from the mouth of my old Business teacher
"Sorry for typos, it’s 4AM and I’ve probably averaged a couple hours of sleep the last three nights

This is surreal. I week ago I was minding my own business, with no excitement, same old same old. Tonight as I was standing in a crowd of 50,000 people screaming and protesting at the top of my lungs, a hundred feet from a preaching Jessie Jackson in front of the capitol from which 14 democratic senators had just fled over the state border to hide from the police so they didn’t have to vote on a bill erasing 50+ years of labor rights in Wisconsin, I looked at Emily and asked….Is this really happening?

Well it is and here are some of the things I’ve learned this week……

For those of you that know me you know a few things about me. One I’m not really politically active. I vote every election but that is the extent of it. I don’t want to label myself as belonging to a party although I will admit usually I’m going to lean towards the democratic party. So what I’m about to write isn’t some political agenda I’m pushing. Second you know that I’m not very concise with my writing, and I sometimes have been known to exaggerate. Well I can’t do anything about my long windedness, but I can promise not to exaggerate and let you know that I’ve done my fair share of research on what I’m about to say and I hope you read it because this is incredibly important.

To understand this you need to start by knowing we have a newly elected republican governor that has a majority republican legislature and has passed multiple controversial bills in the last two months without a problem, so he is starting to believe he can pass anything. Despite what you may hear in the news this is about one thing and one thing only, workers rights. I’m tired of seeing headlines like “teachers fight for higher salaries.” In a nutshell, last Friday Gov. Walker proposed what he called a Budget Repair Bill to balance our budget. His plan was to get it pushed through the State Senate and Assembly in less than a week to make it law by the following Thursday (yesterday). Then the protests started and continued to grow. Eventually we were 50,000 strong inside and outside of the capitol. And this was on the coldest day, today where wind chills tonight were in the teens. Our numbers and persistence emboldened the democratic senators to flee to Illinois so the Republicans did not have quorum and could not take a vote. It was expected the republicans would vote straight party and pass the bill in both houses. Right now we are in a stale mate as the senators are still MIA and the Governor won’t back down. Here are just a few of the reasons people are so upset.

1) To give you a rundown of the financial aspects of the bill, here is what it asks for. All public employees, which includes teachers, nurses, bus drivers, DNR, correctional officers(prisons), UW college professors and TA’s, sanitation workers, streets dept, and on and on and on would have to contribute at least 5.8% more of their salary to their pensions and cover 12.6% of their health insurance costs. Walker argues these are modest amounts when compared to the private sector. Looking at it as an outsider, to be honest I would probably agree, but you need to look closer. First off, what does this mean to the average worker who makes around $40,000 a year? The net effect would be a decrease somewhere between $5,000-$6,000 a year in take home pay. So for families like mine with two state workers you can double it to up to $12,000. How on Earth do you call this modest? Think about your life and if you could cut $500 or in our case $1,000 a month from your budget. I know people that will literally lose their house. I’ve heard from teachers that would need to go on welfare. Some districts have already seen teachers fill out retirement papers because they are terrified of this passing.

Now teachers and public workers are willing to say sure we will start to chip in, but to it needs to be gradual, you can’t just go from where it is to that overnight. One of the republican senators said and I quote “ when I found out about my pension I got over it in 10 seconds, you are all being melodramatic and need to just get over it because it’s no big deal.” It defies the imagination his lack of compassion and how he just doesn’t get it. The other thing that is important to understand is this. Comparing pubic to private workers is like comparing apples to oranges. If you want to there are two reliable studies down by independent organizations that show public workers are underpaid compared to public sector counterparts with similar jobs. Also the public sector workers on average have more education. But where Walker and others like to focus is on the benefits. Everyone is jealous of the benefits and says public employees are freeloaders. The reality is that for years public employees and unions have taken smaller or non-existent pay increases as a trade off to keep these cushy benefits. It’s really up to the union to decide what they wanted to negotiate for. It is unfair for the unions to be punished because they have bargained and negotiated for these benefits for years. Not to mention these same unions(started in Wisconsin) were responsible for weekends, the 8 hour work day, 40 hour work week, and workers compensation.

What happens with these unions has a direct result on private sector workers as well. I talked to a smart nurse(from the private sector) who gets it. She noted that if this goes through and pay and benefits go down for public sector nurses, her private hospital will be able to offer lower salaries and benefits for their employees because they will still be able to be competitive with the public hospitals and guess what? There will be nothing for these private sector nurses to do about it because they have no union to protect them and no recourse. Bottom line, some professions have developed unions for protection and some haven’t. There seems to be a backlash from some workers who are without union protection maybe because of jealousy, who knows.

This will also have a devastating effect on small business throughout the state as well. Some are finally starting to notice this. I’ve even seen a couple chambers of commerce come out against the bill for that reason. All the businesses around the capitol have expressed concern because a lot of their clientele are public workers from across the street. I have started to try to explain this to some of the business here in Madison that I frequent. If you have public workers losing $6,000 or $500 a month in discretionary income they are going to have to make many cuts. With almost 200,000 public employees this could be crippling to the state. I have already told multiple businesses about this trickle down effect and tried to explain that the same big business Walker is in bed with will eventually be hurt by this. The only counter arguments I’ve heard to this just don’t make sense. Opponents argue that this bill will save the taxpayers money since we all have to pay more in and they will make up for any lack of spending we have. The reality is their taxes aren’t going down from this bill. The money is just being reallocated to other things so they won’t have any more money. Oh yeah and the net effect of absolutely gutting all these teachers and public employees??? $30 million dollars for the state. May sound like a lot, but when you are talking about a state budget it’s pocket change. Clearly the 3% of the state budget that goes to public employees is the problem (in fairness this is another figure I have not confirmed).

2) Unions. Unions, Unions. At least the truth is finally starting to come out that this budget bill has nothing to do with the budget but is all about busting the unions. The fact that Walker has taken all collective bargaining and effectively destroyed all public unions in this bill is why he is really pushing it. Walker should at least have the balls to admit that and not call it something else. Although he made that pretty clear today. The unions came out saying they would make the financial concessions in the bill if he left collective bargaining intact (effectively calling his bluff) and he still was not interested. So if this bill was truly about the budget and he could get the money he was looking for why is he still refusing to sit down and work this out? Answer’s easy, that wouldn’t accomplish his goal to dismantle the unions. I won’t get into the theory that this is a much larger push by the Republican party through the entire U.S. to crush the major donors (unions) to Democrats, but look around the country and you can come to your own conclusions.

Under the bill the only thing unions could bargain for is salary, however the highest the raise could be is the consumer price index (inflation) or a voter referendum would be needed. We all know a voter referendum would never pass since the public already always thinks we are lazy and overpaid to begin with. The bill also calls for an annual vote by members on whether to keep the union and dues become optional. With such a miniscule scope of power, Walker knows in a short time the unions will fade away. Why would workers pay hefty dues to sustain a union that can’t get you any benefits? The other problems with losing the teachers union specifically are that teachers would have no say in class size, planning, curriculum, benefits, seniority, etc. Teachers could be fired at any point no reason given. A district could say ok, now are you going to have a class of 50 students and we couldn’t grieve it, or do anything about it. A class with 20 special ed kids and no support? Too bad. Not to mention the state could decide next year that guess what, now you pay for all of your pension and all of health insurance and there would be no way to fight it.

Interestingly the only three unions exempt from Walker’s bill and allowed to still have unions? Police Fire and State Troopers. Why? Depends who you ask. One possible explanation is these are the three unions that endorsed Walker in the election. Also the two Fitzgerald brothers (both republicans, one the majority leader of the senate, one of the assembly….convenient huh?....although they were elected so I’m not accusing them of nepotism). Oh wait, yes I am because their father was just appointed by Walker as the head of the state troopers. Or you can go with what Walker himself said. In the result of strikes from his proposal, he had contingencies including the National Guard to deal with prison workers and other public workers, but he had no contingency if the fire or police went on strike. This tells me a few things. First and foremost, as the Mayor of Madison stated, when you have to put the National Guard on standby for a budget announcement maybe that a sign there is a problem. Second if you think your policy could cause a police strike that is maybe another indication. So instead he exempted them and is sending the message that somehow collective bargaining is important and worth protecting for some employees and not for others. This is part of the reason the U.N., yes that U.N. is currently preparing legal action against the Governor of Wisconsin if this legislation passes.

