quote Originally posted by jaskispyder: Hmmm, I don't know of anyone who defaulted on their student loans, but maybe it is who I interact with. The money has been well spent and repaid with interest. Student loans are necessary and money well spent (for the majority).

There is no default anymore. As the others have said. There used to be ways out, and was easy. Now you pretty much have to be disabled forever, and prove to a judge it's a hardship to repay.

quote Originally posted by 1985FieroGT: http://www.cnbc.com/id/100598257 In my personal opinion, the government should take over all student loan funding, and drop the rates to say 1%. And only allow the loans to cover degrees in practical areas.... Nursing, doctors, automotive mechanics, not any kind of philosophy stuff, or whatnot.

I had to double-check the date here...

I thought Obama passed a law in 2010 that effectively took control of the entire student loans program under the Federal government?

quote Originally posted by rogergarrison: I also think parents of kids should be footing the bill for K-12 grade too. Why do I pay for that thru property tax when I havent had a kid in 45 years. Maybe if parents had to pay for the schooling, they would reconsider having them and if they do, they would be more responsible for those kids. Right now school thru 12th grade is just a government paid babysitter.

Get your money's worth... have more kids... adopt if you have to.

quote Originally posted by jaskispyder: Any "we" wonder why all the good paying jobs are going overseas....

It is not because of any lack of education here in the USA, even you should know that.

quote Originally posted by spark1: Great plan. We can replace all the unborn kids with immigrant kids.

If there here illegally, kick them out. If they cant pay for their kids schooling, dont let them in. Pretty simple. So yes, its a GREAT PLAN. Side effect is it slows down the population growth dramaticly.

I dont want any more kids. I cant afford $10K each to send them to school even if I did. All you middle class college grads with your six figure incomes pay for your own and quit begging for me to pay it for you.

[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 03-28-2013).]

Guys, I'll say it again... did Obama not already just take over the student loan program?

I find hundreds of links that say this, what am I missing here?

quote Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: I had to double-check the date here... I thought Obama passed a law in 2010 that effectively took control of the entire student loans program under the Federal government?

Even if he didn't, it pretty much was anyway.

quote Originally posted by User00013170: Even if he didn't, it pretty much was anyway.

So I just looked it up... Obama took control of the student loan program in 2010 making it basically illegal to obtain student loans through private means. There were two exceptions to this... there were two banks that were in the state of a senator who refused to sign the law, unless they were given the exception... so those two banks can technically deal out student loans, but with some strings attached (not sure what they are). But since the Federal Government took control of the entire student loan program for FY 2011, more than 93% of all student loans have since been issued directly by the US Federal Government.

quote Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: So I just looked it up... Obama took control of the student loan program in 2010 making it basically illegal to obtain student loans through private means.

If it was up to him, we would get air from the federal government.

quote Originally posted by rogergarrison: If there here illegally, kick them out. If they cant pay for their kids schooling, dont let them in. Pretty simple. So yes, its a GREAT PLAN. Side effect is it slows down the population growth dramaticly. I dont want any more kids. I cant afford $10K each to send them to school even if I did. All you middle class college grads with your six figure incomes pay for your own and quit begging for me to pay it for you.

If a country is not growing it is dying. Our whole economy is based on growth; the entire Keynesian theory of economics assumes growth. There can never be equilibrium or regression without dire consequences.

quote Originally posted by Red88FF: Seriously? Maybe we need a discussion on what level of skills and reasoning power we want the general populace to be armed with. I think in most cases we are getting a piss poor bang for the buck. No, I am not happy about it nor do I like paying for it.

Public schools spend twice as much per student and often offer half the education and test scores of private schools.

One Example

More importantly though, is the notion that nobody should have to pay for somebody else's school.

quote Originally posted by NoMoreRicers: ?

That too.

quote Originally posted by theBDub: That too.

Oh my, we have an Anarchist in the thread! Everybody hide!

quote Originally posted by NoMoreRicers: The entire Keynesian theory of economics if flawed and fallacious.

Maybe so but we are too far down the road to turn back.
Actually, there is no way to turn back so let's hope that Keynesian Ben Bernanke is right.

quote Originally posted by spark1: Maybe so but we are too far down the road to turn back. Actually, there is no way to turn back so let's hope that Keynesian Ben Bernanke is right.

I found some rare footage of Ben Bernanke as a child!

Well, maybe I was wrong about private loans, but its interesting that the department of education took over my private loans... always wondered why.... unfortunately, the 12% variable interest rate on the one loan stayed the same

I'll admit this here, as some of you guys know I was bankrupt... my student loans are $42k, with a 15 year payoff, and are around $500 a month if they're not deferred. If it wasn't for the loans, I probably wouldn't have filed.

