Lance Armstrong, a cycling "deity" whose 7 in a row victories are unmatched in the history of cycling says he is going to stop fighting "doping charges" as he is just tired of having to defend himself.
The cycling governing body is going to "ban" him for life from cycling and "Strip" him of his 7 victories in the Tour of France.
They never proven Lance "doped" or used any drugs in any of his victories. They have been trying Lance since he began riding in the TDF in the 1990s, and have been dogging him ever since, and he opines: "its just getting old, I'm tired of it, and its time for it to stop."
[This message has been edited by htexans1 (edited 08-24-2012).]
As many drug tests as he took over the years yet none of them showed positive for drugs. They continued to hound him anyway. Apparently he ticked off the wrong person and someone or some group made it their goal to destroy him. How many times do you have to prove your innocense before they beleive you? For the doping committee, the answer was always one more than he's already taken.
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10:18 AM
2.5 Member
Posts: 43235 From: Southern MN Registered: May 2007
As many drug tests as he took over the years yet none of them showed positive for drugs. They continued to hound him anyway. Apparently he ticked off the wrong person and someone or some group made it their goal to destroy him. How many times do you have to prove your innocense before they beleive you? For the doping committee, the answer was always one more than he's already taken.
And to me, that is the point of suing. You're not just doing it for yourself. But for all I know he already did, I haven't followed it.
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10:22 AM
Boostdreamer Member
Posts: 7175 From: Kingsport, Tennessee USA Registered: Jun 2007
It doesn't change anything for me. I'll still be wearing my Livestrong stuff. I wonder if Nike will pull the line?
------------------ Jonathan 23K mile '85 notchie w/ 88 cradle, '87 2.8/Getrag, Air, PW, PDL, PM - Still under construction https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/121056.html I'm not a mechanic but I play one in my garage - me Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely - Lord Acton Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not - Thomas Jefferson The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants - Thomas Jefferson
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10:36 AM
blackrams Member
Posts: 33081 From: Covington, TN, USA Registered: Feb 2003
Personally, I'm not a bicycle racing fan at all, don't even like watching and I sure don't like meeting or having bicyclist on roads made for autos but, I still admire the man for what he accomplished.
Ya know, it didn't matter what you could prove or dis-prove back in the Salem Witch days, they still hung ya if they thought you were a witch. Seems pretty similar to me. Don't blame him for telling them to take their crap and shove it.
------------------ Ron We learn good judgement by exercising bad judgement. Such is the human condition, as sad as that sounds.
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11:21 AM
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Toddster Member
Posts: 20871 From: Roswell, Georgia Registered: May 2001
Wouldnt lawsuits be able to be filed by him? Maybe he is guilty?
You've apparently never been in a lawsuit. It is an exhausting, draining, life sucking experience that costs a fortune in time and even more in money...and in the end, the only winners are the lawyers.
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11:28 AM
2.5 Member
Posts: 43235 From: Southern MN Registered: May 2007
You've apparently never been in a lawsuit. It is an exhausting, draining, life sucking experience that costs a fortune in time and even more in money...and in the end, the only winners are the lawyers.
Yeah the system could work better than it does, but it is there.
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11:42 AM
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
And to me, that is the point of suing. You're not just doing it for yourself. But for all I know he already did, I haven't followed it.
There have been multiple investigations and lawsuits over the years. Allegations just keep coming. This isn't a case of a single lawsuit. He's been dealing with this for years already.
He had testicular cancer, I am sure they gave him replacement therapy. That's were it got tricky, if they decided that he got to much therapy and it was an unfair advantage then it would be hard to fight. Even if the levels he had were normal levels it may be enough that he took the therapy during the races.
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01:24 PM
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
He had testicular cancer, I am sure they gave him replacement therapy. That's were it got tricky, if they decided that he got to much therapy and it was an unfair advantage then it would be hard to fight. Even if the levels he had were normal levels it may be enough that he took the therapy during the races.
