. The Mini handles like a kart. Even though the Mini has less power, it definitely felt faster than my Fiero (87 GT 2.8, 5 speed, lowered on ST springs, full poly all around). It would launch good, and the torque curve was excellent. Plus, I could park it pretty much anywhere without any problems.
My del Sol is also very fun to drive. It's also lighter than the Fiero, and faster once the engine gets spinning, but doesn't launch as hard, due to the low torque. But it's another short lived 2-seater, so have wanted one for a while, and finally found one I could be happy with, recently.
They are both fun to drive. And so is my Avalanche. Even though it's a big ass truck that weighs more than both my Fiero and the del Sol, it's still faster than both. It handles great, and is still mostly stock. It'll be getting some upgrades as well, including the drop spindles and rear springs, and sway bars I have sitting here, waiting to get installed. Should handle better and get a little MPG boost with those installed. But it's fun in a different way than the sports cars are. Sometimes, it's 95 degrees and crazy humid out, and the cooled leather seats, steering wheel controls, and auto-adjusting air shocks in the rear of the truck, are just what I need.
About 20 years ago I had a Porsche 924s for awhile (until I had to start buying parts) and I would say the fun factor is about the same. The Porsche was faster and cornered like it was on rails but I think the Fiero wins because of that stupid grin I get when people about run off the road looking at it. I think a better comparison for me is my old 86 rx7 with the rotary engine. It would rev harder than any car I have ever owned and had such a unique sound, like a small jet. All fun cars to drive.
Our '97 Miata is much easier to drive hard than a Fiero is. Probably a lot easier to get a ticket with, as well. It's easily as fast as a stock 2.8, and arguably as fast as a 3.4. It feels much more connected to the road. The 5 speed shifts like butter. (To be fair, the Miata continues to win "best driver's car" competitions on a regular basis, and has since it was introduced.) On the down side, it's also much more cramped, and physically much smaller and lighter. 2400 lbs vs 2800.
My Fiero has a 4.9 and a Getrag. It's also lowered a bit. It's loud, obnoxious, and stupidly quick, and as far as "suspension modded" Fieros go, I believe it's more refined than most. (It doesn't crash and rattle over bumps like some other Fieros I've driven.) Unlike the Miata, the Fiero actually feels like it's going faster than the speedo indicates. Probably because it sits so low.
But comparing it to a Miata is like comparing a Skilsaw to an X-Acto knife. They're just two different animals.
------------------ Raydar 88 Formula IMSA Fastback. 4.9, NVG T550 Praise the Lowered!
A while back I drove my uncles 2002 Mustang GT with headers, exhaust intake and a few other mods, this car was also a stick. In comparison to my 88 GT in its stock form. The Mustang was completely unexciting. It felt huge and heavy and in my opinion my Cadillac Catera outperforms it on curvy roads by a long shot. The clutch on the Mustang was extremely heavy and the shifter was also to heavy. The sound of the Mustangs V8 was great and that is the only thing I really liked about the car.
In terms of acceleration the Mustang wins against a stock v6 Fiero but in all honestly not by much. It takes a lot of power to push a fully loaded 3700LB Ford, and even the bolt ons that my uncle had seemed to only make it sound better. The Mustang was basically one of the most numb feeling vehicles I have driven recently. It is a shame; it is technically a performance car and should connect the driver to the road. I feel the majority of new cars that I have driven have completely sucked the connection to the road away through all the computer assisted fly by wire and power everything. Even though stock Fiero GT's may not be fast they offer enough grunt to keep one entertained.
There is nothing like the feeling sitting 4 inches off the road with your legs strait out in front of you. The sound of the V6 rumbling away behind your back. The way the fuel tank sits in between the seats offering up a nifty armrest for shifting gears and the feedback from the road through the unassisted rack and pinion.
My Fiero is now a moderately modded 3800 SC II 4T65EHD car and is much faster than the Mustang both in a strait line and in the curves.
I'm surprised you would favor the Mini over your 87 GT the way you have it set up. I test drove a Mini S on the street and on a short track session. It was definitely a fun, zippy little car. I can only imagine what your GT feels like... It has been so long since I've driven a Fiero.
I would love to get to the Tail of the Dragon some day. I'm way out West though.
The Mini Cooper has a shorter wheel base which when rolling through 11 miles with 318 tight switchback turns handles better. I never thought I would find something I liked better than my "Emerald Dragon"
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Frank Martin 87 GT 3800 s/c - lowered with Held Motorsports suspension - Suicide Doors by Archie Custom Paint Fun To Drive Daily Driver
Originally posted by TXOPIE: Both the Mini and the Fiero offer the same FUN sensation as when we were kids driving one of these:
A different sensation, but definitely the same feeling of FUN that we had as kids! I still feel like a kid when driving around sports cars!
And karts aren't limited to kids... Here's my 48hp TonyKart shifter kart, now sold. I miss that just as much as I miss my Fiero. This thread has me thinking about buying stuff now...
To stay on topic, nothing comes close to the connectedness to the road/track as a shifter kart. The kart is an extension of your body. I really wish it could be my daily driver. (look up kartvader on youtube for some karting on the street). The performance is insane - the cornering and the acceleration. Just brutal. When you step into a road car after being out in a shifter kart, it feels like you aren't moving.
But for a road car, the Fiero does very well. You sit low to the ground and have a direct connection to the front tires without power steering.
[This message has been edited by fierojp (edited 07-17-2013).]
The Mini Cooper has a shorter wheel base which when rolling through 11 miles with 318 tight switchback turns handles better.
I know the Fiero is 93.4" and I think the Mini is 97.1". Either way, they are both fun cars. The mini railed the corners on the tight track I was on. I'd love to drive all of them at the Tail of the Dragon! I generally prefer RWD, but that Mini is one of the only FWD cars I would consider owning.