Fortunately for the labor movement, this backfired and both the police and fire have come out in strong opposition to the bill anyway and have been out there protesting with us. The bill pits capitol police, DNR game wardens, UW police and correctional officers (all included in the bill) against regular police and state troopers (not included). This might have been intentionally to further split up the unions, but they have unified and come out against it. There is a story and I have my doubts if I believe it but it says that there were a bunch of protestors staging a sit in at one of the republican leader’s house. They were sitting in his driveway so he couldn’t get to the capitol. He called the police and when they got there they joined the protestors. Again I have serious doubts if it’s true, but it would be great if it was. Regardless, I have had conversations with some police and heard of others who have said they’ve got our back.

The firefighters possibly fearing they might be a target down the road or just for solidarity have been incredible. They have been out there in large numbers all week. They continue to lead parades through the capitol with bagpipes and in full dress and are inspiring. The first day I was literally almost in tears as the president of the firefighters union came up to speak and said even though they weren’t in the bill, they were with us. He said that firefighters are the first responders when there is an emergency and this is an emergency. He continued “when a house is on fire we are the first ones to charge in and our house is on fire so we’d like to lead you into the capitol.” They then lead us into the capitol for the first of many times. Today Emily and I accidentally ended up eating lunch with over 100 firefighters. We first tried to go into the Old Fashioned and there were 3 cops blocking the front door because apparently Jessie Jackson was in there eating our cheese curds. So we went to another place and were seated in an area that was inundated five minutes later with all the firefighters. The bar then brought out 10-15 cases of free beer for the firefighters. We spent our lunch talking to them and I was thanking them all and they kept saying “no, thank you guys for fighting this cause for all of us.” This was definitely a highlight and firefighters are true heroes in my book.

Ok back to the union part of the bill. Here’s Walkers other argument. Unions make negotiations too difficult and we are broke and in crisis and it would take way too long to negotiate with the unions to get contracts. He says with so many different unions it’s not feasible to have them all bargain and it could never work. I find this very hard to believe since it has successfully worked in Wisconsin this way for over 50 years. Walker would have you believe (and terrifyingly many people agree with him) that the unions and public employees and their cushy benefits are responsible for the budget being where it is. This is despite the fact that Wisconsin has had much bigger budget problems in the past and made it through just fine. If you still had doubts, how come the city councils (who negotiate with state employees) and school districts and school boards of ed(at the local and state level) have almost unanimously come out against this bill, stating that they believe collective bargaining works. I state “almost unanimously” not because anyone of them have come out for the bill just because I can’t state with certainty that every single one has because I don’t think they have all made their views public. But all the big ones have. Although I’m sure Walker is right, it is apparently so hard to negotiate that the city of Madison called an emergency session of the city council last night and in one night successfully negotiated extensions for all 12 of the city’s unions into 2012, in the hopes of protecting them from this bill (hope you caught the sarcasm there).

One of the scariest parts of this bill is that Walker and the Republicans have tried to use scare tactics to convince Wisconsinites this is necessary. Beyond the fictitious budget crisis, which I will mention below, they have stated there will be over 1,000 layoffs if this proposal does not pass. The promise, however, that if all these financial concessions are made, those layoffs can be avoided. Here is the truth. Layoffs are coming no matter what. Leaks of Walker’s actual budget he plans to unveil next week state he is going to cut educational funding by at least 900 million. The Wisconsin Education Association Council has already stated this will have a devastating effect on education. When districts have to cut that much money, how do they do it? They lay off teachers or cut programs. Once the Repair Bill gets through, Walker will be able to make this announcement and the unions won’t have any power to protect teachers against any layoffs. The Janesville District has already stated they may lose as many as 85 teachers.

How about the bus drivers? They currently receive $45 million in federal aid. This aid is contingent on their members having collective bargaining rights. If the bill passes they will lose this aid and have to make cuts of their own. How about the university? Walker is also expected to announce next week that he will spin off UW Madison from the other UW system schools. As a result of this and budget cuts under the Governor’s plan the university has stated that they may have to raise tuition 26% over the next two years. All the UW universities and secondary schools are also terrified of so called brain drain. With dramatic cuts to benefits and net pay, it will be much harder for schools to recruit and retain highly qualified teachers. For some this has already started to happen. There is already a constant feeling that our education system is screwed up and our kids are not doing as well and it needs to be fixed. I guess Walker or others could use that argument for their cause. I don’t see, however, how it will get any better if you have smaller compensation packages. This will not attract better teachers who can help reverse the problem. I’m not saying there aren’t problems with education and the pay system, but this is not the solution. Apparently Walker has consistently come out with initiatives that hurt education(possibly due to the fact that he dropped out of college and never graduated). Some of my favorite protest signs played off of that with “100% of Wisconsin educators have more education than Scott Walker” – factually true, as is “Scott Walker is not qualified to be a substitute teacher.”

3) We are not in a financial crisis so this bill is unnecessary. Originally the state fiscal bureau said the state was on pace for a $121 million surplus this year (this is a fact, not disputed by republicans). To be fair and balanced I have read that there are some large bills the state owes that are not included in this number and would put the state slightly in the red. Another fact is that Walker and the legislature recently passed over $100 million in tax cuts to businesses. Walker argues that this was necessary to bring companies into the state and create jobs. The problem is it creates a deficit that he now claims is a crisis that can only be helped by these cuts to union workers. Another fact is that 2/3rds of corporations in Wisconsin end up owing no corporate income taxes because of loop holes and tax cuts allowed by Wisconsin laws. Also the revenue generated by corporate income tax in the state has been cut in half since 1981. Do you really believe that companies in Wisconsin are making half as much money now as they were in 1981? Again those two statistics are facts I got directly from the State fiscal bureau and not some liberal agenda.

One statistic that I have not been able to independently confirm but I believe to be true because I’ve seen it mentioned in newspaper articles is that corporations still owe over $1 billion dollars In uncollected corporate income taxes that Walker is not attempting to collect. Any way you look at it, it is clear Walker is more interested in getting money from middle class workers than from large corporations. I have also read articles in the Wall Street Journal, Forbes Magazine and the Washington Post all reiterating that Wisconsin is not in a budget crisis in any way shape or form. I would call these reliable sources.

4) The bill includes significant cuts to Badger Care and gives the Governor control over who is eligible. To be completely honest this is not a part of the bill I’m familiar with but the nurses and those who care for the less fortunate are very upset about this. Another provision gives the governor full authority to fire multiple different types of state employees and replace them with his appointees. He argues this will allow him to run government more smoothly. I can see this both ways, I agree with his argument, but if he fills the government with a bunch of “yes” men that only do his bidding, that worries me.

The most disappointing thing in all of this for me is the realization that you simply can’t trust politicians or the media. I think I probably knew this already but now I have lived it and seen how ridiculously both will spin information and outright lie to make their point. There is no accountability and any exaggeration I’ve ever done would absolutely pale in comparison to what I’ve seen. Now on this issue I happen to believe the democrats and the liberal media are without question on the right side, but that does not give them a free pass. They can be just as guilty. I used to love watching MSNBC. To be honest Fox is a joke. Glen Beck is a complete caricature and I truly believe he is one of the most dangerous people in America because people actually believe his hateful nonsense. He makes me so angry I don’t even want to get into it.

But everyone knows Fox is a republican spin machine and of course they are going to cater to their audience. I thought MSNBC was better. I know they are liberal, but I thought they were more about reporting the news. Ed Schultz who I feel bad criticizing because he has taken up our cause and is really the one responsible for the National attention, isn’t much better than the Fox anchors. He acts more like he is running for office rather than reporting the news. In general though, there have been so many inaccuracies in what I have seen reported it’s insane. When you are an observer you usually just trust the news, but when you are right in the middle of it and know the facts, it is infuriating to see reports that are inaccurate.