He passed hundreds of drug tests. In at least one there were trace amounts of what could be considered "enhancing" drugs which were from his cancer therapy. However, his still passed the drug test because the amounts were below allowable limits. To my knowledge, he's never failed any of his drug tests, but there have been many allegations of it, yet no evidence presented. There was a book released where someone also made allegations - again, no proof, just accusation.
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03:27 PM
Toddster Member
Posts: 20871 From: Roswell, Georgia Registered: May 2001
when anyone thinks of Tour De France - one of two things comes to mind Lance Armstrong & who cares what else. anyone know who won this year? last year? anyone care? I'm sure someone knows....
and, until someone actually "proves it" - its all a buncha spiteful BS anyways, isnt is?
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04:16 PM
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frontal lobe Member
Posts: 9042 From: brookfield,wisconsin Registered: Dec 1999
Couldn't think of his name. Knew he was british. He won whatever the Olympic event was in cycling this year, too.
Looked it up. Bradley Wiggins. One of the complaints in cycling is "blood doping". That would be giving yourself a blood transfusion to increase the number of red blood cells that you have in your system. Or you can hyper-stimulate your bone marrow to over-make the number of blood cells by injecting yourself with "epo": erythropoietin--the hormone that stimulates blood cell production in the body.
OK. So "epo" is classified as a "performance enhancing" drug.
But is it? Well, yeah, you have more blood cells and you can carry more oxygen and therefore you can perform better. Really? What if your normal number of red blood cells can provide the muscles with the maximum of oxygen they can process? Then there is no advantage to having MORE red blood cells. The muscles can't use the extra oxygen from the extra red blood cells anyway.
And what if it is actually a negative. What if the increased viscosity from the extra red blood cells makes the heart have to work harder to move the blood through the blood stream.
So, an analogy. Your engine needs lubrication. More is always better. So instead of using the manufacturers recommended 5/30 weight oil, I am going to use 20/50. Because if 5/30 is good, 20/50 will be even BETTER. Except the extra viscosity of that weight of oil might make the engine have to work even HARDER. Now, growth hormone? Steroids? DEFINITELY would be performance enhancing.
Blood doping and epo? That is placebo effect for this level of athlete.
But I never hear that conversation being held. But when would I? I'm out riding my bike...like Lance!!
If you look under the rock in this case, you are going to find French Officials hiding in the slime. The French were never happy Lance took all those wins. The European Cycling group is dominated by France. This is purely a witch hunt. Lance has made his money. He doesn't need to spend it on litigation sponsored by a foreign government. Look a little deeper. You are going to find the French government involved in this. Just my .02
Arn
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07:45 PM
Patrick Member
Posts: 38873 From: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada Registered: Apr 99
If you look under the rock in this case, you are going to find French Officials hiding in the slime. The French were never happy Lance took all those wins. The European Cycling group is dominated by France. This is purely a witch hunt. Lance has made his money. He doesn't need to spend it on litigation sponsored by a foreign government. Look a little deeper. You are going to find the French government involved in this
So why have the same French officials never gone after Greg LeMond then?
quote
Gregory James LeMond (born June 26, 1961 in Lakewood, California) is a former professional road bicycle racer from the United States and a three-time winner of the Tour de France. He was born in Lakewood and raised in Reno, Nevada.
Greg LeMond has some interesting things to say about Lance Armstrong in that article I quoted from. Interesting, but yes, disappointing as well.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 08-24-2012).]
Sometimes, you just have to quit and say f**k it. He still won all those titles. So what if they took back their little medals and trophies. He can go to the local trophy store and have them make him replacements for almost nothing. Clubs here get car show trophies and plaques for $3-4 each.
The man beat the odds and survived. It is a shame that they have beaten him with legal action when cancer could not. Live Strong, Lance. You are a hero to many people. The research that you have helped fund will save countless lives, and that means more than any number of victories on the track.
