A neighbour of ours (who is a native man, if that matters) spends his winters in Florida, and told me that he likes to vote in elections there, including federal elections. He thinks it is funny since he is a Canadian citizen and holds no US citizenship, but has never been asked for id when voting in the US. I actually didn't believe him when he told me this a few years ago, because I thought, "how can someone vote in an election and not be asked for id?". Only during the last US federal election did I hear that this was the case.

Why NOT now?
And, since this statute would be EQUALLY applied across every single demographic, why is anyone at all opposing this?

(not rhetorical questions--I'd really like to hear an answer)

quote Originally posted by loafer87gt: Here in Saskatchewan we have to be registered to be on a voting list, and then at time of voting we have three options to provide proof of identity: Option 1 Show one piece of identification with your photo, name and address. It must be issued by a government agency. Example: driver's licence. Option 2 Show two valid original documents. Both pieces must have your name and one must also have your address. Example: health card and electric bill. Option 3 Swear an oath and have an eligible voter vouch for your identity and place of ordinary residence. The person vouching for you must be an eligable voter who has valid authorized identification. This person can only vouch for one person. No one here complains about such policies being racist because the same rules apply to everyone.

Are option one and two valid in the new U.S. rules???

Here's one take...



and another http://www.reuters.com/arti...dUSBRE88N01I20120924

quote Decades of study have found virtually no use of false identification in U.S. elections or voting by non-citizens. Activists say the bigger problem in the United States, where most elections see turnout of well under 60 percent, is that eligible Americans do not bother to vote.

[This message has been edited by newf (edited 10-31-2012).]

I bet none (or very very close to none) of them have a problem producing a valid (and acceptable) ID when it comes to cashing their paychecks.

Or buying booze or cigarettes...

quote Originally posted by thedrue: Or buying booze or cigarettes...

That's racist!

quote Originally posted by maryjane: I bet none (or very very close to none) of them have a problem producing a valid (and acceptable) ID when it comes to cashing their paychecks.

Yet as shown that same ID would be invalid to vote with.

quote Originally posted by newf: Yet as shown that same ID would be invalid to vote with.

Please explain? I feel that you are being sarcastic.

Does not one need to show ID for cashing ones own check?

And, could you paraphrase your video post? I am not sitting here for another 24 plus minutes listening to that lady say "dear god" after every word.

[This message has been edited by Tony Kania (edited 10-31-2012).]

I use the same ID for cashing a check as I do to get a voter registration card--as do most people in this country.
If ID were required at the voting booth, I would again use the same ID.

quote Originally posted by Tony Kania: Please explain? I feel that you are being sarcastic. Does not one need to show ID for cashing ones own check? And, could you paraphrase your video post? I am not sitting here for another 24 plus minutes listening to that lady say "dear god" after every word.

Well it seems that people have cashed checks using ID's that would not be sufficient under some of these new voting laws, many of those which have been enacted in the last year http://www.brennancenter.or..._voting_law_changes/

Paraphrase the video? The argument seems to be that these laws are being enacted by a specific political party to target a certain segment of society that generally votes for the opposite party, You know regular political BS.

Make showing ID mandatory for all. Rich. Poor. White. Black. Everybody. Then, neither side can say shat.

Would that work for you?

Edit: I do understand it is a little late in the game for a rule change now, but for the next election have it mandatory. It has been shown that many states do this. Make it a federal law during federal elections. Sounds reasonable to me.

[This message has been edited by Tony Kania (edited 10-31-2012).]

quote Originally posted by Tony Kania: Make showing ID mandatory for all. Rich. Poor. White. Black. Everybody. Then, neither side can say shat. Would that work for you? Edit: I do understand it is a little late in the game for a rule change now, but for the next election have it mandatory. It has been shown that many states do this. Make it a federal law during federal elections. Sounds reasonable to me.

Yep!

My favorite part of the video Newf linked to is the bit about where it states 1 in 8 black people are in jail, and then one former felon goes on to say that the "system" is designed to incarcerate black people and silence their voice. He said this is the modern version of slavery that they face.

Note to the blacks who feel they are unfairly targetted: Don't break the law. Don't end up in jail. Tell others in your black community to stop living the thug life, go out and get a damn job, and try to make your communities a better place instead of a warzone. Don't be the 1 of the 8 of your friends and end up in jail if you would like the right to exercise your right. And most of all, PLEASE stop being a victim.

