Hello all!

I figure it is my turn to tap into the wealth of collective knowledge and experience that is OT.

I am looking for a vehicle. Here is some background info: I am a student going to a school in town at the moment, but when I graduate in November, I plan on going to a school out of state, and I need a car to get to work. I need a car with more seating capacity than my Fiero. 4 seats is fine. I need a car that is new(er) than my Fiero, therefore being more reliable and dependable and needs less (or no) repairs. I need a car that is going to get at least 20ish MPG HWY.

Here are my preferences. I would prefer to stick to Domestic brands. I would prefer rear wheel drive and two doors. I would prefer a V8 and a standard transmission.

I would like to stay away from SUVs. Trucks are OK.

My price range is 4k-6k

Here are my current considerations in order from strongest contender to weakest:

Lexus SC400- I figure it is going to be very reliable, plus its RWD, coupe, V8, Leather seats ect.
Jeep Cherokee Sport- My only exception to Suv's.
Ford F250- I am looking at fleet trucks- I would prefer a Diesel/Single cab
Ford Crown Victoria- Once again. Fleet vehicle

That's basically it.

I would like to hear any and all suggestions. Does anyone have any experience with any of the cars I have mentioned? I am looking hard at the Lexus.

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1986 SE V6 Auto. 114K miles.
1995 F-150 4.9l Straight 6, Port and polished head, oversize valves, mild cam.

i owned a cherokee. very reliable, went anywhere, any time. it had a 4.0 inline 6, 5 speed manual, got 22 highway mpg, 26 at best when scrupulously maintained.

I appreciated the input. My only concerns with the Cherokee's are that most of them are getting up there in age these days, and finding a 4x4 in decent shape is getting tougher as well.

cherokee sport is going to be your best bet.. dead reliable not to harsh on gas and will go anywhere... id also sugest a wrangler... there a ton of fun as well.. as for milage on either of them... really not a big deal.. the I6 can go for hundreds of thousands of miles as long as there taken care of.

[This message has been edited by pontiackid86 (edited 07-01-2012).]

wait, i'm confused. you obviously prefer the lexus, but say you want domestic. you want seating for more than 2, but mention pickup trucks. the cherokee is on your list, but theyre getting too old.

get the lexus. you want it.

[This message has been edited by lurker (edited 07-01-2012).]

Well, the Lexus isn't without its issues. I am only interested in the newest models (98-00) which are hard to find in my price range.

I am really looking for cars I haven't considered

The only thing I can think of that really matches the criteria (your list doesn't match your own criteria) would be late model pony cars. Specifically 99-03 Mustang GT's and 98-02 F-bodies.

I would really consider a Toyota Matrix...they will haul 4 (or a sheet of ply with the back seat folded), arent real spendy to fix, and good on gas. They arent domestic, and not particularly sporty or flashy, but they are a good solid workhorse of a small car.

Pontiac Vibe instead?

Why not front wheel drive? Chrysler 300? Mercury Cougar (last generation-my wife sure misses hers)? Ford Focus? Neon SRT-4? Cobalt SS?

[This message has been edited by carnut122 (edited 07-02-2012).]

Lexus is expensive to fix (parts and labor). Any 4x4 costs twice as much to fix over 2wd. Of your 4 choices, i think the old reliable Crown Vic is good pick. Runs forever, cheap to fix and decent gas mileage. I think hes naming some pickups because you can get crew/extended cab for more seats.

quote Originally posted by rogergarrison: Lexus is expensive to fix (parts and labor). Any 4x4 costs twice as much to fix over 2wd. Of your 4 choices, i think the old reliable Crown Vic is good pick. Runs forever, cheap to fix and decent gas mileage. I think hes naming some pickups because you can get crew/extended cab for more seats.

Very often you can pick up nice used Grand Marquis(Crown Vic) that have been scrupliously maintained by an older driver at very reasonable prices.
Sure, your friends will make comments about "driving your dads car", but for affordable reliable transportation, they're hard to beat.
These cars routinely run well into the 300,000 mile range- thats why they're used as Taxis and cop cars.
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Drive safely!

