This is an honest request. As an independent it's easy for me to find both good and bad on both sides, although mostly bad lately on both sides. I know that conservatives can be just as smart as anyone else so this is not meant as a put down, but on the forum I'm left with the impression that the conservative posters here NEVER find any thing wrong with a republican position. I would love to find out that I am misinformed and that conservatives and republicans can have an open mind.
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12:00 PM
PFF
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texasfiero Member
Posts: 4674 From: Houston, TX USA Registered: Jun 2003
You need to do some research. There are multiple posts from the conservatives here regarding the RINO element within the Republican establishment. If you trully want an answer to your question, "Seek, and ye shall find".
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12:09 PM
fierobear Member
Posts: 27116 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
Still not looking for an argument. Aren't rino posts only complaints that the "rinos" are not conservative enough? I'm asking if there has ever been a conservative who disagreed with a republican position, not a complaint that they are not republican enough. Like I said I can easily find fault with lots of democrat positions. Can conservatives only find fault with those who are not conservative enough? Thank you in advance for any replys.
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12:19 PM
Boostdreamer Member
Posts: 7175 From: Kingsport, Tennessee USA Registered: Jun 2007
That someone like dratts has to ask, makes me wonder if they actually *read* our posts?
I have to admit that "someone like dratts" often passes over the posts because they are so long and one-sided, but I'm always looking for both sides. I've changed my political stance before and I'm open to changing it again given enough reason.
[This message has been edited by dratts (edited 06-23-2012).]
If nothing else fierobear should be really offended right now lol. He's got a multiple page thread, mostly filled by himself, that digs into Republicans wrong doing. It's a great read.
Brad
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12:23 PM
dratts Member
Posts: 8373 From: Coeur d' alene Idaho USA Registered: Apr 2001
If nothing else fierobear should be really offended right now lol. He's got a multiple page thread, mostly filled by himself, that digs into Republicans wrong doing. It's a great read.
Brad
I missed that one. Were his posts about republicans doing wrong things or about them not being far enough on the right wing side?
[This message has been edited by dratts (edited 06-23-2012).]
Still not looking for an argument. Aren't rino posts only complaints that the "rinos" are not conservative enough?
RINO means they aren't conservative enough. Republican is not necessarily equal to conservative. That's why there's a Tea Party, BTW.
quote
I'm asking if there has ever been a conservative who disagreed with a republican position, not a complaint that they are not republican enough. Like I said I can easily find fault with lots of democrat positions. Can conservatives only find fault with those who are not conservative enough? Thank you in advance for any replys.
Yes, I can think of some, and have mentioned them before.
1. Bush. Wasn't conservative enough. Biggest example, he cut taxes but didn't push spending cuts.
2. Gay marriage. I believe that true conservatism says that what other people do is none of my goddamn business. And, presumably, I'd be given the same courtesy. I don't like the idea of men and women making out and s***, but it isn't my place to stop them. Republican/Conservative opposition to gay marriage is, I believe, wrong in that it violates the principles of freedom and self-determination.
3. Abortion. This is a tough one. I personally think that a human is killed in the process. I can understand that people want to advocate for the helpless unborn. But I do love women, and don't want them to go through an unwanted pregnancy or seek an illegal abortion that would hurt them. Very difficult subject, but I'd err on the side of personal freedom.
That's off the top of my head, dratts. Is that what you were looking for?
add: I just bumped the "Republican Watch" thread.
[This message has been edited by fierobear (edited 06-23-2012).]
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12:45 PM
dratts Member
Posts: 8373 From: Coeur d' alene Idaho USA Registered: Apr 2001
I feel better already Fierobear. I didn't think that we could agree on ANYTHING. I know that we will never agree on climate change "global warming". I haven't made up my mind on that one yet. I'm counting on science to give us the final answer. Anyway thank you, I'm always looking for ways for us to find agreement rather than just shout at each other.
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01:04 PM
E.Furgal Member
Posts: 11708 From: LAND OF CONFUSION Registered: Mar 2012
bear made some good points. There are plenty of faults with all people, not just politicians and that includes Republicans. Just about any time you see a Republican accused of wrongdoing, they get thrown under the bus by the GOP. When a Democrat is accused, they circle the wagons and deny everything.
Some personal GOP gripes, GW Bush didn't cut spending enough to go along with the tax cuts. I think the PATRIOT Act, while it may be well intentioned, makes it too easy to violate people's rights. I was against the TARP bailouts. Reagan's amnesty program was a mistake.
Spending is a disease in Washington and Republicans bear part of the blame as well. I'm sick of D.C. double-speak like a politician saying going from a planned increase in spending of 10% to an actual increase of 5% is a 5% "cut in spending." No, it's not a cut. It's a smaller increase than originally planned, but it's still an increase.
How many posts on here have there been by Republicans or Conservatives calling out the GOP? There's a thread dedicated to doing just that. How many posts by Democrats or Liberals have called out the Democrat Party?
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01:06 PM
fierobear Member
Posts: 27116 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
I feel better already Fierobear. I didn't think that we could agree on ANYTHING. I know that we will never agree on climate change "global warming". I haven't made up my mind on that one yet.
You don't have to, the climate will make up your mind for you.
(the REAL climate, that is, not the faked data and the programmed computer models)
Yes, the climate will tell us eventually. If your view is right, then we'll be ok. If however we reach "the tipping point" and you are wrong then it will be a catastrophe. It won't happen in my lifetime, but I am not unconcerned with what happens to the world after I'm gone. I have four kids, eight grandchildren, and two great grandchildren that I care about. I hope that you are right. That would be the easy way out.
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01:15 PM
TommyRocker Member
Posts: 2808 From: Woodstock, IL Registered: Dec 2009
Led us into a Civil War. Anything else he did is moot as he was at the helm, and therefore the cause of many unneeded deaths.
