Words: Alex Villani

Here I sit on the eve of watching GM's global rear-drive sedans from Down Under race here in America - feeling great that rear-drive is alive, and well, inside the silos. What is there not to celebrate? From home-grown efforts like the ATS and CTS showing the world that GM can execute world class performance and luxury, to global collaboration creating cars like the Holden Commodore and Chevrolet SS, to the pride of the Red, White, and Blue, the Camaro and brand new C7 Corvette, there is no better time for a GM performance fan than right now. The current crop of vehicles arguably overshadows the Muscle Car era of years past by offering civilized performance machines.

But there is a growing moan from the performance crowd that wants more, because who doesn't love more? But what else could GM bring out? What other voids need to be filled? It seems the answer came from Toyota's GT86 triple play; a trio of lightweight sports sold around the world. These cars are not powerful, retina-detaching torque muscle cars, but a way for Toyota to bring back the spiritual successor to cars such as the 2000GT and the versatile AE86 platforms that have such a following. The new GT86-based cars are very well balanced, poised and look good drifting around in just about every video on YouTube - the Toyota Trio have gained a huge following everywhere they are sold.

GM tipped their toes into the pool last year by showing off two concept cars based off ideas they gathered from talking to "Millennials" about what they want in a car. One was a sharp looking, low-slung, front drive sports coupe called the "Tru140S", and the other was a more upright, three-box sports coupe that many people thought looked a lot like Chevy's version of BMW's 1-series, the "Code130R".

The former car was instantly ignored for several reasons, but there was a lot of attention paid to the little red sports coupe. It had nothing to do with its design nor was there any mention of the car's unique powertrain. No, all focus was paid on the little "Code" car because it was rear-drive. From that point forward, many people have hit forums and social media sites to show GM how much they want them to make this car. It seems that these fans have major internal support from none other than GM's North American President and GMI's Demigod, Mark Reuss.

Recently, Mr. Reuss has been very outspoken proponent of a vehicle like the Code130R, and if you are an avid reader of GMI, you know that no man has more love for performance cars within GM while wielding as much power as he does. This has sent the rumor mill into full swing, with rumors of a compact sports coupe rolling out, wearing nameplates ranging from Chevelle to Vega. Even the hugely popular YouTube network, Drive, dedicated a whole show talking about the potential of this car. It seems that everyone wants GM to push this through and get this on the streets as soon as possible.

Well, almost everyone.

I'm not convinced. It isn't that I do not like the idea of such a car. In fact, I have driven both GT86 variants and they are everything you have read and possibly more. There is something so pure, so elemental while keeping up with modern technology and all the teachings of chassis tuning from the best of Toyota and Subaru's engineers could put together. But the GT86 is something different, something that GM has never made. It was their return-to-form, retro-esque move to show the enthusiasts out there that they can believe in Toyota making fun to drive, non-boring grandma cars again, and at an affordable price. GM had already gone down this road and done this, starting back in 2006. Yes, Camaro was signaling to enthusiasts that GM could make affordable performance in the image of it's past, while maintaining customers demand for modern features and amenities.

As we approach the end of the fifth generation Camaro's run, we look forward to the next step in its evolution as it shifts from the Australian-based sedan platform, to the lightweight luxury American-based chassis. This next-generation Camaro will shrink and cut weight as GM looks to lighten all their vehicles - helping improve fuel economy numbers as well as performance. And with Camaro being priced right along the same lines as the Toyota Trio, it would make a very crowded situation if GM were to pull the trigger on a Code130R type car.

It is not that the Camaro can be considered a direct competitor to the cars like the Subaru BRZ and Scion FR-S, as Camaro will still be bigger and more powerful than Toyota's cars, it is that the space for GM to slot in yet another front engine, rear drive sports coupe under a car like Camaro might be suicide. And let us not get into the fact that GM has never made or will they figure out how to market a car like the FR-S without resorting to either copying Toyota or having no clue at all.

Chevrolet has a lot of open holes in its line up, and as the largest brand in GM's stable, it needs to have those filled as soon as possible. Sadly, the much more successful and arguably more important Camaro would take the slot that Code130R would sit in, but that does not mean that GM should totally forget the sport compact segment entirely. I mean, they did for most of the 90s as the trend picked up speed, and then again right after they stopped making the Cobalt SS. This site is rife with conversations about a Cruze SS, and to be honest, that car is such a no-brainer that it bothers me that we still have yet to see it.

No, I mean that GM could kill three birds with one stone: make a revolutionary product that is different than your competition, but that has ties to your heritage while using current parts-bin stuff to maintain profitability. GM had done this once before, using various parts from other vehicles to create a unique sports car called the Fiero. Now, before "fire" comments come rolling in, the Fiero gave GM a much different sports car than what could be had from Chevrolet and Pontiac at the time. Using sub frames and other components from various GM cars, GM put together a very good car, and it continued to improve until the last year where GM unceremoniously killed it.

