In all honesty, I dislike seeing anyone go broke. I've been there and it sucks. I'm still not totally out of it, but atleast I'm getting there. Personally, seeing the hours the Doctors I have worked for work themselves, Wow. Maybe it's different then a GP as I mostly have worked for surgeons and anesthesiologists, but 72 hour on call cycles look pretty sucky to me. Often I will show up to do my thing an they will be at the hospital already. I'll work 8 to 10 hours or so and they still won't be home. Maybe the Doctors I've met are just workaholics, but they put in alot of hours.

[This message has been edited by Khw (edited 01-06-2012).]

quote Originally posted by jaskispyder: If a doctor can't make a good living at his/her business, then they should work for someone else. No shame in that. And frankly I don't care about how much they spent to become a doctor, their choice. As I said before, I don't know of any poor docs. They make a good living, and many go on to be millionaires. Great for them, but time to understand that people can't afford their services.

In a truly free market, I would agree with you. What we have is no longer a free market. The government has stuck their hands into healthcare and they are implimenting price controls.

quote Originally posted by Doug85GT: In a truly free market, I would agree with you. What we have is no longer a free market. The government has stuck their hands into healthcare and they are implimenting price controls.

Which means medical schools are going to have to start charging less to teach Doctors, otherwise becoming a Doctor will become less attractive as the income potential decreases. So their classrooms will become less crowded and they will have to either stop teaching it or make it more affordable to get students in those seats. That of course will effect other markets as they can no longer spend the money they were spending for lab supplys and such to teach the students. Gotta love when the Government sticks it's hand in places.. The chain reactions are awesome! Not...

quote Originally posted by Khw: Maybe it's different then a GP as I mostly have worked for surgeons and anesthesiologists,

What has been allowed to happen by the government (via medicare) and insurers (by mirroring medicare) is that there has been a widening discrepancy in pay for doctors.

Certain specialists make A LOT of money. Other types of doctors do not.

The average pediatrician and family practice doctor makes 120 to 130,000 per year.

The surgeons you work with are likely making $400,000 or more a year.

The anesthesiologists are likely making $300,000 or more a year.


Taking nothing away from pharmacists, but THEY make about $110,000 per year.
So if you think medicare should cut reimbursement to doctors by 26% or whatever it is supposed to be this year unless they magnanimously change it, you are going to potentially kill off a lot of the worker bees of the medical field.


Hey. If that is what you guys want, cheer on. I'm going to be fine because I won't miss my general doctor. I will be able to take care of myself.

I've got a whole bunch of colleagues that are excellent and experienced, and could easily work 10 more years. But they are about at the limit where they are deciding, if that is all I'm going to make for how much work and responsibility I have to take on, then forget it. I'm retiring.

And that is going on around the country.

quote Originally posted by frontal lobe: What has been allowed to happen by the government (via medicare) and insurers (by mirroring medicare) is that there has been a widening discrepancy in pay for doctors. Certain specialists make A LOT of money. Other types of doctors do not. The average pediatrician and family practice doctor makes 120 to 130,000 per year. The surgeons you work with are likely making $400,000 or more a year. The anesthesiologists are likely making $300,000 or more a year. Taking nothing away from pharmacists, but THEY make about $110,000 per year. So if you think medicare should cut reimbursement to doctors by 26% or whatever it is supposed to be this year unless they magnanimously change it, you are going to potentially kill off a lot of the worker bees of the medical field. Hey. If that is what you guys want, cheer on. I'm going to be fine because I won't miss my general doctor. I will be able to take care of myself. I've got a whole bunch of colleagues that are excellent and experienced, and could easily work 10 more years. But they are about at the limit where they are deciding, if that is all I'm going to make for how much work and responsibility I have to take on, then forget it. I'm retiring. And that is going on around the country.

Again Frontal Lobe, thank you for your input. It's really nice to have someone give you an idea of what it's like having the shoe on the other foot.

