I have the aluminum pan and 3" exhaust without doing anything to the pan. There are two main reasons this works. I am using an 87 cradle and the fact that my engine mount is designed to mount to the top of the cradle. This allows the original engine mount flange to be removed, allowing room for the 3" exhaust to go between the cradle rail and the pan and not hang down below the cradle. These are a couple of reasons why my mounts got created. Those functions were requirements and this was how i was going to be able to accomplish the goals.
When you use the 88 cradle you will have less clearance between the pan and the engine mount flange. The 88 cradle is narrower under the motor and the 88 exhaust has more bend toward the center of the car than the 87 in order to go around the engine flange. I have had my motor mounted on an 88 cradle with my transaxle mounts and engine mount. The engine mount looks like it would fit on top of the 88 cradle like it does on the 87, but would require a mounting surface be added to the cradle. It looks very possible, but I did not pursue it at the time. When time allows, this is the approach I would take to develop the engine mount for the 88 cradle. I would like to use the same engine piece and build an adapter to the cradle as you suggest. I think that the same base for the engine mount that is used on the 87 cradle can be used to mount to the adaptor platform that you describe. Getting the stock engine mount flange out of the way really opens up the opportunity for a larger and or straighter exhaust.
A big difference in these transaxle mounts is that they do not mount the transaxle bracket from a single stud. They mount to the transaxle and both sides of the bracket are bolted directly to the mount. Amir's pictures of his bent brackets illustrate why these mounts are designed as they are. https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/040682.html I hate to keep posting Amir's pictures, but they are such a good example of the weakness of the stamped steel brackets.
If I had to make a choice between 3" exhaust and the aluminum pan, I would choose the 3" exhaust. You will find the exhaust to be much more functional than the aluminum pan. If you change to a steel pan, be sure that you change the oil pickup tube as they are different between the steel pan and the aluminum pan. The windage trays are different also.
I have run my car 40,000 + miles with these mounts and there has been no problems with axles, bearings or angles. I had the transaxle rebuilt to include new bearings and installed the axle support bearings.
Let me know if you need further information or pictures.
Bill, I am just about to order a set of your mounts, but one thing. When you had your motor mounted on the 88 cradle, about how much fabricated space in inches was needed for it to be level, and also looking at various pictures comparing the 87 and 88 cradles with mounted 3800's, wouldn't the poly mount portion overextend past the cradle and possibly too close to the suspension. I can envision a well braced overhang like an aircraft carriers deck on the side. I know getting weird here, i did read about using the truck poly tranny mount and a plate, but I will pass on any ideas before i start any fabrication on my end.
Shoot me a PM about costs for shipping all three pieces
Now you're really working on my memory. I went out and did some rough measurements on the 88 cradle and you are right on the overhang. What I remember thinking was that the indentation in front of the front suspension link could have a piece made that would make that part of the cradle level and provide a flat surface for mounting the base for the engine mount. the mount base is about 3" wide and the outside of the base sticks out about 1" beyond the harmonic balancer. The center of the base is 3 1/2" from the center of the axle. I would have to have a motor on the cradle to see exactly where the mount base would land, but I seem to remember being encouraged that it would work. I think I will have another motor and transaxle at the house this weekend and will try to see if I can get that setup onto an 88 cradle and get some pictures and better measurements for you.
Thanks for the link. That is a very nice installation and interesting four mount system. It looks like the goal was similar in that using 3" exhaust was an important requirement for the installation.
I'll PM with the other details.
Thanks,
Bill
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08:31 PM
Apr 29th, 2004
fierobill Member
Posts: 114 From: Panama City, FL Registered: Dec 2002
Thanks for the interest. I can't get sucked into committing to making something that is nothing more than a thought. I think I can make it work, but I don't want to get people all excited and start ordering things that don't exist. My goal is to be able to send what people want in the next days mail and have them receive it two days later. That's the way I like to receive parts and what I would think other expect of me. I hope I never have to see these words quoted in a future post because I couldn't make it happen.
So much for that. I have a motor and transaxle in my garage that I will try to get onto an 88 cradle this weekend and see if the thought that I have will work. If successful, I will build some templates and see if it can be economically produced to adapt the engine mount to the 88 cradle. I will post whatever comes out of the research.
