You mean the program where the BATF sold guns to Mexican drug cartels that used those guns to murder U.S. Border Patrol agents? That Operation Fast & Furious? Previously known as Operation Gunwalker.
Don't forget the one where we sold drugs in one country to raise money to buy arms to sell to another country's terrorists off the books so that we could get around the Bolen Amendment, a law that was in place to prevent that very thing from happening. Iran-Contra was the name of that one. Brilliant!
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01:56 PM
partfiero Member
Posts: 6923 From: Tucson, Arizona Registered: Jan 2002
Don't forget the one where we sold drugs in one country to raise money to buy arms to sell to another country's terrorists off the books so that we could get around the Bolen Amendment, a law that was in place to prevent that very thing from happening. Iran-Contra was the name of that one. Brilliant!
Our federal government can't really do much of anything correct, but they do know how to grow. Just wait till health care kicks in! Hope I live long enough to see The Keystone Docs in action. Well on second thought, probably would rather die while the getten is good.
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04:07 PM
Pyrthian Member
Posts: 29569 From: Detroit, MI Registered: Jul 2002
Originally posted by partfiero: Our federal government can't really do much of anything correct, but they do know how to grow. Just wait till health care kicks in! Hope I live long enough to see The Keystone Docs in action. Well on second thought, probably would rather die while the getten is good.
and, when does "health care" kick in? and, how will it be in any way different?
Didn't watch the video--but we trained a lot of their cops so they could handle the drug problem in Mexico, taking away some of the heat in America. Unfortunately, many of the cops were corrupt, and first were just bought out. Then a few years back, those same cops who were trained by our cops decided to start their own gang. Now there are two powerful gangs in Mexico that frequent the U.S. side... and one of them is trained by us.
Yeah, you can say "not smart" again...
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04:23 PM
84fiero123 Member
Posts: 29950 From: farmington, maine usa Registered: Oct 2004
Are these the same guns The Brady Bunch and the anti-gun folks were using as evidence that "loose" gun sale laws here were resulting in violence/deaths/etc. in Mexico?
and, when does "health care" kick in? and, how will it be in any way different?
I have to agree. The much villainized "Obamacare" didn't actually pass. They gutted the parts that would have helped the most, then let it pass, now they can criticize it for not doing what it was supposed to in the first place.
Eric Holder & Obama devise this plan Holder is warning people not to talk OR ELSE,keep your mouth shut this is slow to judge because ir is 100% democrat & they control the federal judicial system many in goverment are democrat ,its thier nature to be slime(read noah ark here) Some of the border agents are MAD many are not democrat ,but the higher ups are protecting Holder HOLDER IS COMPLETE SLIME ,,THE leading law enforcement official of the USA is a crook,a criminal who thinks he is above the law. they fear this will color obama ,,no way he has to many levels of protection.no politician in the history of The USA has the blanket protection the Obamanation has
I never commented on this before because i think they will get a free pass some of the guns were used against american agents
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10:21 PM
MidEngineManiac Member
Posts: 29566 From: Some unacceptable view Registered: Feb 2007
Originally posted by Gridlock: I don't think we entirely thought through that plan.
Thoughts?
Or they *did* think it through, very carefully, and it accomplished most of what it was intended. Except for the higher ups in our government to get caught.
NORTH & contras was 1987, they were fighting the communist & the democrats were helping THE COMMUNIST . remember the great President Bush is gone,Yep sad to say, the democrats have pooped guano in the nest 1000 times since 1987..now the liar slithering Obamanation is in power ,groveling to people who hate YOU. 50 democrat criminals have left the House of represenatives or been reprimanded .. ..Of course some republicans have left for Morals reason & republican Duke Cunningham for acting like a greedy democrat crook I was wrong on this ,,The big Media like CBS NBC,ABC new york times gave Obama/Holder A free pass on this .Looks like it might bite Obama yet ..This is such a crapazoid democrat arrogant boonedoggle, HOLDER may have to do the perp walk .this is direct Criminal activity..he should have already resign ,arrogant elitism here ..I see Obama name has been scrubbed from internet, now that some real action is happening now . I know all the marxist democrats will deny this,BUT PEOPLE have been killed, ATF sold 100s of guns to known felons ,a federal agent was killed by one of these guns,WHAT WERE THEY THINKING ??
Oliver North is a decorated hero, every man who served under him would storm the gates of hell with him,A MAN TO ADMIRE .Most officers can not get a man to spit on them,NORTH is not perfect, but just compare him to a slimey sleeze ball like Obama & or A G Holder I would fight with col. North any time most marxist here would say they would walk with Obama, but would cringe if in reality they had to walk beside such a slithering liar
[This message has been edited by uhlanstan (edited 07-27-2011).]
OUR GOVERMENT IS OnE OF THE MOST HONEST IN THE WORLD Most graft & corruption & bribes come from the democrat side its 10 to 1,, republicans get rid of trash ,, the democrats protect crimnals like barney frank Or the democrat head of the tax committee who cheated on his taxes because he did not understand taxes he is still on the committee. what was his name?? a crook among crooks who put the $90,000 in the freezer?? what party ?? the list is verrrry long
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11:46 PM
Jul 28th, 2011
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
Are these the same guns The Brady Bunch and the anti-gun folks were using as evidence that "loose" gun sale laws here were resulting in violence/deaths/etc. in Mexico?
~ Derek
These would be the guns ObamaCo says are the "90% of weapons" used by Mexican cartels that come from the U.S. Of course to prove their point, they needed to get some into the hands of the cartels, first. Hope and Change!!
