They were going to clean up the area this morning (would not have permitted certain items back in, sleeping bags, coolers, etc) That would have been a mess.)
Instead, the company who owns the park changed their minds...
The scene was quiet by the time I got to work (9am).
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11:00 AM
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Wichita Member
Posts: 20708 From: Wichita, Kansas Registered: Jun 2002
Originally posted by 86GT3.4DOHC: Anybody ever figure out what these people want? Other than... well, what the hell do they want again?
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Originally posted by Wichita: To get paid not to work, have no debt but have a home, cell phone, flat screen tv and netflix without paying for it. Also they would like to pull out the guillotine and see some public executions of CEO's of large corporations.
What I saw in some interviews last night of the protesters in Chicago was exactly the same. Young people who are demanding to be paid with rich people’s money and not taking responsibility for their own lives. One even went so far as to say we need a new form of government where the government takes care of everyone equally.
My understanding is its a private park to boot, would be no diffrent from these hipsters showing up on your front yard and refusing to leave.
Anybody ever figure out what these people want? Other than... well, what the hell do they want again?
This is pretty accurate :
AFAIK, the company who owns the park is allowing them to stay there (not sure WHY, honestly)
I'm totally against violence against peaceful protest, (like the cop who just walked over and pepper sprayed the girls who were just standing therelast week )
But so many of these protesters seem to be doing it out of boredom rather then because they are in bad shape (perhaps they ARE, but they sure don't look it)
Guess the winter will take things apart, or take it to the next level.
What I saw in some interviews last night of the protesters in Chicago was exactly the same. Young people who are demanding to be paid with rich people’s money and not taking responsibility for their own lives. One even went so far as to say we need a new form of government where the government takes care of everyone equally.
There is a word for that. They are having one here in Little Rock, and there is no leadership and they said that's exactly what they want and they are going to march until the federal government changes things. I don't remember who said it but they said, People are impressionable as a group and capable of terrible things and not know why they are doing it, and its very true. you get any mass of people and chances are other people will migrate to it and not even know why they are they they just know its "important"
What I saw in some interviews last night of the protesters in Chicago was exactly the same. Young people who are demanding to be paid with rich people’s money and not taking responsibility for their own lives. One even went so far as to say we need a new form of government where the government takes care of everyone equally.
Back in the early 90's one of my my military instructors told us that the younger kids were going to confuse Democracy with Socialism and other governments that they will expect to be free but totally cared for by the government, sorta like the government were their loving parents would had their best interests at heart...and would provide lifetime allowance He called the 2000''s the decade of "rude awakening"...
In a nutshell - If nothing is hard growing up, then you'll be soft. If there's no losing, then everyone's a (fake) winner.
EVERYONE'S kid was "child of the month" SOMEWHERE. Sheesh.
[This message has been edited by FieroRumor (edited 10-14-2011).]
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11:40 AM
cliffw Member
Posts: 37857 From: Bandera, Texas, USA Registered: Jun 2003
Originally posted by BlackThunderGT: One even went so far as to say we need a new form of government where the government takes care of everyone equally.
We have one. It's called the military.
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11:51 AM
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avengador1 Member
Posts: 35468 From: Orlando, Florida Registered: Oct 2001
What people are forgetting is that we are not a democracy, we are a republic.
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The United States is, indeed, a republic, not a democracy. Accurately defined, a democracy is a form of government in which the people decide policy matters directly--through town hall meetings or by voting on ballot initiatives and referendums. A republic, on the other hand, is a system in which the people choose representatives who, in turn, make policy decisions on their behalf. The Framers of the Constitution were altogether fearful of pure democracy. Everything they read and studied taught them that pure democracies "have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths" (Federalist No. 10).
My understanding is its a private park to boot, would be no different from these hipsters showing up on your front yard and refusing to leave.
<snip>
Pretty much what I was thinking, and certainly represents the overall attitude of these people. First off, they're on private property, and when asked to leave, they protest as if the owner has no right to do so. To make matters worse, they're obviously trashing the place or it wouldn't have been a sanitation risk to begin with. Secondly, when asked to leave, they question the motives of the person who owns the property, as if he OWES them an explanation. How about simply, "it's my property, get your asses off of it!" How's that for a good reason? These people are pathetic, nothing but a bunch of poor "victims" who have no clue what they're even protesting, as if "Wall Street" as a whole, or everyone who works there is somehow a bad guy.