I can understand why a anesthesiologist gets paid more, considering they have to put you under enough to keep you out, but not so far that you die. That to me would be a stressful job. Add into that things like epidurals where you run a risk of nicking the spinal cord... Scarey stuff to me. A surgeon would be just as scarey. That's not meant to take away from a GP, as while they spend alot of time diagnosing patients, they are the leadin to figuring out what needs to be treated. If they mess up, then something that should have been treated is missed and could result in something much more serious (like my neck). Plus, while a GP may not do brain surgery, that doesn't mean they don't have to do some operations. For example, my GP also delivers babies for his patients. Most of the times when I have gotten stitches, it was done by a GP on call at the urgent care. My last appointment with my GP he got a call about a 10 week premature baby he had delivered. He asked if he could take the call, which I had no problem with him doing. GP's have alot of responsibility to and I think are just as valuable as a specialized surgeon. Sure the specialized surgeon can do things the GP can't do, but he's specialized in that field and may not be as effective in another. I don't know, I guess I'm just grateful there are Doctors out there willing to "fix" me.

quote Originally posted by avengador1: That's funny. I didn't see anyone else post this story or discuss it.

You didn't either and seldom do, if at all. It's as if your scared for us to find out how stupid you are. Let me let you in on the obvious. We know already.
#1A one "post count" cut and paste by Veggiehead1 with no narrative at all.
#2A one "post count" cut and paste by Veggiehead1 with no narrative at all.
#3A one "post count" cut and paste by Veggiehead1 with no narrative at all. Not even one reply.
#4A one "post count" cut and paste by Veggiehead1 with no narrative at all. Not even one reply.
#5A one "post count" cut and paste by Veggiehead1 with no narrative at all. Then he had the gall to chide the first poster, who did not know who Tim Tebow was, for not reading a link. He, like all his spamming, did not add one comment topic related but had the gall to accuse me of being an alcoholic because I posted this ... :
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quote Originally posted by avengador1: While resisting the urge to condone and embrace destructive beliefs and behavior is not irrational nor hateful, impugning millions of faithful Christians by suggesting that they will torch mosques and exile immigrants just because a football player leads his team to victory is both.

What kind of are you spouting, ?

quote Originally posted by avengador1: I take it you didn't read the article.

Like that tease would entice anyone, .

Then I posted this ... :

quote Originally posted by WhiteDevil88: Quite simply, you are baiting.

Wrong Jeff, he is masterbaiting, for attention. I bet his post count gives him an orgasm. Have you noticed his posts ? If he don't get enough hits/comments, you would think we aren't interested in his post. He will bump his own post to get attention.

quote Originally posted by WhiteDevil88: ... your posts traditionally take the form of an opinion piece ...

Your wrong again Jeff. Veggiedor told us, . Think about it Jeff. They are his opinions. Oh sure, he justifies them by saying that he thinks that we would be interested in other posted opinions his opinion, but that is just not so. You know what they say. "Opinions are like azzholes". Everyone has one and he claims he thinks we are interested in every azzhole he smells, .
Check this gem out.

quote Originally posted by avengador1: ... there also is no need for me to post an opinion if I don't want to post one or think it isn't needed.

Heh, if you believed his logic, why would he not want to post one ? He claims that it is just for our interest yet says he wouldn't do it if it wasn't needed, .
Fact is, he is a mental midget. A dishonest one at that. He buys into all these azzhole's he comes across yet is scared to defend them. Fact is, is that he can not think for himself so he uses us to debate and rationalize the azzholes.

quote Originally posted by avengador1: I post less because people were complaining that I posted too much.