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10:19 AM
crashyoung Member
Posts: 1333 From: Lowell, Michigan, USA Registered: May 2012
I will still like Lance no matter that HE wants to end this fight. The TDF and other detractors can swim up , well never mind... Keep picking your own fights Lance!
Perhaps if we start calling the race TDF, the TDA? Tour De Armstrong... Lance owns ya baby!
[This message has been edited by crashyoung (edited 08-25-2012).]
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10:45 AM
Jan 18th, 2013
2.5 Member
Posts: 43235 From: Southern MN Registered: May 2007
There is talk that the statue of limits on perjury is past, so this is why he is coming out now. Sad... His name will be linked with doping and fraud for a long time.
Oh, I heard somewhere that there may be future legal battles. For example, the Post Office was a sponsor of his.
How he got caught matter too. Remember, No real proof that they doped... Just X said Y did... Like McCarthy hearings, Just getting a subpoena by Congress could end your career and blacklist in Hollywood and elsewhere.
USADA isn't only private outfit to do "police" work. National Center for Missing & Exploited Children (NCMEC) and others are doing this kind of work too. Someone using your open router to DL illegal images? Except cop to get a call from NCMEC then knocking down your door. NCMEC is not police but Feds and most states laws makes NCMEC front line contact to "save kids" and 4th etc amendment doesn't apply to them.
------------------ Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should. (Jurassic Park)
While, we should be concerned about the extended reach of various federal departments... Lance brought this about, because he lied. He continued to lie... then the escalation on both sides began.
quote
Originally posted by theogre:
Armstrong guilty aside...
How he got caught matter too. Remember, No real proof that they doped... Just X said Y did... Like McCarthy hearings, Just getting a subpoena by Congress could end your career and blacklist in Hollywood and elsewhere.
USADA isn't only private outfit to do "police" work. National Center for Missing & Exploited Children (NCMEC) and others are doing this kind of work too. Someone using your open router to DL illegal images? Except cop to get a call from NCMEC then knocking down your door. NCMEC is not police but Feds and most states laws makes NCMEC front line contact to "save kids" and 4th etc amendment doesn't apply to them.
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12:09 PM
Patrick Member
Posts: 38873 From: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada Registered: Apr 99
What gets me is they couldn't catch him with the drug tests. I tend to look at that as pushing the rules to the limit. Sure, he was doping, but they had no way to prove it. If they didn't have a rule that says "if you test positive for 'x' then you're guilty of doping" I tend to think he should get away with it.
It's a sport. Athletes routinely try to find ways around the rules and to push the rules to the limit. If the rules can't catch what you did - then it shouldn't be against the rules.
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01:13 PM
Patrick Member
Posts: 38873 From: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada Registered: Apr 99
What gets me is they couldn't catch him with the drug tests. I tend to look at that as pushing the rules to the limit. Sure, he was doping, but they had no way to prove it. If they didn't have a rule that says "if you test positive for 'x' then you're guilty of doping" I tend to think he should get away with it.
It's a sport. Athletes routinely try to find ways around the rules and to push the rules to the limit. If the rules can't catch what you did - then it shouldn't be against the rules.
Odd way of looking at it.
He was using a drug that would increase his strength and endurance artificially, but yet could not be detected by current drug screenings. Sounds like he was cheating and knew it. It isn't like he was eating some fruit and didn't realize it had a positive result. He knew what he was doing was cheating, he denied it in court even.
What if someone came up with a substance similar to cork, and put it into their bat. Would this be ok, since it isn't cork? Nope, because the substance mimics the benefits of cork.
I guess Lance follows George Constanz's rule.... "is isn't a lie, if you believe it"...
[This message has been edited by jaskispyder (edited 01-18-2013).]
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01:44 PM
Rallaster Member
Posts: 9105 From: Indy southside, IN Registered: Jul 2009
him for life from cycling and "Strip" him of his 7 victories in the Tour of France.
