OK, so I just finished rebuilding a Fiero v6 engine thatI needed to get rid of. I found a guy in Oakland and sold it. But he is a retiree and loves his car so he asked what I would charge to install it. Spare time is not something I have lots of but I gave him a number and he "OK".

So The easiest way was to go to his place and do it there. I went yesterday morning and by late last night we had it running like new again. He lives in Oakland. The guy two house down was shot last week because he refused to give his wallet to 3 punks.

Now for people who find themselves in a new environment you tend to notice new sounds. So I coul dnot help but notice that from the minute I got there til the moment I left all I heard was sirens; Police, Ambulance, Fire, you name it. From every corner of the community were sirens.

We hear about the violence in Oakland these days but I am not kidding, I was overwhelmed by the degree of the problem.

That sounds like certain parts of Chicago, New York and probably certain areas in most of America's urban centers. In both cities, there seems to be a number of psychological and equally geographical boundary lines beyond which one immediately assumes (and rightly so in most cases) that a siren is an ambulance responding to a health-related issue, not a police car responding to a crime of violence. In Chicago, there are communities within the inner city that one rarely hears a siren and others where it's a 24-hour event.

While we're on the subject, one of the things I'm struck with most when I travel overseas is the lack of gun-related violence reports in the daily news and how that relates to law enforcement activities. You don't really realize how prevalent such reports are in our society and how immune we've become to the shock related to them until you go somewhere else. It's really striking. Imagine the total reverse of your Oakland impression and you've described most of Europe, Asia and the majority of the African continent.

Google Hyphy Movement. Welcome to da bay.

As for the lack of "gun related violence" overseas, the reason you dont hear about it is that the governments of those countries control the news. The people there what the government wants them to hear. All countries have "gun related violence" . In most of Africa, its the governments killing there own or the factions within tring to kill the opposition so that they can take control. Dont kid yourself, its there and its real.

quote Originally posted by Doni Hagan: While we're on the subject, one of the things I'm struck with most when I travel overseas is the lack of gun-related violence reports in the daily news and how that relates to law enforcement activities. You don't really realize how prevalent such reports are in our society and how immune we've become to the shock related to them until you go somewhere else. It's really striking. Imagine the total reverse of your Oakland impression and you've described most of Europe, Asia and the majority of the African continent.

And those countries have histories of oppressive regimes that get away with it because of the lack of private gun ownership.

Unfortunately, there is no easy way in this world.

quote Originally posted by fierobear: And those countries have histories of oppressive regimes that get away with it because of the lack of private gun ownership.

Yup....Damn those French, English, Dutch and Norwegian oppressive regimes among others. Can't trust a single one of 'em.

I knew something was missing while I was spending all that time overseas......now I know what it was....my ability to read a newspaper. Never believe what the locals say.....HEY!! Maybe that's what they think when they come here!

[This message has been edited by Doni Hagan (edited 04-22-2012).]

I suppose that depends where (and when) one goes overseas--iow--which country. Just ask Norway's Anders Breivik or France's Mohamed Merah--well wait, Merah is dead--shot by special forces..

quote Originally posted by Doni Hagan: While we're on the subject, one of the things I'm struck with most when I travel overseas is the lack of gun-related violence reports in the daily news and how that relates to law enforcement activities.

How that relates to law enforcement activities ?
Any lack of gun related violence reports, I can be sure are made up with other violence reports. Guns don't always kill and you can kill without a gun. You can defend your life with a gun.

What bothered us most about living in Phoenix was the constant helicopter traffic and the spot lights at night. Yeah, sirens were sounding most of the time and occasional gun shots but the helicopters, even the police notars were very annoying.

quote Originally posted by Toddster:OK, so I just finished rebuilding a Fiero v6 engine thatI needed to get rid of. I found a guy in Oakland and sold it. But he is a retiree and loves his car so he asked what I would charge to install it. Spare time is not something I have lots of but I gave him a number and he "OK". So The easiest way was to go to his place and do it there. I went yesterday morning and by late last night we had it running like new again. We hear about the violence in Oakland these days but I am not kidding, I was overwhelmed by the degree of the problem.

You the king baby, swapped a motor at someone else s location and finished in a day.

I hung our at a biker bar in oakland in the late 60s for a short time they were expecting War with the blacks, I can not imagine what its like nowspreading south said a friend who showed up a year ago,I reported here on him.a lot of angry hate
Norway & Sweden have repressive left wing goverments,KILLING BUSINESS, should come to a boil in the next 10 years .
I have spent a lot of time in europe,worked with the french police when i was shore patrol,in the 60,s, there is a lot of crime any where ,,..DO NOT SCREW WITH THE FRENCH POLICE
a lot of crime in eastern europe mostly theft & vandalism ,the more godless the areas the more crime,, the left wing democrats & marxist damage is permanent..comming to you soon


will the apocalyse happen first in Los Angeles or New York city?? im betting on NYC it was a vast human scum sewer when i was there 40 years ago,,Chicago & Detroit are out of the running due to so much scum fleeing south to infest & infect other area,s with crime

quote Originally posted by Doni Hagan: Yup....Damn those French, English, Dutch and Norwegian oppressive regimes among others. Can't trust a single one of 'em.