For one thing, Fox is spewing that Madison is verging on riots, and there are thugs, etc. This couldn’t be further from the truth. It is teachers, nurses, fire fighters, cops, families. One fox reporter said people who brought their kids are irresponsible. I have been to plenty of sporting events that were a lot less kid friendly than this. The kids are learning and seeing democracy in action and everyone has been extremely peaceful which the police have thanked us for. Today I read the memo that went out to tea partiers encouraging them to come tomorrow. It stated that we were bringing in bus loads of out of staters to inflate our numbers. This couldn’t be further from the truth. These are the actual people who are being affected by this bill and those who support them, and they are from Wisconsin. I have so far only encountered two out of staters, one guy from Illinois with a clever sign “Illinois middle class supports this pack” and I ate dinner with one grandma from Minnesota who goes wherever protests are. I just hope it stays non violent as we continue. Now that it is a national issue, more agitators will come in on both sides from out of state. I fear Jessie Jackson was the start of this (not that he’s an agitator….well…).

The governor has also supplied countless lies or half truths. Every press conference he comes out with a statistic about how many emails or calls he’s received in favor of the bill, but not once has he mentioned how many he’s gotten against it. I also personally think the reports of the numbers of protestors have been low. Even on the low end, however, they estimated 40,000 for today. The focus has been on Madison and people are coming down from all over the state, but there have also been many other protests and walkouts throughout the state. Plus people forget to take into consideration how many people are actually inside the capitol. At one point, every hallway, and every corridor for 4 floors was packed so tight that workers could not get in and out of meeting rooms and the building went on lockdown. That was at the height but even at the lowest point the capitol is packed solidly like you see in the images all day long. There are drummers who stay in the middle of the rotunda leading the cheers non-stop. There has been a presence in the building without a break from last Tuesday morning, including as I type now at almost 3 AM Friday night, well I guess Saturday morning.

On Tuesday they started the only day of public testimony. It started at 10AM and each speaker was allowed 2 minutes. The Joint Finance Committee had stated the session would last until all speakers who wanted to got a chance to talk. Well guess what, it is still going on at this hour, four days later. Nobody has spoke out for the bill since 1:00 on that first day. At 3AM on that first day, despite their own rules that it would keep going, the republicans said the session was over and walked out(I guess after hearing 14 hour straight of all pro union supporters they got tired of it). The democratic members said they would stay to honor the promise everyone could be heard and have been there (on a rotating basis, and now only with the assembly members since the senators are hiding in Illinois) ever since. This has also been done to keep the capitol open to the public over night. Without a meeting the capitol would have to close at a certain hour and protestors would have to clear out. By the democrats keeping this meeting going, the capitol hasn’t closed since Tuesday and protestors have been sleeping in the rotunda, which has been transformed by signs and an energy that is impossible to describe on paper. You have to be in there to understand it.

In conclusion, this has been hell. This has been absolutely inspiring at times and devastating at others. It has been an absolute roller coaster. I’m tired, I’m hungry, I’m mentally drained. I have a lot of trouble sleeping which is why I’m still typing this at 3AM. I’ve been getting down there around 8AM and staying until around 10 PM most nights. Then I come home and read articles and posts on the numerous facebook pages dedicated to the topic until like 2 or 3 AM, then get a couple hours of sleep and start again. Within each day I go from points of exhilarating highs to lows where I feel like it’s time to completely give up. The first few days I had trouble eating. I had no appetite at all and when I tried to eat I felt nauseous. The stress we went through the last three days of “should I call in sick” “am I going to get fired if I do. “ Everyone told us different stories. We were originally threatened by principals and districts but were being pressured by the union to call out. Once the decision was made, the last two days I’ve felt like the movie Valkyrie with Tom Cruise where he is waiting to see if they won control of different districts in Berlin(for me it was checking school closings to see who was joining us).

I know we are not fighting for the civil rights movement or for freedom like in Egypt(don’t get me started on how much I hate that comparison and any signs that mention it, although I did see footage today from Egypt with a guy carrying a sign “Egyptians support Wisconsin Workers”), but at the same time I feel this is incredibly important. The rights we are fighting for (and that I admittedly always took for granted and never much cared about before) were fought for many years ago in this very state and Walker has the arrogance to think he can erase them in less than a week. Martin Luther King Jr. was shot while giving a speech fighting for union rights. Jessie Jackson said tonight that this was a Martin Luther King Jr. moment, which I think might be a little over dramatic as was Rachel Maddow when she said the 14 hiding democrats were carrying the future of the democratic party on their shoulders, but it IS Important. This is not some group of greedy teachers fighting for more pay. I was almost involved in a strike in Schaumburg that did fit that mold, but this is different, much different. This is a large group of workers of all kinds, from all walks of life that are fighting for something they truly believe in. The resolve I’ve seen has been incredible. And as I mentioned earlier these are people that could potentially lose everything, and the Governor and some of his supporters seem clueless to what is going to happen if this bill passes.

Wow, I think I’ve been listening to too many speeches……Ok I’ll get off my soap box, but not before I recognize some of the results I feel we have accomplished. Scott Walker was planning on getting this bill introduced late last Friday and passed the following Thursday. Going into Thursday morning we did not feel much hope. Late Wednesday night I watched the joint finance committee vote straight party lines 12-4 to pass the bill on to the full legislature. The votes were supposed to come in Thursday during the day with it expected to pass. We came out anyway. We came out in larger crowds every single day. And I have to give credit to my district MMSD. We were the first public employees to take any job action. We put ourselves out there and took a risk, luckily others followed and for the first time ever the entire state teacher’s union called for two days of job action. I can’t tell you how unprecedented this is.
I give credit to our school board also which not only sent a letter to the Governor, strongly condemning the bill(as did our superintendent) but also voted yesterday unanimously that no disciplinary action would be taken on any teacher that was back in school by next Monday. Unfortunately some districts were stricter so some schools stayed in session. Milwaukee was a huge boost today though. I also have to give tons of credit to the UW Madison students and the high school kids. The UW students started all of this off last Monday by delivering thousands of Valentine’s Day cards to the governor asking him not to break their hearts. They have been an incredibly large presence every day. Thursday they had a “teach out” where they gathered the whole campus on Bascom Hill, pounding on doors and getting all classes to come outside and then marched down state street with a police escort to the capitol.

The high school kids have also been right on the front lines. On Tuesday before the teacher strike began, almost 1,000 students walked out of my high school, Madison East. They marched 2 miles down E. Washington Ave to the capitol and started protesting. After the walkout, they didn’t go home or take off, they followed through. I read the facebook group page that organized this and they were very informed and aware of what they were doing. And for the critics who said they just would do anything to get out of class, explain why over the last two days, they have continued to show up, over a thousand strong (with other schools now). They don’t have school, they can do whatever they want, and they have been marching to the capitol. Is this incredible show of support and civics lesson for the students portrayed that way in the media? Well not on Fox. Somebody interviewed a couple kids who said “Our teachers brought us here because some guy did something and we didn’t want to be in class.” Glen Beck was happy to show this clip on national media(which is probably illegal because these students were under 18 and I doubt had parental consent) saying we were using the students as “idiot soldiers.” Now the reality is sure there were some kids that went that had no idea, but it was my school and I know the kids that organized it and I talked to the kids that were there and the majority of them were extremely informed. In addition none of this was orchestrated by teachers, it was organized by students through a facebook page and no teachers accompanied them after they walked out. I bet I could find plenty of republicans that would say they are in favor of this bill just because they were republicans and they wouldn’t be able to tell me anything that is in it.

Anyway, I got off on a tangent. Due to the mass mobilization of teachers, all public workers and UW students the 14 democratic senators looked out the window Thursday morning and said they had to choose between doing the usual politics and voting no but losing or going with the people, so they hoped a bus and headed over the border to Illinois. Another highlight was when democratic staffers went to the roof of the capitol and released a banner that said “Run Dems Run.” Once they didn’t show up, and since two republican senators were stuck in their office because there were so many people in the capitol that the police refused to escort them to the senate chamber for safety concerns, the senate had no choice but to adjourn.

They made a house call which sends the police after the missing members and forces them to return, but the state troopers had no jurisdiction in Illinois so the cause lived on for another day. Today the assembly took up the measure and the republicans tried to vote on it without the assembly democrats(not the senators) so no amendments could be proposed. The democratic representatives heard about it and barged in screaming for the vote to stop. The republicans claimed they thought the dems weren’t going to show up and that’s why they started voting, but conceded and decided to adjourn until next Tuesday. So now we have won four more days. The longer we can postpone it the better our chances get of people realizing the truth behind this bill. In addition the Governor of Michigan was considering similar legislation but after seeing what was happening in Madison, said he would not take on unions.

