I know a lot of people here have been going to larger tire sizes than our cars come with and are not legal I think.
inspection standards are for safety in most cases, sure there are some places that do emission standards but I am taking about safety standards right now. is it really a safe thing to put a 17" tire on a car built for 15" tires? just how much different does it make the handling characteristics of the car, the alignment, and more.
I know everyone is going to say it makes them look better, makes them have better mileage, on and on and on. but is it legal?
sure you may get a sticker, but is it really a legal sticker? look at your tire placard on the door, it shows the sizes that you got at the factory, now all states are not the same, I know that, but they do all have restrictions on what you can change those tire sizes to, here in Maine it is 2 tire sizes ether way I think, but that is only width, not height. I don't believe you are even allowed to go larger or smaller in that size, not sure but want to see what you all think and Know about your own state inspection legal tire changes. I see more and more people changing to larger tires and thinking its OK to do so, I don't think it is, and if it does pass your states inspection just how, especially when it is the guys job to make sure your car is really within those states standards, their license to inspect is on the line if they pass it with the wrong size tires.
Steve
------------------ Technology is great when it works, and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.
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11:23 AM
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Doug85GT Member
Posts: 9832 From: Sacramento CA USA Registered: May 2003
I think you mean wheel size and not rim size. You can have the same wheel diameter with different sizes of rims by increasing or decreasing the tire side wall.
In California the law is that wheels are not allowed to protrude past the fender/quarter panel. So if you want wheels that stick out past that, then get wider body panels.
As a practical matter, you want wheels that fit in the wheel well and don't rub when turning or hitting a bump. A lot depends on the vehicle since some have more room than others.
If Maine has some law about wheel size, then you have your guidance. IMO it is silly if they limit your choices to just two sizes larger. There are a lot of things that car enthusiasts can do to fit the wheels they want under their car.
I think you mean wheel size and not rim size. You can have the same wheel diameter with different sizes of rims by increasing or decreasing the tire side wall.
In California the law is that wheels are not allowed to protrude past the fender/quarter panel. So if you want wheels that stick out past that, then get wider body panels.
As a practical matter, you want wheels that fit in the wheel well and don't rub when turning or hitting a bump. A lot depends on the vehicle since some have more room than others.
If Maine has some law about wheel size, then you have your guidance. IMO it is silly if they limit your choices to just two sizes larger. There are a lot of things that car enthusiasts can do to fit the wheels they want under their car.
But is it legal? that's the real question, we are limited to 2 tire sizes each way, wider or narrower I believe so you could conceivably go to sizes wider or narrower I believe, would have to look at the inspection standards again, and with my memory that's iffy if I would remember it after I read it.
plus changing the height of the tire also I would think changes alignment and handling characteristics.
Steve
------------------ Technology is great when it works, and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.
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11:39 AM
84fiero123 Member
Posts: 29950 From: farmington, maine usa Registered: Oct 2004
Tire, body lift law causes confusion Auto shops, other businesses say rule forces them to turn away customers
BANGOR - The state is doing a lousy job of educating vehicle owners about a year-old tire regulation, according to staff at many Maine tire companies and other industry businesses, and it is forcing them to turn customers away."Just this morning I had three customers leave very agitated because they wanted to put on bigger tires than what the manufacturer recommends," Al Belanger, owner of Tires, Batteries and Accessories Inc. of Bangor, said Saturday. "Everybody's blood pressure goes up, and they say, 'It's my car and I'll do what I want with it.' It makes it hard for us to do business. The normal public does not know about this," he said.
The Department of Public Safety vehicle inspection law, passed in 1993, made it illegal to raise or lower the body or suspension or change the tire size of vehicles with rear-wheel or all-wheel anti-lock brakes.
The new regulation, approved in September 2003, states that if the tire rim size of a vehicle is altered, the overall circumference of the tire must be within the vehicle manufacturer's specifications in order to get an inspection sticker."You can actually put on larger-sized rims as long as the circumference of the tire stays the same," Sgt. Donald Pomelow of the Maine State Police traffic division said Tuesday. "The 1993 law states that anti-lock break vehicles cannot be altered. That means no suspension, or body lifts. This [new law] kind of brought it up to date to allow after-market rims and tires."
Vehicles with anti-lock brakes have a speed sensor that is affected by a change in tire size or vehicle height, Pomelow said, which could affect safetyand prompted the law.
