I have a 8'x12' breezeway that connects my uninsulated garage to my brick house. It's in desparate need of repairing the front exterior wall (Base plate rotted and some other rot going on.) This spring I'll be redoing that wall for sure. On the opposite wall I have a sliding patio door. I'm not sure that is the best solution for a fully insulated room. I have thoughts of repurposing this room into my laundry room as I can tap right into my kitchen drain pipe and venting.

I need heat in that room. My house furnace room is in the basement and about 15' to front of the breezway. I don't know if it has enough umph to add ductwork and push heat to the breezway. And, is it realistic to punch through the foundation and brick to run a duct out to the breezeway?

My other option I thought of is to add a ventless propane/natural gas ventless wall heater. I heat a 12x12 workshop with a 18,000 btu portable propane heater and I have a 30,000 btu wall mounted natural gas/propane heater ready to go into that room. Far back end of the garage and about 15' away from the breezeway to the back.

I plan on insulating the garage this spring. We don't use the garage to house a vehicle. (At 12'x22' we call it a 3/4 car garage as the Fiero was even a tight fit for it to be functional. I have plans down the road to use this as my woodworking shop for the tablesaw and jointer and tools that require the larger space. Heating the whole garage would be nice but I really don't need it heated 24/7.

At this point electrical heat is not an option as I am maxed out on my enterance box as it stands now.

Tap into my current furnace to heat that room, add a ventless gas wall heater, or just get a used house furnace and heat the breezeway, 12'x12' workshop and the 12'x22' garage?

vent less or vented propane heater is the quickest, probably the cheapest quick fix, if you want to use the house furnace insulate the vent going to the room and it should help keep the heat in the vent better. but cutting through a foundation may require putting in some bracing the opening something to think about. I use a trailer furnace in my shop, but that requires a chimney to exhaust the fumes so take that into the price as well.

Steve

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Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't



Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 03-11-2014).]

How warm will you keep the garage and how warm do you want the breezeway?
Do the garage heat thing 1st and leave it open to the breezeway to heat it from the garages heat.
Or, just an electric liquidfilled baseboard in the breezway. **(with its own thermostat on it)
Or, leave the opening to the breezeway open to your houses heat.

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 03-11-2014).]

if you want a real quick easy fix try one of these,

http://www.amazon.com/Mr-He...ropane/dp/B00505DPRK

Works great even in a power outage and would work great in your garage, I got one last year for when I need to work away from powered areas, say the plow truck died out in a field but it works great in the shop to get the temp up quick and then the furnace can keep it there so I can go out there and not have to wait for the furnace to get the temps up when its really cold.

Steve

Grew up with an older version of one of these and it just put out all sorts of heat.

I would really think long and hard about punching a hole in the foundation. I know people do it all the time, but after watching my sister spend about $20K having her foundation fixed just so she could sell the house, I would be leery of it. Her problems all started with a crack where a 2nd kitchen drain was added thru the slab.
Her slab was about 40 years old tho.

A separate heater will require manual operation (you turn on and off). A ventless propane heater (we have a 30,000 BTU one in the living room for supplemental heat) should NEVER be run unattended, as they are not designed for that. They are for temporary room heat. Your best bet may be to find a way to run a duct without going through the foundation and don't put any water lines in there.

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1986 SE Aero coupe.

3.4 DOHC swap is complete and running, now just have to finish the rest of the car...

If I want this for a laundry room.... Water lines are needed. The original exterior brick wall is now the breezeway's interior wall on the inside of that original exterior wall is my kitchen sink and dishwasher water feed and drain lines The slab in the breezeway in guessing is 40 years old. The house is 67 years old. The breezeway slab needs repair to it as I have some upheaval in that slab.... a 2' crack towards the front leaving about a 1/4" lift along the crack.

If the breezway will be a year round laundry room, you are going to need reliable, unattended heat (especially if you live in MN.) The safest & most efficient way would be running a duct or two from your existing heat source / furnace. I think you'll regret doing it any other way. I would start with determining if your current furnace / ductwork could handle the extra heat load of the breezway.

If I were doing this project, I would go as far as to put a new, correct-sized furnace in my house if I had to.

Run duct work and if necessary add a booster in the duct. Insulate with spray foam in the walls, insulate the floor also, with foam sheets.

The other option is electric heat for that area. It is safe and cheap to install (baseboard type).... OR install radiant floor heat (electric will work). (upgrade your box/service, if necessary.

Block foundation? Easy to chip through with a small air hammer.

[This message has been edited by jaskispyder (edited 03-11-2014).]

I have a couple of Kerosene portable space heaters. Either one would easily do the trick.
The catch is that it's getting hard to find a place near me that sells kerosene by the gallon.
The plastic bottles at the hardware store are way too expensive.
http://www.midlandhardware....dfBYAQQ#.Ux9Fj4URdyA

http://cornwall.kijiji.ca/c...r-W0QQAdIdZ511436856

If you lived closer to me, I'd cut you a steal of a deal before I move.