It’s incredible to think that if we didn’t do what we did this thing would be a law right now. The legislators have given us all the credit. The 14 that went awol(which I’m still not sure I think is right, but in this case I’m damn glad they did it, and they didn’t have much choice considering Walker’s tactics) have said they never would have done it but for our show of solidarity. So that is where we currently stand. We need to stay strong and show this will not end until the governor backs down. I hope things don’t get violent tomorrow with the tea partiers supposedly being bused in from all over and I hope the Wisconsin public workers win this battle.

In case I haven’t convinced you, here are some of the people who are against this bill, teachers, professors, TA’s, students at all levels, school boards, school districts, superintendents, city councils, some chambers of commerce, the interfaith coalition as well as local churches and synagogues, the archdiocese, veterans’ groups, police, fire, all state workers including nurses, doctors, DNR, dept. of corrections, the Packers, and by two recent independent polls, the majority of Wisconsinites.

I feel like I should have cited this like a research paper since I have citations to back all of this up, but I didn’t want to waste your time, but if you doubt any of this, let me know and I can try to get you my source."

[This message has been edited by faaaaq (edited 02-19-2011).]

I've read the Milwaukee Journal since I was a kid, now 54. In my opinion from what I have seen thru the years the government workers will manipulate everything possible to make their story sound the best it can sound. Believe nothing you hear and half of what you see.


In case I haven’t convinced you, here are some of the people who are against this bill, the majority of Wisconsinites.


Really? I have yet to talk to a single non government working class person that has this opinion.

Rodney

Doesn't make any difference what this person writes. We cannot sustain the debt levels this country is carrying. Maybe the total economic collapse will finally convince people.

I like how they try to make it look like more people than it really is. keeping the camera low at the reporter so you can't see who is behind her. all college kids and a couple teachers that's who. all who live in Madison. none who care enough to travel and protest. I'm almost with rodney, I've met one person who was against the bill.

In my opinion and I have said this for years. They need to shame these people. Start posting the wages they earn, vacation and sick days, fringe benefits and pension and life time medical coverage they receive. Let the common Joe see. The majority of the common workers in this country (on average) make well less than $20 and hour and their benefits pale in comparison to government workers. Drive down any road in any city and look at the typical businesses on that road. Convenience stores, Target, ma and pa businesses like heat and A/C, Auto repair places, grocery stores etc. That is where the majority of the common working class work in the USA. I talk to government workers and I get things like "lots of people make that much an hour". Sorry. They do not.

Rodney

I am with you on this one Rodney.
As a fellow Wisconsinite, now 58 years old and a lifelong Wisconsin resident, we have had some interesting discussions on the subject at work over the past two days.
Even the most liberal of people that have joined the discussion cannot understand or comprehend why the teachers just do not get it, other than it is now them that are going to take a hit.

The local media has found a few teachers that do understand and stayed at school to teach. They interviewed them a couple days ago, and they do get it.
If the checkbook is empty, you and I cannot keep writing checks to pay for the Cadillac......the government cannot do this, and we are the government.

Where were they when our jobs were being sent overseas and Wisconsin slowly became a manufacturing zero. I did not see them protesting when I lost my job(s).
I have taken a 10% pay cut just to try to keep one company open. I did it gladly so that others would not lose thiers, but in the end it failed.

At the present I make 25% less than I did 10 years ago, pay more for everything, including the taxes that pay them, the teachers, and have lost my home.

So be it. I lived, I adjusted, I moved on.......

Welcome to my world, and I still think this is the greatest country on earth.
Dave

So, any discussion on the missing $1 billion in corporate taxes? I didn't see anything in there about cutting corporate welfare. How about the fact that the police and fire-fighters are exempt? Or the fact that all of those jobs that went to China went there by way of American corporations. How many CEO's lost their jobs? Or more importantly, how many CEO's received mega-bonuses for moving those jobs? Granted, we all need to make sacrifices when needed, but is that what's really happening? No, I don't have the answers, but balancing a budget on the backs of a targeted group(s) is less than comprehensive. OBTW, I have a hard time supporting anything that Jesse Jackson is in favor of.

Apparently there is a rally in support of Walker today around noon. My mom wanted me to go with her and some of our acquaintances but I am working. Not surprising to see this kind of thing from a teacher. Most teachers don't live in the real world. this guy teaches business, but if he was actually capable of running a successful business he would be doing that rather than teaching for a lousy $70,000/yr for a part time job... Oh, wait... **** , I should be a teacher... Damn, they got it all figured out! Plus, they can use the kids as leverage for more pay.. Jeez, these guys are brilliant!!

So, basically, they want other people to pay for something they are unwilling to pay for themselves? They don't mind the expense, as long as it's OP'sM being spent.

You'll notice that the Gov. Walker supporters are having their support rally today, Saturday, because during the week the supporters are WORKING and not able to shut down the companies they work for to go to Madison. These are the same people that pay the wages of the union members that took off of school to protest....

I wonder if the president's right hand is stirring the crap in WI?


Obama, National Democrats Help Mobilize State Budget Protests
Boehner Blasts White House for Spreading 'Disinformation, Confusion' in Wisconsin Budget Battle

But unlike those scenes, some Republican critics are eager to point out, the latest are being fomented by the national political establishment -- including President Obama and the Democratic National Committee -- who have directly interjected themselves into the state-level debates.

Organizing for America, Obama's campaign arm now under the umbrella of the DNC, has been mobilizing union members and supporters to rally against a proposed Wisconsin budget measure that would strip workers of collective bargaining rights and force them to contribute more for benefits.

Leaders have initiated phone banks and on-the-ground canvassing, and relied on a social media blitz on Facebook and Twitter to build turnout.

DNC Chairman Tim Kaine also reportedly spoke with Wisconsin union leaders and state legislators ahead of the protests, the Huffington Post reported, signaling his direct involvement in coordinating the effort.

"Organizing for America is mobilizing on the ground in Wisconsin to defend the rights of public employees from an attempt by the governor [Republican Scott Walker] to take away their right to organize," wrote Mary Hough on the OFA blog.

Tens of thousands of protesters surrounded the state capitol in Madison yesterday, while smaller but equally boisterous crowds held rallies outside statehouses in Ohio and Indiana earlier.

National Democrats have cast the rallies as part of a broader message aired during federal budget debates in Washington this week that deficit reduction measures should not come at the expense of state workers or the poor. But they're also widely seen as an effort by Obama and the DNC to engage with their liberal base.

"We have one thing to say right now: to our allies in the labor movement, to our brothers and sisters in public work, we stand with you, and we stand strong," wrote OFA regional field director Jessie Lidbury on the organization's blog.

But Republicans call Walker's proposal, and those put forth by lawmakers in other states to curb massive budget deficits, painful but necessary. And they say solving the budget crises should be up to each states' leaders to decide, free from meddling by national political figures.

House Speaker John Boehner lashed out at the White House Thursday, accusing it of complicating governors' efforts to put their fiscal houses in order.

"According to news reports, the White House has even unleashed the Democratic National Committee to spread disinformation and confusion in Wisconsin regarding the governor's courageous actions," he said. "I urge the president to order the DNC to suspend these tactics. This is not the way you begin an 'adult conversation' in America about solutions to the fiscal challenges that are destroying jobs in our country."
http://abcnews.go.com/Polit...ts/story?id=12949812

quote Originally posted by TommyRocker: Apparently there is a rally in support of Walker today around noon. My mom wanted me to go with her and some of our acquaintances but I am working. Not surprising to see this kind of thing from a teacher. Most teachers don't live in the real world. this guy teaches business, but if he was actually capable of running a successful business he would be doing that rather than teaching for a lousy $70,000/yr for a part time job... Oh, wait... **** , I should be a teacher... Damn, they got it all figured out! Plus, they can use the kids as leverage for more pay.. Jeez, these guys are brilliant!!

dont badmouth my old teacher simply because YOU are greedy. he teaches business because he enjoys teaching. hes still in his 20s, so that wont last....but right now, he loves his job, thats why he does it.

IF he does his job because he loves it then why the **** is he screaming outside the WI capital demanding more money?
Sounds like Dear Teacher did not teach you to think before you open your mouth.