Mostly socialist, but I guess that doesn't bother some people. And most countries in Europe are collapsing under the weight of all that socialist crap. France is about to go communist. Nothing to stop the government from taking all of your stuff if you aren't armed.

[This message has been edited by fierobear (edited 04-23-2012).]

Worse place I ever lived for siren activity was Memphis in the mid 80s.
Best place I ever lived for Sea Sirens activity was Olongapo, P.I.

quote Originally posted by Doni Hagan: Yup....Damn those French, English, Dutch and Norwegian oppressive regimes among others. Can't trust a single one of 'em.

You want to be like France? Really? Personally I don't want my car burned in the streets and windows smashed in by rioters, nor do I want to work my entire life to pay 60% of my income to the government and live in a 700 sf hubble. But hey, to each his own. Maybe France has improved since I was there last.

Bookmarked. Thank you.

quote Originally posted by Toddster: You want to be like France? Really? Personally I don't want my car burned in the streets and windows smashed in by rioters, nor do I want to work my entire life to pay 60% of my income to the government and live in a 700 sf hubble. But hey, to each his own. Maybe France has improved since I was there last.

No place is Nirvana, Todd...not even here. Riots have never occurred in SoCal? Also, you could be living in 700 sf in LA, NY or any number of locations in the US. Respectfully, not everyone in America lives like Pacific Palisades, La Jolla or perhaps even Morgan Hill. You don't need a French passport for poverty, unfortunately.

This started out as a conversation about non-stop police sirens in Oakland and my response was directly related to that. It's April 23rd and over 125 people have either died or been injured by shootings in Chicago alone thus far this year. The lead story in almost every local news broadcast is related to yet another one. I don't notice that sort of emphasis on gun-related violence in most other places I visit....and I visit quite a few on a regular basis. I'm not quite certain to what degree the taxation rates in France impact that particular issue but perhaps you can draw a viable parallel between the two for me. I hope this isn't about to become a discussion about 2nd Amendment rights as that's a tunnel-vision debate I'd personally rather not enter into.

Anyway, you mentioned Oakland....I brought up Chicago and how the two compare with the majority of global urban areas I visit.

That's what the OP was about, wasn't it?

quote Originally posted by Doni Hagan: No place is Nirvana, Todd...not even here. Riots have never occurred in SoCal? Also, you could be living in 700 sf in LA, NY or any number of locations in the US. Respectfully, not everyone in America lives like Pacific Palisades, La Jolla or perhaps even Morgan Hill. You don't need a French passport for poverty, unfortunately. This started out as a conversation about non-stop police sirens in Oakland and my response was directly related to that. It's April 23rd and over 125 people have either died or been injured by shootings in Chicago alone thus far this year. The lead story in almost every local news broadcast is related to yet another one. I don't notice that sort of emphasis on gun-related violence in most other places I visit....and I visit quite a few on a regular basis. I'm not quite certain to what degree the taxation rates in France impact that particular issue but perhaps you can draw a viable parallel between the two for me. I hope this isn't about to become a discussion about 2nd Amendment rights as that's a tunnel-vision debate I'd personally rather not enter into. Anyway, you mentioned Oakland....I brought up Chicago and how the two compare with the majority of global urban areas I visit. That's what the OP was about, wasn't it?

That sounds very disingenuous. Your comment was a political one about gun control. Pure and simple. I have lived in several other countries and gun violence is not about guns. It is about people. If you give a gun to a responsible person people don't die very often. You give a gun to a gang banger and you'll need a calculator to keep up with the body count. Taking guns away from everyone is a bad idea and a historic recipe for disaster. The vast majority of societies with gun control laws ended badly, USSR, Nazi Germany, Iraq, Vietnam, etc. The list goes on. The rule of nature can not be removed with an edict. Those with guns will always get their way over those without them. The founding fathers knew this and that is why the 2nd amendment is the Second, not the 3rd or 8th or 17th. It is THAT important to our freedoms to be armed as a society. And if you think "It Can't Happen Here" then I suggest your a book by Sinclair Lewis of the same name.

Disingenuousness is apparently contagious.

Saying gun-related deaths are not about guns is akin to saying cancer-related deaths are not about malignancy. Cause and effect....they are one in the same.

Let's be clear. I am a gun owner who feels like he's in a classic Catch-22 scenario. I own them because people who shouldn't own them do as well. But, until our society (or any other for that matter) is successful in removing the human element from the debate, it is an exercise in futility to endeavor to discuss the issue of gun availability, legally acquired or otherwise.

True, guns don't kill people.

But people without guns don't shoot people either.