[This message has been edited by loafer87gt (edited 10-31-2012).]

quote Originally posted by dratts: [QUOTE]Originally posted by Tony Kania: Make showing ID mandatory for all. Rich. Poor. White. Black. Everybody. Then, neither side can say shat. Would that work for you? Edit: I do understand it is a little late in the game for a rule change now, but for the next election have it mandatory. It has been shown that many states do this. Make it a federal law during federal elections. Sounds reasonable to me.

Yep!
[/QUOTE]

Now--When?

There is a Federal law concerning voter identification. For Oregon:

quote The federal Help America Vote Act of 2002 provided new, nationwide voter registration requirements for voting in federal elections. To register to vote, a person must be a resident of Oregon and be able to answer “yes” to the following questions on the voter registration card: • “Are you a citizen of the United States of America?” and • “Are you at least 17 years of age?”

There are no voting booths here since all voting is done by mail. Until 2006, anyone with an Oregon mailing address could vote by completing a registration card. Amazingly, all those unverified voters were grandfathered in as valid when the law was tightened and they can continue to vote indefinitely.

The new law seems to require positive ID but eligibility depends upon the honesty of the voter who never has to appear in person.

quote New laws require that people must provide identifying information to register to vote. A person registering to vote is asked to provide identification only if they are a new registrant in the state. Identification is not required for updates. As of January 1, 2006, individuals must provide a current, valid Oregon Driver and Motor Vehicles (DMV) Driver License or identification (ID) card. If the individual does not have a current, valid Oregon DMV Driver License/ID, the last four digits of the individual’s Social Security number must be provided. If the individual has neither a current, valid Oregon DMV Driver License/ID nor a Social Security number, the individual must affirm this and, if they are registering by mail, must provide a copy of one of the following: • valid photo identification, • paycheck stub, • utility bill, • bank statement, • government document, or • proof of eligibility under the Uniformed and Overseas Citizens Absentee Voting Act or the Voting

http://bluebook.state.or.us...ions/elections01.htm

Just about anyone who lives here or has lived here can produce one of the above documents. It's difficult to imagine an adult being able to exist without a photo ID or Social Security number. Maybe members of some Amish sect?

[This message has been edited by spark1 (edited 11-01-2012).]

Has anyone here filled out an i-9 form. Its required when getting hired. Read the last two pages. So to be employed you need forms of id. IF you need it to get a job why is it a big deal to have it for voting.
http://www.uscis.gov/files/form/i-9.pdf
In Ohio I know its very common practice to get state id cards. Schools work with 18 year olds to make sure they have proper Identification for the business world. Also to where some are stating the timing is off. Pennsylvania which is big in this fight passed the law last year. No one enforced it people where outraged and our now making these claims. They had over a year to get ids and still choose not to. I am sorry but if something bad happens to me I would rather be in a hospital or morgue with my name and not a wrist band or toe tag saying John Doe. I owe it to my family to be found in the worst case.

I may very well be wrong, but I believe if you are in public and a Police Officer asks you for identification you are required by law to provide it.

I just searched and came up with this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...nd_identify_statutes

24 states currently have laws that basically state you have to be ready to identify yourself at all times, and not giving proper identification in all States is a violation of any number of laws, including resisting, obstructing, or delaying a Police Officer.

So the basic read is, we have to carry ID for everything else, why the sudden issue with requiring it to vote?

Brad

My own bank ive used for many years, has to see my ID anytime I cash a check. All the tellers call me by name. I wouldnt want a chip that could be illegally tracked anytime they wanted to. I still say I never have a problem showing my ID when asked.

quote Originally posted by newf: The argument seems to be that these laws are being enacted by a specific political party to target a certain segment of society that generally votes for the opposite party, You know regular political BS.

Seems to some. But do you think they are? Or even if one party seems to be pushing the idea, can you honestly say it is a bad idea to require an id to vote? Or give a legitimate reason?

This seems like something that should have been required since day one.

quote Originally posted by 2.5: Seems to some. But do you think they are? Or even if one party seems to be pushing the idea, can you honestly say it is a bad idea to require an id to vote? Or give a legitimate reason? This seems like something that should have been required since day one.

