Got into an accident last night on the way out to the Raceway to watch some bump to pass and demolition derby with independence day fireworks. Found this semi pothole left over from some construction. Not sure the exact turn of events but a witness said they heard a Whoosh and then I slid off into the curb. Not sure if my ballpoint broke first, dropping the control arm down into the wheel and he heard the softbscraping of control arm on wheel. And then crashing into curb caused the blow out. Or pothole caused blowout and crashing into curb broke the ball joint and took the chunk out of the wheel. Either way, everyone suggests I should go after the city for damages. Here are some pics of the aftermath.

We had our engineer visit the location and verify all construction changes are within government allowed regulations to not require traffic cones or temporary sealant. However, whle at the site he did document a chunk of concrete missing from the curb that appears to be very recent and aligns with the damage that would be expected from the exact wheel damage you have documented in your photo log. Please bring your vehicle to DMV for a safety inspection to verify you have been performing proper maintenance on your vehicle, consider your registration currently suspended. Also. Bring with you a cashiers check for 2000 to cover the estimated damages to the city owned curb.

- city manager of Spokane street and power

quote Originally posted by alcazar88: We had our engineer visit the location and verify all construction changes are within government allowed regulations to not require traffic cones or temporary sealant. However, whle at the site he did document a chunk of concrete missing from the curb that appears to be very recent and aligns with the damage that would be expected from the exact wheel damage you have documented in your photo log. Please bring your vehicle to DMV for a safety inspection to verify you have been performing proper maintenance on your vehicle, consider your registration currently suspended. Also. Bring with you a cashiers check for 2000 to cover the estimated damages to the city owned curb. - city manager of Spokane street and power

Should be easy enough. Just had alignment done in April. Included with that they preform a free inspection of said equipment along with lights, fluids, etc. Along with receipts that ball joints and tie rods are a bit over a year old and say bar links are about 4. Wheels and tires were both bought brand new 2 years ago and have only about 6k miles on them.

Just a quick side note. My son chopped up one of his wheels much worse that that, I thought I was outta luck when I found out his $450 per wheel was discontinued but it turned out for the better, a local mobile wheel repair guy came right to the house removed, repaired and replaced it in 45 minutes for $100 bucks and you couldn't pick out the wheel if you tried.

You may have more luck than I think based on all of that being done, i just don't normally expect to get much from a government entity.

Hopefully the wheel can be fixed.

quote Originally posted by alcazar88: You may have more luck than I think based on all of that being done, i just don't normally expect to get much from a government entity. Hopefully the wheel can be fixed.

This happened to me one time in my fiero.

City repair crew had gone to lunch and left pot hole they were working on uncovered or coned. City paid to fix my wheel and tire, as long as i signed a paper saying i would not sue.

Shocked the crap out of me.

Doesn't hurt to ask. I will say i was very detailed with my description of what happened, what day and time, and pictures of the damage. I am sure they checked things out and they sounded pretty accurate so they probably figured it was cheaper and easier to fix the wheel rather than risk someone claiming injury and sue somewhere down the line.

[This message has been edited by exoticse (edited 07-04-2013).]

I feel for you. I lost two American Racing mags on the right side of my Javelin due to a monster pothole. The city of Worcester, Ma. said they would replace them if the pothole had been reported to them at least 2 weeks prior to my incident. Of course, their records showed that it hadn't been reported at all.

But looking at your pictures of the roadway, I honestly can't see anything that would have broken a ball joint. The pictures don't add up. Several show small round patches, some show a long cut with the pavement being ramped upward at the end of the cut, then 2 pictures contradict the location. One is near the corner because you can see the curb start to turn, while others are far back from the intersection. The pics with the two round patches don't match up to the pictures with the long cut. Were the pictures taken of the area and potholes where you had the incident? Were the pictured repairs done after your incident or before?

quote Originally posted by fierofool: I feel for you. I lost two American Racing mags on the right side of my Javelin due to a monster pothole. The city of Worcester, Ma. said they would replace them if the pothole had been reported to them at least 2 weeks prior to my incident. Of course, their records showed that it hadn't been reported at all. But looking at your pictures of the roadway, I honestly can't see anything that would have broken a ball joint. The pictures don't add up. Several show small round patches, some show a long cut with the pavement being ramped upward at the end of the cut, then 2 pictures contradict the location. One is near the corner because you can see the curb start to turn, while others are far back from the intersection. The pics with the two round patches don't match up to the pictures with the long cut. Were the pictures taken of the area and potholes where you had the incident? Were the pictured repairs done after your incident or before?