Brad
um, it wasn't one man that was try'n to take states rights away it was the whole fed. government.. the civil war wasn't so much about slaves as it was about states rights.. sadly one overshadows the real reasons for that war.. the slavery issue was only one small part..
Originally posted by E.Furgal: um, it wasn't one man that was try'n to take states rights away it was the whole fed. government.. the civil war wasn't so much about slaves as it was about states rights.. sadly one overshadows the real reasons for that war.. the slavery issue was only one small part..
That doesn't matter in this conversation, Lincoln was in charge, that's all I was saying. I wasn't getting into a debate about the causes of the Civil War, there is already a thread on that.
Brad
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01:58 PM
spark1 Member
Posts: 11159 From: Benton County, OR Registered: Dec 2002
Here's the thing, you need to nail down exactly what a conservative is, because Republican does not equal Conservative. Yes they are called the Conservative party, but in that they suppossedly stand for strict adherence to the Constitution, Personal Freedom, Fiscal Responsibility and Smaller Government. However if that is the litmus test for what a Republican is, then a look through their positions on some issues will show a contradiction, as illustrated by Fierobear on the topic of Gay Marriage. A deeper look at the bills they have sponsored, voted for or a Republican President has signed into law will find even more contradictions to the party stance. Bush Jr. signed a welfare increase did he not? Bush Jr. signed a increase to the amount of the EIC credit, which many Republicans on this forum are strongly against even existing. So, if one looks it's easy to find things within either party that aren't "what they say they stand for". It's why I can no longer call myself a Republican. I am now registered Independandt, because as I have often said "I think the right answers are somewhere inbetween what each party "says" they stand for.". Also what either party "says" they stand for and what they "do" are often different things.
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02:32 PM
yellowstone Member
Posts: 9299 From: Düsseldorf/Germany Registered: Jun 2003
Originally posted by dratts: I have four kids, eight grandchildren, and two great grandchildren that I care about. I hope that you are right. That would be the easy way out.
I don't think he's right but I don't have kids so screw the rest. Maybe they'll get raptured first
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02:53 PM
dratts Member
Posts: 8373 From: Coeur d' alene Idaho USA Registered: Apr 2001
I'm one of the few registered Republicans and former 30 year resident of Maricopa County, Arizona who never voted for Joe Arpaio or John McCain.
I was a fan of McCain once. One of us changed. Joe is right on some of his stances in my opinion, maybe a bit extreme on some. I don't think that criminals should be so over coddled as they now seem to be and I think the illegal part of illegal immigrant is not enforced as much as it should be. I'm for legal immigration. I'm probably what would be called a compassionate conservative. Maybe a fiscally conservative progressive.
[This message has been edited by dratts (edited 06-23-2012).]
Yeah, although I care about the rest of the world, I think that it would be a disaster if they just opened the border and let everyone in, but there is still room for legal immigrants.
If "they" opened the door and "let" everyone in, then it is, by the 1st 9 words in this sentence, assumed that either congress or exec order has given their blessing to this open door policy--thus meaning they would ALL be legal immigrants.
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04:38 PM
fierobear Member
Posts: 27116 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
Originally posted by dratts: I'm probably what would be called a compassionate conservative. Maybe a fiscally conservative progressive.
True conservatism IS compassion. Just because you aren't for handouts to able bodied people, that doesn't make you without compassionate. What is compassionate about making people dependent?
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04:40 PM
Wichita Member
Posts: 20709 From: Wichita, Kansas Registered: Jun 2002
I'm not a conservative, but find fault with Republicans for aligning themselves with the Christian Evangelical Right, which I find has no merit to be in the Republican Party.
But since it is what it is, any proud and vocal Christian Conservative who happens to be a Republican is a big fault, i.e. Rick Santorum.
[This message has been edited by Wichita (edited 06-23-2012).]
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04:45 PM
Old Lar Member
Posts: 13798 From: Palm Bay, Florida Registered: Nov 1999
Many D just push the D lever and go on with their lives. The first POTUS I voted for was Nixon (68) when he told us that he'd get us out of Vietnam. Guess where I went in 1969? When he didn't do as promised I voted for the D (McGovern) little good that did. I voted for Bush 1, but the no new taxes line, then passed taxes, I voted for Perot, (little good that did) as sleeze ball Clinton was elected.
Far too many just vote party line and of late, The D party seem to have a lot of loonys in office. Obama, Ried, Pelosi, Biden, Holder and the senate majority.
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04:57 PM
dratts Member
Posts: 8373 From: Coeur d' alene Idaho USA Registered: Apr 2001
True conservatism IS compassion. Just because you aren't for handouts to able bodied people, that doesn't make you without compassionate. What is compassionate about making people dependent?
100%
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05:23 PM
E.Furgal Member
Posts: 11708 From: LAND OF CONFUSION Registered: Mar 2012
True conservatism IS compassion. Just because you aren't for handouts to able bodied people, that doesn't make you without compassionate. What is compassionate about making people dependent?
That doesn't matter in this conversation, Lincoln was in charge, that's all I was saying. I wasn't getting into a debate about the causes of the Civil War, there is already a thread on that.
Brad
He was more than just "the guy that happened to be in charge at the time", he also drove policy quite a bit, much of which directly lead us down the path to war.
I think most everyone is for legal immigration. I'd hope they are as that's how the majority of us got here.
Brad
Legal and controlled. The days of the near-free for all in the past should be over. We are no longer desperate for warm bodies to grow the population but instead want useful warm bodies to grow the standard of living.
He was more than just "the guy that happened to be in charge at the time", he also drove policy quite a bit, much of which directly lead us down the path to war.
Right, but I wasn't getting into the details of it, just going on the "he was in charge" part.
