.

[This message has been edited by cliffw (edited 01-23-2013).]

Oh, you posted down below...

[This message has been edited by TheDigitalAlchemist (edited 01-23-2013).]

I assume there will be an armed revolt now. This is the federal government clear over-stepping their authority.

Wow. I loved the Whitehouse's official response. In summary, it said listen to Obama's speaches, and learn why you Texan folks should learn to love him.

quote Originally posted by TK: I assume there will be an armed revolt now.

Nope!

We will just wait until the civil war starts and quietly remove ourselves from the fray.

quote Originally posted by BlackThunderGT: Nope! We will just wait until the civil war starts and quietly remove ourselves from the fray.

You're kidding me. All that tough talk and Texas will do nothing? Wow. Oh, I see. Texas will get someone else to die for them.

quote Originally posted by TK: You're kidding me. All that tough talk and Texas will do nothing? Wow. Oh, I see. Texas will get someone else to die for them.

Nope!

Texans have always been on the forefront of America’s battles… check, the statistics on service member volunteers. I believe California is the only state that provides more volunteers to military service than Texas.

What I’m saying is a lot of people outside of Texas think we just stupid poor backwoods hillbillies… but were not! When the **** hits the fan in this country we have a plan to remove ourselves from the country. Will we support other states in the battle for freedom… sure! But it’s going to be hard with the influx of refugees and securing our boarders!

Sorry, hit "Submit" too soon.

Texas was not the only State to request this. I am not sure of the response to the other States, though I suspect it is the same canned letter.
Here is the story from my home State, Amarillo newspaper, and here it is from the liberal New York Times.

Can you believe it ? After four years of trying to divide the nation, the White House issues a response entitled "Our States Remain United", . In the response, the regime says that our Founding Fathers established the United States as a “perpetual union”. Really ? Where/how ? The response goes on to say, that the Founding Fathers did not provide a right to succeed.

quote “Our founding fathers established the Constitution of the United States ‘in order to form a more perfect union’ through the hard and frustrating but necessary work of self-government,” Mr. Carson wrote. “They enshrined in that document the right to change our national government through the power of the ballot — a right that generations of Americans have fought to secure for all. But they did not provide a right to walk away from it.”

I beg to differ. The very first amendment, guarantees people the right of peaceable assembly. I argue that this also gives us the right of peaceable dis-assembly.
I also argue that, pursuant to the 13^th Amendment (abolishing slavery), that succession is Constitutional.
We also have been in support of the USSR's break up, the Libyan change of power, the Egyptian people's choices, the right to be free. What is the problem of the regime's desire to enslave Texas ? Oil ? Steaks ? Cotton ? Ah, money, . Texas would, if free, still be the World's 14^th largest economy.

quote above NY Times Linky The director of the White House Office of Public Engagement, Jon Carson, wrote in his response that free and open debate was good for democracy, but also cited some of the legal arguments against secession, including Texas v. White, an 1869 Supreme Court ruling that found that individual states did not have a right to secede.

I am gonna be looking into this, I have not had the time. I thought I should include it in my post.
I am not advocating that Texas should succeed but it is an option. My feelings are not in response to Nabama's election win. It is in response to the people who elected him, ... my fellow Americans. Some here are clamoring for the people who said they would leave if he won, to put up or shut up. It can happen.

[This message has been edited by cliffw (edited 01-23-2013).]

Why fight a battle when someone else will do it for you. Makes sense to me.

If Texas would (hypothetically) gate all highways and railroads at their border and put armed guards there to enforce it. They could declare themselves sovereign and let citizens pass thru same as always. What would the US Government do about it, attack Texas ? The US cant declare martial law on Canadian or Mexican soil..... Texas can be self sustaining if they want. They even produce their own oil and have most of the refineries. US couldnt blockade it because they have access thru Mexico at the Rio Grande for shipping, rail and air. Id bet Mexico would jump at the chance for free trade with the country of Texas. Texas could then even request foreign aid from the US... just like every other country on the planet. Like every other state, they already have a complete government already in place.

[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 01-23-2013).]

I want to know why they aren't starting that now. What reason could they have for not doing it. Look at the posts on this forum. They are willing and prepared.

quote Originally posted by TK: I want to know why they aren't starting that now.

I want to know why we have to. You can divorce your wife, you can quit your job.
Michigan/California they can espouse their desired government and the Nation seems to want to go the same way.
Newsflash ! It ain't working.
Tell me this. If California was free, would they want to join the United States ? If so why ? I see no benefit.

[This message has been edited by cliffw (edited 01-23-2013).]

Cliff, for what its worth, I totally believe you have the right to SUCCEED.
And I strongly support your desire to SECEDE.
If I can help in any way, please don't hesitate to ask.



------------------

Drive safely!

[This message has been edited by NEPTUNE (edited 01-23-2013).]

quote Originally posted by NEPTUNE: Cliff, for what its worth, I totally believe you have the right to SUCCEED. And I strongly support your desire to SECEDE. If I can help in any way, please don't hesitate to ask.

