Extent of surface melt over Greenland’s ice sheet on July 8 (left) and July 12 (right). Measurements from three satellites showed that on July 8, about 40 percent of the ice sheet had undergone thawing at or near the surface. In just a few days, the melting had dramatically accelerated and an estimated 97 percent of the ice sheet surface had thawed by July 12. In the image, the areas classified as “probable melt” (light pink) correspond to those sites where at least one satellite detected surface melting. The areas classified as “melt” (dark pink) correspond to sites where two or three satellites detected surface melting. The satellites are measuring different physical properties at different scales and are passing over Greenland at different times. As a whole, they provide a picture of an extreme melt event about which scientists are very confident. Credit: Nicolo E. DiGirolamo, SSAI/NASA GSFC, and Jesse Allen, NASA Earth Observatory More at link.
When I was there in the ealy 60's, the ice pack was still growing. The DEW line radar sites were on piers like oil platforms and the sites could be ratcheted up as the snow/ice pack increased. The snow would melt each summer so the pack looked like a layer cake.
You can see the piers holding up the platform here:
[This message has been edited by spark1 (edited 07-24-2012).]
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08:32 PM
MidEngineManiac Member
Posts: 29566 From: Some unacceptable view Registered: Feb 2007
Sure--soon, they'll have fresh bananas and other tropical fruit right off their own trees. (soon, being a relative term of course)
Wonder what interesting artifacts they will find under the ice?
Not to raise an issue...but as a Dane who has a 1200-year-old tracebale family history....
GOOD ON THEM !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We didnt settle the place 1,000 years ago just to have it taken over....and it might surprise you how many of us are still Pagens....xtianinty didnt subjigate our ancestors---it just started a war...
Hey, god and banker of Isreal--get back to Isreal....Iceland doenst need you...and you never won t5he war.
[This message has been edited by MidEngineManiac (edited 07-24-2012).]
Also "a massive iceberg twice the size of Manhattan broke from Greenland’s Petermann Glacier last Tuesday. But this isn’t the first time the Petermann has been in the spotlight: A similar event occurred two years ago, when a chuck of ice four times as large as Manhattan broke, or calved, from the glacier in August of 2010".
I covered this over the weekend when Bill McKibben started wailing about the albedo going off the charts. I thought it might be soot related. The PR below and quote above is from NASA Goddard. I had to laugh at the title of their press release, where they cite “Unprecedented Greenland Ice Sheet Surface Melt”, then contradict themselves when the main researcher goes on to say “melting events of this type occur about once every 150 years on average. With the last one happening in 1889“. Do these guys even read their own press releases? Climatologist Pat Michaels concurs saying: “Apparently NASA should start distributing dictionaries to the authors of its press releases.”
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09:47 PM
2farnorth Member
Posts: 3402 From: Leonard, Tx. USA Registered: Feb 2001
Having been to Thule AB, G-land I will guarantee that the ice will return this winter. As far as icebergs there were many of various sizes drifting past the end of the runway every day in the "summer time".
Old joke from there is there is a girl behind every tree... For those that don't know...there are no trees on the continent (at least back then)
[This message has been edited by 2farnorth (edited 07-24-2012).]
LOL it's summer guys. The ice sheets in that latitude melt most summers.
And, let's remember that "Greenland" got its name from the Vikings who found good farm land there. Then the mini-iceage, and it is still in recovery.
Arn
I think it was actually so people would be tricked into thinking it was a beautiful land, and therefore they'd settle there. Iceland was because they first settled the northern end which was all ice.
[This message has been edited by theBDub (edited 07-25-2012).]
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09:30 AM
2.5 Member
Posts: 43235 From: Southern MN Registered: May 2007
that be alot of water I know we did the math here in O/T not to long ago, which did show that total melt off would be a significant impact on worldwide sea level.
there isnt actually that much water on earth. while it covers a large surface area - it really isnt all that deep. Greenland Ice is pretty thick. deeper than most waters.
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09:45 AM
KidO Member
Posts: 1019 From: The Pacific Northwest Registered: Dec 2003
If you have ever been to Greenland, you know that it does not live up to its name. Instead of being a beautiful, green island Greenland is icy and cold. There have been many theories about how the island, along with nearby Iceland came to be named what they were. The secret lies with the Vikings who settled in Iceland and in many different areas of Northern Europe.
