quote Originally posted by Old Lar: The current administration wants to insure the proper indoctrination of your children from pre kindergarten through college with their propaganda media, just like they do in other socialist countries. Get used to the change.

It works.

Just look how kids and our society teaches Christianity and how many adults believe that faith. Other places in the world do it to with their religious faith.

We will have many people believing (we have strong evidence of it now) that government with a centralized control economy with a generous welfare state is good. Because your kids are being taught by the government, they will naturally teach and indoctrinate to their advantage. So kids will grow into adults and will perpetuate and expand what government had taught them and will never question it and will hate those who oppose it.

[This message has been edited by Wichita (edited 02-15-2014).]

quote Originally posted by carnut122: Where did you get anything about Congress out of any of my posts on this topic?

From you when you said:

quote Originally posted by carnut122: So, you want to limit freedom of speech based on a factual statement?

I assumed that you knew freedom of speech is protected by the First Amendment, which specifically says Congress can make no laws restricting your freedom of speech.
If that assumption was incorrect, I apologize for the confusion. I'll try to be more clear in the future.

quote Originally posted by carnut122: So citizens do not have the right to bear arms in a state militia?

The question you should be asking based on the "summary" is whether or not citizens have the right to bear arms while NOT being in a state militia. If the "summary" alone is all you knew of the 2nd Amendment, how would you answer the question?

I still secretly hope you understand the difference between the meaning of the 2nd Amendment and the interpretation; and are just playing devil's advocate to give us all something to debate.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: It's alarming to think you see no problem with that text and are in a position to teach our nation's children.

quote Originally posted by pokeyfiero: Seriously? You are a teacher?

I give carnut122 much leeway here. Being a teacher ain't easy. Not only does he have to teach education, he has to educate kids on a variety of things their parents should have already done. Basically shape "damaged goods". On top of the time consuming demands of his job, limited resource material (many times indoctrination provided material), and developing his own flair to positively impact his students with ...

quote Originally posted by carnut122: My county hasn't adopted a textbook in about 6 years. Our math text-books are from 3 generations of state standards ago. My accelerated students are sometimes assigned work out of a textbook published 13 years ago. Every day I go in and put together 4 different lessons for my students. Very little of that is based on a textbook. I use virtually anything I can get my hands on that is relevant to what I want my students to learn. In other words, I'm so busy scrambling to find materials that I don't have time to read every word/problem in a book.

He has not said that this is a book that he uses. His busy professional life is probably equaled with a bust personal life, a busy social/community life, and he doesn't seem to have much time to waste on this forum. He did a quick rushed view of what was posted and made a comment.
I am never wrong. Once, I thought I was. I was mistaken, .
carnut, thanks for your service. You too Cooter, .

quote Originally posted by pokeyfiero: I ain't gots nuff smarts to get this hard stuff. Seriously? You are a teacher?

Never mind.

[This message has been edited by carnut122 (edited 02-16-2014).]

quote Originally posted by cliffw: His busy professional life is probably equaled with a bust personal life ...

EDIT
Busy personal life.
Although, many times our work life does impede upon our real life. Perhaps I was right.

quote Originally posted by cliffw: He has not said that this is a book that he uses. His busy professional life is probably equaled with a bust personal life, a busy social/community life, and he doesn't seem to have much time to waste on this forum. He did a quick rushed view of what was posted and made a comment. I am never wrong. Once, I thought I was. I was mistaken, . carnut, thanks for your service. You too Cooter, .

Cliff W-thanks for understanding what I wrote and not what others thought I wrote. I actually own guns and believe in the US citizens' rights to own guns under the second amendment. This post was quite interesting to read the reactions. My initial points were (and continue to be):
1. this is not a textbook
2. it was a literal summary of the second amendment
3. the original article was a call to action over what some harried teacher had manged to scrape together under budget cuts and an ever-changing curriculum
4. banning the book goes against the First Amendment of the constitution

I'm retiring next year because the last person who gets a say on what happens in my classroom is me. This thread more than proves that.

[This message has been edited by carnut122 (edited 02-16-2014).]

quote Originally posted by carnut122: My initial points wers

Seriously ? Your a teacher ?
I guess you are not a spelling teacher, .

quote Originally posted by Flamberge: The question you should be asking based on the "summary" is whether or not citizens have the right to bear arms while NOT being in a state militia. If the "summary" alone is all you knew of the 2nd Amendment, how would you answer the question? I still secretly hope you understand the difference between the meaning of the 2nd Amendment and the interpretation; and are just playing devil's advocate to give us all something to debate.