It occurs to me, maybe what we should do is bomb the crap out of every one of the places these idiots are congregating. Can you imagine how the average IQ of the planet would skyrocket?
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12:06 PM
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
I read in one article that it's a privately owned park but is "required to be open to the public 24/7." The article didn't go into detail. Probably some kind of zoning or something.
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12:21 PM
86GT3.4DOHC Member
Posts: 10007 From: Marion Ohio Registered: Apr 2004
I read in one article that it's a privately owned park but is "required to be open to the public 24/7." The article didn't go into detail. Probably some kind of zoning or something.
Hippie : Pssh! You can't own property, man! Professor Farnsworth: I can, but that's because I'm not a penniless hippie!
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12:26 PM
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
Another slick video by the same guy whose had his thoughts posted on here before, neither them have much substance or fact IMO. More generalizing about something he is against.
Using his analysis the people who are the richest would do the best if put in a live off the land scenario. Haha now that's classic BS, I'd love to see some of the CEO's out in the wilderness for "3 and a half days". His thoughts that rich=working hard and poor=lazy isn't true as far as I have seen, sure for some people both may be true but on the whole I don't see it.
As for the disinfranchised people who "wasted their money on garbage degrees" and such, they were sold that promise by who exactly??
Can everyone manage to get a education that results in a great job? If someone picks correctly and has the talent and aptitude to do well in a certain field how does that make that person better than another??? Does it mean they worked harder somehow? Again I am not saying there are not cases of people coasting along but to say that all of these protestors are is BS IMO.
I like how he relates the farmers in the field to the corporations, I wonder what the farm workers would say if asked.
[This message has been edited by newf (edited 10-14-2011).]
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01:41 PM
87antuzzi Member
Posts: 11151 From: Surrounded by corn. Registered: Feb 2009
Can everyone manage to get a education that results in a great job? If someone picks correctly and has the talent and aptitude to do well in a certain field how does that make that person better than another??? Does it mean they worked harder somehow? Again I am not saying there are not cases of people coasting along but to say that all of these protestors are is BS IMO.
True, but I'm more concerned with the fact that they are wrong protesting business. Unless they are talking about ponsie schemes, which is corruption. The government regulations that caused the housing bubble and susequent crash led this recession. The people who willingly "bought" loans for homes they knew they could not afford and teh government initiatives to promote that very thing.
*edit Also want to add it does not make a person better than another. Those are the ideas that pop up to demonize another side, that and "hate". The persons character does determin if they are "better". If they willingly protest that the government is not handing them enough things that is not a good person. If they are just confused about the reason they got in poor finances, they are just confused.
[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 10-14-2011).]
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02:17 PM
Toddster Member
Posts: 20871 From: Roswell, Georgia Registered: May 2001
As for the disinfranchised people who "wasted their money on garbage degrees" and such, they were sold that promise by who exactly??
I have to suggest that the Latin Phrase "Caveat Emptor" would be applicable to those who chose to waste their time and money on degrees that hold no real value. It's called personal responsibility, you (they) made a decision, now live with it or go back and get a degree in something that has some value or, go out and find a job and support yourself. The market drives that train, if they're so smart, they should have seen it coming down the tracks.
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Originally posted by newf:
Can everyone manage to get a education that results in a great job? If someone picks correctly and has the talent and aptitude to do well in a certain field how does that make that person better than another??? Does it mean they worked harder somehow? Again I am not saying there are not cases of people coasting along but to say that all of these protestors are is BS IMO.
Nope, not everyone is capable of attaining the education necessary to get that great job, some of it is luck, some is based on opportunity but, not everyone is going to end up a winner, as was said, when you have winners, the opposite side is full of losers. Some to a greater degree than others. Talent, appitude and hard work will get them ahead in most circumstances, not always but then, no one ever said that life was fair and knew which was was up. Hard work isn't the only key to success but, it's almost always a key ingredient of success. Why are these folks protesting and what are they protesting, don't know, don't care. They want what they have not earned.
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Originally posted by newf:
I like how he relates the farmers in the field to the corporations, I wonder what the farm workers would say if asked.
Try making it as a farmer, enlightenment has it's own rewards. If nothing else, those folks would learn the meaning of hard work and how much those degrees mentioned previously are worth. Be safe. ------------------ Ron "While you cannot control the length of your life, you can control the width and depth." Live life to it's fullest, you may not see tomorrow.
[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 10-14-2011).]
