http://jalopnik.com/5872097...-on-your-chevy-sonic

If you purchased a 2012 Chevy Sonic you might want to check and see if the car's brake pads are all there as GM now admits they may have shipped as many as 4,296 of them without them. Also, they're not notifying anyone until mid-January. Happy New Year!

GM is recalling approximately 4,300 of the Sonics sold in the United States because they fear the vehicles may be missing an inner or outer front brake pad. The cars are all from GM's Orion Township assembly in Michigan (the company has been touting the car's American-built bonafides).

Customers are going to start receiving letters from dealers "beginning January 14th" asking them to get their car inspected.

We wouldn't wait that long without checking. Sure, your Sonic will still stop if it's missing one brake pad. Call us crazy but we like having all our brakes.

Kinda an important thing to remember to install. Wonder which one it is-- an inner --or outer that they left off? Surely not the one on the piston side...

Government Motors union quality control in action. Maybe the boys were out for a few brewskies and some pot breaks at lunch and just forgot to install the brakes!!!!

quote Originally posted by Old Lar: Government Motors union quality control in action. Maybe the boys were out for a few brewskies and some pot breaks at lunch and just forgot to install the brakes!!!!

Sounds like it.. or maybe a new guy at the job didn't know they had to put them in...?

Thats just insane... Brake pads?

This has to be a new low in the industry.

Pictured, 2012 Chevy Sonic

I don't see how the guy that put them on the truck for shipment would have missed it.. then the guy that dropped them off the truck at the dealer. sure, if the piston side had a pad it would stop, but it still should have made some noise and feel 'odd'...

quote Originally posted by User00013170: I don't see how the guy that put them on the truck for shipment would have missed it.. then the guy that dropped them off the truck at the dealer. sure, if the piston side had a pad it would stop, but it still should have made some noise and feel 'odd'...

What surprises me is in PA at least every new car has to go through a real thorough inspection before they go on the lot for sale.

Its one of those just in time shipping deals. They have parts delivered exactly when needed, so they don't need large warehouses. Reality dictates a lot happens out on the road and those break pads may be 3 days late. The cars are finished aside from the pads, and they have rework guys finish them up. A break of communication probably caused them to be sent out as finished products, rather than having the pads installed when they came in.

Just another attempt at cutting corners that kills companies.

My son just brought this to my attention. He just took delivery of a new one LT with a 5sp. He checked and everything is there. It is a fun little car to drive. At 6ft I can sit in the back seat comfortably.

Rich

quote Originally posted by User00013170: I don't see how the guy that put them on the truck for shipment would have missed it.. then the guy that dropped them off the truck at the dealer. sure, if the piston side had a pad it would stop, but it still should have made some noise and feel 'odd'...

This....You would think someone that moved the car would have noticed the grinding/noise when brakes applied.....

Bottom line, GM/Chevy is a garbage company. They always have been crap with their never ending electrical issues in their vehicles as well as their half-assed assembly plants. I have seen Corvettes come off the line and when they start it for the 2nd time, the "security" light comes on and the steering wheel locks due to faulty parts. Great safety item when you are racing at 140mph and your steering wheel lock solenoid glitches to the locked position in a straight line due to a faulty solenoid and you wreck. GM/Chevy=Bullshit vehicles. I buy either Ford or Dodge.

[This message has been edited by IMSA GT (edited 12-30-2011).]

Wanna know how they are doing 1 yr after exiting bankruptcy and holding their New GM stock IPO back in Nov 2010?
How's our $50 billion investment going?

quote On the day of the GM IPO, America did cash in some 400 million shares of GM stock, leaving us (the government) with just 500 million shares. Our stake in the ownership of the car company has now fallen from over 60 percent to 26 percent. And we (the government) have recouped $23.1 billion of the $50 spent. That was the good news. This past week the Treasury Department released the news that losses from the auto industry bailouts are expected to INCREASE from $14.3 billion to $26.6 billion. The blame for this increased loss is placed squarely on the large drop in GM’s stock price. On January 7th of this year, GM’s stock peaked at $38.98. As of Friday’s close, GM’s stock price had fallen to $20.27… a 35 percent drop from the IPO price

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 12-31-2011).]

quote Originally posted by dennis_6: Its one of those just in time shipping deals. They have parts delivered exactly when needed, so they don't need large warehouses. Reality dictates a lot happens out on the road and those break pads may be 3 days late. The cars are finished aside from the pads, and they have rework guys finish them up. A break of communication probably caused them to be sent out as finished products, rather than having the pads installed when they came in. Just another attempt at cutting corners that kills companies.