Hope whoever wrote this isn't a math teacher. How on earth can you think that these cutbacks will cost someone making 40k a year 6k in take home pay ??? They're asked to pay 12.6% of health care premiums, maybe $14k annual for a family plan. That translates to aprox $ 150 a month, BEFORE taxes, so it's actually less. Most dual income families will only be paying one premium so it's even less. Pension plan at 5.8% is $ 2320 annual BEFORE taxes. Total right around $ 4,000 annual before taxes, maybe $250 - $ 275 a month after taxes. Yea, it might sting a little at first but I just don't see all the municipal workers wholesale losing their homes. Government employes have had it too good for too long, Maybe they need a two tier system like the auto workers. Anybody new comes in at drastically reduced wages & benefits but that won't help their current crisis. Time to put your big girl panties on & suck it up..

quote Originally posted by red88gt: Time to put your big girl panties on & suck it up..

Big girl panties sure are awfully small these days, and they stick in your crack.

Did Rachel Maddow write that for her?

I think the solution is pretty easy:

The Governor should address the protesters. Tell them he's reconsidering. Ask for 6,000 volunteers. Say, "You're fired."

Then tell them to pick up their trash.

Saw they had at least one doctor going through the crowd handing out sick excuses so they can get paid for the time they are protesting.
This has got to be illega, or at least unethical.
She apparently works at the university. Wonder if she is getting paid for each visit.
Sure Lobe would know.

Will the protesters be reprimanded for falsifying sick time?

I'm having difficulty articulating how I feel. On one hand, I don't have a problem with people making good money and I was a member of the united food workers union (non-government) at one time. On the other hand, I feel the public sector unions have hijacked the tax payers to the point that they're going to backrupt the states.

I feel a bit uneasy passing along these couple of short videos, they struck a nerve in me after learning that my taxes have to go up to support compensation packages that have totally detached from economic reality that we're in.


.

So, any discussion on the missing $1 billion in corporate taxes? I didn't see anything in there about cutting corporate welfare. How about the fact that the police and fire-fighters are exempt? Or the fact that all of those jobs that went to China went there by way of American corporations. How many CEO's lost their jobs? Or more importantly, how many CEO's received mega-bonuses for moving those jobs? Granted, we all need to make sacrifices when needed, but is that what's really happening? No, I don't have the answers, but balancing a budget on the backs of a targeted group(s) is less than comprehensive. OBTW, I have a hard time supporting anything that Jesse Jackson is in favor of.

quote Originally posted by faaaaq: dont badmouth my old teacher simply because YOU are greedy. he teaches business because he enjoys teaching. hes still in his 20s, so that wont last....but right now, he loves his job, thats why he does it.

you teacher's rant is a product of a self entitled spoiled brat. Go back and teach if he likes it, quite siphoning tax payer money so he can scream like a kid for more candy.

A few questions if you will. I don't live in Wisconsin, so I'm not viewing this mess first hand.

quote Originally posted by faaaaq: from the mouth of my old Business teacher

Wait, you went to business school? When did this happen? Most importantly, what's up with your posts over the past few months if you went to business school?

quote "Sorry for typos, it’s 4AM and I’ve probably averaged a couple hours of sleep the last three nights This is surreal. I week ago I was minding my own business, with no excitement, same old same old. Tonight as I was standing in a crowd of 50,000 people screaming and protesting at the top of my lungs, a hundred feet from a preaching Jessie Jackson in front of the capitol from which 14 democratic senators had just fled over the state border to hide from the police so they didn’t have to vote on a bill erasing 50+ years of labor rights in Wisconsin, I looked at Emily and asked….Is this really happening?

The Senators are not doing their jobs and should face jail time for skipping the state to avoid it.

quote Well it is and here are some of the things I’ve learned this week…… For those of you that know me you know a few things about me. One I’m not really politically active. I vote every election but that is the extent of it. I don’t want to label myself as belonging to a party although I will admit usually I’m going to lean towards the democratic party. So what I’m about to write isn’t some political agenda I’m pushing. Second you know that I’m not very concise with my writing, and I sometimes have been known to exaggerate. Well I can’t do anything about my long windedness, but I can promise not to exaggerate and let you know that I’ve done my fair share of research on what I’m about to say and I hope you read it because this is incredibly important.

OK, you have had problems telling the truth in the past, but this time you will tell the truth. Gotcha

quote To understand this you need to start by knowing we have a newly elected republican governor that has a majority republican legislature and has passed multiple controversial bills in the last two months without a problem, so he is starting to believe he can pass anything. Despite what you may hear in the news this is about one thing and one thing only, workers rights.

I actually think it's about a budget, but hey, I'm not there, So far your "non-political" view has slammed one party, and not said anything bad about the other side, the one actually breaking the law right now, continue please.

quote I’m tired of seeing headlines like “teachers fight for higher salaries.” In a nutshell, last Friday Gov. Walker proposed what he called a Budget Repair Bill to balance our budget. His plan was to get it pushed through the State Senate and Assembly in less than a week to make it law by the following Thursday (yesterday).

Right, because as far as budgets go, they are usually not done years ahead of time, having a short time between their introductions, and implementation is typical.

quote Then the protests started and continued to grow. Eventually we were 50,000 strong inside and outside of the capitol. And this was on the coldest day, today where wind chills tonight were in the teens. Our numbers and persistence emboldened the democratic senators to flee to Illinois so the Republicans did not have quorum and could not take a vote. It was expected the republicans would vote straight party and pass the bill in both houses. Right now we are in a stale mate as the senators are still MIA and the Governor won’t back down. Here are just a few of the reasons people are so upset.

Once again, as Senators they should never break the law to prove a point, especially when it involves State business.

quote 1) To give you a rundown of the financial aspects of the bill, here is what it asks for. All public employees, which includes teachers, nurses, bus drivers, DNR, correctional officers(prisons), UW college professors and TA’s, sanitation workers, streets dept, and on and on and on would have to contribute at least 5.8% more of their salary to their pensions and cover 12.6% of their health insurance costs. Walker argues these are modest amounts when compared to the private sector. Looking at it as an outsider, to be honest I would probably agree, but you need to look closer. First off, what does this mean to the average worker who makes around $40,000 a year? The net effect would be a decrease somewhere between $5,000-$6,000 a year in take home pay. So for families like mine with two state workers you can double it to up to $12,000. How on Earth do you call this modest? Think about your life and if you could cut $500 or in our case $1,000 a month from your budget. I know people that will literally lose their house. I’ve heard from teachers that would need to go on welfare. Some districts have already seen teachers fill out retirement papers because they are terrified of this passing.

If teachers are retiring, that's great. As a profession teaching is one of the most noble. However in many areas it has been overtaken by money hungry left wing nuts. Since the ones that are retiring are the ones costing the system the most, and typically providing the least. It's probably better this way.

quote Now teachers and public workers are willing to say sure we will start to chip in, but to it needs to be gradual, you can’t just go from where it is to that overnight. One of the republican senators said and I quote “ when I found out about my pension I got over it in 10 seconds, you are all being melodramatic and need to just get over it because it’s no big deal.”

Most workers get no warning whatsoever. Be glad you still have a job the way things are going.

quote It defies the imagination his lack of compassion and how he just doesn’t get it. The other thing that is important to understand is this. Comparing pubic to private workers is like comparing apples to oranges. If you want to there are two reliable studies down by independent organizations that show public workers are underpaid compared to public sector counterparts with similar jobs.

This is one of those areas where I could go on for hours. The Government does not and should not decide the rate of pay for anything. One could say that Government workers are overpaid compared to public sector workers.

quote Also the public sector workers on average have more education.

So we are agreeing that Government workers on in general are more ignorant, why then are they wanting us to listen to them, and for Gods sake why are they teaching our children!

quote But where Walker and others like to focus is on the benefits. Everyone is jealous of the benefits and says public employees are freeloaders.

This is the "juvenile" argument. "You just don't like me because you are jealous." Yea, keep going with that train of thought, and when you get past a 16 year old's mentality we will talk.

quote The reality is that for years public employees and unions have taken smaller or non-existent pay increases as a trade off to keep these cushy benefits.

The Unions were given a choice, pay raise, and benefit cut, or maintain. I think you may be accind

quote It’s really up to the union to decide what they wanted to negotiate for. It is unfair for the unions to be punished because they have bargained and negotiated for these benefits for years. Not to mention these same unions(started in Wisconsin) were responsible for weekends, the 8 hour work day, 40 hour work week, and workers compensation.