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02:46 PM
css9450 Member
Posts: 5575 From: Glen Ellyn, Illinois, USA Registered: Nov 2002
But so many of these protesters seem to be doing it out of boredom rather then because they are in bad shape (perhaps they ARE, but they sure don't look it)
When winter arrives in true NYC form, the protesters will be screaming that the govt should provide them with all the comforts of home.
I donno, even there if you work harder than the rest around you its still possible to excel and get 'extras'..
This is the first i have heard about it being a private park.. they can get the hell out then. They have NO right to be there if its private and should be arrested for trespassing.
[This message has been edited by User00013170 (edited 10-14-2011).]
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05:14 PM
Cheever3000 Member
Posts: 12400 From: The Man from Tallahassee Registered: Aug 2001
My liberal coworker says he's going to join the group here, if he can find out when & where. He's anti-corporate, anti-oil, anti-anything-that-resembles-conservativism. And, oh yeah, he drives a Prius.
My liberal coworker says he's going to join the group here, if he can find out when & where. He's anti-corporate, anti-oil, anti-anything-that-resembles-conservativism. And, oh yeah, he drives a Prius.
Should mention to him that until he quits his job, grows his own food ( by hand, no power tools ) and walks everywhere... at the least.. hes a hypocrite.
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05:22 PM
Wichita Member
Posts: 20708 From: Wichita, Kansas Registered: Jun 2002
My liberal coworker says he's going to join the group here, if he can find out when & where. He's anti-corporate, anti-oil, anti-anything-that-resembles-conservativism. And, oh yeah, he drives a Prius.
My liberal coworker says he's going to join the group here, if he can find out when & where. He's anti-corporate, anti-oil, anti-anything-that-resembles-conservativism. And, oh yeah, he drives a Prius.
If I was a business owner, or manager and saw one of my workers at one of these protests I would fire them on the spot.
Using his analysis the people who are the richest would do the best if put in a live off the land scenario. Haha now that's classic BS, I'd love to see some of the CEO's out in the wilderness for "3 and a half days". His thoughts that rich=working hard and poor=lazy isn't true as far as I have seen, sure for some people both may be true but on the whole I don't see it.
That wasn't his point. At all.
He was saying that there is a complete lack of perspective; that their hate for corporations is ridiculous because without them we wouldn't have half the easy life we have now.
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Originally posted by newf:
Can everyone manage to get a education that results in a great job? If someone picks correctly and has the talent and aptitude to do well in a certain field how does that make that person better than another??? Does it mean they worked harder somehow? Again I am not saying there are not cases of people coasting along but to say that all of these protestors are is BS IMO.
I like how he relates the farmers in the field to the corporations, I wonder what the farm workers would say if asked.
It doesn't make that person better. But the people that don't have the talent or aptitude for one thing shouldn't complain about those who do. They shouldn't blame those who do.
Originally posted by blackrams: I have to suggest that the Latin Phrase "Caveat Emptor" would be applicable to those who chose to waste their time and money on degrees that hold no real value. It's called personal responsibility, you (they) made a decision, now live with it or go back and get a degree in something that has some value or, go out and find a job and support yourself. The market drives that train, if they're so smart, they should have seen it coming down the tracks. .
Degrees with no real value? How does one evaluate that? Does everyone who doesn't work in the field that they studied become a dummy? Is there jobs for everyone when they graduate in every field?
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Originally posted by blackrams:
no one ever said that life was fair and knew which was was up. Hard work isn't the only key to success but, it's almost always a key ingredient of success. Why are these folks protesting and what are they protesting, don't know, don't care. They want what they have not earned.
So life isn't fair and everyone should just accept that? Everyone seems to be asking what the protestors want without a lot of answers....well besides that they clearly want what they have not earned....really are you sure about that?
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Originally posted by blackrams:
Try making it as a farmer, enlightenment has it's own rewards. If nothing else, those folks would learn the meaning of hard work and how much those degrees mentioned previously are worth. Be safe.
Again why is it assumed that none of these people have known hard work?
Please tell me you see both sides to that statement.
I see the other side, but never before in all of history has it had less impact than today and going forward, it will have even less. Automation, robtics, computerization, and a whole jost of other technologies has made the employee less important, especially considering that "machines" are now building machines more and more.
The current flavor of the year/darling of the Left, Berkshire Hathaway's Warren Buffett, produces no products whatsoever, has very very few actual employees, and brings into Omaha Nebraska, by his own admission, the tidy sum of $1 BILLION USD/month (gross revenue--average of the 1st and 2nd reporting qtrs 2011 anyway)
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06:56 PM
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
Another slick video by the same guy whose had his thoughts posted on here before, neither them have much substance or fact IMO. More generalizing about something he is against.
