It was my race to lose and I decided to play around with this honda civic off the line, he couldnt keep up with me so I wasnt going full throttle (on and off part throttle) and then all of a sudden... His v-tec kicked in, and I was buttered toast. If I wouldnt have played around he wouldnt have won.

What exactly does that mean, "his v-tec kicked in"?

Since V-TEC is a variable valve timing and lift control system I don't get it either.

Older versions of V-Tec weren't infinitely variable, essentially once the engine reaches a certain RPM (pretty high IIRC) the cam timing changes rather abruptly. You can hear it on older Hondas/Acuras (I'm looking at you Mr. Integra...).

Example:



At that point the engine does kinda of "jump" in power delivery, hence the "V-TEC KICKED IN YO!" feeling. It was a pretty trick setup at the time actually.

[This message has been edited by squisher86SE (edited 04-24-2013).]

I beleave AL87 is talking RPM's or maybe the car had a Turbo,it takes a few seconds for a Turbo to kick in (modern Turbos have no turbo lag).Maybe it was a Sleeper...In some cases the car appears worse due to neglect (a rust bucket) on the owner's part, internally they are modified to perform at higher performance levels.Ive seen a V8 shoe horned into a Mosda Miata.

quote Originally posted by James Bond 007: I beleave AL87 is talking RPM's or maybe the car had a Turbo,it takes a few seconds for a Turbo to kick in (modern Turbos have no turbo lag).Maybe it was a Sleeper...In some cases the car appears worse due to neglect (a rust bucket) on the owner's part, internally they are modified to perform at higher performance levels.Ive seen a V8 shoe horned into a Mosda Miata.

Could have been something like that too, where the OP was the one being played

quote Originally posted by James Bond 007: .. into a Mosda Miata.

The old Mosda's were awesome cars - they don't make them anymore like that!

[This message has been edited by yellowstone (edited 04-24-2013).]

man... idk, off the like I kinda left him... like i was at least a length ahead when I wanted to slow down and laugh at him, tis when I lifted my foot on and off, and started playing around, I let him get up next to me when I shifted into second around 50 when the v-tech kicked in "yo" and then I saw him start to finally jump ahead then I floored it. he jumped a few lengths ahead, while I reached 7-7.5k on the tach catching upto him then I decided he was too far ahead at 80mph for me to continue trying.

had he and I not turned our seperate ways I woulda just went balls to the wall. I think whatever it is, he doesnt have "it" off the line, takes about 10 seconds from green for him to get scootin'

[This message has been edited by AL87 (edited 04-24-2013).]

7 - 7.5 k?

What engine do you have in your car?

The original version of VTEC was awesome - you got a sudden surge of power at a certain RPM, and the engine suddenly sounded a lot meaner too.

quote Originally posted by olejoedad: 7 - 7.5 k? What engine do you have in your car?

http://www.autozine.org/tec...ool/engine/vvt_2.htm

quote You can see the VTEC mechanism as 2 sets of cams having different shapes to enable different timing and lift. One set operates during normal speed, say, below 4,500 rpm. Another substitutes at higher speed. Obviously, such layout does not allow continuous change of timing and lift, therefore the engine performs modestly below 4,500 rpm but above that it will suddenly transform into a wild animal.

I don't know about the cars as I've never owned one. I did own a 2004 Honda VFR motorcycle though. It had a V4 engine with V-tech. It was a 4 valve engine but below 7k rpm only 2 valves actuated, increasing intake air velocity and fuel atomization thereby raising low end torque and power. From 7k to 14k rpm (yes it actually went to 14k rpm) it would open the other two valves and run on 4 valves per cylinder allowing for more airflow and thus more horsepower at higher revs. The sound it made when switching from 2 valves to four was awesome! It also opened a lot of power, it would regularly lift the front wheel when it hit 7k.

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It was a fun bike!

~Tyler

quote Originally posted by olejoedad: 7 - 7.5 k? What engine do you have in your car?

ohh, its just a rebuilt 2.8 with the rev limiter taken off.

you were at the track, right?

You're like, seventeen, right?

He was probably the one laughing. And why spin that high, even if it could?

quote Originally posted by mikejhjr: He was probably the one laughing. And why spin that high, even if it could?

