With the government having the power to MANDATE that we must purchase something under penalty of law, government now has unlimited power. This is VERY bad, folks.
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10:15 AM
PFF
System Bot
fierobear Member
Posts: 27105 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
SUPREME COURT RULES: Mandate survives as a tax... Chief Justice Roberts joins the left of the Court... The Medicaid provision is limited but not invalidated... 'Congress had the power to impose the exaction in Section 5000A under the taxing power, and that Section 5000A need not be read to do more than impose a tax. This is sufficient to sustain it. '
"The court reinforces that individuals can simply refuse to pay the tax and not comply with the mandate."
So we can just refuse to pay our taxes......Yea like that is going to go well.
I can't say I am surprised. Disappointed yes, as my own health care costs per year just went from nearly zero, to approx $3200 per year. So much for Obamacare decreasing my costs. Someone else will be spending my part of OPM--nothing new there--that's what they do. Nannystateism..
OTOH, I think this is a good thing as far as the election goes. It bodes badly IMO for Obama's re-election chances.
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10:27 AM
cliffw Member
Posts: 37812 From: Bandera, Texas, USA Registered: Jun 2003
Originally posted by fierobear: With the government having the power to MANDATE that we must purchase something under penalty of law ...
That's not true. The mandate was struck down under the Commerce Clause and the General Welfare Clause ("necessary and proper for the populace"). The punitive punishments are thrown out including the punishment (of withholding Medicare funding) of states which do not participate in the expansion of Medicare. However, the requirement to purchase insurance stands in the form of a tax. WTF ? They can now tax you for doing nothing, for your behavior ? How the hell do they tax you ? Most if not every tax is based on a dollar amount, .
I can't say I am surprised. Disappointed yes, as my own health care costs per year just went from nearly zero, to approx $3200 per year. So much for Obamacare decreasing my costs. Someone else will be spending my part of OPM--nothing new there--that's what they do. Nannystateism..
OTOH, I think this is a good thing as far as the election goes. It bodes badly IMO for Obama's re-election chances.
I don't deny we could improve our medical system, as nothing is *perfect* and there is always room for improvement, but eliminating our rights isn't the way to do it.
That's not true. The mandate was struck down under the Commerce Clause and the General Welfare Clause ("necessary and proper for the populace"). The punitive punishments are thrown out including the punishment (of withholding Medicare funding) of states which do not participate in the expansion of Medicare. However, the requirement to purchase insurance stands in the form of a tax. WTF ? They can now tax you for doing nothing, for your behavior ? How the hell do they tax you ? Most if not every tax is based on a dollar amount, .
its all just semantics, they have *total* control now.
How does that go again, 'this is how it dies... with cheering...'
I don't deny we could improve our medical system, as nothing is *perfect* and there is always room for improvement, but eliminating our rights isn't the way to do it.
So would have been OK with adding a tax to pay for it?
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10:35 AM
fierobear Member
Posts: 27105 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
All Americans will be required to purchase medical insurance now. If they don't they will have to pay a penalty. The law doesn't become fully in effect until 2014. The expansion of Medicare coverage was struck down as being unconstitutional, but that part of the law was supposed to have covered those without insurance. The way I see it, the poor got screwed because now they won't be covered by Medicare expansion that was supposed to cover them, and now they will have to buy medical insurance (by law) or pay a penalty.
[This message has been edited by avengador1 (edited 06-28-2012).]
Originally posted by avengador1: The way I see it, the poor got screwed because now they won't be covered by Medicare expansion that was supposed to cover them, and now they will have to buy medical insurance (by law) or pay a penalty.
Interesting view, hmm. How are they gonna tax us ? What tax is not based on a dollar amount ? How will they determine that amount ?
quote
Originally posted by Bullet: 'Congress had the power to impose the exaction in Section 5000A under the taxing power, and that Section 5000A need not be read to do more than impose a tax. This is sufficient to sustain it. '
My quick search for IRS Tax code section 5000A brings up "blah blah blah" and that was a synopsis. What does it say ?