The Vikings were a race of Scandinavians who settled in many areas of Northern Europe. Although they are commonly portrayed as bloodthirsty warriors who pillaged, raided and raped their way through much of Europe they also had a thriving culture. While it is true that many of them were violent and blood thirsty there were also Viking traders and explorers as well.
They were able to explore much of Northern Europe using their famous long ships. The design of these ships was very different than many of the sailing vessels we are familiar with today. A Viking ship did not have a large keel like other sailing vessels did. This meant that it could sail in shallow rivers as well as at sea. Viking raiders were able to use their ships to penetrate inland and then attack outwards from there. In areas such as Ireland, this tactic proved to be exceptionally successful.
One Viking in particular, Erik the Red was very good at raiding and pillaging. Although history is somewhat sketchy, it is believed that he discovered Greenland after being sent away from Iceland in exile. This was rumored to have been his punishment for committing murder. He was able to settle in Greenland and survive there for several years. Finally, his exile was ended and he found that he wanted to settle the island more fully. For that, he needed to convince others to come with him. Erik the Red is believed to have lived from circa 950 to 1003CE.
Of course, when you tell someone that they will be travelling with you to a place that is barren, cold and inhospitable you may have trouble convincing even a Viking to come with you. So instead, Erik (according to popular legend) called the island Greenland and instead painted the island as being a wonderful place to settle.
There are other theories as to how Greenland got its name. One theory is that the “green” in Greenland is actually a translation error. The word “grunt” actually means ground and it could be that Greenland was meant to be named Gruntland (or ground land).
The island has never been heavily populated. Much of it is covered by a sheet of ice. The only area that is not covered in ice is only clear because the air is so dry that ice cannot form. Many Native cultures have used the island as a hunting ground and several nations have used the island as a strategic launching point or a base during various conflicts and wars.
The island is currently owned by Denmark despite previous attempts by the United States to purchase the island.
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09:49 AM
KidO Member
Posts: 1019 From: The Pacific Northwest Registered: Dec 2003
Originally posted by KidO: The island has never been heavily populated. Much of it is covered by a sheet of ice. The only area that is not covered in ice is only clear because the air is so dry that ice cannot form. Many Native cultures have used the island as a hunting ground and several nations have used the island as a strategic launching point or a base during various conflicts and wars.
That article doesn't take into account the Medieval Warm Period and the Little Ice Age's affects on the Greenland settlements.
To investigate the possibility of climatic cooling, scientists drilled into the Greenland ice caps to obtain core samples. The oxygen isotopes from the ice caps suggested that the Medieval Warm Period had caused a relatively milder climate in Greenland, lasting from roughly 800 to 1200. However from 1300 or so the climate began to cool. By 1420, we know that the "Little Ice Age" had reached intense levels in Greenland.[17] Excavations of midden or garbage heaps from the Viking farms in both Greenland and Iceland show the shift from the bones of cows and pigs to those of sheep and goats. As the winters lengthened, and the springs and summers shortened, there must have been less and less time for Greenlanders to grow hay. By the mid-14th century deposits from a chieftain’s farm showed a large number of cattle and caribou remains, whereas, a poorer farm only several kilometers away had no trace of domestic animal remains, only seal. Bone samples from Greenland Norse cemeteries confirm that the typical Greenlander diet had increased by this time from 20% sea animals to 80%.[18]
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10:34 AM
KidO Member
Posts: 1019 From: The Pacific Northwest Registered: Dec 2003
To investigate the possibility of climatic cooling, scientists drilled into the Greenland ice caps to obtain core samples. The oxygen isotopes from the ice caps suggested that the Medieval Warm Period had caused a relatively milder climate in Greenland, lasting from roughly 800 to 1200. However from 1300 or so the climate began to cool. By 1420, we know that the "Little Ice Age" had reached intense levels in Greenland.[17] Excavations of midden or garbage heaps from the Viking farms in both Greenland and Iceland show the shift from the bones of cows and pigs to those of sheep and goats. As the winters lengthened, and the springs and summers shortened, there must have been less and less time for Greenlanders to grow hay. By the mid-14th century deposits from a chieftain’s farm showed a large number of cattle and caribou remains, whereas, a poorer farm only several kilometers away had no trace of domestic animal remains, only seal. Bone samples from Greenland Norse cemeteries confirm that the typical Greenlander diet had increased by this time from 20% sea animals to 80%.[18]
A Wikipedia article??? Since when do they count?
