A 36-page "graphic novel coloring book" created by a St. Louis, Mo., publisher is attracting international attention -- and has reportedly sold out of its first pressing of 10,000 copies -- after Muslim American advocates complained that the book projects an anti-Muslim agenda particularly not suitable for children.
The book, titled "We Shall Never Forget 9/11: The Kids' Book of Freedom" was intended by its publisher, Wayne Bell, to present "a respectful graphic representation of the events from that day," including images covering the span of the last decade since the September 11, 2001 attacks, up to the assassination of Osama bin Laden. Bell's goal with publishing the book, which he admits carries a "PG" rating due to its level of graphic, historical detail.
But Muslim American advocates describe the book as "hateful, inflammatory and completely inappropriate for children or anyone for that matter," as Amina Sharif, a spokeswoman for the Chicago chapter of the Council on American-Islamic Relations told the Chicago Tribune.
Sharif and others contend that the book fails to differentiate between the terrorists responsible for the 9/11 attacks and other, mainstream followers of the Muslim faith. As ABC 7 reports, the book contains the phrase "radical Islamic Muslim extremists" at least 10 times. The publisher writes in the book that, "'they' also will never forget. Yes, they know of whom "they" are. Given the chance, 'they' would do it again" and in another passage, the books reads, "Some Muslim people believe the attacks were a conspiracy caused by Jews."
Text on another page depicting a Navy SEAL aiming a gun at bin Laden, according to Time, reads, "Children, the truth is, these terrorist acts were done by freedom-hating radical Islamic Muslim extremists. These crazy people hate the American way of life because we are FREE and our society is FREE."
"If they are trying to imply subliminally some kind of Christian-Muslim conflict here, I think that that is very dangerous and completely inappropriate," Sharif added to ABC 7.
In response to criticisms from the CAIR and other groups, Bell stands by the book. He told ABC News the book offers an "honest depiction" of the events surrounding the 9/11 tragedy.
"The truth is the truth," Bell told ABC News. "It's unfortunate that they were all Muslim and that's the part people want to erase … I don't know what else you can call them."
If it is requested of him, Bell also added, he said he would publish another similar book offering more positive images of the Muslim-American community. &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
I haven't seen this "children's" coloring book so, I really can't praise or condem but, I would surely like to see it. I really don't have a problem telling it like it is, especially to children. I don't really see a problem (at this point) with it being hateful or inflamatory if it's truthful. My understanding is the folks that attacked us 9/11/01 were "Radical" Muslim Terrorist. Were they not?
No, I'm not trying to start a flame war with anyone but, the truth is the truth and should not be hidden, especially from our kids on something like this. Should we tell them aliens attacked Pearl Harbor? Was Hitler really just mis-understood? ------------------ Ron
[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 09-01-2011).]
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10:53 PM
PFF
System Bot
IMSA GT Member
Posts: 10718 From: California Registered: Aug 2007
Originally posted by blackrams: Was Hitler really just mis-understood?
Yes, yes he was. For years and years until WWII and we learned the truth.
quote
Originally linked by blackrams: ...Muslim American advocates complained that the book projects an anti-Muslim agenda particularly not suitable for children.
I have never heard them decry the indoctrination of Muslim men, women, and children in radical Islamic societies, which give them a bad aura. I also have not seen the coloring book but would like to. I am tired about worrying about being politically correct kissing azz to keep feelings from being hurt.
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11:14 PM
Sep 2nd, 2011
blackrams Member
Posts: 33217 From: Covington, TN, USA Registered: Feb 2003
I guess folks are tired of the subject or afraid to speak their minds or, maybe they just don't care. Not sure. Being politically correct doesn't mean the truth should be hidden from our children. Again, I haven't seen the coloring book but would really like to so I can make my own decision. If it's truthful, then I see nothing wrong with it. I also don't see why moderate "muslims" would not want to emphasize the difference between moderate and radical. But, that's just me.
------------------ Ron
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05:59 PM
Toddster Member
Posts: 20871 From: Roswell, Georgia Registered: May 2001
Looks like this book was meant to cause a stirr (make it more valuable?)
IMO, No one's gonna give their little kid a book like that to color...
The text above reads, 'Children, the truth is, these terrorist acts were done by freedom-hating radical Islamic Muslim extremists. These crazy people hate the American way of life because we are FREE and our society is FREE.'
IMO, it's wrong to expose your little kid to this sorta stuff...
[This message has been edited by FieroRumor (edited 09-02-2011).]
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06:10 PM
blackrams Member
Posts: 33217 From: Covington, TN, USA Registered: Feb 2003
Looks like this book was meant to cause a stirr (make it more valuable?)
IMO, No one's gonna give their little kid a book like that to color...