Because it only makes 3 ft-lbs of torque below 7000 rpm.

quote Originally posted by Deabionni:

this is a fine example of what I was going for^^^

ALSO. I thought the v-tec worked on an increase in oil pressure past a certain point to where it would move a pin into place to engauge the 3rd rocker
I heard it was only good enough for 10hp... well that 10hp was the joke that got me in the end. XD

quote Originally posted by squisher86SE: Could have been something like that too, where the OP was the one being played

I wouldnt doubt it, but I didnt hear a turbo blow off... but then again, I cant really hear anything with my engine spinning anywhere past 4k with straight pipes.

also, of course Im gonna play around with it, its a junky looking honda civic. it was nothing like a ford f-250 turbo diesel, or a scion tc with a hot date in the passenger seat.
(of which these both lost)

of course, if my car drove anything like that V8 fiero I tested and shook down for a customer, no one would ever win against me.

[This message has been edited by AL87 (edited 04-24-2013).]

I see that no one thought to suggest that maybe he played you. I have been known to do that. Hit it kinda hard off the line(70-80%) and let the guy in the other lane cram it to WOT and let them feel good about themselves for a bit. I had a '79 Pinto with a hopped up 302 and a 4spd. Visually, it was near impossible to tell it was modified. Only the rear tires gave it away. One guy in a stock Grand Am toyed with me for a few stop lights and wound up not letting me over when I needed to make a turn. I wound up leaving him in my smoke, literally, when I lit the tires up and blew his doors off. It was fun for the first 10 seconds or so...

quote Originally posted by Rallaster: I see that no one thought to suggest that maybe he played you. I have been known to do that. Hit it kinda hard off the line(70-80%) and let the guy in the other lane cram it to WOT and let them feel good about themselves for a bit. I had a '79 Pinto with a hopped up 302 and a 4spd. Visually, it was near impossible to tell it was modified. Only the rear tires gave it away. One guy in a stock Grand Am toyed with me for a few stop lights and wound up not letting me over when I needed to make a turn. I wound up leaving him in my smoke, literally, when I lit the tires up and blew his doors off. It was fun for the first 10 seconds or so...

quote Originally posted by squisher86SE: Could have been something like that too, where the OP was the one being played

quote Originally posted by Rallaster: It was fun for the first 10 seconds or so...

http://youtu.be/AVhuyfnnNmk

[This message has been edited by AL87 (edited 04-24-2013).]

quote Originally posted by theBDub:

I completely missed it...

quote Originally posted by AL87: man... idk, off the like I kinda left him... like i was at least a length ahead when I wanted to slow down and laugh at him, tis when I lifted my foot on and off, and started playing around, I let him get up next to me when I shifted into second around 50 when the v-tech kicked in "yo" and then I saw him start to finally jump ahead then I floored it. he jumped a few lengths ahead, while I reached 7-7.5k on the tach catching upto him then I decided he was too far ahead at 80mph for me to continue trying. had he and I not turned our seperate ways I woulda just went balls to the wall. I think whatever it is, he doesnt have "it" off the line, takes about 10 seconds from green for him to get scootin'

I feel like this thread is going full retard.

You never want to go full retard.

A kid in my neighborhood recently got a Civic, someone else transplanted a V-Tech into it. He came looking for me wanting to race. I just looked at him and smiled. First, I said, I don't street race, secondly, why should I race you, what's in it for me if I win? He said we could race for pink slips. I replied that woudl do me no good, I'd be winning a car I didn't want in the first place. That kind of hurt his feelings. Then he offered up a $$$ bet to the winner. Said I'd think about it if and only if it was on a track.

But, it isn't going to happen, I could not care less who is faster in the 1/8 mile or 1/4 mile. While I admit to enjoying to play, I'm not interested straight line drag racing. Just not something I see as driver challenging, that a mechanic's race more than a driver's race. I said, let's go auto crossing. He didn't know what that was.

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Ron
Sadly, it appears that in these days, the definition of an honest politician is one that, once bought, STAYS bought...

V-Tec was pretty f'n awesome for the time... it's really hard to argue with 108HP/L in a stock N/A street car.

[This message has been edited by skuzzbomer (edited 04-25-2013).]

V4 Interceptor....