This is the only reasonable explaination. Unfortunately, "the assembly line never stops" is what compromised OLD GM's quality. Same old sheit at the NEW GM.

quote Originally posted by FrugalFiero: This is the only reasonable explaination. Unfortunately, "the assembly line never stops" is what compromised OLD GM's quality. Same old sheit at the NEW GM.

I have to wonder with all the robots at all the auto plants if it was done by them instead of a human?

You know it’s possible right?

Steve

------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.

Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: I have to wonder with all the robots at all the auto plants if it was done by them instead of a human? You know it’s possible right? Steve

No. It's not. There are some operations that will be manual for some time to come...this is one of them.

Technology is not the problem.

quote Originally posted by AntiKev: No. It's not. There are some operations that will be manual for some time to come...this is one of them. Technology is not the problem.

So you have been to GM's Orion Township assembly in Michigan and watched that part of the assembly on the 2012 Chevy Sonic.

That is the only way you can be sure.

Just asking.

Steve

------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.

Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

ROTFFLMGDAO !!!!!!

Ya know, I wouild think having to use that tree or hydro pole to stop WOULD be a hint that there is something wrong with the brakes ...LMAO, ya know, that center peedle--the one in the middle...its actually supposed to make you stop the vehical !!!!!

ROTFFLMAO..............ok, I think I just peed myself laughing.

It cracks me up how quickly people want to jump on the "government motors" joke which is really what that is, a joke.
The government doesnt have anything to do with how the general day to day operations that go on inside the GM assembly plants.
As much as you may want to blame government involvement this crap is purely a GM problem.

However as with many components that are supplied to GM the brake system may be a purchased component.
Meaning this may have been the fault of a supplier to GM that sends them a brake caliper assembly. Which also means it could be a supplier that sells brake assemblies to all car makers. Which also means this error could have easily have happened at Ford, Chrysler, Honda, Toyota or any other maker.

What surprises me is that it wasnt caught at final inspection. That makes me think it was a rear axle brake pad which may not be so noticeable.

I think I'll wait a bit longer until I consider buying another GM car.

quote Originally posted by FrugalFiero: This is the only reasonable explaination. Unfortunately, "the assembly line never stops" is what compromised OLD GM's quality. Same old sheit at the NEW GM.

In the old days of JIT that was not really the case. If parts didn't arrive on time, the entire system broke down and everything came to a (expensive) grinding halt. I used to work on ordering/delivery scheduling systems for Delco ( still was GM then ) back in the 80s, and the dollar loss per hour if things didn't go right was staggering due to the domino effect.

It's my understanding, that the brake pads aren't installed on the car as it rolls down the line --iow, it's not as you and I would do it at home when replacing the pads. It's a sub assembly, and the pads fell off the larger wheel assembly and went unoticed, left in the bottom of the shipping containers.

quote The missing brake pads -- part of a subassembly of components -- fell off before the cars were assembled and had remained unnoticed at the bottom of containers being shipped to the Orion Township factory, said GM spokesman Alan Adler, according to Automotive News

I can't verify it's accuracy, but according to some of the reader coments I have read, the subassembly is made in India, shipped in containers to Mi USA, then installed on the rest of the vehicle in Orion Township. It was only discovered when a dealer was doing unrelated warranty work on a customer's Sonic. You would think tho, that some human being would be more than a bit curious about WHY some brake pads were lying around in the bottom of a shipping container that held those sub assemblys.

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 12-31-2011).]

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: I have to wonder with all the robots at all the auto plants if it was done by them instead of a human? You know it’s possible right? Steve

Either way, QA is done by people. And apparently that didn't happen here. ( i have seen it before in other situations that caused major safety issues, but it was still people that 'dropped the ball' ultimately )

Inspectors are unionized employees.

And it doesn't surprise me that GM would let 5,000 cars go with a missing brake pad.

