I can't ask it any simpler.

Jim

strut has both the shock and spring as an assembly. A shock is independent of the spring.

quote Originally posted by jimbolaya: I can't ask it any simpler. Jim

Seriously?

Shocks:



Struts:



Like Gridlock said, shock separate from the spring.

quote Originally posted by Gridlock: strut has both the shock and spring as an assembly. A shock is independent of the spring.

Don't forget upper control arm and ball joint

A strut is thus, a combination of a number of suspension components viz. spring, damper, bump stopper, upper control arm and probably one ball joint.

Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/W...geably#ixzz1tMUeTHId

Well, none really, insofar as they are both parts of the suspension. A strut is more of an integral PART of the suspension, as opposed to a shock absorber being an addition to it. See, the strut actually does two things: it is designed to support the suspension parts, as well as including a shock absorber within. A shock absorber simply bolts BETWEEN the chassis and the moving part of the suspension, and slows and smooths the travel of that suspension. It is not AN INTEGRAL PART OF THE SUPPORT SIDE OF THE SUSPENSION, LIKE A STRUT IS.

[This message has been edited by fierofetish (edited 04-28-2012).]

A strut is when I try to act cool. A shock is what people get when they see me strut.

quote Originally posted by williegoat: A strut is when I try to act cool. A shock is what people get when they see me strut.

quote Originally posted by NEPTUNE: Seriously?

Yes, seriously. Smart ass. They are very similar, and what confused me is that there are shocks that have coils over them, and I really didn't understand the difference, so if you have nothing constructive to contribute, you can kiss my ass and be gone.

Jim

A shock with a spring over it is a load carrier or spring assisted shock.
They add a little bit more "support" to a vehicle.

Shock mounts may not be strong enough on some vehicles to handle the tension the springs will maintain on them.

There are kits to put springs over a regular shock. There a ' booster ' to help support a heavier load than original spring was designed for, like mentioned above. I had an old Lincoln with sagging leaf springs. Rather than spend $800 for new leaves, I just put booster springs on over the stock shocks. They also make shocks that have an air chamber in them so you can raise the height of the vehicle for heavier loads (like trailers) or to gain clearance. Drag racers use them to dial in the stance of the vehicle to help plant the rear tires better and gain rear wheel opening clearance for wider race tires.

quote Originally posted by jimbolaya: What's the difference between a shock, and a strut? I can't ask it any simpler.

Short answer: A strut is a structural part of the suspension design, while a shock is not. Both provide suspension damping, but only struts carry structural loads. A shock will usually be freely mounted at both ends, while a strut is often mounted with one end rigidly attached to something. Another way of saying it is that struts are designed to take both axial loads (parallel to the shaft axis) and side loads, while shocks are only designed for axial loads.

quote Originally posted by Gridlock: strut has both the shock and spring as an assembly. A shock is independent of the spring.

A strut does not necessarily include a coaxial spring, although most modern FWD designs do so to save space. For example, the rear struts in the early '90s GM W-body cars (e.g. my 1991 Buick Regal) are structural, providing camber location and carrying braking loads just like in the Fiero rear suspension, but the design uses a transverse composite (fiberglass) leaf spring rather than coil springs. In FWD front suspansions, struts usually provide camber and caster positioning as well as carrying braking loads and functioning as the steering pivot axis.

The front suspension of the early Porsche 911s used a MacPherson Strut design, but Porsche used torsion bars (like the VW Beetle) in place of coil springs.

[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 04-28-2012).]

quote Originally posted by jimbolaya: Yes, seriously. Smart ass. They are very similar, and what confused me is that there are shocks that have coils over them, and I really didn't understand the difference, so if you have nothing constructive to contribute, you can kiss my ass and be gone. Jim

Don't you wish you could shoot me with one of your your guns?
I didn't take your question very seriously because I thought that you already knew the answer, ot at least you'd already Googled it.
Apparently I overestimated your intelligence.
I apologize for that.

[This message has been edited by NEPTUNE (edited 04-28-2012).]

Struts are usually in the back while chocks are in the front (most of the time...)

Cliff, is there a way these two can't respond in each others threads or quote each other?

quote Originally posted by Marvin McInnis: The front suspension of the early Porsche 911s used a MacPherson Strut design, but Porsche used torsion bars (like the VW Beetle) in place of coil springs.

It was fun to watch the inside front wheel come to a stop, as it left the ground on a hard turn, when those old Porches were still used in SCCA.

quote Originally posted by NEPTUNE: Don't you wish you could shoot me with one of your your guns? I didn't take your question very seriously because I thought that you already knew the answer, ot at least you'd already Googled it. Apparently I overestimated your intelligence. I apologize for that.

I thought I knew the difference also. I thought it was basically what Gridlock said, but I came across evidence that showed otherwise. So instead of worshiping at the almighty Google, I came to a car forum, and asked a car question. Go figure. Apparently I overestimated your ability at being a complete and total douchebag! I apologize for that, and I won't let it happen again.

Jim

I think it was a great question to ask.

Although I general knew, just reading some of the postings, even I learn a little more about the difference.

quote Originally posted by Gokart Mozart: Cliff, is there a way these two can't respond in each others threads or quote each other?

What two are you talking about? If it's neptune and I, I don't see the point. I avoid neptune, and the like quite regularly, and do not engage him in other threads on purpose. I exercise self control. However, he came into a thread I started, (non political mind you) and instead of being helpful, he wanted to be a jerk. I'm standing my ground.

