Now all we need are room temperature superconductor high voltage lines to carry the power to where people actually live and use power. Better get out to your workbench and get inventing, ryan!

OK, so what happens when we realize that the solar panels are so large that they actually cause dramatic, and bad changes in the climate of the area they are put in, and perhaps other areas as well.

Brad

Edit to add: Not that I'm not all for this, perhaps supplement with nuclear energy.

[This message has been edited by twofatguys (edited 12-01-2011).]

quote Originally posted by twofatguys: OK, so what happens when we realize that the solar panels are so large that they actually cause dramatic, and bad changes in the climate of the area they are put in, and perhaps other areas as well. Brad Edit to add: Not that I'm not all for this, perhaps supplement with nuclear energy.

like... asphalt?

I like this one better.

ya right lol try finding the bad solar panel on that many acres....like a burnt out light on a x mas tree that would SUCK!

I like this one better

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: like... asphalt?

No, worse, 308 700+ square miles worse. We are not discussing doing away with an equal amount of buildings and roads to do this. We are talking about ADDING this to the system.

New York metro area covers the most area in the world, and it is 11,112 square miles. We are talking about 308,700 square miles, it looks all neat and tidy on a map, but think about the destruction it would take to make that work.

It would take 10 hours (give or take) to drive across this area, and that's the short way in a world where everything is flat. 10 hours.

Right now it's not feasible to build anything this size. It would be nice, just not realistic. Perhaps in a few years when we finally get solar panels built like trees as people are demonstrating now.

Brad

quote Originally posted by twofatguys: No, worse, 308 700+ square miles worse. We are not discussing doing away with an equal amount of buildings and roads to do this. We are talking about ADDING this to the system. New York metro area covers the most area in the world, and it is 11,112 square miles. We are talking about 308,700 square miles, it looks all neat and tidy on a map, but think about the destruction it would take to make that work. It would take 10 hours (give or take) to drive across this area, and that's the short way in a world where everything is flat. 10 hours. Right now it's not feasible to build anything this size. It would be nice, just not realistic. Perhaps in a few years when we finally get solar panels built like trees as people are demonstrating now. Brad

Look at the small rectangle as an indication of how much energy there is available, not as the size of a potential power plant. That total area would be made up of small scale systems including PV panels and thermal collectors on rooftops all across the country. When that giant rectangle is broken up into pieces the size of rooftops and scattered all over the country it is very feasible. A lot of people might be surprised at the amount of energy demand that can be offset with the addition of 1-2 simple thermal collectors to the roof.

quote Originally posted by mikejhjr: When that giant rectangle is broken up into pieces the size of rooftops and scattered all over the country it is very feasible. A lot of people might be surprised at the amount of energy demand that can be offset with the addition of 1-2 simple thermal collectors to the roof.

Exactly. The illustration is just a visualization tool. The panels need not (and could not) be grouped together like in the illustration.

quote Originally posted by OKflyboy: Exactly. The illustration is just a visualization tool. The panels need not (and could not) be grouped together like in the illustration.

Yup.

I wonder if this is really true. You would think that people in the southwest would be putting them on their buildings.

quote Originally posted by mikejhjr: Look at the small rectangle as an indication of how much energy there is available, not as the size of a potential power plant. That total area would be made up of small scale systems including PV panels and thermal collectors on rooftops all across the country. When that giant rectangle is broken up into pieces the size of rooftops and scattered all over the country it is very feasible. A lot of people might be surprised at the amount of energy demand that can be offset with the addition of 1-2 simple thermal collectors to the roof.

That's a little more feasable, but still "pie in the sky" dreaming. I'm betting that if someone was able to get the area of all the rooftops in the United States, and took away the ones that never see sunlight (like half of ours), that you would end up with far less area than you need. Perhaps 75% could be obtained this way, but there is this Nature thing we still can't change. Cloudy days, rain, just terrible location in general would make our current solar system less than perfect. (Imagine getting enough sun in Washington State for example.)

We don't all live in areas of great sunshine, heck, I'm in Missouri and I think we have more cloudy days than sunny.