[This message has been edited by 1985FieroGT (edited 03-28-2013).]

I feel college education is much like the housing bubble of 2007/2008. When everybody chases the same commodity (in this case education) it is bound to devalue the given item for the group as a whole.

My logic: Up to 2007/2008, housing prices were rising and many people said "real estate is a great investment". When the housing market crashed along with other economic institutions, people pulled out of real estate hardcore!

College degrees are the new real estate bubble. The college bubble! People used to go into debt chasing real estate, now they do it chasing a piece of paper that DOESN'T even promise a high-paying job!!!!!

In my opinion, the old model of "go to college to get a great-paying job" is over. As many others have already stated, college degree recipients are no longer "guaranteed" a good paying job like they used to be.

With millions of college graduates each year, do any of us really think OUR degree makes us special? (Not to say education is a bad thing, just saying it is an overvalued, and now pretty common item)

I have heard many people say a Bachelors degree is the new high school diploma! WHAT! So GO TO SCHOOL AND GET A MASTERS DEGREE???? WTF!!!!!!!!!! SPEND ANOTHER $50,000+ on extra education because the first $30,000 didn't work? That makes no sense!!!!

I feel entreprenuership is the way to go. Granted, not everybody likes taking personal risks..... But, we see numerous young entrepreneurs in California starting unique tech companies and making money hands over fists! Look at Mark Zuckerberg, Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, Larry Page and Sergi Brin (spelling?) I do not see degrees behind their names, but I see $$$$$$ and a lot of people using their products.......

Just sayin

quote Originally posted by Red88FF: It is not because of any lack of education here in the USA, even you should know that.

Do you really think that education doesn't matter?

quote Originally posted by xquaid: College degrees are the new real estate bubble. The college bubble! People used to go into debt chasing real estate, now they do it chasing a piece of paper that DOESN'T even promise a high-paying job!!!!! In my opinion, the old model of "go to college to get a great-paying job" is over. As many others have already stated, college degree recipients are no longer "guaranteed" a good paying job like they used to be. With millions of college graduates each year, do any of us really think OUR degree makes us special? (Not to say education is a bad thing, just saying it is an overvalued, and now pretty common item) I have heard many people say a Bachelors degree is the new high school diploma! WHAT! So GO TO SCHOOL AND GET A MASTERS DEGREE???? WTF!!!!!!!!!! SPEND ANOTHER $50,000+ on extra education because the first $30,000 didn't work? That makes no sense!!!! I feel entreprenuership is the way to go. Granted, not everybody likes taking personal risks..... But, we see numerous young entrepreneurs in California starting unique tech companies and making money hands over fists! Look at Mark Zuckerberg, Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, Larry Page and Sergi Brin (spelling?) I do not see degrees behind their names, but I see $$$$$$ and a lot of people using their products....... Just sayin

Basically this. Education outside of STEM is pretty well worthless. The supply of Sociology, Psychology, Criminology and Education majors (teaching USED to be a profession, now it's just a continuation of the same old system you've been in your whole life...2 months of paid vacation?!?! Who wouldn't?) FAR FAR FAR exceeds the demand of the system. Please don't think I'm just bashing Liberal Arts majors here. There are some that do some really good work, but 99%+ of that is at the graduate an PhD level which only about 1% of these people reach. There just isn't work for the others.

Another reason a BA has become like a high school diploma is that the high schools are essentially glorified day cares and don't teach anything worthwhile anymore. What we're actually seeing in Ontario is material being dropped from the high school curriculum and not picked up by the universities...meaning there is a gap in knowledge in the population that didn't exist before.

quote Originally posted by jaskispyder: Do you really think that education doesn't matter?

Not in jobs going over seas.

It's less that people lack eduction. They lack the right TYPE of education.
A History degree doesn't get you far in an economy in dire need of Chemical Engineers.

People frequently study what they like and *want* to do without looking at what the job market and income potential for that job is once they graduate.