Of course you don't think it has much substance. You don't agree with it. More discounting something you are against.
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Originally posted by newf: As for the disinfranchised people who "wasted their money on garbage degrees" and such, they were sold that promise by who exactly??
Can everyone manage to get a education that results in a great job? If someone picks correctly and has the talent and aptitude to do well in a certain field how does that make that person better than another??? Does it mean they worked harder somehow? Again I am not saying there are not cases of people coasting along but to say that all of these protestors are is BS IMO.
Asking who sold them on their "garbage" degree suggests you think someone is at fault for the degree not being profitable. There are many degrees that are not in high paying fields. That doesn't make them any less valid, but it also doesn't mean everyone who gets a degree should be guaranteed a job with the same income. If you want to study art, go for it, but you have to accept that an art degree isn't as likely to get you a good paying job as Chemical Engineering or Medical School. As for how hard they work, again that can vary greatly depending on a person's natural aptitude. Someone who's a gifted engineer might have a hard time with a history degree while someone who's a brilliant historian might never be able to comprehend the Second Law of Thermodynamics.
If you spend $50,000 - $100,000 on a degree - any degree - should that guarantee you a job? No. You should consider yourself lucky that you're able to get an education of that caliber without having to pay for it up front. You're choosing to spend money on something for your own reasons. Maybe it's to make a lot of money. Maybe it's because you love a certain subject. The reasons are your own and the responsibility to pay for that education is your own as well.
A college degree doesn't come with a 5 year/$100,000 warranty so you can take it back for a refund if you don't get your dream job when you graduate.
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Originally posted by newf: I like how he relates the farmers in the field to the corporations, I wonder what the farm workers would say if asked.
Most farming is done by corporations now. Smaller farms aren't efficient enough to compete. Yeah, they still exist but even independent farmers likely end up selling their product to one of those corporations. They don't sell everything at your local farmer's market.
Originally posted by Formula88: Of course you don't think it has much substance. You don't agree with it. More discounting something you are against.
I didn't discount it, I watched it. I just didn't agree with the generalizations (as usual).
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Originally posted by Formula88: Asking who sold them on their "garbage" degree suggests you think someone is at fault for the degree not being profitable. There are many degrees that are not in high paying fields. That doesn't make them any less valid, but it also doesn't mean everyone who gets a degree should be guaranteed a job with the same income. If you want to study art, go for it, but you have to accept that an art degree isn't as likely to get you a good paying job as Chemical Engineering or Medical School. As for how hard they work, again that can vary greatly depending on a person's natural aptitude. Someone who's a gifted engineer might have a hard time with a history degree while someone who's a brilliant historian might never be able to comprehend the Second Law of Thermodynamics.
If you spend $50,000 - $100,000 on a degree - any degree - should that guarantee you a job? No. You should consider yourself lucky that you're able to get an education of that caliber without having to pay for it up front. You're choosing to spend money on something for your own reasons. Maybe it's to make a lot of money. Maybe it's because you love a certain subject. The reasons are your own and the responsibility to pay for that education is your own as well.
A college degree doesn't come with a 5 year/$100,000 warranty so you can take it back for a refund if you don't get your dream job when you graduate.
No, I don't think someone specifically is at fault for certain degrees being less profitable at all. The rest of your post is nothing I particularly disagree with.
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Originally posted by Formula88:
Most farming is done by corporations now. Smaller farms aren't efficient enough to compete. Yeah, they still exist but even independent farmers likely end up selling their product to one of those corporations. They don't sell everything at your local farmer's market.
This is partially why I hope that people shift their way of thinking and choose to support smaller businesses. Maybe the "Occupy" protests will help people recognize it.
This is partially why I hope that people shift their way of thinking and choose to support smaller businesses. Maybe the "Occupy" protests will help people recognize it.
I try to support local business whenever I can, but people are going to have to accept that local, smaller businesses usually cost more. With so many concerned with the cheapest price first above all else, you're not going to see much change anytime soon. At best, they'll buy their foreign made corporate goods somewhere other than Wal-Mart.
The irony of all this is even though you disagree, you want at lot of what the TEA Party wants, even if you don't realize it. Smaller, more efficient government. Keeping things more on a local. That was mentioned in one of those "slick" videos you disagree with.