Ahhh, this I can agree with. However, that was the Unions in the past. It's like saying I should buy a new Ford because the 1933 model T was reliable.

quote What happens with these unions has a direct result on private sector workers as well. I talked to a smart nurse(from the private sector) who gets it. She noted that if this goes through and pay and benefits go down for public sector nurses, her private hospital will be able to offer lower salaries and benefits for their employees because they will still be able to be competitive with the public hospitals and guess what? There will be nothing for these private sector nurses to do about it because they have no union to protect them and no recourse.

Once again So is he saying that Nursing is only competitive because of Unions. Is this guy really a Business teacher, because he isn't sounding like he "gets it" at all.

quote Bottom line, some professions have developed unions for protection and some haven’t. There seems to be a backlash from some workers who are without union protection maybe because of jealousy, who knows.

Or because the people outside the Union can see the rot, and destruction this "Union system" is causing.

quote This will also have a devastating effect on small business throughout the state as well. Some are finally starting to notice this. I’ve even seen a couple chambers of commerce come out against the bill for that reason. All the businesses around the capitol have expressed concern because a lot of their clientele are public workers from across the street.

Well yea, if I sold baggys in Compton and the Police started busting crack dealers I would be pretty nervous too.

quote I have started to try to explain this to some of the business here in Madison that I frequent. If you have public workers losing $6,000 or $500 a month in discretionary income they are going to have to make many cuts.

I'm not even going to argue on the amounts, and I'm not against anyone having extra money, heck make as much as you can. But how does a "public servant" have 500 bucks in discretionary spending every month?

quote With almost 200,000 public employees this could be crippling to the state.

I don't know if you follow the news, but the State is crippled already. I'd give you a quick lesson in how the money system works, but I may as well talk to a wall I think.

quote I have already told multiple businesses about this trickle down effect and tried to explain that the same big business Walker is in bed with will eventually be hurt by this. The only counter arguments I’ve heard to this just don’t make sense. Opponents argue that this bill will save the taxpayers money since we all have to pay more in and they will make up for any lack of spending we have.

DO you remember where your salary comes from? I'll give you a hint, they work in those stores you frequent. You act like the money you get just magically appears. Your job exists because of the businesses, they do not exist because of you.

quote The reality is their taxes aren’t going down from this bill. The money is just being reallocated to other things so they won’t have any more money. Oh yeah and the net effect of absolutely gutting all these teachers and public employees??? $30 million dollars for the state. May sound like a lot, but when you are talking about a state budget it’s pocket change. Clearly the 3% of the state budget that goes to public employees is the problem (in fairness this is another figure I have not confirmed).

I'd like to add another here.

quote 2) Unions. Unions, Unions. At least the truth is finally starting to come out that this budget bill has nothing to do with the budget but is all about busting the unions. The fact that Walker has taken all collective bargaining and effectively destroyed all public unions in this bill is why he is really pushing it. Walker should at least have the balls to admit that and not call it something else. Although he made that pretty clear today. The unions came out saying they would make the financial concessions in the bill if he left collective bargaining intact (effectively calling his bluff) and he still was not interested. So if this bill was truly about the budget and he could get the money he was looking for why is he still refusing to sit down and work this out? Answer’s easy, that wouldn’t accomplish his goal to dismantle the unions. I won’t get into the theory that this is a much larger push by the Republican party through the entire U.S. to crush the major donors (unions) to Democrats, but look around the country and you can come to your own conclusions.

He's a good man, he knows not to negotiate with terrorists.

quote Under the bill the only thing unions could bargain for is salary, however the highest the raise could be is the consumer price index (inflation) or a voter referendum would be needed. We all know a voter referendum would never pass since the public already always thinks we are lazy and overpaid to begin with. The bill also calls for an annual vote by members on whether to keep the union and dues become optional. With such a miniscule scope of power, Walker knows in a short time the unions will fade away. Why would workers pay hefty dues to sustain a union that can’t get you any benefits? The other problems with losing the teachers union specifically are that teachers would have no say in class size, planning, curriculum, benefits, seniority, etc. Teachers could be fired at any point no reason given. A district could say ok, now are you going to have a class of 50 students and we couldn’t grieve it, or do anything about it. A class with 20 special ed kids and no support? Too bad. Not to mention the state could decide next year that guess what, now you pay for all of your pension and all of health insurance and there would be no way to fight it.

SO without Unions teachers would be destroyed? I also like the way you have managed to make all the other Government workers in this irrelevant.

quote Interestingly the only three unions exempt from Walker’s bill and allowed to still have unions? Police Fire and State Troopers. Why? Depends who you ask. One possible explanation is these are the three unions that endorsed Walker in the election. Also the two Fitzgerald brothers (both republicans, one the majority leader of the senate, one of the assembly….convenient huh?....although they were elected so I’m not accusing them of nepotism). Oh wait, yes I am because their father was just appointed by Walker as the head of the state troopers. Or you can go with what Walker himself said. In the result of strikes from his proposal, he had contingencies including the National Guard to deal with prison workers and other public workers, but he had no contingency if the fire or police went on strike. This tells me a few things. First and foremost, as the Mayor of Madison stated, when you have to put the National Guard on standby for a budget announcement maybe that a sign there is a problem.

Yes, and that problem needs removed. I'd like to know again how this is "shutting down" Unions, and how that should be intertwined with your ability to do a job.

quote Second if you think your policy could cause a police strike that is maybe another indication. So instead he exempted them and is sending the message that somehow collective bargaining is important and worth protecting for some employees and not for others. This is part of the reason the U.N., yes that U.N. is currently preparing legal action against the Governor of Wisconsin if this legislation passes.

The U.N. huh. Good luck with that.

quote Fortunately for the labor movement, this backfired and both the police and fire have come out in strong opposition to the bill anyway and have been out there protesting with us. The bill pits capitol police, DNR game wardens, UW police and correctional officers (all included in the bill) against regular police and state troopers (not included). This might have been intentionally to further split up the unions, but they have unified and come out against it. There is a story and I have my doubts if I believe it but it says that there were a bunch of protestors staging a sit in at one of the republican leader’s house. They were sitting in his driveway so he couldn’t get to the capitol. He called the police and when they got there they joined the protestors. Again I have serious doubts if it’s true, but it would be great if it was. Regardless, I have had conversations with some police and heard of others who have said they’ve got our back.

So you are advocating Anarchy, I'm with you there. Lets burn this bad boy to the ground!!!

quote The firefighters possibly fearing they might be a target down the road or just for solidarity have been incredible. They have been out there in large numbers all week. They continue to lead parades through the capitol with bagpipes and in full dress and are inspiring. The first day I was literally almost in tears as the president of the firefighters union came up to speak and said even though they weren’t in the bill, they were with us. He said that firefighters are the first responders when there is an emergency and this is an emergency. He continued “when a house is on fire we are the first ones to charge in and our house is on fire so we’d like to lead you into the capitol.” They then lead us into the capitol for the first of many times. Today Emily and I accidentally ended up eating lunch with over 100 firefighters. We first tried to go into the Old Fashioned and there were 3 cops blocking the front door because apparently Jessie Jackson was in there eating our cheese curds. So we went to another place and were seated in an area that was inundated five minutes later with all the firefighters. The bar then brought out 10-15 cases of free beer for the firefighters. We spent our lunch talking to them and I was thanking them all and they kept saying “no, thank you guys for fighting this cause for all of us.” This was definitely a highlight and firefighters are true heroes in my book.

In my opinion everyone who is out protesting this while they are supposed to be at work should be fired on the spot. Including firefighters, and police, it's time for you worthless tax suckers to learn your place.

quote Ok back to the union part of the bill. Here’s Walkers other argument. Unions make negotiations too difficult and we are broke and in crisis and it would take way too long to negotiate with the unions to get contracts. He says with so many different unions it’s not feasible to have them all bargain and it could never work. I find this very hard to believe since it has successfully worked in Wisconsin this way for over 50 years.

