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Gasoline engines -- the walking dead by formulaWA
Started on: 11-30-2012 10:35 PM
Replies: 98 (2192 views)
Last post by: dobey on 01-19-2014 10:22 PM
engine man
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Report this Post12-07-2013 07:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for engine manClick Here to Email engine manSend a Private Message to engine manEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have a ? why dont the make like a really high voltage induction motor like 1500 volts to run a car then they wouldnt need so many amps from what i understand and amps are what drain a battery right or am i all wrong ?
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fst4rsc
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Report this Post12-08-2013 12:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fst4rscClick Here to Email fst4rscSend a Private Message to fst4rscEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Interesting question. My thoughts (as an electrochemist) would be:

Having so many cells in series could have an issue that if one cell fails, the entire pack fails. The entire pack is dependent on the weakest cell. If that cell depleats or runs down before the others, the entire pack will lose voltage.

There might be an issue of resistance. Resistance adds directly in series. Reciprocal resistance adds in parallel. There might be a heating or efficency issue.

There might be an issue on recharging a high resistance high voltage cell. You may not be able to generate enough voltage to charge on regenerative braking?
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dobey
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Report this Post12-08-2013 10:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by engine man:

I have a ? why dont the make like a really high voltage induction motor like 1500 volts to run a car then they wouldnt need so many amps from what i understand and amps are what drain a battery right or am i all wrong ?


You realize electric/hybrid cars operate the electric motor drivelines on 900+ volt systems, right? Generally anyway. They aren't 12 volt electric motors powering a 2500 lb car.
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dobey
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Report this Post12-08-2013 10:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by formulaWA:
Now if this thing actually worked

E-cat sales

The future of oil would be in doubt in many different applications.

However I am deeply skeptical.


Total BS. Anyone who says they are making energy without any fuel, has no idea what they are talking about, nor where that energy comes from. Calling it "cold fusion" doesn't make it fusion, or cold. Energy must come from somewhere, whether it's converting matter into energy by burning a fuel, or by converting one type of energy to another, such as windmills do, the energy must come from somewhere.

http://www.bloomenergy.com/ makes something that actually works, though, and could be used. So far, they have only built large installations, and not scaled down to consumer level yet. It's very interesting, and does require natural gas.

Neither one of these would be particularly useful for direct usage in vehicles. The energy generated from either system would need to be stored in batteries, ultra-capacitors, or by some other mechanism, and converted back to kinetic energy through electric motors, or some other means of propulsion.
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engine man
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Report this Post12-09-2013 12:00 AM Click Here to See the Profile for engine manClick Here to Email engine manSend a Private Message to engine manEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
i dint know the hybrids where running that much voltage but the 100 percent electric non hybrids dont run that high a voltage right
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Report this Post12-09-2013 03:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by engine man:

i dint know the hybrids where running that much voltage but the 100 percent electric non hybrids dont run that high a voltage right


Well, maybe not that high. But most all of them are at least 480 volts. Tripling that and dropping the amperage draw way down won't really change anything though. It won't increase storage (traversable distance) or power (Watts will be the same). Storable energy in a battery is directly related to the surface area of the electrode embedded in the gel/fluid/whatever. The same "draw" on the capacity of the batteries will occur.
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Report this Post12-09-2013 08:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pokeyfieroClick Here to visit pokeyfiero's HomePageClick Here to Email pokeyfieroSend a Private Message to pokeyfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by dobey:


Well, maybe not that high. But most all of them are at least 480 volts. Tripling that and dropping the amperage draw way down won't really change anything though. It won't increase storage (traversable distance) or power (Watts will be the same). Storable energy in a battery is directly related to the surface area of the electrode embedded in the gel/fluid/whatever. The same "draw" on the capacity of the batteries will occur.



I was undert he impression the 144 volts was top end of scale for the drive motors.
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engine man
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Report this Post12-10-2013 10:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for engine manClick Here to Email engine manSend a Private Message to engine manEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I think you are right it is 144 volts with a motor that has brushes but AC induction motors dont have brushes so they can use a much higher voltage

[This message has been edited by engine man (edited 12-10-2013).]

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formulaWA
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Report this Post12-27-2013 10:44 AM Click Here to See the Profile for formulaWASend a Private Message to formulaWAEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
According to this guy my gas engine death prediction is too long

http://autos.yahoo.com/news...-says-131113863.html
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carbon
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Report this Post12-27-2013 03:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for carbonSend a Private Message to carbonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by formulaWA:

According to this guy my gas engine death prediction is too long

http://autos.yahoo.com/news...-says-131113863.html


The comments on that article pretty much sum up the quality of the content...