All pictures were taken at the time of the incident. These repairs are lead than a month old. Hit one which caused a blow out. And sent me into the curb which then took a chunk from the front right wheel, curb rashed the right rear and rocker panel and broke the ball joint which sent the tire up into the wheel well and took out the wheel well liner.

[This message has been edited by Shill (edited 07-05-2013).]

Update : received a call from the city when I reported the unsafe road conditions. He started that they are aware of the road conditions and it is due to them testing experimental repairs. They plan on fixing it soon and to get in contact with the claims department.

Update: Received a call from the state, apologising, while it is a state road, the city hired the construction company this time so it needs to be forwarded back to the city again. I'm not the only one that had damages from this bad construction work, and he has already been contacted that it feels like others are getting the run around. He said that makes it easier, because he is also working with them and in contact with the proper people. I am not just another name on a list. He said I should receive a call from the city or construction company within the next week. If not save his number and call him back so he can dive deeper.

Here's a brief rundown of everything that has happened so far. Not sure where to proceed with this. To me looks like the city goofed big time by contractign an uninsured company to do major roadway repairs.

I originally filed a claim with the state as it was a state road, they instantly denied the claim. While it was a state road, they do not maintain it, and forwarded me on to the city. I filed with the city, they also denied it, they do not maintain it, the subcontract it. With the denial letter they included the company that was preforming construction and their insurance info. I submitted a claim with their insurance which was also denied as that company did not begin construction until after the event. With their denial letter, they informed me of the proper company to contact. I then got back in touch with the city for the insurance info on that company. According to public records that were given to me on the company, they did in fact preform the construction related to my damages, however their recorded insurance policy had been cancelled (not expired) for over 3 months prior to preforming the repairs.

So effectively.... the city hired an uninsured contractor? That's bad juju. Not sure how it works with city/state involvement, but when my company is hired to do contract work, it is a requirement to have valid insurance. But, if we didn't and something happened, it would go back on whomever contracted us without proper inspection. Wouldn't imagine that's how this works with the city involved however.

[This message has been edited by EvilSqueezles (edited 08-23-2013).]

So, finally in contact with the company, here are the emails which have gone back and forth between us.

I have only attached a few of the pictures because of size. If you would like more, please let me know. I also attached the quote of repairs from Les Schwab, and the letter I wrote when the damages occurred.

Pics are located above obviously

Here is the letter that was written:

quote On July 3, 2013, at approximately 18:30, I was driving northbound on Pines Rd. in Spokane Valley, Wa. Between Broadway and Mission, approximately 1500N Pines, there was what appeared to be recently finished construction work with no signage indicating road hazards. As I was approaching Mission Ave. I hit a chunk of road where the repairs had not been finished properly. This caused a blowout of my right front tire, which unexpectedly sent my vehicle directing towards the curb. Impact of the curb caused a large chunk of the wheel and tire to be broken off, along with a flat tire and major cosmetic damages to the right rear wheel. Also during this impact, my vehicle suffered from a broken ball joint and damaged control arm. I was able to safely remove my vehicle from the roadway and into the nearby gas station parking lot. The employees here had watched the whole incident as they were outside taking a break when it had happened. We determined after seeing the broken parts that the car required a tow and it was the fault of the road construction crew. I called insurance and used my emergency roadside assistance to get the vehicle home to figure out how to proceed. I have been to two shops to requests quotes, the first was Firestone which could not obtain all the parts required to properly fix all damages. This is due to the fact that the wheels were damaged beyond repair and must be replaced, unfortunately these particular wheels have been discontinued so they did not give me a complete quote for repairs as I would have to select a complete new set of 4 wheels and tires. I went to les schwab afterwards and received the same story. They assisted me with selecting a similar styling wheel, their quote totals just under $2700 for a complete repair, this does not include the cost to tow the vehicle to their shop for repairs. Because of this, I am requesting payment for damages equaling $3000, to include towing and any other misc charges that may arise. I have also attached a copy of the quote from Les schwab for documentation.