I never once said that I disagreed with a citizen's right to bear arms; but others put that yoke upon me. Yes, I knew I was "poking the bear." I was pointing out that one teacher's decision to use what may have been the best source available to that teacher, might not actually be a need for people outside of the school district to mobilize to ban a book which would be counter to the first amendment of the same Constitution used to justify banning to book. I guess it was easier for people to categorize me instead of think about what I was saying. I always know they have no argument when they have to make personal attacks instead of deal with what I'm writing.

quote Originally posted by Wichita: It works. Just look how kids and our society teaches Christianity and how many adults believe that faith. Other places in the world do it to with their religious faith. We will have many people believing (we have strong evidence of it now) that government with a centralized control economy with a generous welfare state is good. Because your kids are being taught by the government, they will naturally teach and indoctrinate to their advantage. So kids will grow into adults and will perpetuate and expand what government had taught them and will never question it and will hate those who oppose it.

So our resident Christian basher complains AGAIN. Have you taken your kids out of PRIVATE CHRISTIAN SCHOOL yet?

quote Originally posted by carnut122: I never once said that I disagreed with a citizen's right to bear arms; but others put that yoke upon me. Yes, I knew I was "poking the bear." I was pointing out that one teacher's decision to use what may have been the best source available to that teacher, might not actually be a need for people outside of the school district to mobilize to ban a book which would be counter to the first amendment of the same Constitution used to justify banning to book. I guess it was easier for people to categorize me instead of think about what I was saying. I always know they have no argument when they have to make personal attacks instead of deal with what I'm writing.

Thanks for the reply. My intent wasn't to personally attack you, and my argument had nothing to do with the textbook, freedom of speech, your qualifications as a teacher, etc.

The thing that brought me out of my usual lurking mode is that you keep saying it is a good summary of what is written when it clearly is not.

I don't consider this political, by the way, and feel it is every American's responsibility to have a firm and clear understanding as to what their rights and duties include. Whether they lean left or right is irrelevant if they fail to grasp the difference between a right to own a gun as long as they are in a government militia versus the right to own a gun because they are an American.

The summary put a requirement as an "if" statement, instead of the more correct "and" the citizen may also choose to be in a militia.

Anyway, thanks for hearing me out. Keeping bearing those arms and teaching those kids, or arming those kids and teaching those bears.

quote Originally posted by Boostdreamer: So our resident Christian basher complains AGAIN. Have you taken your kids out of PRIVATE CHRISTIAN SCHOOL yet?

Dude! Were you not the one that started a thread about saving my soul and you made a personal commitment to post and pray for me every day, but then you gave up after a few days.

Sorry man, but I can't really take you seriously.

Stay angry as you represent the typical hypocritical Christian. Live long and prosper.

quote Originally posted by Wichita: Stay angry as you represent the typical hypocritical Christian.

Six in one, half a dozen in the other.
Government Christian schools bad, private Christian school good.

quote Originally posted by Wichita: Dude! Were you not the one that started a thread about saving my soul and you made a personal commitment to post and pray for me every day, but then you gave up after a few days. Sorry man, but I can't really take you seriously. Stay angry as you represent the typical hypocritical Christian. Live long and prosper.

Do you mean the thread about the idea to pray for you? The "pray for me" idea which was YOURS? The thread that I discussed with you and you agreed to? The thread that went on for 15 pages of comments? The thread that lasted over a month? Is that the thread you're talking about? Is that the one that makes it hard for you to take me seriously? Is that the one you're saying I quit after "a few days"? Whatever.

I quit after I found out you were happy with your current religion. When you posted that you were praying to Satan I knew you weren't a lost soul needing guidance, you belonged to the other side. Big difference.

Besides, you didn't take me seriously from the beginning so have I lost anything new from you? Who is supposed to take you seriously when you CONSTANTLY bash anything Christian then make a conscious decision to spend your discretionary income on a private Christian school for your kids? You are the very personification of hypocritical.

quote Originally posted by Boostdreamer: So our resident Christian basher complains AGAIN. Have you taken your kids out of PRIVATE CHRISTIAN SCHOOL yet?

EDIT: Never mind. Back to lurking.

