quote Originally posted by Boondawg: I agree, but how would not seeing the clock alleviate the compulsion or obsession? I think I just need to figure out how to let it (worry? fear?) go. I know people that sleep so hard they are shocked awake by the alarm clock, like they never expected it to go off at all. When they go to sleep, it seems they completely leave this plain of existence. When I sleep, I'm still fully in this plain...

It's about not satisfying the compulsion. If the clock is facing away from you, then you can't go through the whole "x number of hours before I have to get up" thing. And having it out of reach gives you incentive to not turn it so you can see it. If you can not feed the compulsion then eventually it will go away, you create a new habit. You might not start sleeping better right away, but you at least set the groundwork for better sleep. I would also look at my evening routines and try to create as much of a sleep-friendly pre-bedtime ritual that will promote better and more sound sleep. Like avoiding coffee and other stimulants, turn off the tv and other devices that trigger certain brain functions (like the computer, phone, etc.) There are also natural and herbal sleep aids that can assist with deepening sleep patterns.

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: I wake up every hour, look at the clock, and say "Only *blank* more hours before I have to get up.". I finally get tired of doing it at 4am and get up.

Dont have any clocks in your room. None you can see or reach. It doesnt do any good to see it. You know that feeling "sigh, gotta get up in bla bla hours now"? If you dont look at a clock you wont know, just let yourself think theres still tons of time to sleep. If you have an alarm set it wont matter what the real time was when you looked anyway. I even get up and use teh bathroom and tell myself not to look at the clock, and I dont look.

Also look up basic stuff to help you sleep, theres been a few threads hwere, make sure you arent eating wrong or too late, caffine too late, etc.
As long as there arent random noises etc or pain to wake me. I only have trouble sleeping if I'm super exited about something, or super worried, or had sugar or caffine too late. But even exictement or worry I usually get over.

its rare, and I'm not sure what it is with me, but if I know its going to be difficult to sleep, noisey or uncomfortable bed, or whatnot, if I take one tylenol I sleep better for about 6 hours. Wife even says I snore some. There must abe a discomfort that I dont even notice consciously, that gets alleviated.

* edit - DOH! Tajiguys post was hiding over on this page saying almost the same things!

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 02-10-2014).]

quote Originally posted by Taijiguy: It's about not satisfying the compulsion. If the clock is facing away from you, then you can't go through the whole "x number of hours before I have to get up" thing. And having it out of reach gives you incentive to not turn it so you can see it.

If I can't see the clock I will just get up and go look at it anyway, which will cause me to be FULLY awake.
If I just raise up and look at it at least I can get back to my strange semblance of sleep.

I have to figure a way to not care...

[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 02-10-2014).]

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: If I can't see the clock I will just get up and go look at it anyway, which will cause me to be FULLY awake. If I just raise up and look at it at least I can get back to my strange semblance of sleep. I have to figure a way to not care...

You don't have the self restraint to refuse yourself the "satisfaction" of looking at the time, even if it's inconvenient?

quote Originally posted by Taijiguy: You don't have the self restraint to refuse yourself the "satisfaction" of looking at the time, even if it's inconvenient?

My mind will keep me awake going over it again & again until I'm forced to just get up anyway.

Going over and over what?
What time it is?

Do you do that all during the day too? Check the time?

I don't understand why you are checking the time all thru the night..........

quote Originally posted by maryjane: I don't understand why you are checking the time all thru the night..........

To see if it's time to get up for work.
I already know it's weird, I just want it to stop.

I never did it working nightshift.

Ahh- you don't trust the alarm or your ability to hear it.
That's kinda normal I guess.

(i thought maybe you had some kind of weird phobia about the space/time continual actually stopping while you were dreaming about snortin coke off a supermodels butt)

quote Originally posted by maryjane: Ahh- you don't trust the alarm or your ability to hear it.

No, I don't use the alarm.

I think I'm just terrified i'll be late for work.
Like no one can depend on me, that I'm not really as good as everyone else.
Some weird psycho-mindfugg thing in my brain.

Makes a great employee, just not a very good sleeper.

[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 02-11-2014).]

Honestly it seems that you don't really want to do anything about it. A lot of great advise here and for whatever reason instead of any willingness to even try anything, it's just excuses why it won't work. Ultimately it will come down to what YOU are willing to do. It will probably be work on your part and it may not be easy, and it might get worse before it gets better. You don't seem like you're ready to do anything about it yet. And you won't until you're sick and tired of being sick and tired.

quote Originally posted by Taijiguy: Honestly it seems that you don't really want to do anything about it. A lot of great advise here and for whatever reason instead of any willingness to even try anything, it's just excuses why it won't work. You don't seem like you're ready to do anything about it yet.

Who sez I haven't tried any of this or aren't thinking about any of the advice I have received so far?

I'm just explaining to those that don't get it that it's not about looking at the clock.
It's about the compulsion to look at the clock.
In reality it's about obsessing over being late for work (or anything).

But your diagnosis seems to conclude that I have simply decided to stubbornly refuse to consider any change what-so-ever.
That is not true.
Blaming the location of the clock for me waking up every hour to check the time is like blaming the fridge for my over-eating...

The real question is how do I let go of my obsession with time while I sleep?
How do I let it wake me without my monitoring it?

