quote Originally posted by frontal lobe: Much of the issue with light weight isn't with sticking to the road, handling, and braking, as engineers are good at designing for that. But with your 1500 lb vehicle getting hit by a 5,000 lb SUV, you likely aren't going to do as well as if hit in a 3800 lb Camaro or a 3,400 lb Honda Accord. I HATE that crash protection is a part of the consideration, but with the number of HIGH WEIGHT vehicles on the road, and the attentiveness of drivers decreasing, it probably merits some consideration as well.

I have come to expect intelligent comments from you, but this might be one of the smartest even though it is a simple observation.

quote Originally posted by frontal lobe: Much of the issue with light weight isn't with sticking to the road, handling, and braking, as engineers are good at designing for that. But with your 1500 lb vehicle getting hit by a 5,000 lb SUV, you likely aren't going to do as well as if hit in a 3800 lb Camaro or a 3,400 lb Honda Accord. I HATE that crash protection is a part of the consideration, but with the number of HIGH WEIGHT vehicles on the road, and the attentiveness of drivers decreasing, it probably merits some consideration as well.

Oh, I don't know...I'd think as long as you don't get sandwitched between that SUV and something else, you'd just get knocked around like a pinball...not that that would do you any good, but I'd think it'd be better than the car crumpling and crushing you in the process.

quote Originally posted by Stubby79: Oh, I don't know...I'd think as long as you don't get sandwitched between that SUV and something else, you'd just get knocked around like a pinball...not that that would do you any good, but I'd think it'd be better than the car crumpling and crushing you in the process.

Well, I know you would get "bounced" by the bigger car. The distance would probably be farther, then, since you are lighter. Which increased distance would increase chance of being bounced OFF the roadway, at which point there are more objects to hit into. Trees, poles, etc.


The other issue is that if the car is light (as was highlighted with the problem with the Geo Tracker), then it needs to have a pretty low center of gravity. Which means it is pretty easy to get run OVER by a big honking SUV.


I'm not saying I wouldn't buy such a car. Just saying it does have a somewhat higher level of risk. Not saying I wouldn't ride a motorcycle either. My wife says that for me.

quote Originally posted by frontal lobe: The other issue is that if the car is light (as was highlighted with the problem with the Geo Tracker), then it needs to have a pretty low center of gravity. Which means it is pretty easy to get run OVER by a big honking SUV.

Unless the center of gravity for your vehicle is higher than the contact point from the truck or SUV, you have a narrow track and good tires. At this point I would fear being rolled.

The new Mini,s with the BMW engines are an example of a lite weight car with excellent handling,the originals were a POS but the lite weight racing class in England brought these cars to prominence.
One of the most practical cars ever made was the original 1500 pound Honda civic,but Americans prefer the 12 mpg SUV crapster of thier 4000 pound polution dream.I do!!
Messersmidt use to sell a 3 wheel car it looked like a airplane canopy on wheels...the passenger sat in the back.
we are spoiled, G.M engineers destroyed the
Camaro ,,,but sales are 1000 times more important than performance,America,s youth buys image,, the Camaro was a terrible car unreliable,,I use to sell them, what a piece of G.M.sheet ,a POS, they sold all they could build,no group is more represenative of image than this Fiero forum ..
Any car is safer than a motorcycle ,got the scars to prove it,,buy the lite 4 wheeler of your dreams .
In my eyes the Smart car is a clown Fiasco ,but no one cares what I think,especially a green ..

quote Originally posted by frontal lobe: I'm not saying I wouldn't buy such a car. Just saying it does have a somewhat higher level of risk. Not saying I wouldn't ride a motorcycle either. My wife says that for me.

That's probably what I'm trying to make up for...not having a motorcycle any more. And since half of my short drive to work is on the highway, it's got to be at least perky enough to keep up with traffic. I'd preffer a bit more than just keeping up, though...

I like the idea that less is more. Rather than having a 300hp, 3000lb vehicle, I'm more interested in a 100hp, 1000lb vehicle. 10lb/hp without the usual price tag is what I'd like. I prefer taking off like a bat out of hell over having a 200mph top speed. The lighter it is, the easier that is to do...

quote Originally posted by uhlanstan: In my eyes the Smart car is a clown Fiasco ,but no one cares what I think,especially a green ..

What the heck are you talking about, Stan? Some people might not care for what you say, but I think we all enjoy hearing your opinion. I do, any way...it's always refreshing. Not necessarily coherent, but who gives a damn?

quote Originally posted by Stubby79: That's probably what I'm trying to make up for...not having a motorcycle any more. And since half of my short drive to work is on the highway, it's got to be at least perky enough to keep up with traffic. I'd preffer a bit more than just keeping up, though... I like the idea that less is more. Rather than having a 300hp, 3000lb vehicle, I'm more interested in a 100hp, 1000lb vehicle. 10lb/hp without the usual price tag is what I'd like. I prefer taking off like a bat out of hell over having a 200mph top speed. The lighter it is, the easier that is to do...