Do you think we have the right to SECEDE ?

I know plenty of people from Texas who DONT want to secede, including my father. Anyone who does not want to be part of the United States, PLEASE, leave. No, you cannot take the land with you. Well, maybe with a 100% consensus from all of your citizenry.. otherwise you are enforcing tyranny on some Texas citizens in the name of fighting tyranny.

Honestly, I wish there was a way we could ship all people who do not want to be US citizens out. Love it or leave it, as they say.

quote Originally posted by tbone42: Anyone who does not want to be part of the United States, PLEASE, leave. No, you cannot take the land with you.

We brought the land with us.

quote Originally posted by cliffw: Do you think we have the right to SECEDE ?

No.
We fought that war back in 1861.
But if you crybabies want to go, I'll support your death wish.
Go rejoin Mexico, if you like, from whence your land came.

[This message has been edited by NEPTUNE (edited 01-23-2013).]

I wonder if that would change anything in my employment?
I work in Austin but the corporate hq is in Idaho.
I guess I would work in a different country.
And TK if you want to question Texans dedication to fighting for a cause just come down here and spout off and see where it gets you.
You can bring your buddy Neptune with you.

[This message has been edited by TXGOOD (edited 01-23-2013).]

quote Originally posted by tbone42: Well, maybe with a 100% consensus from all of your citizenry.. otherwise you are enforcing tyranny on some Texas citizens in the name of fighting tyranny.

You mean like the 100% consensus from all who didn't support ObamaCare ? How 'bout ... if 49% of Texans who did not want to secede just left Texas ?

Cliff, considering that all of the Texas locations are about the only ones making a profit in a nationwide company they probably would move to Texas.
Oh, to set the record straight I love Texas, I love the United States and I really like most of the people I meet from the United States even our Northern brothers but I dislike the direction some of the leaders seem to be taking this country against all that it stands for.

[This message has been edited by TXGOOD (edited 01-23-2013).]

Read my lips! "NO NEW TEXAS"

[This message has been edited by dratts (edited 01-23-2013).]

It's amazing to me that this administration manages to not only use the Constitution for toilet paper, but they also manage to try to hide behind it when it's convenient. How nice for them that they can waive it, or wave it at their convenience.

Pure comedy gold.

Besides, they can't let go of Texas! Then where would they get the oil they're selling to China?????

[This message has been edited by Taijiguy (edited 01-23-2013).]

quote Originally posted by dratts: Rad my lips! "NO NEW TEXAS"

[This message has been edited by NEPTUNE (edited 01-23-2013).]

quote Originally posted by dratts: Read my lips! "NO NEW TEXAS"

It would not be a new Texas. The Federal Government is out of control. It is over bloated. It is a disgrace. "Kick the can down the road", "the obstructionist other party", the political divide. A debt we can not pay and no concern to pass a budget, . Who would join such a loser ?

quote Originally posted by cliffw: I want to know why we have to. You can divorce your wife, you can quit your job. Michigan/California they can espouse their desired government and the Nation seems to want to go the same way. Newsflash ! It ain't working. Tell me this. If California was free, would they want to join the United States ? If so why ? I see no benefit.

Isn't succession all about freedom? Isn't this touted as the single reason Texas wants out? Isn't freedom worth dying for?

quote Originally posted by TK: Isn't freedom worth dying for?

It's worth killing for.
Yes, it's worth dying for. Ask any of the survivors of the Alamo, ... wait, there were none. Including many Americans and US Senator Davy Crockett, from Tennessee.

quote Originally posted by NEPTUNE: But if you crybabies want to go, I'll support your death wish.

Death wish ? Tell that to the minute men who defeated the most powerful empire, the British, or, tell it to the ragtag Texians (no mis-spelling) who defeated the Napoleaon of the West, Santa Anna.

There once was a 49 star flag:



(Probably wasn't made in China but you can buy a replica that is).

[This message has been edited by spark1 (edited 01-23-2013).]

quote Originally posted by cliffw: Death wish ? Tell that to the minute men who defeated the most powerful empire, the British, or, tell it to the ragtag Texans (no mis-spelling) who defeated the Napoleaon of the West, Santa Anna.

Gawd, I SAID I was on your side.
What more do you want?
GO already.
Take Dubya with you as the president of Texas.

(I'll let slide the fact that there were no Texans in the Minutemen, 'cause there was no Texas yet)

[This message has been edited by NEPTUNE (edited 01-23-2013).]

quote Originally posted by tbone42: I wish there was a way we could ship all people who do not want to be US citizens out. Love it or leave it, as they say.

I get your sentiment, but I'm going to have to call a foul here. Or at least make a clarification.


Many of us WANT to be U.S. citizens. We WANT to be U.S. citizens, because we believe in the constitution of the United States, and believe in a constitutional republic form of government.