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10:52 AM
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
Notes1.^ "Yanks Clear Greenland of Nazis,1944/12/27 (1944)". archive.org. http://www.archive.org/deta..._Greenland_of_Nazis. Retrieved 2 October 2010. 2.^ "Saqqaq culture chronology". Sila, the Greenland Research Centre at the National Museum of Denmark. http://www.natmus.dk/sw18632.asp. Retrieved 2 October 2010. 3.^ "Independence I". From natmus.dk. Sila, the Greenland Research Centre at the National Museum of Denmark. Retrieved September 3, 2008. 4.^ a b "Independence II" From natmus.dk. Sila, the Greenland Research Centre at the National Museum of Denmark. Retrieved September 3, 2008. 5.^ a b "Early Dorset/Greenlandic Dorset". From natmus.dk. Sila, the Greenland Research Centre at the National Museum of Denmark. Retrieved September 3, 2008. 6.^ a b "Late Dorset". From natmus.dk. Sila, the Greenland Research Centre at the National Museum of Denmark. Retrieved September 3, 2008. 7.^ Grove, Jonathan. "The place of Greenland in medieval Icelandic saga narrative", in Norse Greenland: Selected Papers of the Hvalsey Conference 2008, Journal of the North Atlantic Special Volume 2 (2009), 30–51 8.^ "Archeological Research on Vikings". http://www.edwatch.org/upda...081009-Vikingsw.htm. Retrieved 2011-09-28. 9.^ "Historic sites in Greenland". http://www.randburg.com/gr/nanocomm.html. Retrieved 2011-09-28. 10.^ Timeline of the history of Norse Greenland 11.^ a b The Fate of Greenland's Vikings 12.^ Transcription of the original letter (latin): Diplomatarium Norvegicum XIII p.52 Date: 29 August 1408. Place: Svartland. ("[...] Bertoldus eadem gracia episcopus Gardensis [...]") 13.^ Transcription of the original letter: Diplomatarium Norvegicum XIII p.70 Date: 12 February 1426. Place: Nidaros. 14.^ Transcription of the original letter: Diplomatarium Norvegicum VI p.554 Date: 20 Septbr. 1448. Place: Rom. Original DN summary: "Pave Nikolaus V paalægger Biskopperne af Skaalholt og Hole at sörge for at skaffe Indbyggerne i Grönland Prester og en Biskop, hvilken sidste de ikke have havt i de 30 Aar siden Hedningernes Indfald, da de fleste Kirker bleve ödelagte og Indbyggerne bortförte som Fanger." ("Pope Nicholas V prescribes the Bishops of Skálholt and Hólar to ensure to provide the inhabitants of Greenland priests and a bishop, which of the latter they haven't had in the 30 years since the coming of the heathens when most churches were destroyed and the inhabitants taken away as prisoners.) 15.^ Diamond, Jared (2005). Collapse: how societies choose to fail or succeed. Viking Press. p. 217. 16.^ Diamond, 2005: p. 222 17.^ William W. Fitzhugh and Elisabeth I. Ward, ed. (2000). Vikings: the North Atlantic saga. Washington: Smithsonian Institution Press in association with the National Museum of Natural History. p. 330. 18.^ Fitzhugh and Ward, 2000: p. 290 19.^ Fitzhugh and Ward, 2000: p. 336 20.^ Kendrick, Thomas Downing (1930). A History of the Vikings. New York: C. Scribner’s Sons. p. 366. 21.^ Grove, 2009: p. 40 22.^ Fitzhugh and Ward, 2000: p. 307 23.^ Fitzhugh and Ward, 2000: p. 315 24.^ Diamond, Jared (2005). Collapse: how societies choose to fail or succeed. Viking Press. p. 270. 25.^ Seaver (1995) The Frozen Echo p.205: a reference to sailors in Bergen in 1484 who had visited Greenland (Seaver speculates that they may have been English); p.229ff: archeological evidence of contact with Europe towards the end of the 15th century 26.^ "C-14 dating and the disappearance of Norsemen from Greenland". europhysicsnews.org. http://www.europhysicsnews....002/03/epn02301.pdf. Retrieved 2 October 2010. 27.^ a b c Keller, Christian. "The Eastern Settlement Reconsidered. Some analyses of Norse Medieval Greenland". Accessed 10 May 2012. 28.^ Inter alia, cf. Permanent Court of International Justice. "Legal Status of Eastern Greenland: Judgment". 5 Apr 1933. Accessed 10 May 2012. 29.^ a b Del, Anden. "Grønland som del af den bibelske fortælling – en 1700-tals studie" ["Greenland as Part of the Biblical Narrative – a Study of the 18th-Century"]. (Danish) 30.^ a b Cranz, David & al. The History of Greenland: including an account of the mission carried on by the United Brethren in that country. Longman, 1820. 