Do you need some money from me so you can buy a clue, or reading comprehension classes. I will have to get a loan from the bank for enough money to help you get some common sense.
How come no one complains that maryjane posts too much ? No Veggiedoor, they did not complain that you posted too much. You say you like to read. Go back and read all your boring posts and you will see that the complaint was that you would make up a National Enquirer like thread title and cut and paste the whole article, with zero feedback from you as to why you thought we would be interested in you boring us and why you thought it was worth the waste of Cliff's bandwidth. The cutting and pasting of the whole article was the objection to posting too much. Too much crap, Veggiedoor.

quote Originally posted by avengador1: Most of the articles I post are interesting to me.

Gee ! Look at the shiny object. Are you a blond Veggiedoor ?

quote Originally posted by avengador1: I decided to share them so that others would be informed ...

Informed, , ? Do you really think we read the crap that you post, ?

quote Originally posted by avengador1: I decided to share them so that others would be amused ...

Heh, I am often amused at you stupidity but you are lying. You yourself are amused as you watch us vet the crap you post.

quote Originally posted by avengador1: I decided to share them so that others would be irked.

Ah yes, the generic emoticon, . You post azzhole opinions to irk. What a douchebag.
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He is masterbaiting, for attention. I bet his post count gives him an orgasm. Have you noticed his posts ? If he don't get enough hits/comments, you would think we aren't interested in his post. He will bump his own post to get attention.

#6A one "post count" cut and paste by Veggiehead1 with no narrative at all. Well one post till there was no reply, then he bumped it with another cut and paste, 25 days later, . Three days later, he bumped it again with yet another cut and paste. Pretty much every post he made was a cut and paste opinion of someone else's.
#7A one "post count" cut and paste by Veggiehead1 with no narrative at all.. Well one cut and paste lead in post then a bump seven days later when that died a boring death.
#8A one "post count" cut and paste by Veggiehead1 with no narrative at all..

[This message has been edited by cliffw (edited 01-07-2012).]

I don’t see the problem as the doctors more the insurers. They are the ones who make everything more expensive. Then the corrupt politicians. Then the crooked executives.

All those have increased with the blessing of the government.

Steve
Cliff how do you change the color in your posts and the names in the links without changing the link?
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Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.

Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 01-06-2012).]

quote Originally posted by cliffw Blah, blah,blah...Ah yes, the generic emoticon, . You post azzhole opinions to irk. What a douchebag.

Drunk posting again? Don't you have an AA meeting or a lawyer to meeting to go to you drunken douchebag?
Here's a new emoticon just for your drunken ass.

quote Originally posted by frontal lobe: I've got a whole bunch of colleagues that are excellent and experienced, and could easily work 10 more years. But they are about at the limit where they are deciding, if that is all I'm going to make for how much work and responsibility I have to take on, then forget it. I'm retiring. And that is going on around the country.

I think that trend is going to continue. The end result is we're going to have fewer doctors and the ones we have will be less experienced.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: I think that trend is going to continue. The end result is we're going to have fewer doctors and the ones we have will be less experienced.

Less experienced? Based on what data? Why does age equal experience? Younger doctors, may be willing to learn more, take on more responsibility for the reward of higher pay or personal gain. Doctors who are older, closer to retirement may not be up to speed on the latest procedures or medicines as they don't see the value, or are at the top of their pay range.

As for doctors "retiring early", only a select number of people can chose to retire early, usually these people have money from family or from a high income.

Age doesn't equal experience. Experience equals experience.
Education does not equal experience.

You may disagree, but reality doesn't care.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: Age doesn't equal experience. Experience equals experience. Education does not equal experience. You may disagree, but reality doesn't care.

Holy Sh!t you and I agree on something. Hell just froze over. I knew my Dad would eventually get cold beer down there somehow.


Steve

------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.

Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: I don’t see the problem as the doctors more the insurers.

They are part of the problem in that they can be part of the solution. The doctors that aren't willing to be part of the solution are a problem.


In the context of this discussion, there are specialists that SHOULD make more money than other types of doctors due to the higher risks, higher demands, higher responsibility and higher training requirements.

It is just that the government and insurers have made the DISCREPANCY in pay SO large as to be unreasonable.