"There is no manufacturer that recommends a lift kit on any of their vehicles, and even the brake manufacturers are adamant that larger tires and lift kits should not be allowed," he said. "According to national safety reports, vehicles with larger tires and lift kits are more prone to rollovers and longer braking distances because of the larger tires."
Staff at Hammond Street Gulf service station, which inspects vehicles, and VIP Discount Auto Parts on the Odlin Road, which sells tires and does inspections, both in Bangor, agreed with Belanger that people just are not educated about the laws.
"I've had to tell them we can't put them [larger tires] on," VIP manager Todd Dumond said on Monday. "What we try to do is find a tire that meets the circumference of the vehicle."
He estimates he turns away five or six customers a week because they don't understand the law.
Del Harriman, a vehicle inspector and Hammond Street Gulf manager, said she must educate customers on a daily basis about the law."We send people away every day," she said on Monday. "Sometimes it's ten to twenty a day, but normally it's five or six."
TBA employee Eddie Pinkham said there have been lifted vehicles on the roads for years. He said part of the problem is that older vehicles without anti-lock brakes can be altered.
"Look around town; I can probably name 20 people who have their bodies lifted," he said.
Now, however, between 80 percent and 90 percent of vehicles on the road have anti-lock brakes, and therefore, more vehicles come under the provisions of the tire laws.
Lt. Chris Grotton of the Maine State Police traffic division said confusion over the law has resulted in less enforcement over the last decade. This year, however, the department actively has tried to reduce the number of illegal vehicles on the road.
"Over the last year or so we've taken a different approach and have taken a more robust stance," he said. "We've gone through the state and looked at all the [inspection] stations to make sure they have the right tools and manuals."
Educating law enforcement is another key to enforcing the law, Grotton said.
"One of the things we're doing is creating a training piece to increase knowledge of what's allowed and what's not," he said. "We need clearer laws.
"Not all police officers are mechanics, and I think we need to work for regulations and laws that are easier for law enforcement, mechanics and the general public to understand," he said.
Drivers who change or alter their vehicles after receiving an inspection sticker could face a fine of up to $500 and up to 30 days in jail or both. They also could face a $132 fine for a defective motor vehicle. Inspection stations that issue illegal inspection sticker.
from a licensed Maine auto inspection station that sells tires about the laws for tires. some tire stores don't care about inspections just making a sale.
from the state regs,
6. Wheels. If the rim size has been altered, the overall diameter of the wheel with the tire must be within the vehicle manufacturer's specifications.
Steve
------------------ Technology is great when it works, and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.
[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 09-30-2013).]
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11:49 AM
Khw Member
Posts: 11139 From: South Weber, UT. U.S.A. Registered: Jun 2008
I think you will find it varies state to state based on their laws. For example my sister in Cali could not pass inspection with the aftermarket low pro tires she had on her Focus. Here in Utah I can change wheel size as much as I want, so long as the new tires have the same or better weight rating as the standard size. So yes it "can" be legal but then again it may not be. All depends on the laws in your state/county/city.
My neon with 40 series passes inspection because of weight handling and our Mazda had an oddball size that was hard to locate. We went with the next size up, so slightly wider tread but still same or better weight handling. According to the tire guy and what I read on the net, that's a common thing to do with our mazdas as early models had the oddball size and later models have the more common size we are using.
[This message has been edited by Khw (edited 09-30-2013).]
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11:51 AM
84fiero123 Member
Posts: 29950 From: farmington, maine usa Registered: Oct 2004
I think you will find it varies state to state based on their laws. For example my sister in Cali could not pass inspection with the aftermarket low pro tires she had on her Focus. Here in Utah I can change wheel size as much as I want, so long as the new tires have the same or better weight rating as the standard size. So yes it "can" be legal but then again it may not be. All depends on the laws in your state/county/city.
My neon with 40 series passes inspection because of weight handling and our Mazda had an oddball size that was hard to locate. We went with the next size up, so slightly wider tread but still same or better weight handling. According to the tire guy and what I read on the net, that's a common thing to do with our madras as early models had the oddball size and later models have the more common size we are using.