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10:45 AM
Bullet Member
Posts: 797 From: Douglasville, GA Registered: Jul 2007
The decision leaves in place the so-called individual mandate -- the requirement on Americans to have or buy health insurance beginning in 2014 or face a penalty -- although many are exempt from that provision.
In 2014, the penalty will be $285 per family or 1% of income, whichever is greater. By 2016, it goes up to $2,085 per family or 2.5% of income.
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10:52 AM
cliffw Member
Posts: 37812 From: Bandera, Texas, USA Registered: Jun 2003
With the government having the power to MANDATE that we must purchase something under penalty of law, government now has unlimited power. This is VERY bad, folks.
Hmmm, let's see. Government been eyeing all that 401K money, mandate that you convert 10% into a government guaranteed retirement bond. Mandate that you only buy green energy, just for starters. Mandate you turn in all your gold for US dollars. Where could this ever stop?
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10:57 AM
fierobear Member
Posts: 27105 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
What provision ? I know, I am asking too many questions too soon.
quote
The decision leaves in place the so-called individual mandate -- the requirement on Americans to have or buy health insurance beginning in 2014 or face a penalty -- although many are exempt from that provision.
In 2014, the penalty will be $285 per family or 1% of income, whichever is greater. By 2016, it goes up to $2,085 per family or 2.5% of income.
So what is the penalty for not paying this "tax"? The penalty for not paying other taxes is fines, seizure of your property and ultimately incarceration.
The decision leaves in place the so-called individual mandate -- the requirement on Americans to have or buy health insurance beginning in 2014 or face a penalty -- although many are exempt from that provision.
In 2014, the penalty will be $285 per family or 1% of income, whichever is greater. By 2016, it goes up to $2,085 per family or 2.5% of income.
Just in time for Obama's replacement to take the blame
I wouldn't have bought insurance for a few years if this wasn't in place, but I will now (well, in 2014)... might as well.
Hmmm, let's see. Government been eyeing all that 401K money, mandate that you convert 10% into a government guaranteed retirement bond. Mandate that you only buy green energy, just for starters. Mandate you turn in all your gold for US dollars. Where could this ever stop?
Clothes you buy, where you live, what gun you don't get to buy...
So what is the penalty for not paying this "tax"? The penalty for not paying other taxes is fines, seizure of your property and ultimately incarceration.
I dont think you can be jailed for not paying your taxes. However, im sure there is some way around it if the wanted to try hard enough.
Expect garnishment of wages off the top. And tax refund withholding's.
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11:07 AM
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
If the IRS can demonstrate that the individual or company willfully did not file in an attempt to evade taxation, the IRS can pursue a felony conviction, which could include a fine of up to $100,000 and a maximum prison sentence of five years.
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11:12 AM
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
Originally posted by Formula88: If the IRS can demonstrate that the individual or company willfully did not file in an attempt to evade taxation, the IRS can pursue a felony conviction, which could include a fine of up to $100,000 and a maximum prison sentence of five years.
Right but that is different than just not paying it which is what i was talking about
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11:30 AM
texasfiero Member
Posts: 4674 From: Houston, TX USA Registered: Jun 2003
Originally posted by User00013170: Right but that is different than just not paying it which is what i was talking about
Let me guess, you read my quote and ignored the link? (and people wonder why others quote entire articles)
quote
Tax evasion includes failing to report taxable income, reporting income inaccurately, or illegally avoiding paying taxes. The most common method of tax evasion is failing to report taxable income, especially cash income. But however you evade paying taxes, the government takes a dim view of it and imposes serious penalties.
Punishment for tax fraud can include large civil penalties, criminal fines, and even imprisonment. If you are concerned that your accountant is being too aggressive in tax planning for your business, consult an attorney experienced in taxation to help you walk the line between legal tax avoidance and illegal tax evasion.
Illegally avoiding paying taxes can land you in jail. Понимаешь?
Lol, it suggested that I couldn't get insurance because I have a pre-exising condition. I guess it doesn't factor in that some people just don't want health insurance yet
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11:46 AM
PFF
System Bot
Pyrthian Member
Posts: 29569 From: Detroit, MI Registered: Jul 2002
Originally posted by theBDub: Lol, it suggested that I couldn't get insurance because I have a pre-exising condition. I guess it doesn't factor in that some people just don't want health insurance yet
yes...young adults shouldn't need it.
but, just like everyone is forced into PL/PD with auto ins, just to subsidize those who want full coverage. make the pools bigger....