Then society looks at the SPECIALISTS getting rich, and think ALL doctors should have their pay reduced. That isn't the solution. You can leave the lower earnings ones where they are already, and reduce the pay of the "over paid".

quote Originally posted by frontal lobe: Isn't it easy to cheer for the plight of those you consider more fortunate than you?

Huh, I didn't see ANYONE do that...

Could it be that you feel a bit of a persecution complex here since you are in the medical field? Nobody "cheered" for Doctors going broke, just many of us don't freely give our sympathies to those that are complaining about having no money considering what medical costs have been going for the last 20-30 years.

Cheering for the plight of anyone.. ideed! Just make sure you don't get too hung up on responding to this that you miss your 4 oclock tee time.

Edit:
(just joshin with ya, all in good fun)

[This message has been edited by tbone42 (edited 01-10-2012).]

Just like the local gp who kept a woman on antibiotics instead of properly investigating that she actually had a cancerous tumor. Guess who found the tumor.... Yup, the younger, MORE experienced doc, and not the older gp. Frankly, I would rather go to a mid-career professional, doctor or mechanic. These stories of the potential doc who runs out of money is just that. Bad business decisions will cause any business to fail. I don't feel sorry for anyone who can't run a business. That is just life and they should work for some else. These docs who can't get their practice to make money should work for another doc, clinic, or hospital. Small business is a risk.

[This message has been edited by jaskispyder (edited 01-07-2012).]

quote Originally posted by frontal lobe: Age doesn't EQUAL experience 100%. But in general, if two people are working the same amount of hours in the same field, then the older one will just have been around longer to have simply seen and experienced more situations. In the automotive field, who would you rather go to? The mechanic 2 years out of training who has just recently trained on all the newest stuff? Or the 50 year old mechanic who hasn't had any recent training, but has seen just about everything? I don't care what your answer is. People can pick what they want. But MOST people are going to pick the 50 year old mechanic. As for retiring early, I am 55 years old and have been in general internal medicine practice, so one of the lower paid doctors. But I've been wise. I can retire tomorrow. If I retire tomorrow, society will miss out on the 15 more years I could probably do, and the 25 plus years of experience I have. I know at least 10 other of my colleagues that could do the same thing. For what I do, I'm significantly better than the new residents graduating. They have the "latest training". Just got out. Good for them. I have the ability to keep up on what is important, and 25 years of experience. Guess which wins? (and doesn't mean the new residents aren't good. They are more than competent. Better than competent.)

Doc.
You can work on my car or me anytime. Just remember, I'm allergic to pain.

------------------
Ron
The key thing is to wake up breathing! All the rest can be fixed. (Except Stupid - You can't fix that)

It is interesting how there are so many uneducated people on this forum that feel they always need to make their opinion on topics that they have no experience with or have no knowledge of... and then continue stating their opinion. I guess this is freedom of speech. Wow... such a wasted freedom on some. I wish I could have the 10mins back that it took me through this thread. sigh....

quote Originally posted by jaskispyder: Bad business decisions will cause any business to fail. I don't feel sorry for anyone who can't run a business. That is just life and they should work for some else. These docs who can't get their practice to make money should work for another doc, clinic, or hospital. Small business is a risk.

How about the government say you can make $50/hr as a mechanic, but you have to work on any government motorpool cars for a flat fee of $20, regardless of how long it takes you to fix them?
Then you get a stream of motorpool cars all needing complete engine rebuilds. Let's see, you need about $200 in parts and it takes you 8 hours of labor to install, and you make $20 on it.
Hey, tough sh*t. You should make better business decisions. (ignoring the fact that the government, not YOU, mandated what your pay is)
Oh, and you'll need to keep paying the overhead on your garage, and your insurance just went up 100% this year.
How long before you decide being a mechanic with these requirements is more hassle than it's worth?