I know a lot of girls that go for a degree in 'Fashion Merchandising'. What the hell is that. Does anyone ever get any kind of job in it, that they couldnt get anyway having some hands-on knowlege of fashion. I know its just fun and girls are into it...plus its probably pretty easy to get good grades.

quote Originally posted by Jake_Dragon: There isn't enough truth in the world.

wait for it...

quote Originally posted by Doug85GT: The reason why student loans are so out of control is because of the government interference. This is an another case of the tax payers are on the hook for private sector gambles. Lenders are willing to give money to any student for any degree regardless of grades or possible post graduation earnings. They know that no matter what happens, their money is safe since the tax payers will cover any defaults. As a direct result of all of the easy money available, colleges have increased their tuitions to get as much money as they can. The college student that are taking these loans have very little understanding of the debt they are taking. Does any of this sound familiar? It should. It is the exact same thing that happened with the housing bubble just before it burst. If you want to fix college tuitions and debt, then the government needs to get out of the student loan business. When lenders have to take the loss for their reckless behavior, they will be more careful with their lending. When the easy money for colleges goes away, colleges will have to adjust by lowering tuitions and sticking to core curriculum. This will mean many degree mills will close. It will also mean that college bound students will have to meet more lending requirements such as good grades and taking degree programs that are actually in demand in the job market.

Bingo, some truth. /\ /\ /\ /\

quote Originally posted by Doug85GT: So? Provide for the common defense is a government function that is explicitly declared in the Constitution. Provide cheap college tuition is not.

Some more /\ /\ /\ /\

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 03-29-2013).]

quote Originally posted by xquaid: People used to go into debt chasing real estate, now they do it chasing a piece of paper that DOESN'T even promise a high-paying job!!!!!

Maybe I have a different perspective on life, but I don't understand where people get the idea that getting a college degree entitles you, or God forbid... "guarantees" you a high-paying job? I'm not trying to be mean to you because of what you said... but I see a college degree as one of many bridges you must cross to get to your eventual goal.

No one should have gone for a degree thinking that it would automatically lead to them getting a high-paying job.

Getting a high-paying job, or a good job, comes as a result of hard work, doing your time in other jobs by building up experience, and coupled with a decent education to show that you're willing to go that extra mile.

quote Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: Maybe I have a different perspective on life, but I don't understand where people get the idea that getting a college degree entitles you, or God forbid... "guarantees" you a high-paying job? I'm not trying to be mean to you because of what you said... but I see a college degree as one of many bridges you must cross to get to your eventual goal. No one should have gone for a degree thinking that it would automatically lead to them getting a high-paying job. Getting a high-paying job, or a good job, comes as a result of hard work, doing your time in other jobs by building up experience, and coupled with a decent education to show that you're willing to go that extra mile.

BAM. Exactly. College is nothing more than an education. That's it. It's only an education. I can't stress that enough.

Jobs may come based on what you have learned, but jobs don't magically appear because you have a piece of paper.

College is a stepping stone for some. It is a hindrance to others. People at age 18 should be able to decide for themselves what they want out of the next 10 years, and from there decide what they want for the next 40. It is only irresponsibility that leads to bogus degrees that go nowhere and land the student in massive debt with no way to pay it off.

quote Originally posted by xquaid: I feel college education is much like the housing bubble of 2007/2008. When everybody chases the same commodity (in this case education) it is bound to devalue the given item for the group as a whole. My logic: Up to 2007/2008, housing prices were rising and many people said "real estate is a great investment". When the housing market crashed along with other economic institutions, people pulled out of real estate hardcore! College degrees are the new real estate bubble. The college bubble! People used to go into debt chasing real estate, now they do it chasing a piece of paper that DOESN'T even promise a high-paying job!!!!! In my opinion, the old model of "go to college to get a great-paying job" is over. As many others have already stated, college degree recipients are no longer "guaranteed" a good paying job like they used to be. With millions of college graduates each year, do any of us really think OUR degree makes us special? (Not to say education is a bad thing, just saying it is an overvalued, and now pretty common item) I have heard many people say a Bachelors degree is the new high school diploma! WHAT! So GO TO SCHOOL AND GET A MASTERS DEGREE???? WTF!!!!!!!!!! SPEND ANOTHER $50,000+ on extra education because the first $30,000 didn't work? That makes no sense!!!! I feel entreprenuership is the way to go. Granted, not everybody likes taking personal risks..... But, we see numerous young entrepreneurs in California starting unique tech companies and making money hands over fists! Look at Mark Zuckerberg, Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, Larry Page and Sergi Brin (spelling?) I do not see degrees behind their names, but I see $$$$$$ and a lot of people using their products....... Just sayin

I agree 100%.

A college education is worth very little in my opinion. I'd rather hire someone who can get the job done (with 5+ years experience and NO college degree) vs. a college newbie with 0 experience.