That's a good way of looking at it. A Metro/Firefly hatch with a turbo Ecotec would be awesome! It couldn't do 200, but 0-60 would be a blast.
FWIW, I think you might get bored with 10lbs/hp quick. My motorcycle is 395lb (sub 600 with me and fuel) and puts out ~110hp. Only 1 hp for each 6 lbs is insufficient.

[This message has been edited by Xyster (edited 01-27-2012).]

quote Originally posted by frontal lobe: I'm not saying I wouldn't buy such a car. Just saying it does have a somewhat higher level of risk. Not saying I wouldn't ride a motorcycle either. My wife says that for me.

Yeah, my wife said the same thing about Fieros, then again about motorcycles. Not that I don't listen, I do but, a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do. I currently own six Fieros and one out of this world Honda Valkyrie. Somethings are just not controllable.

------------------
Ron
The key thing is to wake up breathing! All the rest can be fixed. (Except Stupid - You can't fix that)
Always remember these words of wisdom.

"The Lord must truly love fools, for he made them in abundance."

Being light is fine the lighter you get the lower (closer to the ground) the weight needs to be. Sure back in the day if a car was all carbon fiber and weighed so little that the horsepower could not be applied to the road without burning out all the time, but today they have launch control and computers for that stuff.

As mentioned the lighter the car the more dangerous in a crash against something bigger though.

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 01-27-2012).]

"...I prefer taking off like a bat out of hell over having a 200mph top speed. The lighter it is, the easier that is to do..."


AND it takes a LOT less gasoline. Which is great, too.

I have a Mazdaspeed 3. 3,150 pounds. 263 hp 280 torque. I average 24mpg city. I wish they would have geared it a little different. I would have traded a little acceleration for better gas mileage.

quote Originally posted by blackrams: Somethings are just not controllable.

Is that you, the Honda, or both?

quote Originally posted by frontal lobe: AND it takes a LOT less gasoline. Which is great, too. I have a Mazdaspeed 3. 3,150 pounds. 263 hp 280 torque. I average 24mpg city. I wish they would have geared it a little different. I would have traded a little acceleration for better gas mileage.

Thats near as damn it 1000lbs more than my Miata. A bit over double the horsepower, mind you, but still...

I'm plugging away at some math, trying to see what a Fiero could get down to in weight and still be liveable. And what it oculd be unlivable and probably not recognizable as a Fiero anymore.

quote Originally posted by Stubby79: Thats near as damn it 1000lbs more than my Miata. A bit over double the horsepower, mind you, but still...

I know.

My wife has a Miata. Even with the weight, the Mazdaspeed 3 is LOTS faster.


I had a 1986 Mazda 626 back in the day. 2750 lbs. for a 4 door sedan. The current Mazda6 is 3250lbs (signficantly larger) and the previous Mazda6 model is 3150ish.

400 to 500 pounds more is a lot.

quote Originally posted by joshh44:

I saw that. Too bad the forces involved in stopping in less than a second from 70mph would kill a human, even if the passenger compartment isn't completely comprimized. My first thoughts were the "Safety foam" from Demolition Man, if anyone remembers that besides me...someone needs to invent that stuff.

quote Originally posted by frontal lobe: My wife has a Miata. Even with the weight, the Mazdaspeed 3 is LOTS faster.

I just hope a good part of that weight is in brakes, cuz it's going to need to stop a lot faster! That'd be another benefit of a considerably lighter vehicle...your brakes would stop you a lot faster without having each rotor weigh 30lbs.

[This message has been edited by Stubby79 (edited 01-27-2012).]

quote Originally posted by Stubby79: I just hope a good part of that weight is in brakes, cuz it's going to need to stop a lot faster! That'd be another benefit of a considerably lighter vehicle...your brakes would stop you a lot faster without having each rotor weigh 30lbs.

Yes. In my mind, the Mazdaspeed 3 has excellent brakes.


But another excellent point by you. Stopping 2100 pounds vs. 3000 pounds can be accomplished with much lighter, smaller brakes. And a lot less heat and energy lost to braking force.


Fieros are low to the ground, and only weigh about 2700 or so pounds, and I never felt unsafe driving one.

I guess I don't feel unsafe driving the Miata, either, really. Sometimes when driving next to a semi, though, I get a feeling of being very small.

quote Originally posted by frontal lobe: Yes. In my mind, the Mazdaspeed 3 has excellent brakes. But another excellent point by you. Stopping 2100 pounds vs. 3000 pounds can be accomplished with much lighter, smaller brakes. And a lot less heat and energy lost to braking force. Fieros are low to the ground, and only weigh about 2700 or so pounds, and I never felt unsafe driving one. I guess I don't feel unsafe driving the Miata, either, really. Sometimes when driving next to a semi, though, I get a feeling of being very small.

The size doesn't bother me, though I do feel safer in the Fiero, seeing as the roof is more than strong enough to hold up in a roll-over. I'm toast if the Miata rolls over!

I think the world is mocking me. I've never seen one in person before, but parking on my street as I went by was a can am spyder.