BTW, when you're ready for your next oil change, you'll need to schedule the appointment 3 months in advance. Most of the "experienced" techs at Jiffy Lube are now doing engine rebuilds for the government.

I'm not whining about the poor doctors being unable to take care of themselves. I'm sure they'll do just fine. What I am concerned about is how many good doctors will leave the field because of this and our medical care will deteriorate as a result. When government mandated a limit on gas prices, do you know what that did? Did it keep cheap gas for everyone? Nope, it created massive shortages. Sure, it was cheap, *IF* you could get any. Stand in line.




Won't it be great when doctor's office waiting rooms look like this?

[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 01-07-2012).]

Actually you have it wrong. In this case you were making $200 an hr on everyone else and the government said we won't pay that for and really, we will pay you a reasonable $50 an hr and this is only for cars you CHOSE to work on. It is your choice. Take government cars or not. You could still just service non-gov cars.

So what you are saying is that all the good docs will quit because the won't make enough money. Sounds like they are only doing it for the money, and only if it is a lot of money. Greed? I don't see an issue with private practices being challenged, it is how capitalism works. May be we should give them a socialist mininum wage? Is that the answer? They can't afford to live within their means, so the government should step in to help.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: How about the government say you can make $50/hr as a mechanic, but you have to work on any government motorpool cars for a flat fee of $20, regardless of how long it takes you to fix them? Then you get a stream of motorpool cars all needing complete engine rebuilds. Let's see, you need about $200 in parts and it takes you 8 hours of labor to install, and you make $20 on it. Hey, tough sh*t. You should make better business decisions. (ignoring the fact that the government, not YOU, mandated what your pay is) Oh, and you'll need to keep paying the overhead on your garage, and your insurance just went up 100% this year. How long before you decide being a mechanic with these requirements is more hassle than it's worth? BTW, when you're ready for your next oil change, you'll need to schedule the appointment 3 months in advance. Most of the "experienced" techs at Jiffy Lube are now doing engine rebuilds for the government. I'm not whining about the poor doctors being unable to take care of themselves. I'm sure they'll do just fine. What I am concerned about is how many good doctors will leave the field because of this and our medical care will deteriorate as a result. When government mandated a limit on gas prices, do you know what that did? Did it keep cheap gas for everyone? Nope, it created massive shortages. Sure, it was cheap, *IF* you could get any. Stand in line. Won't it be great when doctor's office waiting rooms look like this?

[This message has been edited by jaskispyder (edited 01-07-2012).]

Never mind.

[This message has been edited by carnut122 (edited 01-07-2012).]

quote Originally posted by jaskispyder: Actually you have it wrong. In this case you were making $200 an hr on everyone else and the government said we won't pay that for and really, we will pay you a reasonable $50 an hr and this is only for cars you CHOSE to work on. It is your choice. Take government cars or not. You could still just service non-gov cars.

It's already happening. We're already seeing more and more doctors refusing to take new Medicare and Medicaid patients. Most will only take them if you were their patient before going on Medicare or Medicaid. The system can't work like that, so eventually the government will mandate that doctors must take any Medicare or Medicaid patient. That will give doctors more incentive to find another line of work or retire.

So you've got your government car with guaranteed service, but you can't find a mechanic willing to work on it.
Once the government mandates all mechanics work on them, you can find one, but there's a 6 month waiting list.

Don't let your schadenfreude cloud your judgement.

quote Originally posted by jaskispyder: Actually you have it wrong. In this case you were making $200 an hr on everyone else and the government said we won't pay that for and really, we will pay you a reasonable $50 an hr and this is only for cars you CHOSE to work on. It is your choice. Take government cars or not. You could still just service non-gov cars.

Your analogy breaks down because you FORGET an important piece. Yes, take government cars or not.

Oh, by the way, once drivers get over 65, THE GOVERNMENT is going to provide cars for people. So about 40% of the population are going to have government cars.