Here was their response.

quote Mr. Hill, Aztech Electric has reviewed the submitted information and came to the following conclusions: #1. Your statement indicates that there was no signage indicating road hazards. Response: The Pines Rd ITS project was an active job site that maintained road way construction signs throughout the duration of the project. Signage is required by the contracting agency and was in place. #2. The pictures you attached show three different locations. Response: None of the pictures show a hazard that, under normal construction site driving conditions with properly maintained and road worthy tires would cause a blow out and loss of control of a vehicle. As this was an active road project, the public should anticipate possible road hazards. #3. Review of the Les Schwab’s quote indicates that the car is a 1984 Pontiac Fiero. Response: I am sympathetic to your personal connection of the car but need to point out that the average fair market value of this car is less than half of the amount claimed. #4. Towing of the car was required because of damages caused by loss of control of a vehicle in a posted construction zone. Response: Loss of control leads me to believe that you must have been traveling at a higher rate of speed than what was posted. That particular tire path was experiencing at least 10,000 tire crossings a day without incident. #5. You claim that the exact match of wheel and tire are no longer available. Response: This leads me to believe that the tires and wheels are antiquated models (very old). We see no justification to replace old antiquated tires and wheels with 4 new high priced wheels and tires. In conclusion, Aztech feels that the damages caused to your car were caused by lack of attention to construction signs in a construction zone, excessive speed in a construction zone, inability to maintain control at low speed , worn out and possibly improperly maintained tires. The claim far exceeds fair market value of the car. We do not feel that total new replacements are justified as the original equipment was not in new condition to begin with. I am sympathetic to your claim and would like to offer $300 assistance to apply to your insurance deductible or purchase of 1 comparable used tire and wheel. If this is not acceptable, I would be willing to meet on site with you, the city of Spokane Valley police department and any witnesses you have to discuss the circumstances that led up to the loss of control in a construction zone. This offer is subject to acceptance within 3 days. After 3 days, Aztech will withdraw this offer and consider the claim closed. Thank you, Scott Lee Project Manager/Estimator

and my response to that

quote I appreciate you getting back to me. Unfortunately, $300.00 will not be able to fully repair the damages. I would understand if your company is unable to provide the total amount of $3000.00 to settle the claim. If that is the case, I would like to request information for an insurance provider that you would prefer to handle this. Please get back to me within the 3 day limit that you had originally stated.

and this was their latest update

quote Spencer, No exchange of insurance info at this time. Please choose a time to meet on site. Next Tuesday is good for me. I will arrange for the City of Spokane inspector and the police. Please bring the tire and wheel in question. Thank you, Scott Lee Project Manager/Estimator

As I already know the status of their insurance from the city, I was just formally inquiring to be nice.

I am probably just going to file with their insurance, as I interpret this as their denial to meet my request. I will still wait until the 3 day period for them to meet either of the options I presented to them.

Or i could agree to meet them on site, I could bring the wheel and tire, provided they 1. pay for a certified and insured mechanic to come out and remove the wheel/tire. 2. they pay for a tow truck for the vehicle to be present at the scene. While I find the second option to provide great entertainment value to me, probably not the wisest thing to do. Having all the evidence brought to them, to some place where they may or may not have actually requested law enforcement may be a bad idea, especially considering they were contracted by the city to begin with.

However, I do not know if I should respond to their latest email regarding this.

[This message has been edited by Shill (edited 08-29-2013).]

Wow, what a mess. His responses to your message - calling your car basically a cheap jalopy, calling the wheels "antiquated", saying there ARE signs (regardless if he's ever actually been there or not) - would've sent me through the roof. Damages of that magnitude don't call for simple ASSumptions based off of a few pictures and a description.

Definitely interested in seeing how this comes out.

quote Originally posted by Doober: Wow, what a mess. His responses to your message - calling your car basically a cheap jalopy, calling the wheels "antiquated", saying there ARE signs (regardless if he's ever actually been there or not) - would've sent me through the roof. Damages of that magnitude don't call for simple ASSumptions based off of a few pictures and a description. Definitely interested in seeing how this comes out.

Exactly how I felt, his email was rather insulting. a quick craigslist search in my local area turned up with 0 cars under $3000 that could potentially be an acceptable replacement. in fact closest one in my area was priced at $8800
http://spokane.craigslist.o...ery=fiero&catAbb=sss

As far as wheels and tires, they are only 2 years old, and have less than 5,000 miles on them. I'd like to see his reaction when I show him the date codes on the tires.

[This message has been edited by Shill (edited 08-29-2013).]

This will turn into an expensive lesson.

You know I sympathize with you, but here are a few points you might want to consider:

1) Your car IS worth about half of the repair at market value. It really is.
2) Money spent on attorneys is money you won't get.
3) You have low profile tires. You have poly bushings. Either of these on their own increase shock load to the suspension, both are REALLY hard on it.
4) the edge of the cut in pavement that grabbed the lip of your tire was about 1.5" high. You just hit it really at the wrong spot.