The text above reads, 'Children, the truth is, these terrorist acts were done by freedom-hating radical Islamic Muslim extremists. These crazy people hate the American way of life because we are FREE and our society is FREE.'
IMO, it's wrong to expose your little kid to this sorta stuff...
Rumor, Thanks for commenting. I agree the language may be strong but, is it incorrect?
------------------ Ron
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06:18 PM
Toddster Member
Posts: 20871 From: Roswell, Georgia Registered: May 2001
IMO, it's wrong to expose your little kid to this sorta stuff...
As a parent, I would not want my kids coloring this book. But having said that, I do not think the guy who came up with it deserves a death sentence and I am sure that is coming soon.
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06:25 PM
Blacktree Member
Posts: 20770 From: Central Florida Registered: Dec 2001
As a parent, I would not want my kids coloring this book. But having said that, I do not think the guy who came up with it deserves a death sentence and I am sure that is coming soon.
I dont see a problem with my child ( if he was still young ) having this book. its no worse than many things designed for kids, and its 'reality'.
Would it be accurate? That's all I'm asking. If it was accurate, it wouldn't matter how I felt.
Yes it would be. Though IMO accurate or not a colouring book for children isn't the most appropriate way to show ones kids some of the most violent acts in recent memory.
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07:02 PM
blackrams Member
Posts: 33217 From: Covington, TN, USA Registered: Feb 2003
Yes it would be. Though IMO accurate or not a colouring book for children isn't the most appropriate way to show ones kids some of the most violent acts in recent memory.
OK, thanks for commenting. Although, I haven't seen evidence of our soldiers shooingt anyone for sport that hasn't been prosecuted. There maybe examples I am not aware of and if you have evidence of this, you should provide it to the proper authorities.
OK, thanks for commenting. Although, I haven't seen evidence of our soldiers shooingt anyone for sport that hasn't been prosecuted. There maybe examples I am not aware of and if you have evidence of this, you should provide it to the proper authorities.
Wow! I don't think there's any need of me bringing to the proper authorities as the soldiers involved have already admitted what they did in a U.S. military court!!!
This week the German magazine Der Spiegel published three pictures that showed American soldiers, including Morlock, posing with the corpse of a young Afghan boy as if it were a hunting trophy.
Some soldiers apparently kept body parts of their victims, including a skull, as souvenirs. In a statement issued in response to the publication of the photos the US army apologised to the families of the dead. "[The photos are] repugnant to us as human beings and contrary to the standards and values of the United States army," the statement said.
[This message has been edited by newf (edited 09-02-2011).]
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07:13 PM
blackrams Member
Posts: 33217 From: Covington, TN, USA Registered: Feb 2003
Wow! I don't think there's any need of me bringing to the proper authorities as the soldiers involved have already admitted what they did in a U.S. military court!!!
US soldier admits killing unarmed Afghans for sport
OK, got anything on any that haven't already been prosecuted? That idiot is already convicted. Edited: But to answer your question No, I don't have a problem with some muslim company producing and selling a coloring book as long as it is accurate and ends with what happened to the killers. ------------------ Ron
[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 09-02-2011).]
Originally posted by blackrams: OK, got anything on any that haven't already been prosecuted? That idiot is already convicted.
I'm sorry? I thought you were asking if it was accurate or not? I'm unsure what difference the prosecution of these idiot(S) has to do with your criteria for a colouring book.
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07:25 PM
blackrams Member
Posts: 33217 From: Covington, TN, USA Registered: Feb 2003
I'm sorry? I thought you were asking if it was accurate or not? I'm unsure what difference the prosecution of these idiot(S) has to do with your criteria for a colouring book.
It's called the truth. It is either true and thus worthy of being repeated or a lie and should be discredited. But, it should not be discredited just because it says something I, you or some group doesn't like. In the coloring book intially discussed in the OP. It's about how "Radical" Muslims brought down the Twin Towers. Based on everything I've read, seen or heard, that's what happened. I see no reason to not tell it like it is or was.
------------------ Ron
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07:32 PM
Firefox Member
Posts: 4307 From: New Berlin, Wisconsin Registered: Feb 2003
........Sharif and others contend that the book fails to differentiate between the terrorists responsible for the 9/11 attacks and other, mainstream followers of the Muslim faith.........
If I remember correctly there were extremely few followers of the Muslim faith that tried to differentiate themselves from the terrorists. If they wouldn't denounce their own redicals how are we supposed to differentiate? The Muslim faith has a very black eye because of 9/11 and I personally take a step back when I find out someone is Muslim. I will never feel secure around anyone that is a Muslim. Trust? Not anymore.
As for a kids coloring book, early indoctrination is common throughout the world. Maybe it's not appropriate but it's real life...
Mark
[This message has been edited by Firefox (edited 09-02-2011).]