Just received my mounts from Bill and I've just got one thing to say about them, OMG. Pictures dont do these justice. They are PRETTY DAMN STOUT pieces that look like they can take any punishment given to them. My soon to be 3800SC and Getrag thank you. I look back at the WCF mounts now that I have and I have to say, what was I thinking or better yet, more like what were they thinking. I cringe thinking about WCF'S one bolt connecting mount to tranny bracket and the visual of it being sheared off or twisted apart. Thanks Bill for the peace of mind that if anything breaks it wont be your mounts, but something else of my doing. Wow, GOOD STUFF!
BTW for that aluminum oil pan pickup and screen, you said they are different compared to the steel oil pan unit, just confirming that and also wondering if you have a part # or what year and application does it belong to. Thanks Patrick.
------------------ Patrick Szewczyk 1987 Fiero GT, 5 spd, sunroof Centerforce DF clutch, Koni's all around, coilovers in the back, lowered 2" -dropped spindles-front, poly bushings: control arms-sway bars-cradle-motor-dogbone, rear sway bar, pioneer cd player, Rodney Dickman's short shifter, bushings, etc..., 11.25" big brakes w/Ebrake, k&n filter, I have a 3800SC SII that's goin in soon w/ 3.0 pulley, intercooler, comp cams vs cam, ported and matched heads and intake, Performance3800 3" collector headers, stainless 3" exhaust, + 17x7.5 MiM Venezias wheels + 225/45/17 and 235/40/17's.
[This message has been edited by VISCERAL (edited 05-04-2004).]
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11:43 PM
May 5th, 2004
87GT3800SC5SPD Member
Posts: 288 From: Gig Harbor, Washington Registered: Oct 2002
Thanks for the nice comments. I'm glad you are pleased with the mounts.
The oil pickup tube is different for the aluminum pan than in the steel pan. I don't have part numbers available right now, but can try to locate them for you. The aluminum pan has the windage tray bolted in the pan and the steel pan has the windage tray as part of the pan gasket. If memory serves me correctly, the steel pan pickup sits lower than the aluminum pan pickup and if used with an aluminum pan the result is no oil pressure due to the pickup being directly on the bottom of the pan. That was not an easy thing to figure out, but I had that problem. I think someone swapped pans before shipping the motor.
I have been looking at the modifications necessary to make the engine mount fit on the 88 cradle. I need to build some templates and see if the fabrication shop can build a prototype. I can't, however, make any time commitments. I'll update as I have further information.
Thank you hairy... Bill hows your stock on these mounts??? I need a set ASAP for my swap. 98 rivera SC to a 4t65e hd to a 87 gt cradle. Thanks!!
------------------ Ferrari 308 GTB rebody on a modified 86SE chasis Soon to have a highly hooped up 3800SC..Ohh yeah baby!! Contacts _ AIM / Zildjianfx _ Yahoo / djdraggin Remember, always brush your milk, drink your teeth, dont do sleep and get eight hours of drugs.
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01:17 AM
May 14th, 2004
87GT3800SC5SPD Member
Posts: 288 From: Gig Harbor, Washington Registered: Oct 2002
Thank you hairy... Bill hows your stock on these mounts??? I need a set ASAP for my swap. 98 rivera SC to a 4t65e hd to a 87 gt cradle. Thanks!!
Eric,
These transaxle mounts are for a 5 speed Getrag in all year cradles. The engine mount is for the 84-87 cradle. These mounts, when all used together, will lower the motor/transaxle in the cradle about 1 1/2". The engine mount attaches to the top of the cradle so that the stock engine mount flange can be removed to allow for straighter and larger exhaust.
I am currently working on re-designing the engine mount to work for the 88 cradle. The design concept is complete and is in the prototype and drawing stages now, but no delivery date can be promised at this time. Sometime after I get my car back together, I hope to be working on an automatic into an 88 cradle and get those mounts made. Again, nothing will happen on those until after my car is back together and I return from Wheatstock.
I will respond to your email as well. I'm sorry I do not have the automatic mounts ready for you yet.
