Pennock's Fiero Forum
  General Fiero Chat
  Electric Power Steering??

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Email This Page to Someone! | Printable Version


next newest topic | next oldest topic
Electric Power Steering?? by Marine1981
Started on: 02-04-2013 10:49 AM
Replies: 22 (1541 views)
Last post by: fierosound on 01-15-2014 09:16 AM
Marine1981
Member
Posts: 1364
From: Austin, Texas, USA
Registered: Jan 2011


Feedback score:    (6)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post02-04-2013 10:49 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Marine1981Click Here to visit Marine1981's HomePageSend a Private Message to Marine1981Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I saw this the other day and thought it was interesting. Looks like they have units designed for the C1 and C2 corvette. Does anyone have the specs for those to compare to a Fiero column?

Here is the link to the website.

http://americanpowertrain.c...-power-steering.html

Ben
IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot
thesameguy
Member
Posts: 1470
From: California
Registered: Dec 2012


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post02-04-2013 02:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for thesameguyClick Here to Email thesameguySend a Private Message to thesameguyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I don't know what I'm talking about, but I gotta believe at $2500, you could probably build something yourself. Whether you use a fully electric unit or a electrohydraulic unit I suppose would be up to you. If there's a traditional hydraulic unit that fits in the Fiero (doesn't WCF sell one?) you could run it with the Bosch EHPS pump from a Mini - that way you don't have to plumb power steering lines from engine bay to rack.

S2000s and RX8s also have self contained electric steering racks, but I don't remember if they are front or rear steer. Both are essentially traditional steering racks with electric drives powering the rack as opposed to solutions like Ford and Toyota are running right now with the power assist in the steering column... that seems decidedly harder to retrofit on a car.

Just some thoughts.
IP: Logged
dobey
Member
Posts: 11572
From:
Registered: Sep 2001


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 371
User Banned

Report this Post02-04-2013 04:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
//www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/115957.html

I have an S2K rack sitting in the garage, but it's a bit too long to use. However, I might be able to cut a custom rack that fits the Fiero, and uses the S2K motor and electronics, if I can ever find the time.
IP: Logged
josef644
Member
Posts: 6939
From: Dickinson, Texas USA
Registered: Nov 2006


Feedback score:    (71)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 103
Rate this member

Report this Post02-04-2013 04:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for josef644Click Here to Email josef644Send a Private Message to josef644Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
My 2005 Malibu has electric power steering. I wonder????????
IP: Logged
thesameguy
Member
Posts: 1470
From: California
Registered: Dec 2012


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post02-04-2013 05:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for thesameguyClick Here to Email thesameguySend a Private Message to thesameguyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The Malibu (and a bunch of other cars) use Delphi's E-Steer system. I think that Malibu was the first in North America to use it, but the system is several years older. E-Steer is interesting because it's designed - essentially - to be retrofitted to cars that have traditional steering designs. It sits between a conventional column and rack. I think mechanically speaking something like E-Steer would be the ideal way to assist a car like the Fiero but the problem in using it is two-fold - one, E-Steer requires input from other systems in order to know how much assist to offer, and two not replacing the entire rack would leave you with a terrible ratio - just wheels that are easier to turn. In my mind, the point of moving to power assist would be to get a bigger steering ratio without making the car impossible to turn.

Personally I think the best answer is probably EHPS. I don't think truly electric power steering systems have very good feel (although the RX8 is up there) and making all the electronics work safely could be a really stumbling block. Putting in a conventional hydraulic rack and then running it with an electric pump means a lot less black box stuff. EHPS is how the MR2 got its job done, FWIW. The Mini pump is pretty small, and being in a cool, clean environment would probably help it last longer than it does in the Mini's engine bay. It is capable of variable assist, but could also be wired at a fixed assist level to keep things simple. EHPS means power steering fluid and some loss of efficiency, but it's IMHO more reliable, cheaper, and offers better (or, maybe more traditional) feel.
IP: Logged
thesameguy
Member
Posts: 1470
From: California
Registered: Dec 2012


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post02-04-2013 05:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for thesameguyClick Here to Email thesameguySend a Private Message to thesameguyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

thesameguy

1470 posts
Member since Dec 2012
 
quote
Originally posted by dobey:

//www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/115957.html

I have an S2K rack sitting in the garage, but it's a bit too long to use. However, I might be able to cut a custom rack that fits the Fiero, and uses the S2K motor and electronics, if I can ever find the time.