Hell my '84 VF700 Magna feels like that too. And the SOUND. V4 FTW.

quote Originally posted by GT-X: ... [/URL] [/URL] It was a fun bike! ~Tyler

Racing in a 2.8...you'll get beaten by many, many, many cars.

quote Originally posted by IROCTAFIERO: Racing in a 2.8...you'll get beaten by many, many, many cars.

its not stock.

i ran a 16.7 at thte strip before I put in my modified 2.8. hoping to run at least a 16.5 XD

quote Originally posted by AL87: its not stock. i ran a 16.7 at thte strip before I put in my modified 2.8. hoping to run at least a 16.5 XD

You lost the race before you started lol.

quote Originally posted by theBDub: You lost the race before you started lol.

lol, im just making use of the resources I already had in my posession, the rebuilt 2.8 was just something I had done to make my DD a reliable car.
I just used the limited amount of money I had at the time to do what I could, in which modifying the original engine seemd to be the least costly route.
its also got a smidge more pep in it.. I sold off the original 2.8 for 100 bucks. they arent much better than the duke, lol. I KNOW XD

7.5k on a 2.8? Valve float at 6k?
Anything after 5k on a 2.8 is doing nothing for you except making noise, even with a dual throttle bodies, Truleo, or ported.

:BACK IN THE DAY...:

My Ex fiancee wanted to have a 'fast n fun' car. We ended up gettin her a 91 Integra and playing with it a bit. Put in Type R pistons and rods, ported Vtec head swap from a 1.6, type R cams, full 2.5 header/exhaust, cai, clutch/flywheel, short throw shifter, lowered the car, nicer tires and a nice tune. I remember drivin home from pickin her up at the bar in it, and a 04 bug-eye subaru wrx revved on me and I heard his BOV make its funny little noise. We took off at the light and he gave it a little jump to about 3/4ish of a car and let off. His mistake, cuz I kept it in 1st and VTEC rampped up and I sailed past him. Held a car n a half on him till 4th gear and about 1/2 way through 4th he was even with me. Soon as he got even with me I ran over a box full of nuns, let out and started slowin down. He wasnt happy, so he wanted to go again. We were on a roll, he waved the number '3' at me (for 3 honks) So I slammed it into 3rd and by the 3rd honk romped it and instantly jumped bout a car n a half. Of course, about 3/4 thru 4th he was back even with me and we had to slow down for a bus full of kittens. I bet he went home, played fallout boy backwards n cut himself - cuz he was red in the face pissed...

::MORAL OF THIS STORY::
BUY NABISCO SNACKS!!!

Just kidding. Just because the car was painted a bananna yellow (previous owner...idk what he was thinkin...) and had stock steel wheels on it, he thought 'oh, this is gonna be an easy win! DERP!' Sleepers are everywhere out there. You gotta be careful too - just cause someone pops the hood and shows you what appears to be a 'stock' engine, it could definitely not be the case. They make a series of Buick turbos designed to look EXACTLY like the factory turbo. So just when you think you're racing a 'stock turbo' car, you hear it spool up to 28lbs of boost but by then its too late and you just got served.

Conclusion: I race everyone - wether its a honda or a ferrari - with the mindset that Im going to lose, but Im not goin down without a fight. My nicklesworth of free food for thought for the afternoon....

quote Originally posted by Fiero_Fan_88: 7.5k on a 2.8? Valve float at 6k? Anything after 5k on a 2.8 is doing nothing for you except making noise, even with a dual throttle bodies, Truleo, or ported.

Modified engine*
modified valvetrain*
not stock*

gotta spin a little higher in rps with the auto, so when it hits the next gear its in the torque band.

i feel ive lost some IQ points reading this....
racing a 2.8 auto... wow... just wow...
nothing you did short of way too much work into it would allow that 2.8 to spin that high and be useful...
even a set of heavy springs wouldnt help as the intake gets limited after so much...

Unfortunately 108 hp per liter doesn't do much good when you only have 1 1/2 liters. I think I like my 60+ horses per liter at 6.2 liters....makes life a little more fun
On the other hand, I think I smell BS on a 2.8 pulling 7500...valves float out and pistons are trying to change holes long before then.

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87 GT....SBC...fast as hell...
Proud new owner of....THE DIRTY RAT