QA is just one thing. There biggest problem is that they don't have a quality workforce.

quote Originally posted by maryjane: It's my understanding, that the brake pads aren't installed on the car as it rolls down the line --iow, it's not as you and I would do it at home when replacing the pads. It's a sub assembly, and the pads fell off the larger wheel assembly and went unoticed, left in the bottom of the shipping containers. I can't verify it's accuracy, but according to some of the reader coments I have read, the subassembly is made in India, shipped in containers to Mi USA, then installed on the rest of the vehicle in Orion Township. It was only discovered when a dealer was doing unrelated warranty work on a customer's Sonic. You would think tho, that some human being would be more than a bit curious about WHY some brake pads were lying around in the bottom of a shipping container that held those sub assemblys.

It is not unusual to find parts in the bottom of the container. Some not even related to what was in it. I found a set of hotel master keys in the bottom of one once.

quote Originally posted by User00013170: Either way, QA is done by people. And apparently that didn't happen here. ( i have seen it before in other situations that caused major safety issues, but it was still people that 'dropped the ball' ultimately )

Not always anymore, robots take X-rays and check QC themselves and still make mistakes.

quote Originally posted by Wichita: Inspectors are unionized employees. And it doesn't surprise me that GM would let 5,000 cars go with a missing brake pad. QA is just one thing. There biggest problem is that they don't have a quality workforce.

And you would know this because you worked at a auto assembly plant?

I was always proud of the work that I did as an Autoworker and tried to do the best job on every vehicle I ever put my hands on.

Never judge a man until you have walked a mile in their shoes.

Steve

------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.

Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: Never judge a man until you have walked a mile in their shoes.

Because if you do, you will have his shoes, be a mile away and by then you can say what the hell you want about that person.

Attitude and world view is all I need to judge a person.

Especially if a person is on government assistance.

quote Originally posted by maryjane: It's my understanding, that the brake pads aren't installed on the car as it rolls down the line --iow, it's not as you and I would do it at home when replacing the pads. It's a sub assembly, and the pads fell off the larger wheel assembly and went unoticed, left in the bottom of the shipping containers. I can't verify it's accuracy, but according to some of the reader coments I have read, the subassembly is made in India, shipped in containers to Mi USA, then installed on the rest of the vehicle in Orion Township. It was only discovered when a dealer was doing unrelated warranty work on a customer's Sonic. You would think tho, that some human being would be more than a bit curious about WHY some brake pads were lying around in the bottom of a shipping container that held those sub assemblys.

So much for the anti-union/anti-GM crowd? 4,300 vehicles hardly qualifies as a massive recall compared to Toyota's 11,500,000 vehicles over the past three years. I'll keep buying GM.

http://www.autoblog.com/201...ll-number-of-u-s-re/

[This message has been edited by carnut122 (edited 12-31-2011).]

Not a new problem.
My mother bought a new Malibu in 1970. It was missing the two main bolts that held the front sub-frame on and two of the four U-bolts that held the rear axle to the springs.

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: I was always proud of the work that I did as an Autoworker and tried to do the best job on every vehicle I ever put my hands on.

For decades i worked in the automotive market ( in IT, not out on a line or anything ) and i met many many people out on the floor with the same feeling. Sure there were some bad apples as there are in any industry, but the vast majority of people did care about the job they were doing.

quote Originally posted by carnut122: So much for the anti-union/anti-GM crowd? 4,300 vehicles hardly qualifies as a massive recall compared to Toyota's 11,500,000 vehicles over the past three years. I'll keep buying GM. http://www.autoblog.com/201...ll-number-of-u-s-re/

Yea. But common sense will solve most of toyotas issues. Missing brake pads is another thing entirely. If your throttle sticks put it in neutral. If your brake pedal goes to the floor hope you hit something soft. Id rather have a throttle stick. I own GM garbage and its the last Government motors car I will ever own.

Didn't someone here on the board recently purchase a Sonic? I seem to remember seeing the pictures, red in color if I remember right. Hopefully they see this thread and check theirs.

Edit: I found the thread and posted a link to this one. It was Tinton.

[This message has been edited by Khw (edited 12-31-2011).]

While certainly no excuse for GM letting the cars reach customers with parts missing, it appears that the brakes pads were just part of a subassembly shipped into the plant from a supplier. When I was a chassis designer at Saturn the entire rear suspension (suspension, rear diff, brakes, knuckles,etc...) for the VUE was shipped from a supplier as a single subassembly. All the plant did was place that assembly onto a carrier, along with the front suspension/exaust/motor/fluel system. That entire carrier of chassis parts was then lifted up to the vehicle structure and all the interface attachments made. Machines did the fluid fills and bleads prior to this "marriage".