A bit too long, like width-wise? Are the tie rods removable? Would it be possible to just fabricate some shorter tie rods to fix the issue? I think both the S2K and Fiero are front steer, yeah?
IP: Logged
dobey
Member
Posts: 11572
From:
Registered: Sep 2001


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 371
User Banned

Report this Post02-04-2013 06:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by thesameguy:


A bit too long, like width-wise? Are the tie rods removable? Would it be possible to just fabricate some shorter tie rods to fix the issue? I think both the S2K and Fiero are front steer, yeah?


Too long, without tie-rods.

As for electric power steering feeling, the power steering in my Cruze is all electronic, and feels just fine. If you didn't already know it wasn't hydraulic, you wouldn't be able to tell from just driving it, aside from the lack of the annoying whine the classic hydraulic pumps make when you turn the wheel all the way to one side. The Cruze power steering motor is part of the rack though, and not the column. I haven't really driven any cars with the electric assist on the column, so it might "feel" a bit different, due to the power being applied to the column, rather than the rack.

I really like the S2K rack's design, so I will be using it in my car, even if I have to machine an entirely new rack, and housing to fit the S2K motor to. The S2K rack also has a variable ratio, which is nice.
IP: Logged
thesameguy
Member
Posts: 1470
From: California
Registered: Dec 2012


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post02-04-2013 06:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for thesameguyClick Here to Email thesameguySend a Private Message to thesameguyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Wow, crazy that anything about the S2K would be too wide for anything. Really puts into perspective how small the Fiero is.

Every time I get back into my Solstice after driving the Fiero I reminded, though. Driving the Solstice is like driving a pickup truck in comparison. LOL!
IP: Logged
pontiackid86
Member
Posts: 19600
From: Kingwood Texas..... Yall
Registered: Sep 2008


Feedback score:    (12)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 342
Rate this member

Report this Post02-04-2013 07:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pontiackid86Click Here to Email pontiackid86Send a Private Message to pontiackid86Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
my 2013 Veloster has electric power steering as well.
IP: Logged
thesameguy
Member
Posts: 1470
From: California
Registered: Dec 2012


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post02-07-2013 01:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for thesameguyClick Here to Email thesameguySend a Private Message to thesameguyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Do you know where the assist is? In the rack versus in the steering shaft?

Not to thread hijack, but how do you like the car? I am seriously considering a Veloster Turbo, I just keep reading about how crashy the suspension is. I test drove an Elantra a while (since they're distantly related) and it wasn't the most refined ride. Maybe not enough to scare me away, though. Do you have a manual or an auto? Any problems so far?
IP: Logged
mcguiver3
Member
Posts: 742
From: Beacon Falls, CT, USA
Registered: Jan 2012


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post02-07-2013 01:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mcguiver3Send a Private Message to mcguiver3Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
EPS is not a new thing here.
I have a buddy installing a Camaro rack with an electric pump from a Nissan (I think that's where it came from)
in his 86 GT. He got the rack bracket from WCF and other stuff from E-Bay.
I will see if he can post some pics/info for you.
IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot
mcguiver3
Member
Posts: 742
From: Beacon Falls, CT, USA
Registered: Jan 2012


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post02-07-2013 01:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mcguiver3Send a Private Message to mcguiver3Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

mcguiver3

742 posts
Member since Jan 2012
Jay, are you out there for this guy?????

Mario
IP: Logged
Tony Kania
Member
Posts: 20794
From: The Inland Northwest
Registered: Dec 2008


Feedback score:    (7)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 305
User Banned

Report this Post02-07-2013 02:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Tony KaniaSend a Private Message to Tony KaniaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by josef644:

My 2005 Malibu has electric power steering. I wonder????????


Gosh, I just cannot remember, but Fieroking may have used that setup in Dogcreek's car?

The thread... //www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum3/HTML/000115.html
IP: Logged
dobey
Member
Posts: 11572
From:
Registered: Sep 2001


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 371
User Banned

Report this Post02-07-2013 02:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Tony Kania:
Gosh, I just cannot remember, but Fieroking may have used that setup in Dogcreek's car?

The thread... //www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum3/HTML/000115.html


I see the stock LS4 power steering pump in most of the engine pics, so I think they used that and a hydraulic (f-body?) rack, and ran the lines to the back of the car.
IP: Logged
dobey
Member
Posts: 11572
From:
Registered: Sep 2001


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 371
User Banned

Report this Post02-07-2013 02:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

dobey

11572 posts
Member since Sep 2001
 
quote
Originally posted by mcguiver3:

EPS is not a new thing here.
I have a buddy installing a Camaro rack with an electric pump from a Nissan (I think that's where it came from)
in his 86 GT. He got the rack bracket from WCF and other stuff from E-Bay.
I will see if he can post some pics/info for you.


