Suggesting double walled pipelines (like double hulled tankers)? A nightmare to build and maintain with no better guarantee in regards to wall/joint integrity than a single wall design. Xraying a double wall pipeline would be nearly impossible and finding the leak point doubly so. Fluid would fill the void up and might be contained, but finding the leak point would be very very difficult. We're talking about several thousands of miles, not thousands of feet like a well casing.
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For the 12 months through November 2013, the electricity produced from wind power in the United States amounted to 168.089 terawatt-hours, or 4.16% of all US generated electrical energy.[5]
On further research I can't find facts to back up my statement. I may (probably) owe a retraction of my statement. Sorry I hate giving out disinformation. I'm Not willing to give a blanket approval of pipeline safety in the area yet because I haven't found my original source and the sources that I did find seem to be industry originated. I'm not discounting industry reports.but they obviously have their bias just as the anti pipeline proponents do. Still trying to sort out facts from fiction. Thanks for your post Cliff. You always give me a look at it from the industry side that I believe is pretty unbiased. We are all subject to the influence of our information sources. I have previously stated my respect for you and it continues. Your positive rating from me is still firm and I can't imagine changing it.
It's all good! We're just having a discussion and I appreciate your thoughts.
Considering the many tens of thousands of miles of energy related pipelines in the US and Canada, the safety record is pretty good. Better than trucks for sure in the number of spills and accidents. (most recent figures I could quickly find--2001) http://www.pipeline101.com/overview/energy-pl.html
Originally posted by maryjane: Suggesting double walled pipelines (like double hulled tankers)?
As a mitigating solution, yes. Not that I suggest it is necessary or fail safe. Double hulled tankers may not have water tight compartments like submarines but there is always something one can do. There could be shut offs before and after the aquifer. The aquifer section could be pressure tested daily, if need be.
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Originally posted by maryjane: For the 12 months through November 2013, the electricity produced from wind power in the United States amounted to 168.089 terawatt-hours, or 4.16% of all US generated electrical energy.[5]
Thanks for that. About what I expected. Now the question of if it is continual and uninterrupted service might be of concern to those relying on it.
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Originally posted by dratts: Thanks for your post Cliff. You always give me a look at it from the industry side that I believe is pretty unbiased.
Yes, I am a saint, . My opinions are just heartfelt, as yours are, but they are opinions. Did you hear (?) ... Al Gore agrees with me. He thinks the way to curtail global warming is to eradicate man (to an extent). Bill Nye, "the Science Guy", agrees. Please read the Bill Nye link.
I've never seen any ocean going ship that did NOT have water tight compartments, including tankers. They are required by insurance companies and USCG regs before seaworthy certification can be signed off on or renewed. Even the ferries that run back and forth across the ship channel have them. There are always "shut offs" installed all along any pipeline. Look down any pipeline right of way and you will see the valve handles sticking up out of the ground. They are necessary for (if nothing else) pressure testing. In the case of Keystone, it is every 20 miles.
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Automatic Shut-off Valves Keystone XL Pipeline will be equipped with more automated shut-off valves placed at shorter intervals than most, if not all, other existing crude oil pipelines in the U.S. These shutoff valves will be placed every 20 miles along the pipeline route, and extra valves will also be placed, where required, to protect water crossings and other areas of higher consequence. They can be closed remotely on either side of the line, isolating a damaged area within minutes of detection.
There are about a dozen other impact studies from different state and federal agencies that are due out in the next 90 days. They will make no decision until those studies and reports are released and analyzed and balanced against each other and yes, probably won't make any decision until after mid term elections.
I was thinking the opposite. I think they are going to go ahead with it before the elections. I think further delays will cost the dem's seats being as this will only be a localized issue for certain states and districts this time around. I guess it could be played either way, I just hope they pick the losing road.
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12:20 PM
84fiero123 Member
Posts: 29950 From: farmington, maine usa Registered: Oct 2004
Suggesting double walled pipelines (like double hulled tankers)? A nightmare to build and maintain with no better guarantee in regards to wall/joint integrity than a single wall design. Xraying a double wall pipeline would be nearly impossible and finding the leak point doubly so. Fluid would fill the void up and might be contained, but finding the leak point would be very very difficult. We're talking about several thousands of miles, not thousands of feet like a well casing.
[QUOTE]For the 12 months through November 2013, the electricity produced from wind power in the United States amounted to 168.089 terawatt-hours, or 4.16% of all US generated electrical energy.[5]
Not really Don I have been involved with those types of pipe lines and they are not that bad to build, we just welded the inside pipe, X-rayed it and built the outside pipe and X-rayed it and then sliped one inside the other.
Steve
------------------ Technology is great when it works, and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.
[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 02-03-2014).]
One of the elephants in the Keystone china shop are the owners of the 2nd largest rail tank car manufacturer in the country, that happens to be an Obama supporter.. Another is the owner of the nation's 2nd largest rail system that moves those tank cars of crude out of the Bakken Shale in North Dakota, that also happens to be an Obama supporter in both words and financial donations.. Another is the guy that became part owner of Suncor, one of the big players in the Alberta oil sands producers and pipelines in Aug of last year, and he too has been a very vocal supporter of President Obama. Yet another is owner of an existing pipeline that now carries crude from Bakken to regional refineries. Still another is the man that recently acquired Conoco Phillip's pipeline flow improver business and he too is in favor with the resident at the white house. Another is the guy that upped his stake in one of the companies that will refine Bakken Shale and Alberta Sands crude to $3.45 billion--Exxonmobil. This person also has been to the white house in the last few years and has publicly appeared with President Obama.
Not really Don I have been involved with those types of pipe lines and they are not that bad to build, we just welded the inside pipe, X-rayed it and built the outside pipe and X-rayed it and then sliped one inside the other.
Steve
How many thousand miles was it?
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01:41 PM
2.5 Member
Posts: 43235 From: Southern MN Registered: May 2007
No, I forget the name, but Buffet has already pretty much named his successor and it's not a family member. It's his closest adviser and architect of most of his recent acquisitions.
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Buffett once commented, "I want to give my kids just enough so that they would feel that they could do anything, but not so much that they would feel like doing nothing".[118]
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02:06 PM
PFF
System Bot
84fiero123 Member
Posts: 29950 From: farmington, maine usa Registered: Oct 2004
Originally posted by gtjoe: According to this calculator that claims to use the same consumer price index data from the bls. That chart is bs. According to their calculations something that was 1.84 in 2008 should be 1.99 adjusted for inflation http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/
Never let facts get in the way of government misinformation. Not only are you right in the calculations, gas (and food) is not used to calculate inflation.
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07:33 AM
84fiero123 Member
Posts: 29950 From: farmington, maine usa Registered: Oct 2004
Never let facts get in the way of government misinformation. Not only are you right in the calculations, gas (and food) is not used to calculate inflation.
Of course not that would make to much sense, seeing you need gas and food in order to live and work, got to keep those out of the equation.
. My opinions are just heartfelt, as yours are, but they are opinions.