The entire reason for making these large subassemblies is to save time at the plant from not having to install and inspect all of the components. That is what the supplier is paid to do. Certain specifications and requirements must be met by the supplier to ensure quality parts go onto the vehicle. Obviously there was a break down in the quality process. And apparently no process at the plant to ensure that the supplier parts were to specification (again, the plant shouldn't have to check every part as the supplier is supposed to ship 100% "good" parts) before and after final assembly.

Unless someone was expressly looking for "missing pads", a loaded brake assembly attached to a knuckle makes it an effort to notice the pads themselves. If these were the inside rear pads it's very possible they could go undetected. The rear brakes only do about 25% of the braking and most people don't even notice when their rear brakes are not working correctly. They might make a noise, but with brand new virgin rotors and caliper pistons, that noise might not be all that alarming (until the parts get scored and worn in enough to start making some LOUD noises). How many times have you seen or heard of people driving around and stopping with little to no brake pad material left on their brakes? Basically metal to metal contact. And then they are surprised to find out how bad the brakes really were. So it's possible that the cars perform near normal since there have been no accidents or other major complaints (that we know of yet).

Whatever the case, this is a PR nightmare for GM. Any and all GM critics will work themselves into a frenzy about "Government Motors" and "Union workers" and "GM makes junk" etc....just like the Volt battery fire incident at NHTSA. This certainly won't help GM's effort to improve their image.

quote Originally posted by turbotoad: This certainly won't help GM's effort to improve their image.

I think thats the point. When something goes wrong where I work, we end up with everyone along the chain of command riding our asses for months... ESPECIALLY when a paying customer gets pissed.

If you want to change people's perception of your company, you have to ensure that you don't make the same screw ups that landed you in the crapper with the buying public in the first place.

quote Originally posted by carnut122: So much for the anti-union/anti-GM crowd? 4,300 vehicles hardly qualifies as a massive recall compared to Toyota's 11,500,000 vehicles over the past three years. I'll keep buying GM. http://www.autoblog.com/201...ll-number-of-u-s-re/

"Pssst--hey--don't look here--look over there---it will make everything alright."

It used to be dealerships did a presale prep on everything as it got off the trailer. They checked all fluids and pressures and every accessory in the vehicle to make sure it worked properly and did a short test drive. Most I knew had 2 full time guys that did that. They also washed and cleaned every one. In the 90s they stopped doing anything at all. One dealer told me it was too expensive to pay for full time employees to do that. It was cheaper to just wash off the car and put it in inventory and let the customer bring it back when they found problems.... Nice way to treat a sale huh ? Maybe some dealers have started doing it again, but I doubt it.

I understand the American auto industry has had its share of failures. Some have handled it better than others such as Ford placing itself in a better financial position when the economy took a dump. The industry is over 100 years old and struggles with not only the regular challenges of bringing a car to market that is affordable, reliable, and something the masses want to drive. They have to deal with their past. A long historic past. Meaning changing peoples perception of the quality they have in year past. They pay large sums of money to retired workers from back when the industry could afford to pay the high salaries that were available. Back when GM had over 50% of the US auto sales. But times have changed and with a company as large as GM, Ford or even Chrysler change is not quick. Its hard to alter a workforce that in years past was over paid, had extravagant benefits and the company was fat and happy. The Japanese came in and kicked our asses. They finally realized they had to change and have been trying ever since. In a lot of ways they were playing catch up. I believe the US auto makers were always ahead of the game in technology and engine production. The Japanese had a handle on the quality.
The people on here that post negative comments about how GM has poor quality then reference a car from the 1970's and really have no idea what goes on in an Assembly plant today crack me up. They have no idea what they are talking about but have an opinion and state it as though its fact.
I deal with all the auto makers from a suppliers standpoint. I have been into GM, Ford, Kia, Toyota, Honda, Chrysler, assembly plants and I'm here to tell you the quality is about the same for all the makers. The one thing which was common with the Japanese in the 90's were they would just bury their quality issues. They wouldnt generate the paperwork and fix the problem and keep it tucked under the rug. With the latest throttle issues I'm not too sure it doesnt still happen.