[This message has been edited by NEPTUNE (edited 07-02-2012).]

quote Originally posted by rogergarrison: Lexus is expensive to fix (parts and labor). Any 4x4 costs twice as much to fix over 2wd. Of your 4 choices, i think the old reliable Crown Vic is good pick. Runs forever, cheap to fix and decent gas mileage. I think hes naming some pickups because you can get crew/extended cab for more seats.

I can't imagine a Lexus would be any more expensive to fix than any other Toyota, but then again I have no first hand experience.

I am confused. None of your four optios that you listed do not meet the reqirements you outlined.

Requirements
At least 20ish MPG HWY.
Domestic
Rear wheel drive
Two doors
V8
Standard shift
No SUV's

Vehicles otlined and why they do not meet requirements:

Lexus SC400: Import Brand
Jeep Cherokee Sport: SUV, No V8 Option.
Ford F250: Not realistically possilbe to meet to 20+ mpg highway with a 3/4 ton truck
Ford Crown Victoria: four door, automatic only

I would suggest that your requirements for a vehicle be refined or you need to look at other vehicles.

The only vehicles that I can think of off the top of my head would be Mustangs, Corvettes, Camaros, Firebirds/TransAm's. Once you decide which requimrents are not truely a requirement the filed can be opened up a lot more.

quote Originally posted by BlackEmrald: I can't imagine a Lexus would be any more expensive to fix than any other Toyota, but then again I have no first hand experience.

YUP...its all about branding. Same reason a Cadilac or Buick part will cost twice what a Chev part costs, even though its identical right down to the packaging--sometimes not even a different part #....You ask for a "x" for a caddy or an "x" for a chev, and you are getting the same box but charged more because you asked for caddy.

You can get an older P71 for less than $4k. Look for an ex-detective car. They're not generally in a lot of high speed chases but they're still outfitted the same as the regular cop cars (which is the P71). They're fairly generic looking but that's part of what makes them cheap. Like NEPTUNE said, you can see 300k miles out of them with some basic maintenance. I've been looking for that special deal for a while. Nothing I'd be willing to part with a body part for but the deals are out there if you're willing to look and have some patience.

Another good one (alabiet a bit pricey to fix) is the 2001-2002 ect era Buick Century. Kinda wish I still had mine, but the body was starting to go. If you find a Limited you get full leather, power everything, it just floats on the highway, plenty of room for 5, pulls a trailer no problem, and can be done up into a nice "ganster/opera" ride for not much money...black-out windows and stock chrome trim, some decent rims (no, NOT 32" idiot wheels, stock size or maybe one size up) and a slight drop on the front to give it a bit of an aggressive stance, and you got a sweet looking cruiser.

Well Hank, let me make sure I clarify.

My only REQUIREMENTS are the car has to be reliable and be able to seat more than two, and get decent gas mileage.

everything else were preferences. Things that I would like to have, but don't necessarily need. I simply said those things so people could recommend any vehicles I may have overlooked.

Make sense, Hank?

What about an older CTS? Kinda like the Lexus except it gives up the V8 and gets you a domestic car?

maybe we could be more help if we knew what you wanted the vehicle to do.
where are you going to do most of your driving? city? highway? back roads?
who is going to maintain the car? you? a mechanic?
how many people are you planning to carry? all adults?

quote Originally posted by 1988holleyformula: What about an older CTS? Kinda like the Lexus except it gives up the V8 and gets you a domestic car?

Good luck finding one under 10k lol.

Did you mean like a DeVille?

I think there are some big questions that need to be answered to narrow down your choices.

1. What kind of weather will you be driving in? Any snow or heavy rains? If so, you want ABS and maybe traction control.
2. What kind of terrain will be driving on? If it is all city streets then a RWD car will be fine. If you occasionally have to drive to a cabin in the woods, you will want something with 4WD/AWD and maybe some ground clearance. Put a second check next to 4WD/AWD if you plan to drive in snow.
3. How much cargo room do you need? If you plan on moving big things like a couch, then you need a minimum of a station wagon, lifted station wagon(SUV), truck, minivan or a car that can tow a trailer.

quote Originally posted by theBDub: Good luck finding one under 10k lol. Did you mean like a DeVille?