[This message has been edited by NEPTUNE (edited 03-11-2014).]

quote Originally posted by aceman: If I want this for a laundry room.... Water lines are needed. The original exterior brick wall is now the breezeway's interior wall on the inside of that original exterior wall is my kitchen sink and dishwasher water feed and drain lines The slab in the breezeway in guessing is 40 years old. The house is 67 years old. The breezeway slab needs repair to it as I have some upheaval in that slab.... a 2' crack towards the front leaving about a 1/4" lift along the crack.

if the slab is in need of repair heat in the area may cause movement, depending on how well the slab was made as well as if rebar was put in. you may want to consider fixing that first before putting heat in that area. heat may not just thought you should know about that ahead of time. if the slab is cracked threw that may cause problems when heating the area.

If you go with the furnace and cut through the foundation make sure you put steel bracing in the opening, I had to do that when we had central heat and air unit in our place in TN when they cut threw the foundation blocks.


Steve

Without knowing the layout of the house /garage just have a suggestion.

Would it be easier to place a new furnace in the garage and heat the breezeway from there?
Maybe a mobile home furnace would work with a thermostat?
That way you just have to run a gas line. You said your electrical box was maxed out so electric heat was out of the question.
You are in Minnesota and having a “secondary/backup” furnace is always a good idea.

Electricity is not an option without upgrading my entrance box. I'm looking at adding a second electrical line into my garage. Electric baseboard heating is probably the best solution, but I hate my electric bill in the winter. (My family room addition has electric heat in it that we're hoping a gas fireplace will keep down the costs and free up a breaker in the panel.)

I have a 220 v electric heater in my breezway, about 25x10 feet. It keeps it above 74* even on 0* days. It only costs me about $25 @ month in winter and it has no insulation at all except the ceiling...all glass at one end and stuccoed plywood at the other. 120 v will cost a lot more. I bought it from Northerntool.com for $175.

edit to add...its on sale now too.

http://www.northerntool.com..._200452347_200452347

[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 03-11-2014).]

I do have a small propane furnace that used to be in a 800sq ft cabin. It seems to be a self contained unit with no duct outlets. Just seems to blow air from the unit itself. I know I could convert it to natural gas with a new orffice, but is it possible to add ducts to blow into the breezeway and into the 12'x12' workshop? That furnace is probably fine to heat the garage bay, but overkill to keat a 100 square foot room.

quote Originally posted by aceman: I do have a small propane furnace that used to be in a 800sq ft cabin. It seems to be a self contained unit with no duct outlets. Just seems to blow air from the unit itself. I know I could convert it to natural gas with a new orffice, but is it possible to add ducts to blow into the breezeway and into the 12'x12' workshop? That furnace is probably fine to heat the garage bay, but overkill to keat a 100 square foot room.

one thing you have to remember about any type of heater that burns even if doesn't need an exhaust vent it burns O2 and that is great in a green house, we have one of those we got from someone who gave us and old greenhouse, it was great for that and added CO2 to the air, plants need CO2 humans don't. just a heads up on that one. while it may be a great idea can you also add a thermostat to it if it doesn't have one already? also I think your best bet and cheapest, easiest is an old trailer home furnace, just cut a hole in the roof for the chimney, remember they have an inlet for air in that chimney as well as the exhaust, sounds funny but that's how they are. So they are not using your O2 from the room for burning. you can pick them up all summer long cheap, they go for more in the winter. I use a 55 gallon drum outside my shop for my oil/kerosene but had a friend who used 5 gallon gas cans and just ran the fuel feed line into the can and heated a huge shop in his commercial garage that way he never had to buy an entire fuel tank setup outside. while not ideal for a home setup just something to think about.

Steve

[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 03-11-2014).]

I think you would be fine with proper insulation and running a duct from the furnace (with booster if needed). You could supplement with a space heater if needed. The trick is to insulate that area. Spray foam will cost more up front, but you will get the rewards later. This about it as a insulated cooler.... properly sealed, it will retain the heat. Fiberglass insulation is "ok"... cellulose is better, but foam is where it is at.

quote Originally posted by jaskispyder: I think you would be fine with proper insulation and running a duct from the furnace (with booster if needed). You could supplement with a space heater if needed. The trick is to insulate that area. Spray foam will cost more up front, but you will get the rewards later. This about it as a insulated cooler.... properly sealed, it will retain the heat. Fiberglass insulation is "ok"... cellulose is better, but foam is where it is at.

Spray foam is great for cracks, just make sure you don't use the maximum expanding type, it can actually move things when it expands. I would go with the board foam and then the spray foam for the cracks save money on the cost of the spray foam, as well as the fumes from that crap is toxic when it is drying. after it dries its fine but a heads up when spraying it, it smells really, really bad and as I said, toxic while drying. respirator is a must while spraying in a closed room and make sure any doors or opening to the main house are closed when you are doing it as well, but again once it sries its fine.