Stuff happens. It happens to me, it happens to you, it happens. Jack up your car, take the rim off, and take it with you with your pictures and meet the guy. Dorking around telling him to hire a mechanic to come pull it off for you tells him you just want to bleed money out of him. Take some responsibility, if even in your own mind, as you WERE driving the car. I hit a pothole on the 405 about 13 years ago in my '86. 16" rims, poly, lowering springs. I BROKE the control arm at 60 MPH and ruined a tire and didn't leave my lane.

You know I like you man, but go meet him, tell him you'll take cost of parts, and do it yourself. It's been months since you got to drive your car, right? Ask him, with RESPECT, to write you a check for about $1000 to cover suspension parts, front tires, and a used rim (you REALLY can't find one used on ebay?) and be driving it in a week.

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Build thread for my 88 + 3800NA swap

"That particular tire path was experiencing at least 10,000 tire crossings a day without incident."

(Well, 1 incident.)

Their response sounds like basic avoidance, similar to when someone files for unemployment, they usually get one default rejection letter to deter them.
It also sounds like they have been jerked around before by people tring to make money off them, or replace parts to upgrade their car on their dime. If you present yourself well so they can see this is not the case that part may change.
The part about them not having insurance could be pretty serious, that is probably illegal for them.
I do admire your tenacity in this, they expect most people to give up after the 3 times they said "its not our prob, you need to call these guys."

quote Originally posted by aaronkoch: This will turn into an expensive lesson. You know I sympathize with you, but here are a few points you might want to consider: 1) Your car IS worth about half of the repair at market value. It really is.

Then why can't I find a car similar to mine for $1500?

quote 2) Money spent on attorneys is money you won't get. 3) You have low profile tires. You have poly bushings. Either of these on their own increase shock load to the suspension, both are REALLY hard on it.

Low profile tires? They are 45 series, which of course have less sidewall than stock, I wouldn't consider them low profile. In my opinion, low profile is 35 series or smaller.

quote 4) the edge of the cut in pavement that grabbed the lip of your tire was about 1.5" high. You just hit it really at the wrong spot. Stuff happens. It happens to me, it happens to you, it happens. Jack up your car, take the rim off, and take it with you with your pictures and meet the guy. Dorking around telling him to hire a mechanic to come pull it off for you tells him you just want to bleed money out of him.

Unfortunately, my mind changed on this after the insults and the ingorance that was portrayed in the responses i received from him. I am still only requesting the amount required for a shop to repair this, just incase that is the path I have to take. Though if he wants to dick around and waste both of our times without fully reviewign all of the evidence that he has available to him, then yes, I will charge him for my time that he is wasting.

quote Take some responsibility, if even in your own mind, as you WERE driving the car. I hit a pothole on the 405 about 13 years ago in my '86. 16" rims, poly, lowering springs. I BROKE the control arm at 60 MPH and ruined a tire and didn't leave my lane. You know I like you man, but go meet him, tell him you'll take cost of parts, and do it yourself. It's been months since you got to drive your car, right? Ask him, with RESPECT, to write you a check for about $1000 to cover suspension parts, front tires, and a used rim (you REALLY can't find one used on ebay?) and be driving it in a week.

This would cost alot more than just $1000 to fix, even if I were to do it myself. Both left wheels and tires are damaged, both are directional, and should not be replaced individually. this WILL require a complete set of 4 tires to fix. the right rear wheel suffered from curb rash. to return to the state that it was before the incident would probably cost $100 for the wheel. Finding a used wheel may be possible, but with no damage to it as mine were would be another task, and how long would it take for me to find said wheel? I suspect i'd have to fidn a damaged one and send it to the machine shop also. i'd suspect $200+ for this. The balljoints are only a few years old, I may get away with replacing just the damaged ball joint, but that would send me up the wall, worrying about the odd wear on them. I already have a replacement control arm. this cost me I think $70

Realistically, I could probably get away with repairs for less than $3000. But if someone else is responsible, Why? same reason I didn't file with my insurance company. It will cost me a whole lot more in the long run. both financially and mentally.

Ahem..

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Build thread for my 88 + 3800NA swap

quote Originally posted by aaronkoch: Ahem..

I would be willing accept that instead of the $3000 stated, provided I did not have to pay for shipping, licensing, etc. and i could keep the current car to transfer over all upgrades.