I'm currently in the market for a new car, and I kinda had my own 10k price range in mind. But they can be found for $5000 with 150,000 miles.

[my cars.com search link won't work right here, idk why.]


Kinda takes away from the reliability part though, and they'd be expensive to fix most likely. But I've driven a few of them, and I really liked the way they drive for an entry-level luxury automobile, which is what I'm in the market for. (Right now I'm really leaning towards a 00-04 BMW 330xi in the 10-12k range)

[This message has been edited by 1988holleyformula (edited 07-02-2012).]

I've owned a total of 5 Jeep Cherokees. Make dern sure it's a 4.0 Inline 6, AW4 auto trans, and NP232 T-case. My highest mileage XJ had 289,000 on it. Still ran great. The best years are 95-96, and 00-01. If you go look at one, check for rust. Rust on the rockers, rust on the floorboards. Because XJs are uniframe, any rust causes a loss of structural integrity. Also, listen for a squeaky waterpump. These are a very common issue on XJs with 4.0s. A little lifter tappage is normal over 150,000 miles. Never hurts the engine from what I've seen. Cherokees in short, I'd highly reccomend.

However, the Ford Crown Vic, I might not. I had a 99 P71 Police Package with 115,000 miles on it when I got it, and from the day I got it, I had transmission issues. Maybe that was just mine though. It was a comfy vehicle, but only got 18mpg mixed at best.

I know you said RWD but the later Grand Prixs and Bonnevilles are descent cars, as long as they've had good upkeep. And they're usually pretty cheap. Just a thought.

Your preferences say "Mustang GT"
Though your price range means either higher miles or older model. I have a 2002 GT with 5 speed, ~80k miles right now.
I get 24-27 interstate MPG and 18-21 mixed driving (bone stock, so 3.27 gear, stock exhaust, etc).

More usable space than a 4th gen Camaro too (had a 98 for a while)

Otherwise, the Non-V CTS isn't a bad car and will be WAY cheaper than a CTS-V (though not sure about <6grand)
You might be able to find some earlier examples of Chrysler's LS platform (Magnum, 300, Charger) but no stick shift in those models.

Just about everything else in your price bracket will be FWD or a truck. Trust me, I've been there (it's why I have a Mustang, it fit my criteria: V8, RWD, manual trans and <$13,000 at the time, I bought it with 38k miles).

quote Originally posted by NEPTUNE: Very often you can pick up nice used Grand Marquis(Crown Vic) that have been scrupliously maintained by an older driver at very reasonable prices. Sure, your friends will make comments about "driving your dads car", but for affordable reliable transportation, they're hard to beat. These cars routinely run well into the 300,000 mile range- thats why they're used as Taxis and cop cars.

Or the Lincoln Town Car. They last forever and will continue to with proper care.

The downside: Not as fuel thrifty as the Government Motors Chevy Volt.

As far as the Lexus goes, I would recommend the straight 6 in the SC300 over the SC400-430. Same engine as the Supra, so lots of aftermarket, and the lighter weight engine provides for better balanced handling. But it really doesn't sound like you have any dealbreakers in mind. I think the most practical cars are tall wagons like the Pontiac Vibe, Kia Rondo, and my beloved PT Cruiser GT. none of those cars will get you laid unless you like senior citizens, but they can comfortably seat 5 and haul a bunch of stuff while returning decent gas mileage.

Another worth looking for would be an 04-07 Magnum. Great gas mileage, loads of van size room, seats 5, nice ride and since their discontinued their price as dropped considerably. Its RWD. Same exact platform and equipment as Charger , 300, and Challenger. There not your grandpas station wagon either. You should be able to find one in that price range.

I've got an '06 Crown Vic P73 (base/fleet). It's pretty comfortable, seats 6, gets nearly 30mpg on the highway, and doesn't attract nearly as much attention as my red RX8.

The lexus is half a pig
A diesel F250 will get somewhere in the neighborhood of 14mpg - a gasser will get around the same but won't be able to pull itself out of a wet blanket and they're expensive on upkeep (just trust me).
Cherokees are hard to find in good shape nowadays.