31.^ Marquardt, Ole. "Change and Continuity in Denmark's Greenland Policy" in The Oldenburg Monarchy: An Underestimated Empire?. Verlag Ludwig (Kiel), 2006. 32.^ Mirsky, Jeannette. To the Arctic!: The Story of Northern Exploration from Earliest Times. Univ. of Chicago Press, 1998. 33.^ Nationalmuseet of Denmark. "Thule". 34.^ Farley Mowat, The Polar Passion: The Quest for the North Pole. McClelland and Stewart, 1967, pp. 199-222 35.^ Time Magazine Monday, January 27, 1947 “Deepfreeze Defense”: 36.^ National Review May 7, 2001 "Let’s Buy Greenland! – A complete missile-defense plan" By John J. Miller (National Review's National Political Reporter: 37.^ Taagholt, Jørgen & Jens Claus Hansen (Trans. Daniel Lufkin) (2001). "Greenland: Security Perspectives". Fairbanks, Alaska: Arctic Research Consortium of the United States. pp. 35–43. Archived from the original on 2009-05-04. http://www.arcus.org/public...loads/greenland.pdf. 38.^ Bode, Mike & al. "Nuuk". 2003. Accessed 15 May 2012. 39.^ "International relations". Archived from the original on 2007-02-21. http://web.archive.org/web/...onal_relations.aspx. Retrieved 2007-04-06. [edit] BibliographyDiamond, Jared. Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed. New York: Viking, 2005. ISBN 0-14-303655-6. Seaver, Kristen A The Frozen Echo Stanford University Press, 1996 ISBN 0-8047-3161-6 Grove, Jonathan. "The place of Greenland in medieval Icelandic saga narrative", in Norse Greenland: Selected Papers of the Hvalsey Conference 2008, Journal of the North Atlantic Special Volume 2 (2009), 30–51 Kendrick, Thomas Downing. A History of the Vikings. New York: C. Scribner’s Sons, 1930. The Complete sagas of Icelanders. Edited by Vidar Hreinsson; editorial team led by Robert Cook et al.; introduction by Robert Kellogg. Reykjavík: Leifur Eiríksson Publishers, 1997. Vikings: the North Atlantic Saga. Edited by William W. Fitzhugh and Elisabeth I. Ward. Washington: Smithsonian Institution Press in association with the National Museum of Natural History, 2000. Grønlands forhistorie, ed. Hans Christian Gulløv, National Museum of Denmark, Gyldendal, 2005. ISBN 87-02-01724-5. Greenland during the Cold War. Danish and American security policy 1945–1968. Copenhagen: Danish Institute of International Affairs (DUPI). 1997-01-17. ISBN 87-601-6922-2. http://lccn.loc.gov/97161960. [edit] External linksThe cultural history of Greenland – Information about the various cultures, from the Greenland Research Centre and the National Museum of Denmark What Happened to the Greenland Norse? – With video sequences, from the US National Museum of Natural History The Fate of Greenland's Vikings – Another account, from the Archaeological Institute of America History of Greenland – Traces the history of Greenland for 10th century to the present. Broken Arrow – The B-52 Accident – Account of the 1968 cleanup process Star Wars and Thule – Bringing the Cold War Back to Greenland – 2001 Greenpeace report. Timeline of the history of Norse Greenland History of Medieval Greenland and associated places, like Iceland and Vinland. (Danish) Grönlands historiske Mindesmærker
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10:55 AM
fierobear Member
Posts: 27106 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
Extent of surface melt over Greenland’s ice sheet on July 8 (left) and July 12 (right). Measurements from three satellites showed that on July 8, about 40 percent of the ice sheet had undergone thawing at or near the surface. In just a few days, the melting had dramatically accelerated and an estimated 97 percent of the ice sheet surface had thawed by July 12. In the image, the areas classified as “probable melt” (light pink) correspond to those sites where at least one satellite detected surface melting. The areas classified as “melt” (dark pink) correspond to sites where two or three satellites detected surface melting. The satellites are measuring different physical properties at different scales and are passing over Greenland at different times. As a whole, they provide a picture of an extreme melt event about which scientists are very confident. Credit: Nicolo E. DiGirolamo, SSAI/NASA GSFC, and Jesse Allen, NASA Earth Observatory More at link.