Steve

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: Spray foam is great for cracks, just make sure you don't use the maximum expanding type, it can actually move things when it expands. I would go with the board foam and then the spray foam for the cracks save money on the cost of the spray foam, as well as the fumes from that crap is toxic when it is drying. after it dries its fine but a heads up when spraying it, it smells really, really bad and as I said, toxic while drying. respirator is a must while spraying in a closed room and make sure any doors or opening to the main house are closed when you are doing it as well, but again once it sries its fine. Steve

I was talking about the type you buy for insulating large areas. I was not talking about the small can of stuff. You can get a two part system from the home store. It is sold as a DIY, but I would just hire an insulating company to come out and do it. It will probably be cheaper. I found that to be true when I had cellulose blown in. The company could install it cheaper than I could buy the insulation and DIY. No brainer there.

http://www.sprayfoamkit.com/

FYI, using foam panels and sealing them on the edges is not the same as spraying the entire open space with foam. The foam will form an air seal where you have gaps in the framing/nails. Plus, It looks like there is less work just spraying the foam.....

[This message has been edited by jaskispyder (edited 03-11-2014).]

The insulating is not a problem. I'm having a contractor insulate the crawlspace under my family room addition this summer. If the price is right, he'll be re-doing the insulation in the workshop and probably insulating the breezeway.

Anyone have thoughts on the sliding pation door? It opens up to a 18x18 concrete patio. Will I get a tighter sealed room if I just replace the patio door with a 36" exterior door?

quote Originally posted by aceman: The insulating is not a problem. I'm having a contractor insulate the crawlspace under my family room addition this summer. If the price is right, he'll be re-doing the insulation in the workshop and probably insulating the breezeway. Anyone have thoughts on the sliding pation door? It opens up to a 18x18 concrete patio. Will I get a tighter sealed room if I just replace the patio door with a 36" exterior door?

You can keep the patio door and just replace it with a higher quality one. You could put in a french door, as it has one door that has a seal all the way around. I have one in my house and it isn't any colder than the surrounding area (-25F this winter). This is an Andersen door, not a cheap brand. So, if you go for a replacement, spend a few extra bucks and get a quality door. This will also keep the light shining in.

BTW, my push for foam is because it is also an air seal, which you can't get from other types of insulation.

quote Originally posted by aceman: The insulating is not a problem. I'm having a contractor insulate the crawlspace under my family room addition this summer. If the price is right, he'll be re-doing the insulation in the workshop and probably insulating the breezeway. Anyone have thoughts on the sliding pation door? It opens up to a 18x18 concrete patio. Will I get a tighter sealed room if I just replace the patio door with a 36" exterior door?

depends on the compass direction they face and as said above the quality of the doors. if they are facing south they could be advantageous as far as heat goes even in the winter. They can create a greenhouse affect helping to heat the area as long as they are good quality doors and well sealed.

Steve

Patio door faces east and the front door faces west. The brick wall is north and the garage wall is south.

PM your way, Steve.

"Input needed to heat my breezeway "

Hmm theres gotta be a few PFF members you could invite over to play poker in there, plenty of hot air would flow.

quote Originally posted by 2.5: "Input needed to heat my breezeway " Hmm theres gotta be a few PFF members you could invite over to play poker in there, plenty of hot air would flow.

Are you inviting yourself over?

quote Originally posted by 2.5: "Input needed to heat my breezeway " Hmm theres gotta be a few PFF members you could invite over to play poker in there, plenty of hot air would flow.

Well, there's your solution.

How about heating the slab ?

Either a glycol circulating system, or electric grid with slate tiles laid on top. I had the electric at the last country place (heat was 2 propane fireplaces and the heated floor and really once the floor got set to 60-65 thats all that was needed. The gas fireplaces were ambiance only really, and the elctric space heater was for a quick warm-up on REALLY cold days, more to sit in front of for 10 minutes than anything else.)

quote Originally posted by aceman: Patio door faces east and the front door faces west. The brick wall is north and the garage wall is south. PM your way, Steve.

PM returned

quote Originally posted by aceman: Are you inviting yourself over?

I'm sure I qualify, how many BTU's is for others to decide

quote Originally posted by 2.5: I'm sure I qualify, how many BTU's is for others to decide

Also, along with can't/don't want an electric heat solution, I also don't need a bunch of guys playing poker with a lot of hot air AND a methane gas solution.

quote Originally posted by aceman: Also, along with can't/don't want an electric heat solution, I also don't need a bunch of guys playing poker with a lot of hot air AND a methane gas solution.

What's the matter, afraid you might, "Get blowed up sir." ?



Steve

Thermal underwear. Keeps my "breezeway" warm.