I know it varies form state to state but I thought it would be a helpful for people in their respective states to know just what those laws are before buying tiers that wouldn't pass inspections or that shouldn't have because of their states laws. it helps if you are going to a tire store that is also an inspection station as well in person and they help with your selection of the right tire for your car. but with all the online tire stores we have now you can buy a size that may or may not be legal in your state.
Steve
------------------ Technology is great when it works, and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't
I had a tire place send me down the road because they wouldnt put 15 inch tires on my 85 because I came in with 13s I was happy to give my money to someone else.
Now I just take the rim in and get the tires put on.
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12:20 PM
84fiero123 Member
Posts: 29950 From: farmington, maine usa Registered: Oct 2004
I had a tire place send me down the road because they wouldnt put 15 inch tires on my 85 because I came in with 13s I was happy to give my money to someone else.
Now I just take the rim in and get the tires put on.
Ah see this is what I am talking about, but is it legal? obviously not in your case did the car pass a state inspection after?
Steve
------------------ Technology is great when it works, and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.
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12:23 PM
rogergarrison Member
Posts: 49601 From: A Western Caribbean Island/ Columbus, Ohio Registered: Apr 99
They call matching lower profile tires to bigger rims 'Plus Sizing' here. You want the diameter or the package close to stock anyway so trans shifts, speedo work correct anyway. Wider tires dont affect anything except maybe ride and traction, so Ive never seen a law limiting width. Ohio, as most states, I think really only say the the entire tire must remain inside the fender lip on at least the top 1/2 of the tire. It dont apply much to lower 1/2 because of the way some sides curve under where a large part of the tire tread is sticking out past the fender.
Ah see this is what I am talking about, but is it legal? obviously not in your case did the car pass a state inspection after?
Steve
According to the shop no its not legal. No inspection in Florida so I didn't have an issue. Back when we did have inspections they were just safety inspections. So tire tread and safety equipment.
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12:32 PM
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Raydar Member
Posts: 41141 From: Carrollton GA. Out in the... country. Registered: Oct 1999
The new regulation, approved in September 2003, states that if the tire rim size of a vehicle is altered, the overall circumference of the tire must be within the vehicle manufacturer's specifications in order to get an inspection sticker."You can actually put on larger-sized rims as long as the circumference of the tire stays the same," ...
"I've had to tell them we can't put them [larger tires] on," VIP manager Todd Dumond said on Monday. "What we try to do is find a tire that meets the circumference of the vehicle."
... 6. Wheels. If the rim size has been altered, the overall diameter of the wheel with the tire must be within the vehicle manufacturer's specifications.
That was a major consideration when I replaced my wheels/tires, and not a bad idea. Even though I went from 15s to 17s, I chose tires that are very close to the original rolling diameter (circumference) as the originals. Mostly to keep the speedometer somewhere close to accurate. I also wanted to keep the front to rear width ratio (stagger) similar. Hence the 215/45 and 235/45 split.
------------------ Raydar 88 Formula IMSA Fastback. 4.9, NVG T550 Praise the Lowered!
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12:50 PM
V8 Vega Member
Posts: 508 From: Sylmar Calif a part of LA Registered: Jun 2007
Put the bigger tires on after you pass the safety inspection and keep your stock wheels for the next inspection. Of coarse that might invite cops pulling you over and while there at it give you a speeding ticket along with the wheels ticket. We don't have safety inspections in California thank goodness and never will because the illegal aliens all vote for Democrats so their a protected class and their junkey cars would never pass. Why do you think Democrats are so against voter ID. We do have smog test and I have heard of in extreme cases where guys have a real hopped up engine and put the stock engine back in to pass the test and then the hot rod engine back for two years. I have heard of cops having kids with Civics open the hood to look for illegal headers, intakes, cam timing gears, etc or a Integra engine.
This is kind of an irrelevant question to us that live in one of the 30 states that don't require safety inspections...
Not really, well the passing safety inspections, but safety wise, I never thought those lower profile sidewalls were right for road conditions as they have less sidewall to absorb irregular road surfaces think construction zones, pot holes.
so its not really irrelevant it is a safety thing.
Steve
------------------ Technology is great when it works, and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.
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01:05 PM
jaskispyder Member
Posts: 21510 From: Northern MI Registered: Jun 2002
Not really, well the passing safety inspections, but safety wise, I never thought those lower profile sidewalls were right for road conditions as they have less sidewall to absorb irregular road surfaces think construction zones, pot holes.
so its not really irrelevant it is a safety thing.