Bill I would like to buy your 88 cradle stiffner, how to order? (I live in Europe, netherlands) Also I am very interested in your 5sp lower trans mounts/brackets, only thing is I have a 4sp. From looking at pictures I cannot see great differences in the way the brackets fit to my 4sp, this made me think that your brackets should fit or be easily made to fit the 4sp. What is your view on this?
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09:25 PM
fiero-iwan Member
Posts: 352 From: Eindhoven,Netherlands,Europe Registered: Mar 2003
Bill, I need/want one of your cradle stiffeners. Where do I send payment?
Neil
Neil,
Thanks for your interest in the cradle stiffener. I accept PayPal payments using email address levinemail@comcast.net .
The stiffener is $25 and the shipping is $5 via Priority Mail for a total payment of $30.
Sorry for the delayed response. I was at the Wheatstock event and enjoyed putting some miles on my car getting there and back, a little over 5,000 miles total for the trip.
Also I am very interested in your 5sp lower trans mounts/brackets, only thing is I have a 4sp. From looking at pictures I cannot see great differences in the way the brackets fit to my 4sp, this made me think that your brackets should fit or be easily made to fit the 4sp. What is your view on this?
Bill, I've got the aluminum pan and the 3" exhaust pipe and I have no idea how you squeezed that in there. Theres no way to have the pipe alongside the pan at the same height as the cradle. Do you have it below the cradle, because the pan has a pointed end on it on top of it all. Your pics on the Yahoo group dont show that area too well. I assume you cant use a straight piece and one must section angle it, correct? Please let me know I'd rather not use the steel oil pan. Any way you can tell me how much of the pipe extends past the cradles bottom and how much clearance you have between the pan and the cradle? Thanks in advance!
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10:14 AM
FastFieros Member
Posts: 2698 From: Dallas Texas USA Registered: Nov 2000
Sorry for the delay. I just got back and getting caught up on email and other stuff.
It does fit. I'll email some pics to you that may not be on the Yahoo site. There is a slight bend in the pipe and the apex of the bend is right at the point in the pan. The angle is fairly slight and follows the same line as the cradle. The pictures should help.
Bill
quote
Originally posted by VISCERAL:
Bill, I've got the aluminum pan and the 3" exhaust pipe and I have no idea how you squeezed that in there. Theres no way to have the pipe alongside the pan at the same height as the cradle. Do you have it below the cradle, because the pan has a pointed end on it on top of it all. Your pics on the Yahoo group dont show that area too well. I assume you cant use a straight piece and one must section angle it, correct? Please let me know I'd rather not use the steel oil pan. Any way you can tell me how much of the pipe extends past the cradles bottom and how much clearance you have between the pan and the cradle? Thanks in advance!
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08:30 PM
87GT3800SC5SPD Member
Posts: 288 From: Gig Harbor, Washington Registered: Oct 2002
the thick transmission mount brackets look great - those are exactly what i was tearing apart with my lowly 3.4 - can't imagine how the stock ones hold up to a v8
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08:13 AM
LoW_KeY Member
Posts: 8081 From: Hastings, MI Registered: Oct 2001
is the cradle stiffener right behind the drivers rear wheel? I'm having a brain fart here and need help with a mental pic
if it's what I think it is, I'm interested if theres any left.
Thanks for your interest in the cradle stiffener.
The cradle stiffener fits under the front transaxle mount, inside the cross member where the transaxle mount is bolted. The 88 cradles develop a crack parallel to the length of the cross member right under the transaxle mount.
It is designed to be bolted to the cradle using the two bolts that attach the transaxle mount and then the bottom is welded along the bottom of the cross member. It can be installed without removing anything in the car but the two bolts and can be welded after the installation. Most muffler shops should be able to weld the two sides of the stiffener in a few minutes.
I have some left and can ship right away. I accept PayPal payments using email address levinemail@comcast.net .
The stiffener is $25 and the shipping is $5 via Priority Mail for a total payment of $30. It will arrive in 2 days in most of the US.
Any news Bill on the development of the 88 cradle engine mount? Also, any plans to adapt one of the trans mounts so it'll fit a 4sp?
I'm waiting anxiously..
I would like to buy your 88 cradle stiffner allready. Could you please let me know the total price including shipping to the Netherlands (Europe), and where to paypal the money.