GM could put together the best of Gamma and Delta II's parts bin, two global chassis, to create an all-new mid-engine sports car. And what to call it? Well, if you know your Chevrolet history, there is only one name that could be bestowed on such a vehicle, and that is Corvair. A small, mid-engine sports coupe that could be put together anywhere around the world, taking advantage of a global parts bin as well as dozens of engineers to create something that could rival the GT86 cars, without being a direct copy. And think about what that could mean for GM brands, or the potential to help spread out costs.

Now, I know it is not as simple as just welding some control arms together and moving the engine into the trunk of a Sonic, but if GM is going to spend the sizable amount of cash to develop a sports car, why not go after something that is completely different than what anyone else is offering out there? A Corvair could offer Chevy a global sports car that is attainable and functional when compared to the Camaro and Corvette, helping expand the brand's performance heritage as well as Chevy's street cred of making fun to drive vehicles. It is time to live a little, especially if you think that is a market big enough to develop a copycat sports car. So, how about it Mr. Reuss? Why not give it a go?

http://www.gminsidenews.com...hopes-dreams-118464/

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Raydar
88 Formula IMSA Fastback. 4.9, NVG T550

Praise the Lowered!

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 05-21-2013).]

That would be nice to see, the return of the Corvair. I just hope GM doesn't screw it up. It needs to be light, with a turbo 4 cylinder or a good V6. If they can keep the weight below 3000 pounds, and give it 200+ hp, it will be a very fun car. Could you imagine if they put a 300 hp LFX engine in a 3000# mid engine car? That would be a blast to drive and would get everyone's attention.

The problem will be that if it turns out to be too good, GM will do things to lower its performance so it does not threaten Camaro and Corvette sales.

[This message has been edited by Doug85GT (edited 05-21-2013).]

Chevy Fiero wouldn't hurt my feelings.

I thought the Solstice/Sky was supposed to play this role (although not mid-engined).

quote Originally posted by jaskispyder: I thought the Solstice/Sky was supposed to play this role (although not mid-engined).

Both of them ended with the 2009 model year.

This is exactly the wars from the 60s/70s. Big 3 with big engines and everyone else with, well, everything else.

quote Originally posted by jaskispyder: I thought the Solstice/Sky was supposed to play this role (although not mid-engined).

They were killed with Pontiac/Saturn and GM didn't think to incorporate them into existing brands.

[This message has been edited by Gokart Mozart (edited 05-21-2013).]

quote Originally posted by Doug85GT: Both of them ended with the 2009 model year.

Yup, can they didn't continue them. So now they think something like that will sell again?

I am not going to get excited over an affordable GM sports car again. Fool me twice...

Really, GM has proven time and again with the Fiero and Solstice/Sky that there is some willingness to get a cheaper sports car to market, but not enough to really do it in a polished way. Then, a year or two in, when some bad press has tarnished the brand, and when it becomes more difficult to sell a niche product which isn't the newest thing, sales drop and the GM beancounters go to war against the vehicles. Even when profitable, the profits and volumes are not high enough for them.

Eventually it ends in an unceremonious death.

It would be awesome on paper anyway...

Keep in mind that GM Inside News is not an "official" website. More like a glorified "fanboy" site, although there are a few actual GM insiders that contribute.
I'd take whatever you read with a grain of salt, even though it's supremely interesting. Recognize it for the speculation (or wet dream) that it is.

Having said that, I'd love to see a mid-engine anything, from GM.

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 05-21-2013).]

Disappointed doesn't begin to describe the Solstice/Saturn experience. Not holding my breath again. Unless the engine is in the back, it will not be a Fiero.

I'll be in the market for a new car in a couple months, because I need something reliable, and I'm buying a Subaru BRZ. I test drove a manual and an automatic, and the manual was such a great driving experience, it's the ONLY thing that comes close to the Fiero in any new car out there under $50k. Unless Toyota comes out with a new MR2 (and it ISN'T a convertible), I'll be sticking with the Fiero/BRZ combo for a LONG while.

if that is what they have planned for it to look like i'l pass, i think it looks like a pill

steve

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Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't



Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

RWDPLZ... Please keep us posted.
The main reason I'm not already buying a BRZ is because I keep hoping that they'll come out with a turbo STI version.
I've already given up on the idea that Chrysler is going to downsize the Challenger (or introduce a smaller Barracuda, as was rumored) any time soon.

quote Originally posted by Raydar: RWDPLZ... Please keep us posted. The main reason I'm not already buying a BRZ is because I keep hoping that they'll come out with a turbo STI version. I've already given up on the idea that Chrysler is going to downsize the Challenger (or introduce a smaller Barracuda, as was rumored) any time soon.

That's one of the reasons I'm waiting, I want to see what the 2014's will be. And if we've learned anything from Fiero's, it's 'never buy a first year car.'

quote Originally posted by RWDPLZ: And if we've learned anything from Fiero's, it's 'never buy a first year car.'