wow - that is a MAJOR change in just 4 days. I would hope that one or the other is just mistaken data. I've seen snow piles outside hockey rinks in the summer not impacted that quickly.
wow - that is a MAJOR change in just 4 days. I would hope that one or the other is just mistaken data. I've seen snow piles outside hockey rinks in the summer not impacted that quickly.
Keep in mind it's merely showing places where melting is occurring not that the ice or snow have melted completely.
Nope, I just thought it ironic that fierobear would use a wikipedia article. I am pretty certain that he has argued against them in the past.
... but I guess when it supports your position, all is fair???
note: everybody knows that wikipedia is written with liberal bias
Wikipedia is not a reliable source on it's own. It's only as reliable as the citations quoted. Throwing up a Wiki page with 1 or 2 dubious sources, you deserve to be ridiculed.
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09:44 PM
fierobear Member
Posts: 27106 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
Wikipedia is not a reliable source on it's own. It's only as reliable as the citations quoted. Throwing up a Wiki page with 1 or 2 dubious sources, you deserve to be ridiculed.
I keep forgetting that trying to have an adult conversation with kido is a waste of time. His nickname is apt.
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11:36 PM
Jul 26th, 2012
KidO Member
Posts: 1019 From: The Pacific Northwest Registered: Dec 2003
Wikipedia is not a reliable source on it's own. It's only as reliable as the citations quoted. Throwing up a Wiki page with 1 or 2 dubious sources, you deserve to be ridiculed.
I am pretty certain that you mean throwing up a Wiki page with 1 or 2 sources that don't support your opinion. Dubious sources are a matter of opinion, not a matter of fact. I'm sure you already knew that though.
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01:06 AM
KidO Member
Posts: 1019 From: The Pacific Northwest Registered: Dec 2003
Your really not worth the time, but your lack of insight and self-absorbed opinion intrigue me.
Here are the SOURCES, which are contained in the paragraph I posted, you moron.
William W. Fitzhugh and Elisabeth I. Ward, ed. (2000). Vikings: the North Atlantic saga. Washington: Smithsonian Institution Press in association with the National Museum of Natural History. p. 330.
Fitzhugh and Ward, 2000: p. 290
Diamond, Jared (2005). Collapse: how societies choose to fail or succeed. Viking Press. p. 222
no...just man caused global warming. Solar cycles is very real history shows this. We had a pre-ice age, then a ice age, then it thawed, then a warming period, then it cooled, now its warming. You think people were running around screaming about Co2 during the first big thaw?
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01:30 AM
KidO Member
Posts: 1019 From: The Pacific Northwest Registered: Dec 2003
Here are the SOURCES, which are contained in the paragraph I posted, you moron.
William W. Fitzhugh and Elisabeth I. Ward, ed. (2000). Vikings: the North Atlantic saga. Washington: Smithsonian Institution Press in association with the National Museum of Natural History. p. 330.
Fitzhugh and Ward, 2000: p. 290
Diamond, Jared (2005). Collapse: how societies choose to fail or succeed. Viking Press. p. 222
Now, now, that wasn't very nice... I know that Wiki articles have cited sources. This particular entry even cites sources that you agree with! You are like a broken record. We all know what you are going to say before you say it. The fact that you discount one Wiki article while praising another is just another example of your hypocrisy.
Since when do they count?
