Heard a story of a man that claimed he built guns. The guns were so good they had been baned from compatitions. ?? This sounded strange to me. Then the story went on till something else caught my attention. A small cal projectal that could still penitrate body armor at 1,000 yards after it punched thru a plate of 1/2" steel.
I am not going to call this a lie, I just want to know what he may have been shooting? Keep in mind the cal was small (did not say what size) but that he was chalanged by a Navy Seal who did not beleive it (says the story) because it was so small.
I am not an expert, but I think the gun has less to do with it than the ammo. But the gun was a type of long range target compatition gun. The story also said he built guns for special ops around the World? So I think it may be a military round.

My guess, is a 5.56 green tip?

Any one else have a guess?

It is absolutely impossible

I know I had made a steel swinging target to sight in Melanie’s .243 deer rifle.
At 100 yards, the range I sight it in at it makes one hell of a dent in ½” steel plate. It may have even been 5/8”. It has been a few years since I did this but I do remember they were FMJ.
Now if memory serves me, (You all know my memory sucks) the only round faster with a flatter trajectory is the .270 and that is because it is faster.
Now comes the argument, .50 cal may be able to penetrate steel.

But it is the bullet, not the rifle that gives you the penetration, while the rifle barrel length that keeps that accuracy over the distance. That and the rifling of the barrel.

Steve

------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

I won't say it's not possible, but highly unlikely. If it's true, there's something about it that is a major deviation from what we're thinking of. Something like, does it have a 5000fps muzzle velocity? Is the bullet made of titanium? Something weird and unexpected to make it be able to do what he says.

High velocity modified .223 round made out of DU maybe, but getting your hands on uranium of ANY kind is an exercise in governmental red tape. DU is ~60% denser than lead and is rated on the Brinell's scale at 2,400 vs 1,500-1,900 for hardened steel.

quote Originally posted by Rallaster: High velocity modified .223 round made out of DU maybe, but getting your hands on uranium of ANY kind is an exercise in governmental red tape. DU is ~60% denser than lead and is rated on the Brinell's scale at 2,400 vs 1,500-1,900 for hardened steel.

You can easily get your hands on uranium samples. However, this is unrefined and doesn't pose much danger. Just don't sleep with it under your pillow or eat it.

http://www.unitednuclear.co...=2_4&products_id=462

quote Originally posted by Rallaster: High velocity modified .223 round made out of DU maybe, but getting your hands on uranium of ANY kind is an exercise in governmental red tape. DU is ~60% denser than lead and is rated on the Brinell's scale at 2,400 vs 1,500-1,900 for hardened steel.

Add to the mix that a 22-250 has a speed of 4,000 fps. 4,000 sps in a 5.56 size that has the weight of a .308 and the hardness of tool steel? What would it do?

Probably some wildcatted .50 cal necked down to a .22 size with the projectile being about 3 inches long, steel core ammo. about 5,000 fps is the limit, normal guns tend to start breaking around that point.

Steel can be pretty weak even at a half inch if made cheaply.
Level 1 body armor can basically only stop a .22 or smaller. Put all those together and it seems absolutely possible. Why anyone would go through all that trouble is beyond me, including a gun that has to be rebuilt after a box of ammo, other than just fun that is

quote Originally posted by Rickady88GT: Add to the mix that a 22-250 has a speed of 4,000 fps. 4,000 sps in a 5.56 size that has the weight of a .308 and the hardness of tool steel? What would it do?

Dunno...I just dont want it doing to me

quote Originally posted by dennis_6: You can easily get your hands on uranium samples. However, this is unrefined and doesn't pose much danger. Just don't sleep with it under your pillow or eat it. http://www.unitednuclear.co...=2_4&products_id=462

Although cool, I'm not sure those samples would be able to perform in the same manner the DU I was talking about.

quote Originally posted by Rickady88GT: Add to the mix that a 22-250 has a speed of 4,000 fps. 4,000 sps in a 5.56 size that has the weight of a .308 and the hardness of tool steel? What would it do?

In a rifle length barrel... Shorten to handgun length will lower bullet speed allot.