Steve
Low profile tire quality varies also. There are low profile run flats that have stiff sidewalls. There is also the quality of the rim. I wouldn't say low profile tires are bad, but it is more about the quality of the materials, and running the correct air pressure (and let's not forget about rim quality).
Low profile tire quality varies also. There are low profile run flats that have stiff sidewalls. There is also the quality of the rim. I wouldn't say low profile tires are bad, but it is more about the quality of the materials, and running the correct air pressure (and let's not forget about rim quality).
Let's not forget they have been standard from the factory on many cars for a LONG time now.
No inspections where I live. I know from living on the east coast that they really really look for rust over there.
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02:05 PM
rogergarrison Member
Posts: 49601 From: A Western Caribbean Island/ Columbus, Ohio Registered: Apr 99
Ive talked to quite a few car guys from Pa and you apparently cant register cars with bigger than like 3" rust holes. It can have surface rust, but no penetration. I guess any fix is OK as long as hole is covered...pop rivet a metal patch, metal tape, etc.
Here in Ohio, on the other hand, I see cars with bumpers falling off and pickups with the fenders flapping and the beds just sitting on the rails (not fastened down...mounts rusted off). We see lots of duct tape, wire and rope cruising on the interstates.
[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 09-30-2013).]
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04:57 PM
Patrick Member
Posts: 38455 From: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada Registered: Apr 99
I brought an '88 Formula up from Washington State recently and it had to pass the Out of Province Vehicle Inspection before I could register and insure it. One of the things the shop tried to fail me on was the fact that I had (temporarily) put on 215/60/14 wheels and tires. The shop owner insisted I had to have the exact same size tires and wheels as it states on the driver's door sticker. It wasn't until I provided proof to the shop owner that the '87 Fiero SE V6 (basically the same car, just a year older) originally came from the factory with 215/60/14 tires that he let it go.
If you think that's bad, a mechanic at another shop told me he would fail the Formula because it had a fiberglass hood! It was the factory hood painted flat black!
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05:20 PM
spark1 Member
Posts: 11159 From: Benton County, OR Registered: Dec 2002
If you think that's bad, a mechanic at another shop told me he would fail the Formula because it had a fiberglass hood! It was the factory hood painted flat black!
Now, thats funny. I assume all states, like Ohio, consider anything that was factory built and sold in the US as a complete car, completely legal. Used to be headlites HAD to be sealed beam headlites period, and NO covers like XKE and GT40. European headlites were illegal in the US, Mercedes is a prime example...the 4 headlite SLs were only built for the US market. Any headlite that used a replaceable bulb (other than a sealed beam bulb) was Illegal. Lincoln Mark series was the one that bust that bubble by making euro style headlites with a plastic lens around 84 (I think). Everyone followed and there are hardly any vehicles with sealed beams anymore. Would that mechanic also fail a newer Lincoln, Cadillac, Expedition, etc that all have plastic hoods. In Ohio too, whatever was legal for the year of manufacture, it also currently legal. That means 30s cars with one tail light or no turn signals is legal. Cars built before seat belts (50s) do not require them, and 60s cars with no shoulder belts do not either. Even dual outside mirrors were options till at least into the 70s. My Dodge only had drivers side. A lot of current laws are really just open to interpretation. Window tinting is illegal here darker than 35%, but I see black ones every day. It is also illegal for bumpers to be more than 4" off from published stock height....unenforced. The cops actually carry a book with car/truck factory specs and a tape measure. Technically, EVERY car with 22" rims is in violation of the current law.
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05:40 PM
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Patrick Member
Posts: 38455 From: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada Registered: Apr 99
Now, thats funny... Would that mechanic also fail a newer Lincoln, Cadillac, Expedition, etc that all have plastic hoods.
This mechanic was a relatively young guy who had probably never worked on a Fiero in his life. He was trying to "impress" me with how well he knew the "rules". He also wanted me to replace the decklid with one that didn't have a rear wing. I think he was convinced that the wing had been added. I informed him that's how the Formula came from the factory.
Needless to say, I didn't take the Formula to that particular shop for the actual inspection. Their mechanic would never have been satisfied.
Patrick, so what did you get and what did you pay? I looked at the other forum sections but didn't find a thread. I miss my formula and frequently look at them on craigslist, sold her about a year and a half ago.