Oh yeah, and WE THE GOVERNMENT will decide what is "reasonable".

And oh yeah, we the government will tell you which parts you can use and can't use. And we the government will tell you what paperwork and documentation we will require, not just about the cars of ours that you fix, but about everything related to your business, and oh, btw, we don't care what that documentation costs you in over head.

Not my analogy. Change is tough, but the average american (ie.. the rest of us) can not afford to pay medical bills. Either we need to not use the services, or the services need to be affordable. Remember when cars were built one at a time, remember when computers were hand built, remember when docs made house calls? Times change and businesses need to adapt... this is true for anyone running a business. If you don't like it, then time to do something else. There will be someone who can provide the level of service required, and if not, the people will drive change within the government. We are in a state of flux and basically it is the high cost of medical coverage that is driving this. When is the last time you could see a doctor for less than $50 (for 5 minutes)? I haven't had that privilege in decades.

Oh, back to the analogy.. which isn't mine.... you have a choice in getting your car running or not. UNLIKE, your life, sometimes you have to see the doctor, or the hospital because your life depends on it. This is the difference..... sometimes you don't have a choice and it would be nice to know that you will not have to be in debt, or even have to decide on food for the family, or paying the doctor's bill.

I have no sympathy for any person who can not run a business, as there are risks with the rewards.... it goes with the game. Where is it written that doctors must never go bankrupt? No shame in bankruptcy, just bad business sense. If you (generic) on't like the game, time to move on. We are all replaceable, even doctors, as there is someone with the same expertise who will work for slightly less, as we are not talking min. wage, here.

quote Originally posted by frontal lobe: Your analogy breaks down because you FORGET an important piece. Yes, take government cars or not. Oh, by the way, once drivers get over 65, THE GOVERNMENT is going to provide cars for people. So about 40% of the population are going to have government cars. Oh yeah, and WE THE GOVERNMENT will decide what is "reasonable". And oh yeah, we the government will tell you which parts you can use and can't use. And we the government will tell you what paperwork and documentation we will require, not just about the cars of ours that you fix, but about everything related to your business, and oh, btw, we don't care what that documentation costs you in over head.

quote Originally posted by jaskispyder: Who knows what will happen... but if a few private practice doctors can't make it, where is the real loss? That was the point of all of this. "Doctors going broke", right? If they can't make their business run, then yes, it will fail. We can talk about the future all we want, but it could change at any time. But if a current general practice can not succeed, then the manager doesn't know how to run a business. Frankly, I don't have any feelings about this as I have yet to see a doctor offer me money back for being in and out of their office in 5 minutes. Hmm, hey, there is an idea.... hourly rates... that would be interesting

You keep missing the point to the entire article and thread. The failures are cropping up not because of some widespread inability of doctors to run their practices, but because of increasing regulations, insurance premiums, drug costs, and decreasing insurance reimbursements, etc. I have no doubt some of it is due to poor management, but that has always been a factor for any business. The question you should be asking is why the increase now and what does that mean?

I'm not talking about the future when I mention the dwindling number of doctors who take new Medicare and Medicaid patients. It's real. It's happening now. I'm sure you won't be concerned until it affects you or a loved one directly, but the overall trend will lead to less quality medical care.

You only have to read on here or anywhere about people in other countries having long waiting lists to see a doctor. You complain about the "5 minute" visit from your doctor, but do you think this trend will improve on that?

Also, we do have some doctors who are not taking insurance anymore. We have one practice near where I live that runs a cash-only business. Yes, his prices are cheaper, but he doesn't take insurance. You pay when you see the doctor, whether that's $20, $50, or whatever. It's up to you to figure out how to pay for your procedures and prescriptions. He offers his services at a discount from the insurance rates, but it's still more than your co-pay would have been. Maybe we'll see more of that in the future? It certainly solves the problem of all the insurance and government red tape. Just make sure you can afford to get sick.

