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Found number of Fieros still on the roads: Only 30774 by mattman134
Started on: 11-16-2012 10:23 PM
Replies: 68 (3579 views)
Last post by: armos on 03-07-2014 09:41 PM
Dave Rodabaugh
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Report this Post11-22-2012 01:09 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Dave RodabaughClick Here to visit Dave Rodabaugh's HomePageClick Here to Email Dave RodabaughSend a Private Message to Dave RodabaughEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua:

Dave: Don't mean to hijack this post but have to ask where ya been all these years? I remember you from back in the mid 90's when we only had the Fiero mailing list and the Fiero Factory meets. Good to hear that ypou still have your Fieros. Proves that Fiero owners may go dormant for a while but they eventually surface again. We only had the Dukes, 60* V6's and the SBC option back then. How times have changed.



As time progresses, my interests change and I have found it beneficial to allow the change. I've learned that if I always hold on to what I've got, I will miss out on something else I could have. Once I learn a lot about an area, I often lose interest in it and move on to something else which captures my fancy. I've always loved cars but after a while, I had them mostly figured out. As for car boards (like this one), you figure them out, too. Eventually you see the same questions being asked and the same wrong answers being given, and you have to decide whether that's worth the time to keep participating. I decided it wasn't so I moved on to other areas. I stumbled on Airliners.net in 2005 and I spent a couple years there indulging a fantasy formed as a young child: commercial aviation and airliners. In 2008 I met a new friend who introduced me to an economic school of thought (and its attendant political philosophy) and I have spent four years pursuing a goal of being a detailed thinker in those areas.

Life has been busy since the Fiero.org days. My wife and I spawned three sons, now ages 7, 6, and 4. In 2004 I quit my job to strike out as an independent consultant and that has paid handsomely. I'm curently holding down three clients and all of them came via referral, so I suspect there will be more. We attend church every week; I have my sons' education to advance; and I still watch waaaaay too many spectator sports. I've taken up shooting and that can easily meet or beat cars in the "holds my interest" column. I have missed only two Ohio State football home games in about the past 20 years and my butt will be parked in the greatest shrine in all of college football, by the banks of the Olentangy, this upcoming Saturday for the 109th meeting in The Rivalry, where I hope my alma mater defeats the clown hats from the Ann Arbor Community College.

Generally, I find intellectual pursuits more gratifying than turning wrenches so I stopped turning wrenches except when my daily drivers required it. Meanwhile, several incomplete projects languished in the two garages I own. Well, I need to do something about those projects and I decided that I could use some wrench turning to work on some aspects of my character. Specifically, I have always had trouble enjoying the journey of life, being instead too eager to get to a destination, but once at that destination, I only care about the next destination. This is no way to spend life but I need avenues through which to learn these lessons. So I have resumed wrenching on my Fieros. I have an 87 base coupe (no options) that needs only brakes, tires, and a rear end alignment to be roadworthy. (It also needs some electrical ground work.) But this is not the major project. I'm presently putting an 88 V6 drivetrain into an 86 GT that I disassembled in 2002. The car is in good shape and the drivetrain ran well when it was removed from its original vehicle about eight years ago. (Cosmetically the drivetrain is pretty rough. I'm not going to do anything about that right now.)

I work on this project two to four hours per week in the evenings after my spawn are in bed. (I didn't say sleeping; I said "in bed". All parents know how that goes.) With each task I complete I find another issue to be resolved. I shrug and work it into the plan. However long it takes, I'm going to do complete it. I figure the car will be driveable sometime next summer. Maybe sooner, but maybe not. I'm not in a hurry and I'm learning to enjoy the journey.

I also have an ulterior motive for this car work. I've always wanted a Corvette. My wife says I can have one if I get rid of the Fieros. Well, I could just offer my stock of cars and parts (and oh boy do I have parts) for little or nothing and clear out my garage. But that's not what I *want*. I *want* to finish a couple of these cars and drive them because I like to drive them.

I came back here to ask some questions and refresh details I once knew but have forgotten. I always thought this site was one of the more literate car sites around. It's still literate, but right now it's got a pretty sour vibe fed by a handful of members. I hope they can exorcise their demons because they can't seem to stop spilling their misery into threads where it doesn't belong. But that won't keep me away.

So, maybe next year there will be two additional Fieros registered in the state of Ohio. I just need to focus on steady work and enjoying the journey. Then I'll get to enjoy a different kind of journey, the kind behind the wheel of a Fiero.

------------------
GO BUCKS!!!

[This message has been edited by Dave Rodabaugh (edited 11-22-2012).]