 
quote
Comment by RichK
Just plain wrong. I guess we need to ignore the materials problems that widespread use of electrical vehicles would cause. There would be a shortage of cobalt used in batteries. Cobalt is largely mined in the Congo with questionable environmental impact and would be in short supply. Not to mention the demand for lithium. How about neodymium that is needed to build the magnets in high output electric motors. That would definitely become hard to come by. It is almost exclusively mined in China. China is already putting controls on the amount to will export. Then lets pretend that the materials shortages were somehow overcome. How about how would the power grid which is already straining be beefed up enough to supply the electric power needed to charge the equivalent of all the gasoline used in the world today. Ever see the years of legal battles every time a utility tries to add a new major power line through a neighborhood? What would create all of that electrical energy? Well most likely natural gas power plants. And many, many more would have to be built. Zero emissions is a farce, it's zero emissions at your car, but the emissions are just somewhere else at the generating power plant where you don't have to think about it. Don't say solar. Hawaii where there is actually enough sun for solar to make sense is already running in to the problem that solar panels on peoples roofs are too numerous for the distribution grid to handle. It is a very tricky thing to regulate the power on a grid. It is problematic at best to regulate it when you can't control the amount of power being pumped into it from tens of thousands of solar systems you as a utility have no control over. Power spikes and overloads are already being caused as a result, damaging appliances and in some cases utility wires and transformers because of this. For example my neighbor installed solar panels and now the power to my house no longer has a nice sine wave but has plateaus and spikes around the zero crossings due to the cheap inverters they use in these solar systems. This will not only reduce the life of his appliances but now mine too.

There are just way too many things to be worked out and it will be a lot longer than two years. If anything, it would be simpler to convert cars to burn natural gas. The electric cars are running on electric created by burning natural gas anyway.


Not to mention nickel, silver, lithium...

[This message has been edited by carbon (edited 12-27-2013).]

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Formula88
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Report this Post12-27-2013 03:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Formula88Send a Private Message to Formula88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by formulaWA:

As I was driving kept wondering how easy it would be to put this drive train in a Fiero. SInce a Fiero with the Tesla drive train would be about 1100 lbs light I am guessing the performance would be "spirited"


Drivetrain - easy.
Battery...

Good luck with that.
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Report this Post12-29-2013 01:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Formula88Send a Private Message to Formula88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by pokeyfiero:
I was undert he impression the 144 volts was top end of scale for the drive motors.


I believe the Chevy Volt battery pack is 360V and is regulated from there between the 12V systems and the traction motor.
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engine man
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Report this Post01-16-2014 05:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for engine manClick Here to Email engine manSend a Private Message to engine manEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
this is an article on aluminum air battery that can power a car 1000 miles befor recharge that the materials are about $50
http://www.extremetech.com/...duction-cars-in-2017
Oh ya i forgot you must put water in every 200 miles

[This message has been edited by engine man (edited 01-16-2014).]

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Csjag
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Report this Post01-16-2014 06:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for CsjagClick Here to Email CsjagSend a Private Message to CsjagEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thats really interesting. I have thought for awhile now that a hydrogen fuel cell would probably be the next step in engine power.
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engine man
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Report this Post01-16-2014 07:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for engine manClick Here to Email engine manSend a Private Message to engine manEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
this is a video of a car with it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFylTnMThY4
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ericjon262
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Report this Post01-18-2014 02:03 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ericjon262Send a Private Message to ericjon262Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by formulaWA:

Had a Tesla model S (the high performance version) out 4 a drive today. 0-100 km in 4.4 seconds 460 km range with a one hour recharge time (stop for lunch and u can drive it across the country)


wow, only 285 miles across the USA? damn, I must have taken the long way to get home last time I went back to Florida from South Carolina.
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dratts
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Report this Post01-19-2014 04:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for drattsClick Here to Email drattsSend a Private Message to drattsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
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Originally posted by ericjon262:


wow, only 285 miles across the USA? damn, I must have taken the long way to get home last time I went back to Florida from South Carolina.


285 miles stop for lunch and charge, another 285 miles stop for dinner and the night. Repeat tomorrow. 570 miles in one day is a decent drive. I've done the 1000 miles in a day drive and it takes a day to recover from it.
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formulaWA
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Report this Post01-19-2014 10:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for formulaWASend a Private Message to formulaWAEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by ericjon262:


wow, only 285 miles across the USA? damn, I must have taken the long way to get home last time I went back to Florida from South Carolina.


Not quite. If you noticed I said u go 460km and stop for lunch. It takes an hour 2 recharge then u go another 460 km and stop 4 another hour 2 recharge. U make the trip in several 460 km steps stopping 4 an hour 2 recharge between each step. U can cross the US in several 460km segments
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dobey
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Report this Post01-19-2014 10:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by formulaWA:


Not quite. If you noticed I said u go 460km and stop for lunch. It takes an hour 2 recharge then u go another 460 km and stop 4 another hour 2 recharge. U make the trip in several 460 km steps stopping 4 an hour 2 recharge between each step. U can cross the US in several 460km segments


you
to
for
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