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05:59 PM
Patrick Member
Posts: 38455 From: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada Registered: Apr 99
But it's OK to use hydrocarbon refrigerants in Canadian cars?
Well, there's only about a half dozen cars in Canada with A/C.
When an A/C equipped car is imported into Canada, an extra $100 "environment" fee is charged. That pissed me off as I didn't even want A/C in the Formula, and I've since removed it from the car. I didn't want all that dead weight slowing me down at autocross.
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06:02 PM
rogergarrison Member
Posts: 49601 From: A Western Caribbean Island/ Columbus, Ohio Registered: Apr 99
The tip to those in those states, you should carry a copy of the window sticker, or advertisements illustrating the car from the manufacturer in the glove box. I think Id have had some fun with that mechanic to show how actually dumb he was. You went somewhere else anyway so no harm making him the idiot.
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06:06 PM
84fiero123 Member
Posts: 29950 From: farmington, maine usa Registered: Oct 2004
Originally posted by rogergarrison: In Ohio too, whatever was legal for the year of manufacture, it also currently legal. That means 30s cars with one tail light or no turn signals is legal. Cars built before seat belts (50s) do not require them, and 60s cars with no shoulder belts do not either. Even dual outside mirrors were options till at least into the 70s. My Dodge only had drivers side. A lot of current laws are really just open to interpretation. Window tinting is illegal here darker than 35%, but I see black ones every day. It is also illegal for bumpers to be more than 4" off from published stock height....unenforced. The cops actually carry a book with car/truck factory specs and a tape measure. Technically, EVERY car with 22" rims is in violation of the current law.
That is the way it is here in Maine as well, especially for antiques, What ever was available on the car the year it was made is allowed, now we did have some trouble getting that antique plate at our town hall last year, the clerk said the car had to be one color, our hood and one fender and frt. bumper are all off our 84 are white and the rest of the car is yellow. I don't think she realized the fender and rest were all Fiero parts from an earlier Fiero. I did put a regular frt. bumper on instead of the ground effects bumper the SE calls for but with the way our roads and driveway are I was afraid the lower frt. bumper would get damaged real quick. So rather than spend the money on a bumper that would get damaged I used the one of our 84. so technically it was all Fiero. but the one thing the antique plate does give us is the option to not have to have a safety inspection.
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:
If you think that's bad, a mechanic at another shop told me he would fail the Formula because it had a fiberglass hood! It was the factory hood painted flat black!
I wonder what he would say about a corvette being entirely made of fiberglass.
Some people shouldn't have inspection licenses.
Steve
------------------ Technology is great when it works, and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.
[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 09-30-2013).]
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06:11 PM
Patrick Member
Posts: 38455 From: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada Registered: Apr 99
Patrick, so what did you get and what did you pay? I looked at the other forum sections but didn't find a thread. I miss my formula and frequently look at them on craigslist, sold her about a year and a half ago.
Believe it or not, the '88 Formula didn't cost me a thing. It belonged to a friend of a friend. It had been sitting for at least a couple of years, it needed a clutch, and the owner needed to get rid of it. I was in the right place at the right time. I was quite appreciative! However, there were plenty of challenges bringing it across the border and getting it driveable again, so I've paid my dues.
I haven't posted a proper "unveiling" thread yet, but you can see part of the car Here.
The cat looks like it may be a, or part Russian Blue.
I know nothing about cat breeds, but yeah, this cat has a slightly different look about it than other cats in my neighborhood. At first I thought it was homeless (no collar), but in one of the photos I've taken of it, I noticed it has a tattoo in its right ear. Very nice cat though, very affectionate. If I wasn't so allergic to cats, I'd keep it.
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:
And one of three neighborhood cats that seem to enjoy hanging around my yard. This is the only friendly one of the bunch.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 09-30-2013).]
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06:48 PM
84fiero123 Member
Posts: 29950 From: farmington, maine usa Registered: Oct 2004
It wasn't until I provided proof to the shop owner that the '87 Fiero SE V6 (basically the same car, just a year older) originally came from the factory with 215/60/14 tires that he let it go.
It was the factory hood painted flat black! 
I think he was convinced that the wing had been added. I informed him that's how the Formula came from the factory. 
However, there were plenty of challenges bringing it across the border and getting it driveable again, so I've paid my dues. 