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07:53 PM
blackrams Member
Posts: 33217 From: Covington, TN, USA Registered: Feb 2003
If I remember correctly there were extremely few followers of the Muslim faith that tried to differentiate themselves from the terrorists. If they wouldn't denounce their own redicals how are we supposed to differentiate? The Muslim faith has a very black eye because of 9/11 and I personally take a step back when I find out someone is Muslim. I will never feel secure around anyone that is a Muslim. Trust? Not anymore.
Mark
Mark, That issue has been surfaced several times. I can't explain why moderate muslims have not en-mass condemned the "Radicals" and outed them whenever and where ever they exist. I remember my father and most of his brother's discussing their time in Germany during and post WWII, I clearly remember hearing them talk as a child how average everyday Germans would point out the Nazis. They held no animosity toward the average German. Seems like a similar situation to me.
Looks like this book was meant to cause a stirr (make it more valuable?)
IMO, No one's gonna give their little kid a book like that to color...
The text above reads, 'Children, the truth is, these terrorist acts were done by freedom-hating radical Islamic Muslim extremists. These crazy people hate the American way of life because we are FREE and our society is FREE.'
IMO, it's wrong to expose your little kid to this sorta stuff...
screw that I need 5 right now just so I can give them to my children. Life sucks, I wont shroud them from the truth and sugar coat everything like all the bleeding hearts want us to. That's why we have so many issues with death penalties and political correctness. As my grandfather, who was on the boats on d-day and watched as the men in front of him, pissed their pants because they were so scared then mowed down by machine gun fire, called them, Candy ass Bleeding Hearts. That might be a little graphic and harsh but for someone to sit there and say him loosing his hand in WW2 and calling soldiers, Rapists, Murderers and thugs, I think he was entitled to be a little angry at the fact that they have no respect for him or any other Americans who sacrificed a lot for their freedom to say that and call it political correctness.
and even if it does say this, it does not read "it was by Muslims" it reads "freedom-hating radical Islamic Muslim extremists" which is singling out a group of Muslims yes but it is the truth and masking that isn't going to change the fact that it is true. Our children have a right to know what happened, I mean John Wilkes Booth shot President Lincoln in the back of the head at a public play, President Kennedy was shot in public during a parade and we teach our children about that everyday. Why can we not teach them about the Radical Muslims who wanted to kill Americans because we are American? It isn't my fault of the fault of my children if they so choose,(since they are American Muslims then yes they HAVE THAT CHOICE) to be part of that religion. They have to know that there is going to be a lot of stigmata about that religion from now on, and if they are not in agreeance with the racial variety then they should try to distance themselves from it but hiding the fact that it was the extremists that did it only makes them look worse and makes that religion look like they are all extremists. The truth CAN help them.
I dont see a problem with my child ( if he was still young ) having this book. its no worse than many things designed for kids, and its 'reality'.
You are right -there's a LOT of things out there that are deemed suitable for children, its up to the parents to filter things out which they feel! AREN'T...
It may be reality, but that doesn't mean a little kid needs to be exposed to it.
Edit: " mommy why is that man shooting santa?"
[This message has been edited by FieroRumor (edited 09-02-2011).]
Originally posted by blackrams: It's called the truth. It is either true and thus worthy of being repeated or a lie and should be discredited. But, it should not be discredited just because it says something I, you or some group doesn't like. In the coloring book intially discussed in the OP. It's about how "Radical" Muslims brought down the Twin Towers. Based on everything I've read, seen or heard, that's what happened. I see no reason to not tell it like it is or was.
Cool I guess it would be OK to publish a colouring book depicting truths like Christians raping alter boys, homosexual sex, or abortions...etc. Sorry but I think it's OK to try and shield children from certain things until they have developed enough that they are able to understand the dynamics of life better.
As for the need for all Muslims to rise up and come out against radical Muslims, I actually think it would be great but it's my opinion that many have and have been for the most part been ignored. Also I don't see why the average Muslim needs to feel any connection to radical Muslims, for example look at how quickly people "disown" radical Christians(or any group they are a part of) on here, sometimes they don't even comment but are completely silent. I guess it's OK to do so when the generalization is about you personally but not when it's a group you fear or hate?
And.... try and tell me you didn't laugh as well...
Edit: Thanks for not taking anything I said personally, I respect your opinion on the matter, I may not agree with it but still respect it. For the most part I'm just not a big fan of generalizing other groups (not that I haven't done it plenty in my day). I'm also not a big fan of the dispicable excuses for life that carried out the attacks on September 11th, 2001 but I don't think they were a representation of most Muslims.
[This message has been edited by newf (edited 09-02-2011).]