If no one buys a first-year car, are they made a second year?

quote Originally posted by RWDPLZ: Disappointed doesn't begin to describe the Solstice/Saturn experience. Not holding my breath again. Unless the engine is in the back, it will not be a Fiero. I'll be in the market for a new car in a couple months, because I need something reliable, and I'm buying a Subaru BRZ. I test drove a manual and an automatic, and the manual was such a great driving experience, it's the ONLY thing that comes close to the Fiero in any new car out there under $50k. Unless Toyota comes out with a new MR2 (and it ISN'T a convertible), I'll be sticking with the Fiero/BRZ combo for a LONG while.

Really? You didn't like the Solstice or the Sky? What didn't you like about them?

I had #1267 that I special ordered in March of 2005 (picked up in December of 2005). I loved that car... not as much as my Fiero, but the Fiero has a lot more history with me.

It was a fun car... I couldn't justify having multiple sports cars with a newborn, so I got rid of it and bought an Explorer as my daily driver... but I did enjoy that car. It was hands-down, a far better performance car than the Fiero... even if I do still like the Fiero more.

I sat in one, and I didn't fit! Seats were too narrow. I'm only 5'7, and that was back when I only weighed 200ish. Also

-Don't like the round styling
-Engine in the wrong end of the car
-Hate convertibles
-Engine in the wrong spot
-ZERO trunk space
-Engine in the front
-Horrendous dealer markups when they came out, not the car's fault of course
-Huge A-pillars you're constantly trying to see around
-Saturn Sky had a MUCH nicer interior
-Did I mention they didn't put the engine in the back?

quote Originally posted by RWDPLZ: I sat in one, and I didn't fit! Seats were too narrow. I'm only 5'7, and that was back when I only weighed 200ish. Also -Don't like the round styling -Engine in the wrong end of the car -Hate convertibles -Engine in the wrong spot -ZERO trunk space -Engine in the front -Horrendous dealer markups when they came out, not the car's fault of course -Huge A-pillars you're constantly trying to see around -Saturn Sky had a MUCH nicer interior -Did I mention they didn't put the engine in the back?

Heh... well, don't know what to say, but I'm 6'3" and I'm probably about the largest person that could possibly fit in there. It was snug, but I fit in like a glove, but that was with the seat ALL the way back, and then leaned back to the point where it pushed heavily against the plastic seat backing.

You do get used to the A-pillars.

As for the mark-ups... I paid ~$21,300 for mine. That was with ABS, A/C, LSD, MP3, and Power Package (power door locks, mirrors, and windows).

The MSRP for a base (Which came with none of that) was 19,995.

I bought mine from Schumacher Pontiac in West Palm. They were awesome... they even bought my wife roses when we went to pick it up.

The Pontiac dealer in Traverse City at the time, Bill Marsh, had a $10k markup right on the window sticker, they called it 'Market Adjustment' or something similar. I didn't feel bad at all wasting the salesman's time looking over the car.

Also: I fit perfectly in a DeLorean I have a large frame.

[This message has been edited by RWDPLZ (edited 05-21-2013).]

I don't normally buy new cars, so when I saw Pontiac coming out with the Solstice, I knew I had to buy it. I'm still glad I did.

I remember the prices being high after the fact... dealerships weren't supposed to do that... it's a shame that many of them were taking advantage of the situation. One day I wouldn't mind having my old Solstice back (if I could find the same one).


The DeLorean is awesome... always liked that car. I drove one a while back, it's a little bit underpowered (more so than a Fiero V6), but so unique.

quote Originally posted by RWDPLZ: I sat in one, and I didn't fit! Seats were too narrow. I'm only 5'7, and that was back when I only weighed 200ish. Also -Don't like the round styling -Engine in the wrong end of the car -Hate convertibles -Engine in the wrong spot -ZERO trunk space -Engine in the front -Horrendous dealer markups when they came out, not the car's fault of course -Huge A-pillars you're constantly trying to see around -Saturn Sky had a MUCH nicer interior -Did I mention they didn't put the engine in the back?

Your car is ready...

Corvair? CORVAIR?!?!?!? Really, the only GM nameplate with a worse reputation than Fiero? What, is the writer only 20 years old? And doesn't know who Ralph Nader is?

Anyway, I'd love to see a new GM Midengine, but I doubt I will. It wouldn't even need a V6. the current crop of turbo 4's are already pushing 270hp, so 300+ is a real possibility. 300+ hp in a sub-3000 lb car would, again, be a threat to Corvette. And we all know how that plays out.

quote Originally posted by RWDPLZ: I sat in one, and I didn't fit! Seats were too narrow. I'm only 5'7, and that was back when I only weighed 200ish. Also -Don't like the round styling -Engine in the wrong end of the car -Hate convertibles -Engine in the wrong spot -ZERO trunk space -Engine in the front -Horrendous dealer markups when they came out, not the car's fault of course -Huge A-pillars you're constantly trying to see around -Saturn Sky had a MUCH nicer interior -Did I mention they didn't put the engine in the back?

SKy didnt have the round styling

They should build the Cien (supercharged Northstar)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadillac_Cien

The closest thing they did build was the Cadillac XLR-V
(it shared Corvette chassis with Northstar powertrain)









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[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 05-22-2013).]