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mattman134
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Report this Post11-22-2012 04:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattman134Click Here to Email mattman134Send a Private Message to mattman134Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Niterrorz:

ya that seems amasing low considering there where 250k produced i believe.




There was 370,168 produced to be exact. 244k 4cylinder fieros were made
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orange85fierogtmitch
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Report this Post03-02-2014 02:55 AM Click Here to See the Profile for orange85fierogtmitchSend a Private Message to orange85fierogtmitchEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I doubt there are 30000 fiero's on the road actually running. I'd estimate maybe 10,000 actually drivable. I never see fieros on the road - maybe once ever 2 months. Every time I pull mines out I get a thousand questions. The younger generation really are ignorant about fieros. Nice to chat and give a little history lesson though. I think the decline in interest is due to the high cost to bring these back to life. I bought mines off ebay and the guy really duped me. Exhaust manifold had 2 snapped bolts-not just a new exhaust as the owner was claiming. Engine had to be dropped and manifold re machined . Pesky Irrational idle and dieing out issue that spanned over 3 years and garage queen duties. A gazillion replacement parts bought trying to fix the issue. 3 years later and $10000 less in my account, it's finally drivable and worthy to show.

She's a keeper now with all the money I've dumped into her.

I must admit I love this fiero now ... ...hope the exclusity and rareness continues ....one day these will be true collectables !!
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SuperchargedV6
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Report this Post03-02-2014 10:03 AM Click Here to See the Profile for SuperchargedV6Click Here to Email SuperchargedV6Send a Private Message to SuperchargedV6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Here are the totals off of my page www.FieroPaceCar.com over the last 8 years. Also I have locked it down for the time being with to many spam attacks so if you try to register let me know at Rborecky@roadrunner.com so I can put it through. Thanks,,Rick B


Total cars on this list minus first 4 is 424
Parade/Festival cars found 14
With Automatics 208
With Manual 205
No trans listed 13
Canadian 26
Destroyed/Salvaged 26

[This message has been edited by SuperchargedV6 (edited 03-02-2014).]

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Old Lar
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Report this Post03-02-2014 11:08 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Old LarSend a Private Message to Old LarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by orange85fierogtmitch:

I doubt there are 30000 fiero's on the road actually running. I'd estimate maybe 10,000 actually drivable. I never see fieros on the road - maybe once ever 2 months. Every time I pull mines out I get a thousand questions. The younger generation really are ignorant about fieros. Nice to chat and give a little history lesson though. I think the decline in interest is due to the high cost to bring these back to life. I bought mines off ebay and the guy really duped me. Exhaust manifold had 2 snapped bolts-not just a new exhaust as the owner was claiming. Engine had to be dropped and manifold re machined . Pesky Irrational idle and dieing out issue that spanned over 3 years and garage queen duties. A gazillion replacement parts bought trying to fix the issue. 3 years later and $10000 less in my account, it's finally drivable and worthy to show.

She's a keeper now with all the money I've dumped into her.

I must admit I love this fiero now ... ...hope the exclusity and rareness continues ....one day these will be true collectables !!


When I lived in upstate NY and would drive to Daytona for the spring show back in the late 90s, I rarely saw Fieros on the trip until I got to Daytona. My brother would count the number of Hummers (new at that time) vs Fieros we would see and Hummers would always win. It was a 1300 mile trip one way. Many Fieros, mine included, are no longer daily drivers so are not on the road not too frequently.

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rpro
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Report this Post03-02-2014 11:29 AM Click Here to See the Profile for rproClick Here to Email rproSend a Private Message to rproEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Let's not forget about places like the Fiero factory where there are countless dozens laying around in the yard, all un-registered.
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Report this Post03-02-2014 05:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DanyelClick Here to visit Danyel's HomePageSend a Private Message to DanyelEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
And I saw over 50 of them in a lot gathering dust in Las Vagas Nevada....

------------------

My Build Thread
Tylers Toy

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turbo86se
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Report this Post03-02-2014 07:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for turbo86seClick Here to Email turbo86seSend a Private Message to turbo86seEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Rick Morehouse:

Got 20 in the yard.


20? In May I'll be coming back down to the Pawley's area for a little vaca, mind if I stop by and say hi? I'd love to see the 20 Fieros!
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solotwo
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Report this Post03-02-2014 09:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for solotwoSend a Private Message to solotwoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Dave Rodabaugh I enjoyed your comments!
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armos
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Report this Post03-03-2014 11:52 AM Click Here to See the Profile for armosSend a Private Message to armosEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have 2, one unregistered. But that's not any dispute with the statistics, because that unregistered Fiero will never be driven again. It's structurally unsound and has been permanently and absolutely retired from service. The other is a healthy daily driver, which enjoys occasional donations from the retiree.