This reminds me of a friend I have - half of his facebook posts were bitching about how his Jeep sucked on gas, the other half was him bragging about his new swamp tires or how he spent a whole day mudding ... Then he blew out his knee and had to get an automatic, so he started looking at diesel trucks and other crap. I told him to get a VW TDI and to enjoy getting 50mpg all the time. He got a 1.8T instead, but it's a nice car anyway.

Lexus sucks. I had a Toyota, their reliability isn't exactly true. They can go for a very long time without needing any work, true. But like any car, parts fail, and when they do....prepare to pay $300+ for just basic sensors. $1000+ for parts like a MAF, etc, that tend to go out with at least some regularity. It isn't worth it. And well, Lexus'es aren't very sporty. In fact it surprises me that the SC400 comes in a stick, I thought they were all slush.

I'll say my car, though you probably won't consider it at all. Chevy Sonic, its brand-new, 4-cylinder turbo 6-speed that I'm getting 37-38 mpg in in mixed driving. Its fun to drive, seats 5, hauls pretty much everything I need, sips gas, and did I say fun to drive? Having a turbo to spool and a 6-speed manual really helps make a car fun . Its also the most solid built GM I've ever driven (the '00 Z28 I had 10 years ago felt like it was held together with zip ties, by comparison) and drives like a much more expensive car. Very solid over bumps, can't hear much wind or road noise, etc.

quote Originally posted by Tinton: I'll say my car, though you probably won't consider it at all. Chevy Sonic, its brand-new, 4-cylinder turbo 6-speed that I'm getting 37-38 mpg in in mixed driving. Its fun to drive, seats 5, hauls pretty much everything I need, sips gas, and did I say fun to drive? Having a turbo to spool and a 6-speed manual really helps make a car fun . Its also the most solid built GM I've ever driven (the '00 Z28 I had 10 years ago felt like it was held together with zip ties, by comparison) and drives like a much more expensive car. Very solid over bumps, can't hear much wind or road noise, etc.

What trim level is yours? My dad was trying to get me to buy a new one of those (diehard GM owner that he is), and I just hated the plain-jane styling of the lower level trims. Once you get to the LZ trim with the foglights and other little things that make the car aesthetically pleasing, you're nearly up to 20k with all the paperwork that comes with a dealer car.

They do look like they would be awesome to drive, not sure how they'd handle the Duluth snow. Probably as well as any other FWD econo-car.

Well, my first thought is to get something economical and cheap... like a 2-3 year old Chevy Malibu. Cheap, reliable, low miles, etc.


But with respect to two of your recommendations:

Jeep Cherokee: I loved that SUV... I really do. It certainly doesn't get good gas mileage. While they are pretty durable, heavy duty, and reliable... the newest one is already 11 years old (2001).
Even though it's an older car, they still hold their value so there's a market for them. You're going to end up paying a good chunk of change for something that's fairly ragged out unless you can really do some searching.

Crown Victoria: I have one, it's a 2002 LX, with about 40k miles on it right now. They are great cars... and of course, you know how durable they are. Mine gets 28.2 miles to the gallon... but it's pretty well modified. With what I've done to it, it runs pretty consistent low 15s all day long. Maybe even high 14s on a good day.

Either way, you can get some real good deals on these right now, as long as you're willing to drive. There are a lot of these owned by old people (including Grand Marquis) that they are unloading now. Really... the Crown Victorias (the nice ones) are actually getting harder to find since they haven't sold him here since 2007 I believe. but hte Grand Marquis was being made up until just last November, so there's a lot of low mileage used ones...


Honestly though... there's something to be said for having a small economical mid-sized car that's reliable and not a project car.


Todd

The only thing I see super wrong with your original list - and since it seems that you do really want the SC Lex so I'm going to comment on that - is you're going to find that you are going to run into two situations with that car. One, you will find one in your price range, but it'll be super beat up. Or, you are going to find a super nice one, but it be no where near your price range. Especially the "later" models when stuff started changing on them, they can get super pricey for really good examples.