[This message has been edited by Flamberge (edited 02-16-2014).]

quote Originally posted by Flamberge: The thing that brought me out of my usual lurking mode is that you keep saying it is a good summary of what is written when it clearly is not. I don't consider this political, by the way, and feel it is every American's responsibility to have a firm and clear understanding as to what their rights and duties include. Whether they lean left or right is irrelevant if they fail to grasp the difference between a right to own a gun as long as they are in a government militia versus the right to own a gun because they are an American.

This is my position as well, and the reason for my post examining the grammar of the amendment ( in this thread ). The Second Amendment does not specify that you can only bear arms while serving as a member of a militia. But the summary in the book seems to imply that. And let's be honest here, kids reading that summary are probably going to assume that's what it means. So the summary, in my opinion, is dubious at best and blatantly misleading at worst.

And while the book may not be a textbook per se, it is a school book. In the photo of the page, it's clearly visible that it's an exam prep book for an advanced placement class. Kids reading this book are going to assume the information in it is factual and reliable, since the teacher assigned it to them as study material.

[This message has been edited by Blacktree (edited 02-16-2014).]

quote Originally posted by Blacktree: This is my position as well, and the reason for my post examining the grammar of the amendment ( in this thread ). The Second Amendment does not specify that you can only bear arms while serving as a member of a militia. But the summary in the book seems to imply that. And let's be honest here, kids reading that summary are probably going to assume that's what it means. So the summary, in my opinion, is dubious at best and blatantly misleading at worst. And while the book may not be a textbook per se, it is a school book. In the photo of the page, it's clearly visible that it's an exam prep book for an advanced placement class. Kids reading this book are going to assume the information in it is factual and reliable, since the teacher assigned it to them as study material.

When the metaphoric phrase, "Curiosity killed the cat." is what most people regurgitate, not knowing that it is missing "but satisfaction brought it back." The Shakespearean origin is "Care killed the cat." Implying that not being curious or taking risk or fending for yourself will kill you.

Basically in time, the message becomes distorted and the original meaning becomes inverted. This is what the author unknowingly or knowingly did to the 2nd Amendment and it will teach the pupil a different meaning.

quote Originally posted by Wichita: To me you are not a real Christian.

It takes one to know one. Oh, wait ... .

quote Originally posted by Wichita: LOL. The other side. To me you are a CINO, a poser if you like. To me you are not a real Christian. Go ahead and try to bring my children into your foaming from the mouth rants, but really it is none of your Jesus damn business.

And your OPINION of what I am or what a "real" Christian is supposed to be is important to me how?? You're pathetic.

[This message has been edited by Boostdreamer (edited 02-16-2014).]

quote Originally posted by Wichita: Go ahead and try to bring my children into your foaming from the mouth rants, but really it is none of your Jesus damn business.

Yeah, the kid thing is common sense. Off limits in my honest opinion. Heck, even in my dishonest opinion children should not be involved in quarrels. You weren't attacking his kids directly, but even their use in this situation bothers me.

quote Originally posted by Tony Kania: Yeah, the kid thing is common sense. Off limits in my honest opinion. Heck, even in my dishonest opinion children should not be involved in quarrels. You weren't attacking his kids directly, but even their use in this situation bothers me.

It has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with the kids. That is clear to anyone. It is about him and his mouth. He jumps on any thread and spews his hate about all things Christian but in his private life, he embraces the things he publicly denounces. I just want to understand that decision. By the way, this is info that Wichita made public on this very forum so it is in play because he made it so.

[This message has been edited by Boostdreamer (edited 02-16-2014).]

quote Originally posted by Tony Kania: Yeah, the kid thing is common sense. Off limits in my honest opinion. Heck, even in my dishonest opinion children should not be involved in quarrels. You weren't attacking his kids directly, but even their use in this situation bothers me.

Then go pound sand.
He did not attack Wichita's kids. He attacked Wichita's choice of schooling for his kids as being hypocritical, being Wichita railed against Christian values in gooberment schools.

quote Originally posted by Boostdreamer: It has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with the kids. That is clear to anyone. It is about him and his mouth. He jumps on any thread and spews his hate about all things Christian but in his private life, he embraces the things he publicly denounces. I just want to understand that decision. By the way, this is info that Wichita made public on this very forum so it is in play because he made it so.

Again. My answer is; it's none of your Jesus damn business. So STFU on it already.

quote Originally posted by Wichita: Again. My answer is; it's none of your Jesus damn business. So STFU on it already.

It became everyone's business when you made it public here. However, I'll make a deal with you. If you can STFU about your opinion of Christianity, I can do likewise about your choices of schools.