Jim

[This message has been edited by jimbolaya (edited 04-28-2012).]

quote Originally posted by Wichita: I think it was a great question to ask. Although I general knew, just reading some of the postings, even I learn a little more about the difference.

Thanks, same here. I was just looking to expand my knowledge, and you know what? I succeeded.

Jim

dont forget to add "spring seat" into this now...

Heck of an echo in here

quote Originally posted by NEPTUNE: Apparently I overestimated your intelligence.

Knowledge and intellect are not the same thing. Very intelligent people can be just as ignorant as anyone else, while people possessing below average intellect can often hold a vast amount of knowledge within their minds.


I know a mentally retarded girl (due to an unfortunate brain tumor as a child) who is about 30 but has the intellect of a small child. She is also an encyclopedia of seemingly useless knowledge, including a plethora of insults (which seem to be your area of expertise, and I must admit, not the most useless of information to possess..).

quote Originally posted by jimbolaya: What two are you talking about? If it's neptune and I, I don't see the point. I avoid neptune, and the like quite regularly, and do not engage him in other threads on purpose. I exercise self control. However, he came into a thread I started, (non political mind you) and instead of being helpful, he wanted to be a jerk. I'm standing my ground. Jim

I didn't mean to insult you in my reply.
You chose to respond with one.
Please accept another apology for my omission.

[This message has been edited by NEPTUNE (edited 04-28-2012).]

quote Originally posted by hookdonspeed: dont forget to add "spring seat" into this now...

That is similar to what the struts look like on the rear. Except the spring, and mount plate are not in that picture.

Jim

quote Originally posted by pontiackid86: Struts are usually in the back while chocks are in the front (most of the time...)

Fail.

The key difference, as was mentioned is a strut is a structural part of the suspension and a shock only serves as a damping device between 2 points.
The most common usage today in FWD cars is to have struts up front and shocks in the back. That simplifies the front suspension design to make it easier to fit the FWD drivetrain in. The Fiero uses struts in back because it's rear suspension and drivetrain are based on the X-car FWD platform.

A shock can be removed and leaving the suspension in tact and functioning (albiet without any shock damping).

[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 04-28-2012).]

quote Originally posted by jimbolaya: Yes, seriously. Smart ass. They are very similar, and what confused me is that there are shocks that have coils over them, and I really didn't understand the difference, so if you have nothing constructive to contribute, you can kiss my ass and be gone. Jim

A coil over is a strut.

quote Originally posted by Kekipi: A coil over is a strut.

Fail.

Shocks can be coil-overs as well.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: Fail. Shocks can be coil-overs as well.

Correct me if i'm wrong but isn't that a coil assisting shock

Technically, it is more of a strut than a shock. It is load-bearing, as opposed to simply a damper, controlling only excessive and rapid movement between chassis and suspension, caused by the rough and undulating surface that the vehicle is travelling over.

quote Originally posted by Kekipi: Correct me if i'm wrong but isn't that a coil assisting shock

No, it's a coil-over shock. It's not a supplemental spring - it's the only spring.
The reason it's a shock and not a strut is it isn't a structural member of the suspension.

Struts are hard mounted to become part of the suspension.

On a shock absorber - like the front of the Fiero, you can remove it and the suspension is still in tact.
If you remove the strut in the above picture, what is holding the suspension together?

[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 04-28-2012).]

Bubble gum?

quote Originally posted by Formula88: Fail. The key difference, as was mentioned is a strut is a structural part of the suspension and a shock only serves as a damping device between 2 points. The most common usage today in FWD cars is to have struts up front and shocks in the back. That simplifies the front suspension design to make it easier to fit the FWD drivetrain in. The Fiero uses struts in back because it's rear suspension and drivetrain are based on the X-car FWD platform. A shock can be removed and leaving the suspension in tact and functioning (albiet without any shock damping).

Lol thats the stupid persons explanation of it.. I know the main diffrences...

quote Originally posted by fierofetish: Technically, it is more of a strut than a shock. It is load-bearing, as opposed to simply a damper, controlling only excessive and rapid movement between chassis and suspension, caused by the rough and undulating surface that the vehicle is travelling over.

Must be awfull hard on the Shock Mounts. I had Coil Assisted Shocks on my 93 Astro van I use to haul more than a ton in. That and air bags but still managed to rip the mount on the axle housing leaving a dime size hole. So I think you can use a strut in place of a shock but can't use a Shock in place of a Strut.

quote Originally posted by pontiackid86: Lol thats the stupid persons explanation of it.. I know the main diffrences...

OK, smart guy ... what's the intelligent person's explanation, and why didn't you provide that in the first place?

quote Originally posted by pontiackid86: Struts are usually in the back while chocks are in the front (most of the time...)

The manufacturers of most of the FWD vehicles in the world would be surprised by that factoid. Similarly, Monroe, Gabriel, and others would be surprised to learn that they're wrong when they list struts for the front of my Dodge Caravan and shocks for the rear.

Grow up!

[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 04-28-2012).]

quote Originally posted by Formula88: Fail. Shocks can be coil-overs as well.

Oh and fail me or not I'm still ASE certified in Suspehnsion and steering. Just this month I passed with a 13 out of 20. I wonder how many of you have that.

quote Originally posted by Kekipi: So I think you can use a strut in place of a shock but can't use a Shock in place of a Strut.

No, not even with bubble gum. Suspensions using struts are a completely different design, with very different mounting points from suspensions using shocks. Go look at the picture Formula 88 posted. Where would the shock mount?