I used to be on the Fiero mailing list back in the 90s, but I don't remember the names anymore. It's been a long time. I used my real name back then but I wish I hadn't. I hate to think my grandkids will search my name someday, turn up the newsgroup archives and find some moronic post or flamewar I got into back then LOL.
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2.5
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Report this Post03-03-2014 12:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'm surprised when I see some that appear to just be treated like any other older daily driver, as if it were like a common Cavalier.
Lots of unregistered projects out there too I bet.
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Report this Post03-03-2014 12:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

2.5

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I cringe each time there is mention on the forum of one going to scrap.
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Fformula88
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Report this Post03-03-2014 12:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Fformula88Send a Private Message to Fformula88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have no reason to dispute the statistics, but also think they make sense. With Fieros in and around 30 years old, very few that were daily drivers would really be road worthy at this point. Particularly in northern states where rot has eaten their frames.

Even aside from rot, those driven a lot would just be mechanically and physically worn out and retired at this point, wrecked in accidents, etc.

Sure, there is an abundance of nice Fieros represented here, but chances are they are also the bulk of remaining nice Fieros out there.
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armos
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Report this Post03-04-2014 11:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for armosSend a Private Message to armosEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 2.5:
I'm surprised when I see some that appear to just be treated like any other older daily driver, as if it were like a common Cavalier.
Lots of unregistered projects out there too I bet.

A Fiero works just as well for a daily driver as a Cavalier does. Not much difference underneath the skin, and they're just as cheap. They do take more effort to find though.

I'm sure there's lots of unregistered Fieros out there, as with many other cars, but I wonder what percentage of unregistered vehicles ever really get back on the road. I bet it's not many. For every active project there's probably 20 that are sitting in weeds.
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V8 Vega
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Report this Post03-05-2014 12:51 AM Click Here to See the Profile for V8 VegaClick Here to Email V8 VegaSend a Private Message to V8 VegaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I live in a high population area and used to go to a big self service junkyard a lot. Every time I went there would be one or two sometimes three Fieros. And their only in the yard a short time at this place before they go to scrap metal.
I saw a cherry GT on the freeway recently but that was the 1st in awhile.
I read they only made 66,000 S2000's and 75,000 del Sols.
I don't see very many 84 to 88 cars of any kind anymore except CRX's. I have a CRX so I'm sure I notice them more but they are popular and people didn't junk them. And their 88 to 92.
Edit I tried to think of 84 to 88 cars I see at least once in awhile.
Mustangs and Camero's are the most but they sold in huge numbers. Pickup trucks and convertibles don't get junked as much as other cars.
RWD 84 and 85 Celicas are extinct but once in awhile I see 86 up old Celicas. Their never restored, just old cars that still run OK.
Very few Supura's but I don't think they sold in big numbers.
I did see a 88 MR 2 on the freeway recently in terrible shape but it said supercharged on the side. They only made those one year, 88 Car Craft magazine said their the fastest car around across the intersection.
I do see a occasional Nissan 300 ZX or is it SX 84 up, some of them are restored and nice.
I have a 87 Prelude Si and not long ago I would see another fairly frequently but none now.
You do see old Accords.
More expensive cars are saved more than cheap ones. I had a ton of time, work, and money in my Vega and it was way faster than 9/10 th's of Camero's around but was only worth a fraction of what old Cameros are going for to my great dismay.

[This message has been edited by V8 Vega (edited 03-05-2014).]

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2.5
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Report this Post03-05-2014 11:59 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by armos:

A Fiero works just as well for a daily driver as a Cavalier does. Not much difference underneath the skin, and they're just as cheap. They do take more effort to find though.



They are more special though
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armos
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Report this Post03-05-2014 12:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for armosSend a Private Message to armosEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by V8 Vega:
I saw a cherry GT on the freeway recently but that was the 1st in awhile.
I read they only made 66,000 S2000's and 75,000 del Sols.
I don't see very many 84 to 88 cars of any kind anymore except CRX's. I have a CRX so I'm sure I notice them more but they are popular and people didn't junk them. And their 88 to 92.


I don't know much about CRX's but I also see them more than most 80sish cars. I don't know what actual model years they are by looking though.
I guess I don't see Del Sols all that much anymore, but still more than Fieros. I'm surprised they only made 75k of them. Used to see them a lot.
The cars I'm starting to see an awful lot of are recent model Miatas. Got into my first stoplight race in a long time against one about 6 months ago.
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lorennerol
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Report this Post03-06-2014 01:36 AM Click Here to See the Profile for lorennerolSend a Private Message to lorennerolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Wow. Well over 300,000 Fieros between 84 and 88.