I only want to sleep solid until it's time to get up.
I want my mind out of the equation.
I want to let it go.

I've seen hundreds do it.
It's not about the clock...

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: To see if it's time to get up for work. No, I don't use the alarm. How do I let it wake me without my monitoring it? .

Id say you set the alarm clock, with your cell phone alarm set 15 seconds later. A failsafe. Then you decide to trust it.

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: It's about the compulsion to look at the clock. .

If that isnt something related to a reason, such as above, then uit seems like we need more info?

quote Originally posted by 2.5: If that isnt something related to a reason, such as above, then uit seems like we need more info?

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: I think I'm just terrified i'll be late for work. Like no one can depend on me, that I'm not really as good as everyone else.

That's as close as I can get.
I'm no psychoanalyst, though.

[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 02-11-2014).]

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: Who sez I haven't tried any of this or aren't thinking about any of the advice I have received so far? I'm just explaining to those that don't get it that it's not about looking at the clock. It's about the compulsion to look at the clock. In reality it's about obsessing over being late for work (or anything). But your diagnosis seems to conclude that I have simply decided to stubbornly refuse to consider any change what-so-ever. That is not true. Blaming the location of the clock for me waking up every hour to check the time is like blaming the fridge for my over-eating... The real question is how do I let go of my obsession with time while I sleep? How do I let it wake me without my monitoring it? I only want to sleep solid until it's time to get up. I want my mind out of the equation. I want to let it go. I've seen hundreds do it. It's not about the clock...

I was simply drawing a conclusion based on your responses to the suggestions. If I was mistaken then I apologize, it just seemed that you were pretty summarily blowing off the suggestions you were being given.

And I disagree vehemently about it being about the clock. An alcoholic addresses their issues not only in terms of why they drink, they also stop buying alcohol. They don't try to figure out why and THEN stop drinking. They stop drinking FIRST, and then work on the whys, one day at a time. You might have obsessions about waking up and checking the time, but you seem to want to continue to make it easy to do the very thing you say you don't want to do. Metaphorically, you want to quit drinking, but you want to be able to have alcohol close at hand. Most obsessions are addressed by removing the focus of the obsession whenever possible.

[This message has been edited by Taijiguy (edited 02-11-2014).]

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: I think I'm just terrified i'll be late for work.

But a failsafe alarm doesnt cover that?

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 02-11-2014).]

No, but the clock is the physical (you see it) representation of time. It in itself is not the problem, it's the relief from the problem. You wake up in the middle of the night, look at the clock and are relieved to find it isn't time to get up and you haven't over slept and that information allows you to go back to sleep.

I think you said you don't use the alarm. Nothing wrong with using it--hundreds of millions of people do. Start setting it.
Practice getting used to relying on it by setting it and taking short naps on your off days, with the clock face beyond your view.
Slowly extend the time and resist the urge to check the time if you wake up. Just lay there even if you have to force yourself.
Your brain will get acclimatized to the idea that the alarm is your waking trigger, and--------that it is reliable.
Then start setting it to wake you at the right time when you go to bed at night, again with the clock face beyond your vision. If you awake in the middle of the night, do not get up. Lay there and accept that the device WILL get you up at the right time. It will take some time, but your mind will eventually accept that the alarm is reliable and you can trust it, but if you keep getting up to verify that it's still sleepytime, you will not ever break your current regimen.

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: .. Like no one can depend on me, that I'm not really as good as everyone else.

Being late for work would not make you ultimately inadequate, or less than others.

Maybe go over with us what you have done or tried, or thought about, or respond to some of the things you havent yet in this thread.
More data equals a more accurate answer really.

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 02-11-2014).]

quote Originally posted by Taijiguy: it just seemed that you were pretty summarily blowing off the suggestions you were being given.

I can assure you, it only seemed that way.
I never blow anything off.
I take everything in.

I don't believe anyone has yet asked if this behavior continues on my days off, or when I'm on vacation.
It does, but only casually, and without the same urgency.

At any rate, it's not really a big deal.
And once again my inability to express myself in a manner others can easily understand kinda' makes the whole sleep issue problem number 2...

But I did learn some thing's, so all is not lost.
Thanx everyone.

quote Originally posted by maryjane: No, but the clock is the physical (you see it) representation of time. It in itself is not the problem, it's the relief from the problem. You wake up in the middle of the night, look at the clock and are relieved to find it isn't time to get up and you haven't over slept and that information allows you to go back to sleep. I think you said you don't use the alarm. Nothing wrong with using it--hundreds of millions of people do. Start setting it. Practice getting used to relying on it by setting it and taking short naps on your off days, with the clock face beyond your view. Slowly extend the time and resist the urge to check the time if you wake up. Just lay there even if you have to force yourself. Your brain will get acclimatized to the idea that the alarm is your waking trigger, and--------that it is reliable. Then start setting it to wake you at the right time when you go to bed at night, again with the clock face beyond your vision. If you awake in the middle of the night, do not get up. Lay there and accept that the device WILL get you up at the right time. It will take some time, but your mind will eventually accept that the alarm is reliable and you can trust it, but if you keep getting up to verify that it's still sleepytime, you will not ever break your current regimen.

That makes perfect sense.
Thanx.