Um, the state is broke, your system has destroyed it, I'd say if it worked there would be no budget problems.

quote Walker would have you believe (and terrifyingly many people agree with him) that the unions and public employees and their cushy benefits are responsible for the budget being where it is. This is despite the fact that Wisconsin has had much bigger budget problems in the past and made it through just fine. If you still had doubts, how come the city councils (who negotiate with state employees) and school districts and school boards of ed(at the local and state level) have almost unanimously come out against this bill, stating that they believe collective bargaining works. I state “almost unanimously” not because anyone of them have come out for the bill just because I can’t state with certainty that every single one has because I don’t think they have all made their views public. But all the big ones have. Although I’m sure Walker is right, it is apparently so hard to negotiate that the city of Madison called an emergency session of the city council last night and in one night successfully negotiated extensions for all 12 of the city’s unions into 2012, in the hopes of protecting them from this bill (hope you caught the sarcasm there). One of the scariest parts of this bill is that Walker and the Republicans have tried to use scare tactics to convince Wisconsinites this is necessary. Beyond the fictitious budget crisis, which I will mention below, they have stated there will be over 1,000 layoffs if this proposal does not pass.

I heard 10,000, and I hope he pushed through with it, and that you are one of them. You care for nobody other than yourself, obviosly do not understand business, and I don't think you should be teaching anyone.

quote The promise, however, that if all these financial concessions are made, those layoffs can be avoided. Here is the truth. Layoffs are coming no matter what. Leaks of Walker’s actual budget he plans to unveil next week state he is going to cut educational funding by at least 900 million. The Wisconsin Education Association Council has already stated this will have a devastating effect on education. When districts have to cut that much money, how do they do it? They lay off teachers or cut programs. Once the Repair Bill gets through, Walker will be able to make this announcement and the unions won’t have any power to protect teachers against any layoffs. The Janesville District has already stated they may lose as many as 85 teachers.

Sad when teachers lose their jobs, for it's the children that suffer. You remember them, the ones you are supposed ot be teaching instead of rioting in the streets like common thugs.

quote How about the bus drivers? They currently receive $45 million in federal aid. This aid is contingent on their members having collective bargaining rights. If the bill passes they will lose this aid and have to make cuts of their own. How about the university? Walker is also expected to announce next week that he will spin off UW Madison from the other UW system schools. As a result of this and budget cuts under the Governor’s plan the university has stated that they may have to raise tuition 26% over the next two years. All the UW universities and secondary schools are also terrified of so called brain drain. With dramatic cuts to benefits and net pay, it will be much harder for schools to recruit and retain highly qualified teachers. For some this has already started to happen. There is already a constant feeling that our education system is screwed up and our kids are not doing as well and it needs to be fixed. I guess Walker or others could use that argument for their cause. I don’t see, however, how it will get any better if you have smaller compensation packages. This will not attract better teachers who can help reverse the problem. I’m not saying there aren’t problems with education and the pay system, but this is not the solution. Apparently Walker has consistently come out with initiatives that hurt education(possibly due to the fact that he dropped out of college and never graduated). Some of my favorite protest signs played off of that with “100% of Wisconsin educators have more education than Scott Walker” – factually true, as is “Scott Walker is not qualified to be a substitute teacher.” 3) We are not in a financial crisis so this bill is unnecessary. Originally the state fiscal bureau said the state was on pace for a $121 million surplus this year (this is a fact, not disputed by republicans). To be fair and balanced I have read that there are some large bills the state owes that are not included in this number and would put the state slightly in the red. Another fact is that Walker and the legislature recently passed over $100 million in tax cuts to businesses. Walker argues that this was necessary to bring companies into the state and create jobs. The problem is it creates a deficit that he now claims is a crisis that can only be helped by these cuts to union workers. Another fact is that 2/3rds of corporations in Wisconsin end up owing no corporate income taxes because of loop holes and tax cuts allowed by Wisconsin laws. Also the revenue generated by corporate income tax in the state has been cut in half since 1981. Do you really believe that companies in Wisconsin are making half as much money now as they were in 1981? Again those two statistics are facts I got directly from the State fiscal bureau and not some liberal agenda.

quote One statistic that I have not been able to independently confirm but I believe to be true because I’ve seen it mentioned in newspaper articles is that corporations still owe over $1 billion dollars In uncollected corporate income taxes that Walker is not attempting to collect. Any way you look at it, it is clear Walker is more interested in getting money from middle class workers than from large corporations. I have also read articles in the Wall Street Journal, Forbes Magazine and the Washington Post all reiterating that Wisconsin is not in a budget crisis in any way shape or form. I would call these reliable sources.

Once again, you do realize that you are supposed to be teaching business right? At this point of your rambling I wouldn't want you teaching kickball in the gym. You are paid by the taxpayers, money paid to you (teachers) is an investment for the States future, and apparently you guys failed in that, time to make that up.

quote 4) The bill includes significant cuts to Badger Care and gives the Governor control over who is eligible. To be completely honest this is not a part of the bill I’m familiar with but the nurses and those who care for the less fortunate are very upset about this. Another provision gives the governor full authority to fire multiple different types of state employees and replace them with his appointees. He argues this will allow him to run government more smoothly. I can see this both ways, I agree with his argument, but if he fills the government with a bunch of “yes” men that only do his bidding, that worries me.

And if he does that you vote him out in the next term. This is a big Duh, and it's starting to sound like you are picking to pick (you know, for someone who is not political)

quote The most disappointing thing in all of this for me is the realization that you simply can’t trust politicians or the media.

Hey, were on the same page here. Too bad you are so seduced by Unions that you will never see how dirty they are.

quote I think I probably knew this already but now I have lived it and seen how ridiculously both will spin information and outright lie to make their point. There is no accountability and any exaggeration I’ve ever done would absolutely pale in comparison to what I’ve seen. Now on this issue I happen to believe the democrats and the liberal media are without question on the right side, but that does not give them a free pass.

Alright, you finally made a stand and admitted your bias. Way to go man.

quote They can be just as guilty. I used to love watching MSNBC. To be honest Fox is a joke. Glen Beck is a complete caricature and I truly believe he is one of the most dangerous people in America because people actually believe his hateful nonsense. He makes me so angry I don’t even want to get into it.

Right, it's almost the same type of anger as a left wing teacher that doesn't understand business being paid to teach business to children, and then skipping work to protest.

quote But everyone knows Fox is a republican spin machine and of course they are going to cater to their audience. I thought MSNBC was better. I know they are liberal, but I thought they were more about reporting the news. Ed Schultz who I feel bad criticizing because he has taken up our cause and is really the one responsible for the National attention, isn’t much better than the Fox anchors. He acts more like he is running for office rather than reporting the news. In general though, there have been so many inaccuracies in what I have seen reported it’s insane. When you are an observer you usually just trust the news, but when you are right in the middle of it and know the facts, it is infuriating to see reports that are inaccurate. For one thing, Fox is spewing that Madison is verging on riots, and there are thugs, etc. This couldn’t be further from the truth. It is teachers, nurses, fire fighters, cops, families. One fox reporter said people who brought their kids are irresponsible. I have been to plenty of sporting events that were a lot less kid friendly than this. The kids are learning and seeing democracy in action and everyone has been extremely peaceful which the police have thanked us for. Today I read the memo that went out to tea partiers encouraging them to come tomorrow. It stated that we were bringing in bus loads of out of staters to inflate our numbers. This couldn’t be further from the truth. These are the actual people who are being affected by this bill and those who support them, and they are from Wisconsin. I have so far only encountered two out of staters, one guy from Illinois with a clever sign “Illinois middle class supports this pack” and I ate dinner with one grandma from Minnesota who goes wherever protests are. I just hope it stays non violent as we continue. Now that it is a national issue, more agitators will come in on both sides from out of state. I fear Jessie Jackson was the start of this (not that he’s an agitator….well…).

Right, so you have only met two people that are from out of state, there are records of busses bringing in many people from out of state, but that doesn't count because the wrong news reported it. Man, you should exhale more.

quote The governor has also supplied countless lies or half truths. Every press conference he comes out with a statistic about how many emails or calls he’s received in favor of the bill, but not once has he mentioned how many he’s gotten against it. I also personally think the reports of the numbers of protestors have been low. Even on the low end, however, they estimated 40,000 for today. The focus has been on Madison and people are coming down from all over the state, but there have also been many other protests and walkouts throughout the state. Plus people forget to take into consideration how many people are actually inside the capitol. At one point, every hallway, and every corridor for 4 floors was packed so tight that workers could not get in and out of meeting rooms and the building went on lockdown. That was at the height but even at the lowest point the capitol is packed solidly like you see in the images all day long. There are drummers who stay in the middle of the rotunda leading the cheers non-stop. There has been a presence in the building without a break from last Tuesday morning, including as I type now at almost 3 AM Friday night, well I guess Saturday morning.