So for those of you that have no idea what happens when a quality spill happens let me explain. They all have their own version or name for their quality system but essentially its all the same. Its evolved and been called 5 phase, 8D's, CR reports, and so on. they all have an acronym but when something is detected in the plant or from a dealership the process is basically the same. 1) Identify the issue 2) contain the spill. 3) determine the root cause. 4) fix the root cause of the problem. 5) verify the fix works. 6) document for lessons learned update control plans.

So all suppliers are held to these standards. The fact that GM is recalling 4500 vehicles tells me the supplier can contain the failure to that lot of parts. It may have only happened on 3 vehicles but if the supplier cannot be sure they will recall all of them.
So as much as people's perception of GM hasnt changed the quailty has and I would say they are on par with any other car maker. Technically since they sell more cars than any other maker in the US they should statistically have more recalls. Not sure that is the case.

quote Originally posted by rstubie: I understand the American auto industry has had its share of failures. Some have handled it better than others such as Ford placing itself in a better financial position when the economy took a dump. The industry is over 100 years old and struggles with not only the regular challenges of bringing a car to market that is affordable, reliable, and something the masses want to drive. They have to deal with their past. A long historic past. Meaning changing peoples perception of the quality they have in year past. They pay large sums of money to retired workers from back when the industry could afford to pay the high salaries that were available. Back when GM had over 50% of the US auto sales. But times have changed and with a company as large as GM, Ford or even Chrysler change is not quick. Its hard to alter a workforce that in years past was over paid, had extravagant benefits and the company was fat and happy. The Japanese came in and kicked our asses. They finally realized they had to change and have been trying ever since. In a lot of ways they were playing catch up. I believe the US auto makers were always ahead of the game in technology and engine production. The Japanese had a handle on the quality. The people on here that post negative comments about how GM has poor quality then reference a car from the 1970's and really have no idea what goes on in an Assembly plant today crack me up. They have no idea what they are talking about but have an opinion and state it as though its fact. I deal with all the auto makers from a suppliers standpoint. I have been into GM, Ford, Kia, Toyota, Honda, Chrysler, assembly plants and I'm here to tell you the quality is about the same for all the makers. The one thing which was common with the Japanese in the 90's were they would just bury their quality issues. They wouldnt generate the paperwork and fix the problem and keep it tucked under the rug. With the latest throttle issues I'm not too sure it doesnt still happen. So for those of you that have no idea what happens when a quality spill happens let me explain. They all have their own version or name for their quality system but essentially its all the same. Its evolved and been called 5 phase, 8D's, CR reports, and so on. they all have an acronym but when something is detected in the plant or from a dealership the process is basically the same. 1) Identify the issue 2) contain the spill. 3) determine the root cause. 4) fix the root cause of the problem. 5) verify the fix works. 6) document for lessons learned update control plans. So all suppliers are held to these standards. The fact that GM is recalling 4500 vehicles tells me the supplier can contain the failure to that lot of parts. It may have only happened on 3 vehicles but if the supplier cannot be sure they will recall all of them. So as much as people's perception of GM hasnt changed the quailty has and I would say they are on par with any other car maker. Technically since they sell more cars than any other maker in the US they should statistically have more recalls. Not sure that is the case.

THAT is an excellent post on the subject. I took continuous process improvement as a major in school, and that all holds true with what I was taught.

I would say the domestics next area of improvement is in designing for quality. I can build something that is of the highest quality, but if I'm building it to a spec that doesn't match that of competitors, then its still an inferior product.

That's where we still have the perception of when you sit in a domestic car, it feels "cheap". Why? Because they are using lesser quality plastics and materials. It may be "built" well, but it isn't designed well. That's why when the domestics all rave about how they are tops on the Initial Build Quality Surveys, that's great...but your car can still be **** .

It's also very true regarding the previous 100 years affecting perceptions today. Chevrolets in the 30's were crap compared to the Ford's. It's ok, because 75 years later, I think we can forgive them. I think it was GM that a few years ago actually made an ad campaign of apologizing for the quality issues of the 90's. It still didn't work. People think domestic=crap, and japanese or German=quality.

Myself? I don't feel like paying an extra 5-10,000 for an import(rough guess) so I'll take inferior on a product that depreciates and eventually is tossed. I don't buy new, so after 5 years, that domestic has depreciated to the point where you can buy a almost brand new domestic for half the equivalent import.