Nope, didn't miss the point. You missed it. It is cloaked under the "Obamacare will force all doctors to go bankrupt". I am not a fan of Obamacare, but what you have is a case of bad business.

Oh, the "increase" (if you will, as I don't remember seeing stats about GPs closing over the past 50 years), is because of poor business management and a "company" who can not see that the cash cow is on the way out and it is time to tighten the belt.

The future will be different for everyone, but that isn't a bad thing. It is change.... nothing more.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: You keep missing the point to the entire article and thread. The failures are cropping up not because of some widespread inability of doctors to run their practices, but because of increasing regulations, insurance premiums, drug costs, and decreasing insurance reimbursements, etc. I have no doubt some of it is due to poor management, but that has always been a factor for any business. The question you should be asking is why the increase now and what does that mean? I'm not talking about the future when I mention the dwindling number of doctors who take new Medicare and Medicaid patients. It's real. It's happening now. I'm sure you won't be concerned until it affects you or a loved one directly, but the overall trend will lead to less quality medical care. You only have to read on here or anywhere about people in other countries having long waiting lists to see a doctor. You complain about the "5 minute" visit from your doctor, but do you think this trend will improve on that? Also, we do have some doctors who are not taking insurance anymore. We have one practice near where I live that runs a cash-only business. Yes, his prices are cheaper, but he doesn't take insurance. You pay when you see the doctor, whether that's $20, $50, or whatever. It's up to you to figure out how to pay for your procedures and prescriptions. He offers his services at a discount from the insurance rates, but it's still more than your co-pay would have been. Maybe we'll see more of that in the future? It certainly solves the problem of all the insurance and government red tape. Just make sure you can afford to get sick.

A doctor should be able to charge whatever he or she wants for a service. It's up to us to decide if the price is "worth it".

I don't have a problem with a doctor being in it for the money. If they weren't, we'd have far less doctors. People don't want to go to school until they are almost 30 to get a regular paying job.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: You could have just stopped there and said the same thing.

Time to tighten the belts... the cash cow is going away.

quote Originally posted by jaskispyder: Time to tighten the belts... the cash cow is going away.

Just keep telling yourself that when you have to wait 6 months for a procedure.

BTW, doctors are not immune to the economy, which is surprising to them, I bet. Welcome to the real world where there are no guarantees. Other people go through just as much education and they don't get the kind of money handed to them as some doctors. So using education as an excuse for high pay is not always valid.

quote Originally posted by jaskispyder: Become a doctor for the money or for the love of the job? hmmm

I would think it has to be both. It's far too difficult and expensive to become a doctor to do it solely for altruistic reasons unless you're already wealthy. Also, a doctor who's only in it for the money isn't likely to be a very good doctor, IMO. Even if it's not for the money, you need to be able to make the money to pay back the expenses to become a doctor. Otherwise, it's much easier to go into some other field.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: Just keep telling yourself that when you have to wait 6 months for a procedure.

The future is not written in stone, but keep thinking it, as that is all you can see.... those poor doctors.... oh no, what will we ever do. Quick maybe we should have "doc-aid" and raise money for them and their plight.

quote Originally posted by jaskispyder: BTW, doctors are not immune to the economy, which is surprising to them, I bet. Welcome to the real world where there are no guarantees. Other people go through just as much education and they don't get the kind of money handed to them as some doctors. So using education as an excuse for high pay is not always valid.

Government mandated reimbursement levels are not "the economy," which is surprising to you, I bet.

Please give me an example of the other fields with as much training requirement as an M.D. that is low paying.
Just for reference, to become an M.D. requires:
1. Graduate High School
2. Obtain a Batchelor's Degree (4 years)
3. Graduate from Medical School (4 years)
4. Complete Residency (3-5 years)
5. Complete Fellowship Training (0-3 years, depending on specialty)

So that's 11 - 16 years of post-High School training.

[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 01-10-2012).]