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12:21 AM
dennis_6 Member
Posts: 7196 From: between here and there Registered: Aug 2001
These would be the guns ObamaCo says are the "90% of weapons" used by Mexican cartels that come from the U.S. Of course to prove their point, they needed to get some into the hands of the cartels, first. Hope and Change!!
Exactly what I have been hearing, it was an excuse to enact more gun control laws, when they could prove the cartels had us firearms. Of course they were going to omit the fact they sold them to the cartels.
As for the 90% of traceable guns, traceable is the key word. Only 30-40% of the guns are traceable, as most of them come from third world nations and lack traceable serial numbers. All gun control needs to end.
[This message has been edited by dennis_6 (edited 07-28-2011).]
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07:56 AM
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
Originally posted by dennis_6: As for the 90% of traceable guns, traceable is the key word. Only 30-40% of the guns are traceable, as most of them come from third world nations and lack traceable serial numbers.
Correct. Anyone with any sense knows they're using military grade fully automatic weapons for the most part and those aren't going to be traceable at all. But the administration is careful to use the 90% statement in such a way to make you think it means 90% of all seized weapons. Like they're really going to pay U.S. prices for semi-auto weapons when they can get military issue fully-auto weapons by the boatload from overseas. In Iraq, a family may not be able to afford shoes, but they'll have an AK47 (that would be the fully automatic military version, not the semi-auto civilian version you see in the U.S.).
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08:51 AM
dennis_6 Member
Posts: 7196 From: between here and there Registered: Aug 2001
Correct. Anyone with any sense knows they're using military grade fully automatic weapons for the most part and those aren't going to be traceable at all. But the administration is careful to use the 90% statement in such a way to make you think it means 90% of all seized weapons. Like they're really going to pay U.S. prices for semi-auto weapons when they can get military issue fully-auto weapons by the boatload from overseas. In Iraq, a family may not be able to afford shoes, but they'll have an AK47 (that would be the fully automatic military version, not the semi-auto civilian version you see in the U.S.).
You know the funny thing about that is, everyone has full auto guns, and the only real fighting is between insurgents and the US or groups that side with the USA. None of the we all will get mowed in a subway on a daily basis because of the evil full auto guns. Grandma in Iraq may very well be carrying a full auto AK, its amazing how we liberate people who have rights greater than we do.
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08:58 AM
PFF
System Bot
olejoedad Member
Posts: 18208 From: Clarendon Twp., MI Registered: May 2004
Visit the NRA website for better info on this travest.
I've been following this for quite some time - if there is indeed justice in the world, this should bring the current administration to it's well-deserved end.
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09:34 AM
dennis_6 Member
Posts: 7196 From: between here and there Registered: Aug 2001
Am I the only one who recalls Col. North and the Contras ?????
Nope, and I bought the Iran Contra report by Walsh when it came out. Only a few thousand copies were printed, the conservatives were hoping that it would fade away and it did to some extent. After having read through all of that multi-volume report complete with partly redacted copies of original documents and other affidavits I arrived at the same conclusion Walsh did: Bush Sr. committed treason, and the only reason he isn't spending the rest of his life in a federal penitentiary is that he got elected (just in time, too!) and the very first thing he did when he took office was to pardon all his co-conspirators who were rolling on him to save their own hides. With them pardoned and as such no longer prosecutable for their part in his treason, the case against him collapsed.
Whatever corruption you think comes out of Illinois and Louisiana is a mere shadow to the corruption that is the Bush family and their cronies.
99.999 percent of the people here who downplay the Iran-Contra affair do it out of pure ignorance because they only repeat what they're told to think by their radio talk show idols, and have no idea what was in that report (which thanks to the redactions was only a part of what Walsh knew, but it's still easy to read between the blacked-out lines) and how it so clearly condemns Bush et. al. for what they were, and are today.
Treasoners.
I read it, saw it with my own two eyes. I speak with the authority that that act gives me, nobody else here can do that.
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06:53 PM
Doug85GT Member
Posts: 9485 From: Sacramento CA USA Registered: May 2003
This could end up being Obama's Watergate. He denied all involvement but his signature was found on a $10 million approval for this operation. He is also telling everyone under him not to talk to Congress about it.
You guys... you are not allowed to talk about this story. Focus on the debt ceiling thingy.... watch this hand... watch this hand, dont worry about the other hand... watch this hand....
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08:40 PM
MidEngineManiac Member
Posts: 29566 From: Some unacceptable view Registered: Feb 2007
You guys... you are not allowed to talk about this story. Focus on the debt ceiling thingy.... watch this hand... watch this hand, dont worry about the other hand... watch this hand....
Yeh, well,.... I never was much good at looking where I am told......
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08:53 PM
Gridlock Member
Posts: 2874 From: New Westminster, BC Canada Registered: Apr 2002
Respect the sovereignty of others borders as you would have them respect yours.
Got to stop messing around in other peoples backyards in the name of American safety.
Well, let's see. In 2001, we had terrorists fly planes into buildings. Now, our people are getting killed on both sides of our southern border. I wonder if your mind would change if Canada was suffering such situations?
[This message has been edited by fierobear (edited 07-30-2011).]
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03:01 AM
texasfiero Member
Posts: 4674 From: Houston, TX USA Registered: Jun 2003
The ironic thing is that the NATO actions in Libya are commanded by a Canadian general....
The Libyan conflict is particularly interesting from a "respecting sovereign borders" perspective since it was a civil war from the beginning. There was no conflict with any state outside of Libyan borders.