I think the problem is definitely loans, but specifically the fact that they are so easy to get. Wanna go to a private school? Great. It'll cost $20k/yr of invisible money that you pay back after you graduate. Apply for a loan and you're granted. Multiply that by 100,000 and you'll see why the costs of college keep going up. The demand is there. And nobody really understands the true costs of the money they're paying. ("I don't have to worry about it until after I graduate")

70 years ago a high school degree was rare. Parents pushed their kids to graduate and get a good paying job. So everyone did, and they became common place. So parents pushed their kids to go to college to get a good paying job. They did, and now everyone wants to go (Demand = $$$$) and they became common place. So now they're pushing graduate school for jobs packing groceries at Safeway.. I don't know how many times I've heard "She has a Masters Degree? What is she doing here getting paid $40k/yr??"

Get rid of loans and I guarantee several things:

1) Fewer people will go to college.
2) Cost will come down to help get the students in the door
3) The actual education will improve as schools jockey for position and try to set themselves apart to draw in paying students.

All of this, IMHO, is good.

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: Get rid of loans and I guarantee several things: 1) Fewer people will go to college. 2) Cost will come down to help get the students in the door 3) The actual education will improve as schools jockey for position and try to set themselves apart to draw in paying students. All of this, IMHO, is good.

Get rid of all loans? Or just the subsidized loans? I think that a 40 year old with a great credit history should be able to get loans to go back to school.

[This message has been edited by NoMoreRicers (edited 03-29-2013).]

quote Originally posted by NoMoreRicers: Get rid of all loans? Or just the subsidized loans? I think that a 40 year old with a great credit history should be able to get loans to go back to school.

ALL loans. Getting rid of just the subsidized loans won't help (or at least, not enough)

College is CASH ONLY.

A 40 year old with great credit history should be able to pay the ~$9k/yr necessary for college, no problem. Sell the car and get a bike... etc.

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: ALL loans. Getting rid of just the subsidized loans won't help (or at least, not enough) College is CASH ONLY. A 40 year old with great credit history should be able to pay the ~$9k/yr necessary for college, no problem. Sell the car and get a bike... etc.

Yeah, I agree that the 40 year old could probably afford to pay cash for college.

But if a bank or similar institution is willing to give him a loan, nobody should be able to tell them otherwise.

quote Originally posted by NoMoreRicers: Yeah, I agree that the 40 year old could probably afford to pay cash for college. But if a bank or similar institution is willing to give him a loan, nobody should be able to tell them otherwise.

I suppose as long as the payments are due immediately, and not this "1 year after graduation" crap, that would probably be fine....

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: I suppose as long as the payments are due immediately, and not this "1 year after graduation" crap, that would probably be fine....

I imagine that completely private loans would be more towards that nature.

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: I agree 100%. A college education is worth very little in my opinion. I'd rather hire someone who can get the job done (with 5+ years experience and NO college degree) vs. a college newbie with 0 experience. I think the problem is definitely loans, but specifically the fact that they are so easy to get. Wanna go to a private school? Great. It'll cost $20k/yr of invisible money that you pay back after you graduate. Apply for a loan and you're granted. Multiply that by 100,000 and you'll see why the costs of college keep going up. The demand is there. And nobody really understands the true costs of the money they're paying. ("I don't have to worry about it until after I graduate") 70 years ago a high school degree was rare. Parents pushed their kids to graduate and get a good paying job. So everyone did, and they became common place. So parents pushed their kids to go to college to get a good paying job. They did, and now everyone wants to go (Demand = $$$$) and they became common place. So now they're pushing graduate school for jobs packing groceries at Safeway.. I don't know how many times I've heard "She has a Masters Degree? What is she doing here getting paid $40k/yr??" Get rid of loans and I guarantee several things: 1) Fewer people will go to college. 2) Cost will come down to help get the students in the door 3) The actual education will improve as schools jockey for position and try to set themselves apart to draw in paying students. All of this, IMHO, is good.

Yep, if you were smarter, youd take that $40k-$100K+ and started your own business. Youd end up making more than the guy who got a degree. He missed 5 years of making anything while in school...or more. He ran up a debt. He 'usually' cant get that good paying job for at least several more years. He could have started working and learning on the job and been in the same place making the same money in the same length of time. Maybe after all that hes making more money via his degree. By the time both get to retirement the one without the degree has probably made the same amount of income over his working career. If he had a successful business on his own, hes made more than the one with the degree. Of course a lot of people cant get themselves into a successful business. You dont have to have a degree to work an assembly line...you can start right out of high school. Until recently they made very good money and didnt have to invest in a business and didnt go to college. The only degrees you get in college are things like Law and Medicine, maybe engineering. Many products now were invented by people who never even finished high school. WIthout looking it up, Ill bet Henry Ford, Wright brothers and other inventors didnt have any degrees. Did Bill Gates? (just asking).