Yep!

quote Originally posted by loafer87gt: Here in Saskatchewan........

AH HA!!!

Now I understand your problem with Black folks....I can only imagine the hordes of Blacks you come into contact with in...uhhhh...Saskatchewan on a daily basis. LMAO!! There are but a million or so people in the entire province so do beware of those estimated 4-5000 Black folks. That may seem like an overwhelming horde to you "Saskatoonians" but, down on this side of the border, that's an near empty house at a NBA game.

You posted something previously about how Blacks were certain to riot should Obama lose and how "everyone" should stock up on ammo. Here's a short reality check for you. In the highly remote chance that sort of BS reaction was to occur, I think I can say with some certainty that you're safe in Saskatchewan especially this time of year....it's getting cold up there already so (according to the Black Panther newsletter that we ALL get down here) there are no immediate plans for a Black invasion of a mostly uninhabited Canadian province.....maybe next summer. In the interim, a regular sized can of pepper spray should handle it.

All sarcasm aside, your paranoiac biases are so blatantly transparent that you're extremely difficult to take seriously by all but PFF's more "predisposed" cadre...you most certainly have "fellow travelers" here. However, for the more grounded among us, whenever you start in on one of your overheated racial rants, all one would have to say to regain a sense of proportion is "Saskatoon."

Saskatchewan indeed...not even Ontario, mind you.....SASKATCHEWAN!!

ROTFLMAO!!

Carry on.

[This message has been edited by Doni Hagan (edited 11-01-2012).]

Got something against Canadians, Doni?

quote Originally posted by skuzzbomer: Got something against Canadians, Doni?

Might want too read his post again, since he said nothing negative about Canadiens.. At least try to make it look like your not trying too start an argument..

Skuz is being funny.

Doni, what is your opinion as a Black man on the subject?

I have several Black amigos that think that the ID is BS, but most feel that it is ok. At least ones that I have talked with in the past 24 hours. (A small representation of about 6. 1/3 are against it.)

quote Originally posted by twofatguys: I may very well be wrong, but I believe if you are in public and a Police Officer asks you for identification you are required by law to provide it. I just searched and came up with this. http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...nd_identify_statutes 24 states currently have laws that basically state you have to be ready to identify yourself at all times, and not giving proper identification in all States is a violation of any number of laws, including resisting, obstructing, or delaying a Police Officer. So the basic read is, we have to carry ID for everything else, why the sudden issue with requiring it to vote? Brad

The key to that is they have to have "reasonable suspicion" of something to detain you and ask for ID.

quote Originally posted by Tony Kania: Skuz is being funny. Doni, what is your opinion as a Black man on the subject? I have several Black amigos that think that the ID is BS, but most feel that it is ok. At least ones that I have talked with in the past 24 hours. (A small representation of about 6. 1/3 are against it.)

Just passin' through, Tony.....

Understood.

quote Originally posted by Doni Hagan: AH HA!!! Now I understand your problem with Black folks....I can only imagine the hordes of Blacks you come into contact with in...uhhhh...Saskatchewan on a daily basis. LMAO!! There are but a million or so people in the entire province so do beware of those estimated 4-5000 Black folks. That may seem like an overwhelming horde to you "Saskatoonians" but, down on this side of the border, that's an near empty house at a NBA game. You posted something previously about how Blacks were certain to riot should Obama lose and how "everyone" should stock up on ammo. Here's a short reality check for you. In the highly remote chance that sort of BS reaction was to occur, I think I can say with some certainty that you're safe in Saskatchewan especially this time of year....it's getting cold up there already so (according to the Black Panther newsletter that we ALL get down here) there are no immediate plans for a Black invasion of a mostly uninhabited Canadian province.....maybe next summer. In the interim, a regular sized can of pepper spray should handle it. All sarcasm aside, your paranoiac biases are so blatantly transparent that you're extremely difficult to take seriously by all but PFF's more "predisposed" cadre...you most certainly have "fellow travelers" here. However, for the more grounded among us, whenever you start in on one of your overheated racial rants, all one would have to say to regain a sense of proportion is "Saskatoon." Saskatchewan indeed...not even Ontario, mind you.....SASKATCHEWAN!! ROTFLMAO!! Carry on.