My other two seat sports car is a Saturn Sky. A grand total of 34,407 were made in 2007-2009, with 8 rare 2010s produced before GM shut it all down.

Glad to have them both. They are unusual and fun to drive.

Edit to add: I see maybe a half dozen on the road around Seattle in a year, except for the monthly club meeting, where we typically have 15-20.

[This message has been edited by lorennerol (edited 03-06-2014).]

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hyperv6
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Report this Post03-06-2014 07:11 AM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I think people way over think this.

There were more of these cars made than just about any 2 seater in this short of a span.

There are a lot of Fiero people as if you look at out events, web sites etc. our numbers are greater than many other vehicles. Just look at the Monte Carlo nationals and I think they get like 60-80 cars.

This is not like a Cavalier where no one is working with them or just letting them rot.

The real fact there are so many around is pointed out by the value. Lets face it demand is still strong for this car and the values are down because it is not all that hard to find one let alone a low mileage one. I can take you to several low mileage ones right now. Try that with a older Z/28 or TA.

The fact is they built a hell of a lot of these and the fact is percentage wise not a lot of them got trashed over the years. While the numbers have dropped they are not hard to find or buy good clean examples. When you try to go find one and there are none for sale on the web or if you have difficulty finding a clean example their numbers will be much lower then.

I would not be surprised id over a third of the Fiero's built are still with us. While the number running will be lower the fact is they are not hard to find if you really look. Start looking at other models and consider how many were made and how often they are seen and you will notice many in built un good numbers are seen less than a Fiero.

Also much of it has to do with where you live. I see them weekly here summer and winter. In fact I have seen a different one every day this week since Monday. Some nice some not. Just because you do not see them in Kansa City does not mean they are not around. Most were sold in Ohio. Mi, IN and IL.

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RayOtton
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Report this Post03-06-2014 07:55 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RayOttonClick Here to Email RayOttonSend a Private Message to RayOttonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Purely anecdotal, not "scientific" but in three cross country trips over four years totally 14,000 miles, we saw ONE Fiero on the road out in Colorado. A very nice silver GT.

Didn't even see one in the multitude of casual junkyards that seem to be a fixture in every town west of the Mississippi. Saw an Opel GT, Dodge Rampage, too may Ford pickups to count, MG Midget, oodles of '50's sedans, even saw a Warszawa ( Polish sedan used mostly as taxi cabs ) but not a single Fiero.

In case you're wondering about my intimate knowledge of junkyards, wifey and I have an agreement. I go to every damn antique store on the continent and she get's to sit in the car while I peruse a junkyard or two.

Up front it ain't fair but there are other considerations.
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Report this Post03-06-2014 09:59 AM Click Here to See the Profile for css9450Click Here to Email css9450Send a Private Message to css9450Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by hyperv6:
Also much of it has to do with where you live. I see them weekly here summer and winter. In fact I have seen a different one every day this week since Monday. Some nice some not. Just because you do not see them in Kansas City does not mean they are not around. Most were sold in Ohio. Mi, IN and IL.


You must live in a very different kind of area than I do. I see about one a year, unless it happens to be on the way to Fierorama or the Dells or some such event where I'll see various ones on the highway going to or from.

Whatever the percentage of remaining Fieros is, it probably far dwarfs the percentage of many other cars from the same time period. Cavaliers from '84-'88? Probably a small percentage remain. But even 5% of total Cavalier production in '84-'88 is still a lot of cars. Much more than Fieros.
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Report this Post03-06-2014 01:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Alex4mulaClick Here to Email Alex4mulaSend a Private Message to Alex4mulaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
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Originally posted by mattman134:

I was messing around on my uncles VIO program yesterday, which stands for Vehicles in Operation. I wanted to see how many fieros were still registered in the US and on the roads, and the number is disappointing: 30,774.

30774 fieros still in operation isnt a whole lot.