There is certainly going to be a range of interpretation, but the current administration is falling SO far from following the constitution they are sworn to defend, and HAVE TAKEN AN OATH to defend, that the definition of "the United States" is changing. Changing to a point that some people want to LEAVE the United States in order to live in a place that actually BEHAVES LIKE THE UNITES STATES IS CURRENTLY SUPPOSED TO.


Their loyalty is to the IDEA of the United States as a constitutional republic, and not to the current unconstitutional bastardization it being devolved into.


You can agree or disagree that it is worth the fight for that, or not.


But land of the (relatively) individually free, and home of those kinds of people brave enough to live that kind of life (and accept the consequences of it)?

That isn't what the current administration is coming CLOSE to promoting.


THAT is the cause of the divide that is leading to this kind of talk.

quote Originally posted by frontal lobe: I get your sentiment, but I'm going to have to call a foul here. Or at least make a clarification. Many of us WANT to be U.S. citizens. We WANT to be U.S. citizens, because we believe in the constitution of the United States, and believe in a constitutional republic form of government. There is certainly going to be a range of interpretation, but the current administration is falling SO far from following the constitution they are sworn to defend, and HAVE TAKEN AN OATH to defend, that the definition of "the United States" is changing. Changing to a point that some people want to LEAVE the United States in order to live in a place that actually BEHAVES LIKE THE UNITES STATES IS CURRENTLY SUPPOSED TO. Their loyalty is to the IDEA of the United States as a constitutional republic, and not to the current unconstitutional bastardization it being devolved into. You can agree or disagree that it is worth the fight for that, or not. But land of the (relatively) individually free, and home of those kinds of people brave enough to live that kind of life (and accept the consequences of it)? That isn't what the current administration is coming CLOSE to promoting. THAT is the cause of the divide that is leading to this kind of talk.

That is ALMOST word for word what my father wrote to the local newspaper when the federal government made Florida desegregate public schools about 50 years ago.
He HATED JFK.
The more things change, the more they stay the same.

[This message has been edited by NEPTUNE (edited 01-23-2013).]

If Texas wishes to leave the union it can. However a lot of this succession talk is from people who are simply unhappy with the current government in power.

Personally I dont see it (Texas leaving) happening.

The white house telling them they can’t secede reminds me of an abusive husband telling his wife she can’t leave him.

I doubt much will come of this but it sure would be exiting if they did it. I would bet there would be very little in the way of ground assaults but more along the lines of economic screw tightening and assassinations.

quote Originally posted by htexans1: Personally I dont see it (Texas leaving) happening. However a lot of this succession talk is from people who are simply unhappy with the current government in power.

quote Originally posted by cliffw: I am not advocating that Texas should succeed but it is an option. My feelings are not in response to Nabama's election win. It is in response to the people who elected him, ... my fellow Americans. Some here are clamoring for the people who said they would leave if he won, to put up or shut up. It can happen.

I can not think of one reason anyone would want to join the union. Well, besides free health care, free housing, free food, ... The endless executive orders to go around Congress, the kicking the can down the road, we are broken.
I do no see succession happening but I would support it.

[This message has been edited by cliffw (edited 01-23-2013).]

quote Originally posted by cliffw: Texas is doing something, believe me. Believe me, we are not bending over. Did you know, that if we can not succeed, we can legally break up into five states, getting more House Representatives (maybe), but for sure, eight more Senate Representatives.

I think Texas should brake up into states the size of Rhode Island. That would show em, 2 Representatives per state.

quote Originally posted by FriendGregory: I think Texas should brake up into states the size of Rhode Island. That would show em, 2 Representatives per state.

Now that has legs!

quote Originally posted by NEPTUNE: Cliff, for what its worth, I totally believe you have the right to SUCCEED. ...

So you believe success is a "right?"

quote Originally posted by NEPTUNE: That is ALMOST word for word what my father wrote to the local newspaper when the federal government made Florida desegregate public schools about 50 years ago. He HATED JFK. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

If you can't see the distinctions, and proclaim "the more they stay the same", then you are part of the problem.


In the case of desegration of schools, that was a case of the federal government making states GIVE rights to people.

The situation with the current administration of federal government is taking AWAY rights from the people.
So your dad got it wrong. Right principles, wrong application. Although your dad may have been a "states rights" person. Or he may have been against desegregation. Or he may have been against the way the federal government was trying to define desegregation. I wasn't there.


Your dad's words don't reflect at all on MY comments, except that I'm certain it has some meaning to you personally.


But yeah. People SHOULD stay the same when it comes to PRINCIPLES. As I stated, even when applying the principles, there will be a range of interpretation.

quote Originally posted by cliffw: Ask any of the survivors of the Alamo, ... wait, there were none. Including many Americans and US Senator Davy Crockett, from Tennessee.

Sam Houston was also from Tennessee. Since we were there in the beginning, can I come if you split off?

Jonathan