Glad my location renders my opinion irrelevant. Yes we do have black people here. I found this out shortly after moving to to the "city" when I was walking home one night and robbed at gunpoint by a group of three of them right along a busy (for us Saskatchewan hicks!) freeway. I will never forget the animal like grin on the face of the one fellow pointing the gun at me, and to this day I still regret not pushing him into the moving traffic. So yes, we have blacks here. And yes, I will openly admit I don't trust them one damn bit after that formulative experience.


And I didn't state that the blacks were going to riot. YOUR people stated they were going to riot. They took to Twitter, the Blogosphere, Facebook - you name it - all brazingly declaring how they were going to let America burn should Obama not get re-elected. You may think it is funny, but I think people should be extremely concerned about these people should they not get the results they want from the 2012 election. You may not have to worry as you are one of them, but what about the other innocent bystanders caught in their wrath of their black angst?

Anyhow, got to go. I have polar bear digging through the trash can outside my igloo.

quote Originally posted by Doni Hagan: Just passin' through, Tony.....

I was interested too.

Cool story, bro.

What I find interesting from watching the national news this past weekend, I rarely do any more, was it showed President Obama early voting back in Illinois. In order to do so, he had to show a photo ID. It evidently is a state law for early voters. Yet not during regular Tuesday when things are more hectic and open to fraud.

I have an older conservative black friend from church. We do coffee after church on Sunday along with events of the day. He is very much opposed to the Voter ID requiement being passed in Minnesota. In the 60's in Louisana he fought for civil rights and voter rights and is afraid it will dis-enfrancis black voters. I need to get thoughts on his possible solutions to overcome others fear of voter fraud. The last time the topic came up, the group discussion got rather heated. It is a very sesitive issue with a lot of people.

I think its odd that its all focused on "Blacks", when the whole "illegal alien" thing usually pins to a whole other demographic.

quote Originally posted by loafer87gt: And I didn't state that the blacks were going to riot. YOUR people stated they were going to riot. They took to Twitter, the Blogosphere, Facebook - you name it - all brazingly declaring how they were going to let America burn should Obama not get re-elected. You may think it is funny, but I think people should be extremely concerned about these people should they not get the results they want from the 2012 election. You may not have to worry as you are one of them, but what about the other innocent bystanders caught in their wrath of their black angst? Anyhow, got to go. I have polar bear digging through the trash can outside my igloo.

True on the first paragraph. Loafer DID NOT say that. Blacks are saying it ALL OVER the interwebs. A quick search, and yes, he only posted the truth in that thread.

The second paragraph is just down right comical.

So what is any arguement people give about not wanting to show an ID to vote ? I still say theres no reason not to unless your a criminal who is in hiding. If the law says you must show it and you dont want to, just dont vote. Problem solved.

quote Originally posted by rogergarrison: So what is any arguement people give about not wanting to show an ID to vote ? I still say theres no reason not to unless your a criminal who is in hiding. If the law says you must show it and you dont want to, just dont vote. Problem solved.

its not the ID, it is changing the rules just before the election.

Gotcha....

quote Originally posted by Tony Kania: True on the first paragraph. Loafer DID NOT say that. Blacks are saying it ALL OVER the interwebs. A quick search, and yes, he only posted the truth in that thread. The second paragraph is just down right comical.

Just the fact that he refers to black people as "the blacks" shows where his opinion comes from. His describing of the people that mugged him and the "animal like grin" are also tells. Honestly, as someone who has friends from every walk, race, sexual preference, socilal class, etc I can honestly say I probably wouldn't enjoy the company of a few people that post regularly here. Loafer seems to be someone I would probably avoid, as his ignorant classifying of people would probably lead to us not getting along. You and I would have disagreements, but I think we'd still get along just fine for the most part. I can't say the same for him or some of the others.

[This message has been edited by mptighe (edited 11-01-2012).]

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: its not the ID, it is changing the rules just before the election.

SO next election it'd be fine?

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: its not the ID, it is changing the rules just before the election.

BINGO!!! Funny how some laws cause politicians to drag their feet, but others give them a career erection and they become matters of the utmost importance. Guess which one this falls into for each party. Not that I side with the Dems on this one, it should be mandatory. However, it should be researched for impact, the wording should be agreed to by both parties, and not literally right before it's time to vote.