Matt

So can you provide more info on this source that you have? Assuming it is legit (not that I am arguing different) then this may be the best real actual data we have versus the rest of people here throwing guesstimates. Probably some may not be running but many do not pay registration for not running cars so that number should not be that high. Also is very probable that a much higher number are stored in garages and not used much so you won't see them out there. I wish there were more but remember these cars are 25yrs old by now. I get remembered constantly how old they are when kids 21-25 yrs old don't know what a Fiero is. Now lets assume every of those 30K owners have on average one unregistered car at his yard (absurd I think) then that would bring it up to 60k? We have to be honest and admit that the majority of those unregistered cars will end up at the junkyard after being striped, rusted or just sold for metal money. Just feel good that you have something special and becoming rare by the minute ;-)

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hyperv6
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Report this Post03-06-2014 08:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by css9450:


You must live in a very different kind of area than I do. I see about one a year, unless it happens to be on the way to Fierorama or the Dells or some such event where I'll see various ones on the highway going to or from.

Whatever the percentage of remaining Fieros is, it probably far dwarfs the percentage of many other cars from the same time period. Cavaliers from '84-'88? Probably a small percentage remain. But even 5% of total Cavalier production in '84-'88 is still a lot of cars. Much more than Fieros.


Like I said it depends where you live. In NE Ohio they are far from a rare sight just as they are in southern MI.

As for how many are left vs. Cavaliers you may be surprised to find there may be more Fiero's left. The Cavaliers were all used up pretty much and many are not around anymore. When was the last time you saw a 1985 Z24? Sunbird Turbo? On the other hand many Fiero's were second and third cars used on weekends and many are well preserved. Like stated I know where a 14K mile 88 is for sale right now and if you look around there are more low mileage Fiero's very easy to find if you just know where to look.

It is difficult to estimate or even confirm a real number but the truth is just because you don't see em does not mean they are not out there. Like stated look at the number of people into them and the value of the cars. If they were all that rare with this many people interested they would be worth a whole lot more due to supply and demand.

In time the number will continue to fall and prime examples will become more difficult to find. Then you will see the prices go up. But that will still take a while.

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ironhead.76
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Report this Post03-06-2014 09:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ironhead.76Click Here to visit ironhead.76's HomePageClick Here to Email ironhead.76Send a Private Message to ironhead.76Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have two. 1 registered 1988 formula. 1 unregistered 1986 se v6.

[This message has been edited by ironhead.76 (edited 03-06-2014).]

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Report this Post03-06-2014 11:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fast40driverClick Here to Email fast40driverSend a Private Message to fast40driverEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have two registered and drievable, plus one CJB project, which came with an appropriate story. I got it from a guy named Andy, up in Oaks Harbor WA. When I picked it up, he had, I believe, 33 cars still on his lot. He had mentioned that he regarded a plate with current tags as a significant investment, and tried to maximize his return. Being a small town, this lead to a couple of conversations with the local deputy sheriff, that went something like this:

Hi, Andy,

Hi, Fred,

5 minutes small talk, then

Say, Andy, did you paint your car, thought it was blue last week?

Err, yes, Fred

Looks like you changed wheels on it, too?

Well, yes, had them around

Must of had some body panels, too, Andy, wasn't it a coupe last week?

. . . .I guess I've got to be going, now, Fred - good talking to you.
Maybe there is a couple more actually on the road?

Mike

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Xyster
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Report this Post03-07-2014 11:07 AM Click Here to See the Profile for XysterSend a Private Message to XysterEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 2.5:

I cringe each time there is mention on the forum of one going to scrap.


Amen.

This is why I am always saying the price needs to go UP! Too many kids are buying them, using them up and scraping them. That or "eh, it's got a little rust, better scrap it since I am to lazy to fix it."
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mattwa
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Report this Post03-07-2014 11:32 AM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Xyster:


Amen.

This is why I am always saying the price needs to go UP! Too many kids are buying them, using them up and scraping them. That or "eh, it's got a little rust, better scrap it since I am to lazy to fix it."


Considering all the Fiero's I have had so far in my life, I have only scrapped out one Fiero (88 sadly enough), and that's because I wrecked it. But I took nearly everything I could off it and cut it up into little pieces.
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BrittB
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Report this Post03-07-2014 08:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BrittBSend a Private Message to BrittBEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I've brought my 85 SE back from the dead, ( no joke), it was minutes away from going to the scrap yard. Rust free and never wrecked, just had an idiot for a mechanic!
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armos
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Report this Post03-07-2014 09:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for armosSend a Private Message to armosEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'm not sure parked cars should count, but I guess it depends what you're trying to measure. Parked cars can exist for a very long time, but I doubt more than a handful of them ever get back on the road as viable drivers. They exist, but until they get back on the road I think it's more realistic to classify them as parts donors, the same as cars in junkyards.

IMO, badly rusted cars are the ones most worth letting go of.
Solid cars that are being disposed for engine/transmission problems are a much more worthwhile platform to save. In some areas, there are clean cars like that all around you for a few hundred bucks.
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