Cool I guess it would be OK to publish a colouring book depicting truths like Christians raping alter boys, homosexual sex, or abortions...etc. Sorry but I think it's OK to try and shield children from certain things until they have developed enough that they are able to understand the dynamics of life better.
lol the Dynamics of Life better, that's rich, I don't even think adults understand the Dynamics of life. And I don't think it would be wrong to show them that there are people in this world that are capable of doing bad things, your examples are to say the least interesting. I don't think they should be explicit with showing these images but I don't think homosexual sex is something that should be looked in the same context as rape. I'm not gay but I support the rights of gays, and I would rather teach my children that it's an ok thing, its not wrong and they shouldn't look at those people any different than they would anyone else. I kind of agree with you on abortion though, not that I don't think that they shouldn't know about it but because I don't think that can be conveyed PG and is very subjective because the fine line it walks of fetus vs baby. that's really a personal choice made by the individual not the masses.
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08:38 PM
Gridlock Member
Posts: 2874 From: New Westminster, BC Canada Registered: Apr 2002
lol the Dynamics of Life better, that's rich, I don't even think adults understand the Dynamics of life. And I don't think it would be wrong to show them that there are people in this world that are capable of doing bad things, your examples are to say the least interesting. I don't think they should be explicit with showing these images but I don't think homosexual sex is something that should be looked in the same context as rape. I'm not gay but I support the rights of gays, and I would rather teach my children that it's an ok thing, its not wrong and they shouldn't look at those people any different than they would anyone else. I kind of agree with you on abortion though, not that I don't think that they shouldn't know about it but because I don't think that can be conveyed PG and is very subjective because the fine line it walks of fetus vs baby. that's really a personal choice made by the individual not the masses.
Fair enough on the Homosexual sex but my point was more to show things that were "true" that might not be for children to see, I could have also said heterosexual sex I suppose (depending on how it's done...kidding ) I didn't mean that homosexuality was in anyway related or equal to anything bad.
And.... try and tell me you didn't laugh as well...
Edit: Thanks for not taking anything I said personally, I respect your opinion on the matter, I may not agree with it but still respect it. For the most part I'm just not a big fan of generalizing other groups (not that I haven't done it plenty in my day). I'm also not a big fan of the dispicable excuses for life that carried out the attacks on September 11th, 2001 but I don't think they were a representation of most Muslims.
I would agree, but the coloring book specifically identifies "radical" muslims. That is something very important to point out.
Let me put it another way, at an early age, I was introduced to the Baptist Church and attended that church for many years. Now, there is a church in Topeka KS that claimed to be Baptist as well. I would have to suggest that those are "Radical" Baptist at the very least although, I don't believe they are Baptist at all. Being raised in the Baptist Church, I can easily condemn Fred Phelps and his church. Extremism at it's best or worst, kind of depends on which side of the line you're on.
------------------ Ron
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08:51 PM
rinselberg Member
Posts: 16118 From: Sunnyvale, CA (USA) Registered: Mar 2010
Originally posted by Gridlock: Um, they don't hate you because you are free. They hate you because you've been up in their **** for 100 years. It has nothing to do with your 'freedom'.
I think that you would find it difficult to convince me that there's any significant reality to your statement.
[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 09-02-2011).]
Originally posted by blackrams: I would agree, but the coloring book specifically identifies "radical" muslims. That is something very important to point out.
That's true and I'm glad that it does specify that.
And, the truth is, those "Radicals" killed around 3,000 people and, our children have the right to know about it.
I never said they didn't, though I'm not sure they need to know all the details at a young age nor do I think that things like "Given the chance, 'they' would do it again" and in another passage, the books reads, "Some Muslim people believe the attacks were a conspiracy caused by Jews." are accurate. I also question the ability of children to distinguish the difference between radical and non-radical in terms of religion. I don't think for a minute that children won't be taught about the events of 9-11 however I do question the teaching of it through a colouring book and the quotes attributed to it.
Like I said I would be equally against a colouring book that protrayed Western Militarys as evil occupiers and murderers of innocent Muslims.
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11:16 PM
MidEngineManiac Member
Posts: 29566 From: Some unacceptable view Registered: Feb 2007
I never said they didn't, though I'm not sure they need to know all the details at a young age nor do I think that things like "Given the chance, 'they' would do it again" and in another passage, the books reads, "Some Muslim people believe the attacks were a conspiracy caused by Jews." are accurate. I also question the ability of children to distinguish the difference between radical and non-radical in terms of religion. I don't think for a minute that children won't be taught about the events of 9-11 however I do question the teaching of it through a colouring book and the quotes attributed to it.
Like I said I would be equally against a colouring book that protrayed Western Militarys as evil occupiers and murderers of innocent Muslims.
I give chidren more credit in understanding than that.
And this comic is tame compared to a lot of the anti nazi/russia/etc content in mainstream kids comics of the 50's. Most of the kids that read them turned out ok