[This message has been edited by Boostdreamer (edited 02-16-2014).]

quote Originally posted by cliffw: Then go pound sand. He did not attack Wichita's kids. He attacked Wichita's choice of schooling for his kids as being hypocritical, being Wichita railed against Christian values in gooberment schools.

OK. I would rather pound my pud, but that is for another thread.

Boostdreamer... I apologize. I read the worlds on my phone while sitting in a waiting room. I CLEARLY misunderstood them. Once again, I apologize, and I misread the words that you wrote.

Lost in internet translation. Very sorry, and you DID NOT attack his children. I do not know where the **** I got that from?

quote Originally posted by Boostdreamer: It became everyone's business when you made it public here. However, I'll make a deal with you. If you can STFU about your opinion of Christianity, I can do likewise about your choices of schools.

It doesn't matter what was stated. You are inquiring more by asking why and you have done so multiple times. I'm saying it isn't none of your business.

I don't ask you why you are an angry poser Christian. Me? I could care less. My children is NOT your business so keep them away from your rants.

quote Originally posted by Wichita: It doesn't matter what was stated. You are inquiring more by asking why and you have done so multiple times. I'm saying it isn't none of your business. I don't ask you why you are an angry poser Christian. Me? I could care less. My children is NOT your business so keep them away from your rants.

Bite me, whine baby.

[This message has been edited by Boostdreamer (edited 02-16-2014).]

quote Originally posted by Tony Kania: OK. I would rather pound my pud, but that is for another thread.

No offense meant.
Puleeese, don't tell us that just before you are done that you are gonna yell "oh gawd", .

quote Originally posted by Boostdreamer: @ Tony, you have a good heart, brother. I know that about you. Like I told you the other day, we're good.

Yeah, but I did mistake you r words, and honestly feel like an ass about what I wrote. I am not always right, but often apologetic.

quote Originally posted by Boostdreamer: Bite me, whine baby.

Remember when a prayer was sent to Lucifer to take your soul? Looks like that happened, because you have not displayed any Christian values, in fact borderline child stalker on the verge of illegality.

You will go to hell. LOL!

I hate to be you, because Lucifer plans to make things a total mess. Good luck with that. LOL.

quote Originally posted by Wichita: Remember when a prayer was sent to Lucifer to take your soul? Looks like that happened, because you have not displayed any Christian values, in fact borderline child stalker on the verge of illegality. You will go to hell. LOL! I hate to be you, because Lucifer plans to make things a total mess. Good luck with that. LOL.

Whine, whine, whine!!!

quote Originally posted by Boostdreamer: Bite me, whine baby.

quote Originally posted by Wichita: Remember when a prayer was sent to Lucifer to take your soul? Looks like that happened, because you have not displayed any Christian values,

Kind of like a lot of the "Christians" I see around here.
Setting all dressed and proper on Sunday to make a showing to their peers, then return to their pathetic, azzhole selves the rest of the week.
I have met very few, and I mean VERY FEW people I would possibly consider a "Christian".

Kevin

quote Originally posted by Lambo nut: Kind of like a lot of the "Christians" I see around here. Setting all dressed and proper on Sunday to make a showing to their peers, then return to their pathetic, azzhole selves the rest of the week. I have met very few, and I mean VERY FEW people I would possibly consider a "Christian". Kevin

Neither you nor Wichita have any idea what a Christian is or is supposed to be. In fact, many Christians aren't clear on how they are supposed to act. Here's a hint... Christians don't have to take your crap! We often do, more really than we should. That is where these problems come from. You get a free ride on the "say anything about Christians" train and when it finally stops, you get butt hurt that one stands up for himself or his faith.

Everyone is entitled to his opinion. I'll be the first to say it and I spent 4 years in the uniform doing my part to make sure you COULD have your own opinion. I want everyone to feel free to express their opinion in a manner that is civil and respectful of the other members and opinions represented here. Wichita has a LOOOOONNNNNNGGGGGG history of not only stepping across that line, he runs sorties into Christian territory just to be a troll and spread his hate and contempt. There comes a time when people get tired of overbearing big-mouths. Apparently, that time has come.

Let's hear YOUR definition of "Christian"? Second, are you one?

quote Originally posted by Boostdreamer: Bite me, whine baby.

Expressing your opinion in a manner that is civil and respectful.....?

Just sayin'.

You and the devil worshipper might want to take your crap to PM. You're way off topic.

[This message has been edited by olejoedad (edited 02-17-2014).]