I have owned/driven every car on your list, and I personally from your list have to go with the Cherokee too. My 4x4 Cherokee was probably one of the best vehicles I've owned. Don't be scared off by age. If you take care of them, they hold together very well.

quote Originally posted by 1988holleyformula: What trim level is yours? My dad was trying to get me to buy a new one of those (diehard GM owner that he is), and I just hated the plain-jane styling of the lower level trims. Once you get to the LZ trim with the foglights and other little things that make the car aesthetically pleasing, you're nearly up to 20k with all the paperwork that comes with a dealer car. They do look like they would be awesome to drive, not sure how they'd handle the Duluth snow. Probably as well as any other FWD econo-car.

LT , personally I think the base model isn't that bad. Cutting edge features don't really sell me though, I care more about how a car drives. I drove a Hyundai Veloster with more features and "better" interior and just didn't like it. It drove like an appliance. I'm the type of guy who's never liked new cars, I've always believed that they're just getting more numb and bloated. The instant I drove the Sonic it changed my mind, best handling FWD car I've ever driven. In terms of handling/braking/accelerating, its fun like the Fiero, and that's saying a lot. FWD understeer can be annoying and it doesn't have all the handling dynamics that the Fiero has, but it makes up for that with a turbo and 6-speed . When buying it, that's what I set out to get, not a N/A or automatic. Ended up finding one myself up in NC and getting it delivered here, paid sticker ($16,7) for it and it had nearly 0 miles. I originally wanted a white one with sunroof and foglights, but I would've had to order it and I'd still be waiting. Mine has cruise and connectivity package which includes bluetooth which was the only option I REALLY wanted anyways.

Duluth snow might not be too bad, I haven't gotten to test it out in snow yet. The turbo does spool quick and at low RPM so it might make taking off difficult.

I don't have time to post a big thing giving you all the details everyone is looking for, but I wanted to say I have been reading the replies and this is exactly the information I was looking for.

I will post later today about all the details.

Here were some more cars I think meet my wants (idk about needs)

Ford Thunderbird- V8, RWD, coupe but are they good cars?
Ford Focus SVT- good millage, 6 speed, seating capacity
Chevy S10 Blazer- just something about these I have always really liked, Is a 4x4 worth it on this car?
GM Roadmaster/caprice- V8, RWD

What do you think?

I owned a '96 Jimmy (upscale Blazer) and currently own an '04 Blazer. Both had/have the 4.3. Those are damn near bulletproof motors (the '96 had 171k when I sold it and it's still out there 5 years later) and the Blazer has 85k with almost zero problems. They'll go anywhere, too. The only drawback is the gas mileage. Both were/are 4 wheel drive which I rarely engage and I drive like someone's granny. I get a solid 16.8 mpg average. Highway, I can get about 22 and in town it's about 14. You just won't get any better. I'll drive my Blazer until the wheels fall off (which at my rate will be another 15-20 years or so) and probably won't spend a grand in fixes (other than oil/tires/brakes). Two of the known issues are front wheel bearings (on the 4x4s) and ball joints (also on the 4x4s). If you're willing/able to change ball joints yourself, you can do the entire front end for about $100. They'll need them every 70k miles or so. Figure on new wheel bearings every 50k or so. Again, they're easy to change on your own. I did the last one in my garage with minimal hand tools and a Walmart floor jack. Bottom line is the Blazer ('95+ only) is dead reliable but the gas mileage sucks. Watch out for the 1st gen trucks. They aren't nearly as reliable and prone to rust. The ZR2s had a factory 3" suspension lift and came stock with 31s and a wider front track (to accomodate the taller rubber). You can easily find one in great shape (with 100k miles or less) in your price range. '05 was the last year for the Blazer. The Chevy S10/GMC Sonoma were the pick ups and were mechanically identical. The S10/Sonoma/Blazer/Jimmy were identical from the dash forward. There were about a bazillion S10/Blazers built and the parts are plentiful and cheap.

I could use all the input I can get, this is a big decision for me

The SVT focus is a very nice car. Make sure you get the EAP and winter packages. Go on focusfanatics and get a tune from tom on there and you will love it. Cosworth did the engine on those cars, Dont replace the exhauat either. Do a cat delete and 2nd muffler delete and enjoy. Make sure its has the clutch TSB done or at least has a nice smooth clutch action.

My only question about the focus is this: Since I have never really been in to the "hot hatch" scene, are there better or more sporty options available in my price range?