That'd be Electro-Hydraulic (EHPS) instead of pure electric. Yeah, it's been done plenty of times.
IP: Logged
thesameguy
Member
Posts: 1470
From: California
Registered: Dec 2012


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post02-07-2013 03:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for thesameguyClick Here to Email thesameguySend a Private Message to thesameguyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Indeed. EHPS is pretty well sorted at this point (in a broad automotive sense), and not complex. EPS has a bit more going on. That's why I'd personally be inclined to go electrohydraulic... KISS.
IP: Logged
Tony Kania
Member
Posts: 20794
From: The Inland Northwest
Registered: Dec 2008


Feedback score:    (7)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 305
User Banned

Report this Post02-07-2013 04:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Tony KaniaSend a Private Message to Tony KaniaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by dobey:


I see the stock LS4 power steering pump in most of the engine pics, so I think they used that and a hydraulic (f-body?) rack, and ran the lines to the back of the car.


Oh, gosh, you are right. Sorry for the misinformation.
IP: Logged
ChuckLS1
Member
Posts: 554
From: Greensboro, NC
Registered: Jul 2004


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post01-14-2014 04:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ChuckLS1Send a Private Message to ChuckLS1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I just found this thread. I found out about t this system yesterday. I called and I was told it was $2000.00 shipped. Has anyone tried this out?

------------------
Chuck
88 Formula W/fastback
2000 Grand Prix GTP

IP: Logged
DKcustoms
Member
Posts: 1071
From: Central NY
Registered: Oct 2013


Feedback score:    (15)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post01-14-2014 04:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DKcustomsSend a Private Message to DKcustomsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have been thinking about doing this in my Fiero for a month or so now...

My daily driver, a 2012 Chevy Sonic, has electric power steering so I was considering looking into what it would take to get it in my car.
I don't know if the assist is in the shaft or the rack on the Sonics, but I am seriously considering it in the future.
IP: Logged
Macs86GT
Member
Posts: 2276
From: hagerstown Maryland
Registered: Apr 2008


Feedback score:    (6)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post01-14-2014 08:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Macs86GTSend a Private Message to Macs86GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Wcf has an electric set up on their website under power steering. http://www.westcoastfiero.c.../power_steering.html not sure how well it would work, but im looking into it as my current column is doing the typical sag.
IP: Logged
DKcustoms
Member
Posts: 1071
From: Central NY
Registered: Oct 2013


Feedback score:    (15)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post01-14-2014 09:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DKcustomsSend a Private Message to DKcustomsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Macs86GT:

Wcf has an electric set up on their website under power steering. http://www.westcoastfiero.c.../power_steering.html not sure how well it would work, but im looking into it as my current column is doing the typical sag.


The only problem with this kit, at least from my point of view, is that it is hydraulic.

If I were to install power steering it would be entirely electric.
IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot
Macs86GT
Member
Posts: 2276
From: hagerstown Maryland
Registered: Apr 2008


Feedback score:    (6)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post01-14-2014 10:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Macs86GTSend a Private Message to Macs86GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The one ob the bottom of the page is fully electric.
IP: Logged
fierosound
Member
Posts: 14637
From: Calgary, Canada
Registered: Nov 1999


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 281
Rate this member

Report this Post01-15-2014 09:16 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierosoundClick Here to visit fierosound's HomePageClick Here to Email fierosoundSend a Private Message to fierosoundEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Macs86GT:

Wcf has an electric set up on their website under power steering. http://www.westcoastfiero.c.../power_steering.html not sure how well it would work, but im looking into it as my current column is doing the typical sag.


Looks like they're using a similar EPS unit to the one we discussed here 2 years ago.
//www.fiero.nl/forum/A...130314-2-115957.html

EZ Electric has kits that fit an MG - so under the dash of a Fiero should be feasible too.
http://www.ezpowersteering.nl/car/7/34/MG.html

------------------
Calgary time/temp

3.4L Supercharged 87 GT Click me
Super Duty 4 Indy #163 Click me

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 01-15-2014).]

IP: Logged

next newest topic | next oldest topic

All times are ET (US)

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:

Contact Us | Back To Main Page

Advertizing on PFF | Fiero Parts Vendors
PFF Merchandise | Fiero Gallery | Ogre's Cave
Real-Time Chat | Fiero Related Auctions on eBay



Copyright (c) 1999, C. Pennock