Do? 22-250 bullet will make Gofer to exploded but best rounds are dropping 30-36" at 500yd
example http://www.hornady.com/store/22-250-Rem/
Heaver bullet will transfer more energy to target but will slow and drop it too...

------------------
Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.
(Jurassic Park)

The Ogre's Fiero Cave (It's also at the top and bottom of every forum page...)

Maybe a tungsten or tungsten hybrid

"1/2" steel" can mean anything. So can "small caliber".
Most steel is mild steel and is not to be confused with 1/2" armor plate.
The shape of the projectile can make up for a slower velocity, as can the material. Tungsten actually mushrooms less than DU does, and the right combination of shape and material could produce true armor peircing performance well under 4k fps.

Thanks for the info.
I am glad that the story did not get as many harsh remarks as I thought I would. Cool info.

quote Originally posted by Rallaster: Although cool, I'm not sure those samples would be able to perform in the same manner the DU I was talking about.

I am sure they would not, I was only informing you, Uranium is obtainable, without red tape. DU, is another matter.

Armor piercing ammo in the .223 caliber is commercially available. It can penetrate 1/4" ballistic steel plate, or a Kevlar vest, but probably not both.

That said, there are a few sub-.50 calibers that can accomplish the claim in the thread title. But I wouldn't consider any of them "small caliber".

Any chance you can talk to the guy again, and get some more details?

Found this, seems pretty close:

The 7.62x51 Slap round consist of a 5.56 size tungsten bullet or projectile that has a teflon ring if you will at the neck of the shell holding it in place. This allows for a unique situation; You have a enough powder to compensate and then some for the heavier tungsten bullet/projectile to be projected at around 3000 fps (this number in some situations is an understatement) and overpenetrate about any target. Now, when fired out of the correct barrel (about 20 to 24 inches) the teflon that allows for the fitment of the 5.56 bullet in the 7.62x51 case will be consumed towards the end of that barrel by heat. This makes the projectile untraceable, because there arn't any rifling marks the projectile itself, and as for the teflon it is gone. Grab you shell to discard the firing pin marks left on your primer, and your a ghost. Even if the bullet is found, they are thinking about a 5.56 caliber projector as supposed to a 7.62x51. As you may notice this round seems to be more of a sniper setup.

http://forums.gunbroker.com....asp?TOPIC_ID=383537

he said guns not the bullets

quote Originally posted by Rickady88GT: Heard a story of a man that claimed he built guns. The guns were so good they had been baned from compatitions. ?? This sounded strange to me.

but who knows

steve

------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

quote Originally posted by Uaana: And this, Velocity: 3985 feet per second Maximum effective range: 4921.5 feet (1500 meters) against 3/4" High Hard Armor (HHA) Unit Replacement Cost: $7.50 per round Features: .50 caliber SLAP ammunition was developed by the Marine Corps during the mid/late 1980s and was approved for service use in 1990 during Operation Desert Storm. It uses a reduced caliber, heavy metal (tungsten) .30 inch diameter penetrator wrapped in a "plastic" sabot or "shoe" of .50 inch diameter. Since the mass of the saboted penetrator is much lighter in weight than normal ball .50 caliber ammunition, SLAP's velocity can be significantly and safely increased in an unmodified M2 Machine Gun. This produces a very fast round with a very flat trajectory which enhances hit probability. SLAP ammuntion is completely interoperable with M2 machine guns with stellite liner. http://www.globalsecurity.o...s/munitions/slap.htm The 5.56 SLAP has been chased, but never realized.

I forgot about the SLAP round. We qualified with them at gunnery on more than 1 occasion. They say it's a 'Light Armor Penetrator" but I have it on good authority, the only armor it doesn't penetrate is the DU armor on the Abrams, and that's primarily due to its thickness.

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: he said guns not the bullets but who knows steve

Sorry, didn't even enter my head.. The weapon can greatly affect accuracy, shot placement.. But it's the round that does the penetration work.
I'll admit there is a bit of an art/science to matching the round to the weapon for maximum efficiency still doesn't affect penetration..

My bet is on high caliber, high velocity, with a smaller hardened penetrator like DU in a particular cone shape that will literally burn through armor as it impacts.