I dont like it either. but, I dont like it because I think the whole "Insurance" scam should be illegal.....
Lol, it suggested that I couldn't get insurance because I have a pre-exising condition. I guess it doesn't factor in that some people just don't want health insurance yet
Depends on where you work, some do just that.
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12:05 PM
Bullet Member
Posts: 797 From: Douglasville, GA Registered: Jul 2007
The U.S. Supreme Court ruling to uphold the core of President Barack Obama's 2010 healthcare law on Thursday has wide-ranging political and economic implications. Here is a snap analysis of what it means for Americans, healthcare providers, insurers, the law and the presidential campaign.
How does the ruling affect the average American?
* Working families with annual household incomes up to nearly $90,000 will be able to purchase private insurance through new state insurance markets at prices subsidized according to income level, beginning in 2014. But people with household incomes of around $29,000, who qualify for coverage under the Medicaid government health insurance program for the poor, may have to wait for their respective state governments to decide whether they will join the program's huge expansion. Preventive healthcare measures including mammograms and other cancer screenings will be available without deductibles or co-pays. Adult children up to age 26 can remain on their parents' health insurance plans. Senior citizens can expect to continue receiving discounts on prescription drugs aimed at closing the Medicare coverage gap known as the "doughnut hole." Health insurers will continue to pay rebates on premiums not sufficiently targeted at healthcare services. Beginning in 2014, insurers will no longer be able to deny coverage to adults with pre-existing medical conditions and would be required to stop or curb discriminatory pricing based on gender, age and health status.
What about healthcare providers?
* The ruling removes one cloud of uncertainty over the future of healthcare reform and would help the administration's efforts to implement it fully by Jan. 1, 2014, when the law is scheduled to go into effect. Under the decision, physicians and hospitals continue to move away from the traditional fee-for-service healthcare business model and toward more efficient systems that coordinate care. For healthcare providers, the affirmation represents millions of potential new patients, either through private plans or the government's Medicaid program for the poor. Some, however, would be under added pressure to enact more savings, which could cut into revenues. The administration still faces some fairly tall hurdles, such as establishing regulated health insurance markets in all 50 states so consumers can purchase subsidized coverage. Up until now, over a dozen states have done little or nothing to create such exchanges, partly because of the uncertainty over the fate of the law. Down the road, if Republicans succeed in taking control of the White House and the Senate in November (they already control the House of Representatives), they would likely try to repeal the law in 2013.
Where does the ruling leave health insurers?
* The health insurance industry can expect premium revenue from millions of new, healthy customers through state exchanges. But the industry will also have to operate with new consumer protections that require coverage access for people with pre-existing medical conditions and other health status issues, and mandate preventive care without customary charges.
How might the ruling influence the presidential campaign?
* This is a big victory for Obama, who has weathered years of criticism from conservatives about his reforms. The decision could energize the president and his supporters, while undercutting presumptive Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney, who introduced similar reforms as Massachusetts governor but opposes their use as national policy. But there could be a silver lining for Republicans: the opinion could light a fire under party candidates and constituents who want a president who would repeal the law in 2013.
I wonder how that effects state laws that have already made the health care plan illegal? In Ohio was just recently passed issue 1 which (supposedly) made it illegal here. I know other states have done the same.
How might the ruling influence the presidential campaign?
* This is a big victory for Obama, who has weathered years of criticism from conservatives about his reforms. The decision could energize the president and his supporters, while undercutting presumptive Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney, who introduced similar reforms as Massachusetts governor but opposes their use as national policy. But there could be a silver lining for Republicans: the opinion could light a fire under party candidates and constituents who want a president who would repeal the law in 2013.
SCOTUS just pissed off about 30-40 percent of the population and they weren't just Republicans and conservatives... it will be an interesting November.
? They can now tax you for doing nothing, for your behavior ? How the hell do they tax you ? Most if not every tax is based on a dollar amount, 
.