Like I said earlier, perhaps having a few Nuclear Power plants across the country to "supplement" a solar system.

Brad

But 2000 acres to drill in ANWR is too much impact to the environment.
That's 3.12 square miles. *THREE*

Good luck with setting aside some 100,000,000 acres of land when you can't even get agreement for 2000.

[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 12-02-2011).]

I sat in on a solar powered water purifier being developed for use in the Great Lakes, as well as a solar charger for electronics. Neither really took off beyond the initial few prototypes. I honestly don't feel solar power is practical on such a large scale at the moment. It appears to be best put to use supplimenting smaller scale alternative energy projects undertaken by individuals or companies. No one alternative energy source is the holy grail of green/renewable energy.

quote Originally posted by Xuin39: I sat in on a solar powered water purifier being developed for use in the Great Lakes, as well as a solar charger for electronics. Neither really took off beyond the initial few prototypes. I honestly don't feel solar power is practical on such a large scale at the moment. It appears to be best put to use supplimenting smaller scale alternative energy projects undertaken by individuals or companies. No one alternative energy source is the holy grail of green/renewable energy.

How long ago was that? One of the basic factors in determining the practicality of anything is comparing price to what you get. Solar panel prices have been plummeting for the last couple of years, with prices as low as 50c/Watt in volume. For instance:

http://www.sunelec.com/

I've been keeping an eye on this for a while, when my finances improve I'm pulling the trigger on a full system and telling my electric provider to get their ***** meter off my property.

Renewable energy is All solar. Wind, hydro,biofuel, it's all solar. Our very existence is solar. If the sun goes out or even dims a little we're all gone. When we perfect all of the solar technologies we will actually have a future. All other forms of energy are just drawing down on a limited bank account and we will deplete those energy accounts. It's only a matter of time.

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: How long ago was that? One of the basic factors in determining the practicality of anything is comparing price to what you get. Solar panel prices have been plummeting for the last couple of years, with prices as low as 50c/Watt in volume. For instance: http://www.sunelec.com/ I've been keeping an eye on this for a while, when my finances improve I'm pulling the trigger on a full system and telling my electric provider to get their ***** meter off my property.

It was some years back, and I was/am aware that the cost is steadily falling. That factor is why I feel solar power is ideal on a smaller scale, for instance employed in a "full system" such as the one you have.

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: This post edited for length, not content! http://www.sunelec.com/ I've been keeping an eye on this for a while, when my finances improve I'm pulling the trigger on a full system and telling my electric provider to get their ***** meter off my property.

I wonder what it would take money wise to power my storefront building, and open a "solar" store. Lets say I need enough power to light a bank of florescent lights in a 1400 square foot room 24 hours a day, then a few computers, one 24 hours a day, a microwave a few times a day, and some form of heat/blower and air conditioning, perhaps a stove for display purposes, or some other appliances including a washing machine.

Would such a system even fit on the roof with current technology? Would it be affordable?

Brad

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: How long ago was that? One of the basic factors in determining the practicality of anything is comparing price to what you get. Solar panel prices have been plummeting for the last couple of years, with prices as low as 50c/Watt in volume. For instance: http://www.sunelec.com/ I've been keeping an eye on this for a while, when my finances improve I'm pulling the trigger on a full system and telling my electric provider to get their ***** meter off my property.

50c/Watt is an awesome price. It was a big deal when thin film CdTe panels dropped below $1/Watt.

Just curious, why wouldn't you stay grid tied and back feed?

Power co came through and trimmed my trees back from the lines I didn't have a problem with them doing that, understand that requirement. However, they didn't follow their own guidelines and butchered over two dozen trees. If they had notified me in advance, as their policy required, then I would have suggested they take out the trees in question without hesitation, and they would have done that happily. However, they didn't, and I'm stuck with paying thousands to have the trees that have died so far and are expected to die as a result of their butcher job take out. When I asked them to take responsibility for their shoddy work they blew me off. I despise them.

They are like a free battery system though. A maintenance free battery. I understand the desire to stand alone, but it will cost you a lot more.