All costing your State more money, smart man, I'd be proud too.

quote On Tuesday they started the only day of public testimony. It started at 10AM and each speaker was allowed 2 minutes. The Joint Finance Committee had stated the session would last until all speakers who wanted to got a chance to talk. Well guess what, it is still going on at this hour, four days later. Nobody has spoke out for the bill since 1:00 on that first day.

I'm sure it's easy to get through the crowd of protesters to speak out against them. I got balls, but even I would not be stupid enough to do that.

quote At 3AM on that first day, despite their own rules that it would keep going, the republicans said the session was over and walked out(I guess after hearing 14 hour straight of all pro union supporters they got tired of it). The democratic members said they would stay to honor the promise everyone could be heard and have been there

Except they left too.

quote (on a rotating basis, and now only with the assembly members since the senators are hiding in Illinois) ever since. This has also been done to keep the capitol open to the public over night. Without a meeting the capitol would have to close at a certain hour and protestors would have to clear out. By the democrats keeping this meeting going, the capitol hasn’t closed since Tuesday and protestors have been sleeping in the rotunda, which has been transformed by signs and an energy that is impossible to describe on paper. You have to be in there to understand it.

I bet it's a real craphole by now, I'm betting cleanup will be in the millions. It's spelled protesters by the way, but hey, your the teacher.

quote In conclusion, this has been hell. This has been absolutely inspiring at times and devastating at others. It has been an absolute roller coaster. I’m tired, I’m hungry, I’m mentally drained. I have a lot of trouble sleeping which is why I’m still typing this at 3AM. I’ve been getting down there around 8AM and staying until around 10 PM most nights. Then I come home and read articles and posts on the numerous facebook pages dedicated to the topic until like 2 or 3 AM, then get a couple hours of sleep and start again. Within each day I go from points of exhilarating highs to lows where I feel like it’s time to completely give up. The first few days I had trouble eating. I had no appetite at all and when I tried to eat I felt nauseous. The stress we went through the last three days of “should I call in sick” “am I going to get fired if I do. “ Everyone told us different stories. We were originally threatened by principals and districts but were being pressured by the union to call out. Once the decision was made, the last two days I’ve felt like the movie Valkyrie with Tom Cruise where he is waiting to see if they won control of different districts in Berlin(for me it was checking school closings to see who was joining us).

So the Unions trump teaching, I think I'm starting to understand, SOmeone should remove the Unions from the picture.

quote I know we are not fighting for the civil rights movement or for freedom like in Egypt(don’t get me started on how much I hate that comparison and any signs that mention it, although I did see footage today from Egypt with a guy carrying a sign “Egyptians support Wisconsin Workers”), but at the same time I feel this is incredibly important. The rights we are fighting for (and that I admittedly always took for granted and never much cared about before) were fought for many years ago in this very state and Walker has the arrogance to think he can erase them in less than a week. Martin Luther King Jr. was shot while giving a speech fighting for union rights. Jessie Jackson said tonight that this was a Martin Luther King Jr. moment, which I think might be a little over dramatic as was Rachel Maddow when she said the 14 hiding democrats were carrying the future of the democratic party on their shoulders, but it IS Important.

Well, I'm glad you don't have a big head about this.

quote This is not some group of greedy teachers fighting for more pay. I was almost involved in a strike in Schaumburg that did fit that mold, but this is different, much different. This is a large group of workers of all kinds, from all walks of life that are fighting for something they truly believe in. The resolve I’ve seen has been incredible. And as I mentioned earlier these are people that could potentially lose everything, and the Governor and some of his supporters seem clueless to what is going to happen if this bill passes.

As long as we are spreading half truths, I heard the Governor ate unborn babies. That has as much fact in it as what you just wrote.

quote Wow, I think I’ve been listening to too many speeches……Ok I’ll get off my soap box, but not before I recognize some of the results I feel we have accomplished. Scott Walker was planning on getting this bill introduced late last Friday and passed the following Thursday. Going into Thursday morning we did not feel much hope. Late Wednesday night I watched the joint finance committee vote straight party lines 12-4 to pass the bill on to the full legislature. The votes were supposed to come in Thursday during the day with it expected to pass. We came out anyway. We came out in larger crowds every single day. And I have to give credit to my district MMSD. We were the first public employees to take any job action. We put ourselves out there and took a risk, luckily others followed and for the first time ever the entire state teacher’s union called for two days of job action. I can’t tell you how unprecedented this is. I give credit to our school board also which not only sent a letter to the Governor, strongly condemning the bill(as did our superintendent) but also voted yesterday unanimously that no disciplinary action would be taken on any teacher that was back in school by next Monday. Unfortunately some districts were stricter so some schools stayed in session. Milwaukee was a huge boost today though. I also have to give tons of credit to the UW Madison students and the high school kids. The UW students started all of this off last Monday by delivering thousands of Valentine’s Day cards to the governor asking him not to break their hearts. They have been an incredibly large presence every day. Thursday they had a “teach out” where they gathered the whole campus on Bascom Hill, pounding on doors and getting all classes to come outside and then marched down state street with a police escort to the capitol. The high school kids have also been right on the front lines. On Tuesday before the teacher strike began, almost 1,000 students walked out of my high school, Madison East. They marched 2 miles down E. Washington Ave to the capitol and started protesting. After the walkout, they didn’t go home or take off, they followed through. I read the facebook group page that organized this and they were very informed and aware of what they were doing.

Who want's to bet money that it is discovered that a Union organizer set this up.

quote And for the critics who said they just would do anything to get out of class, explain why over the last two days, they have continued to show up, over a thousand strong (with other schools now).

This is important Because all of their teachers are not there to teach them dumbass!!

quote They don’t have school, they can do whatever they want, and they have been marching to the capitol. Is this incredible show of support and civics lesson for the students portrayed that way in the media? Well not on Fox. Somebody interviewed a couple kids who said “Our teachers brought us here because some guy did something and we didn’t want to be in class.” Glen Beck was happy to show this clip on national media(which is probably illegal because these students were under 18 and I doubt had parental consent) saying we were using the students as “idiot soldiers.” Now the reality is sure there were some kids that went that had no idea, but it was my school and I know the kids that organized it and I talked to the kids that were there and the majority of them were extremely informed. In addition none of this was orchestrated by teachers, it was organized by students through a facebook page and no teachers accompanied them after they walked out. I bet I could find plenty of republicans that would say they are in favor of this bill just because they were republicans and they wouldn’t be able to tell me anything that is in it. Anyway, I got off on a tangent. Due to the mass mobilization of teachers, all public workers and UW students the 14 democratic senators looked out the window Thursday morning and said they had to choose between doing the usual politics and voting no but losing or going with the people, so they hoped a bus and headed over the border to Illinois. Another highlight was when democratic staffers went to the roof of the capitol and released a banner that said “Run Dems Run.” Once they didn’t show up, and since two republican senators were stuck in their office because there were so many people in the capitol that the police refused to escort them to the senate chamber for safety concerns, the senate had no choice but to adjourn. They made a house call which sends the police after the missing members and forces them to return, but the state troopers had no jurisdiction in Illinois so the cause lived on for another day. Today the assembly took up the measure and the republicans tried to vote on it without the assembly democrats(not the senators) so no amendments could be proposed. The democratic representatives heard about it and barged in screaming for the vote to stop. The republicans claimed they thought the dems weren’t going to show up and that’s why they started voting, but conceded and decided to adjourn until next Tuesday. So now we have won four more days. The longer we can postpone it the better our chances get of people realizing the truth behind this bill. In addition the Governor of Michigan was considering similar legislation but after seeing what was happening in Madison, said he would not take on unions. It’s incredible to think that if we didn’t do what we did this thing would be a law right now. The legislators have given us all the credit. The 14 that went awol(which I’m still not sure I think is right, but in this case I’m damn glad they did it, and they didn’t have much choice considering Walker’s tactics) have said they never would have done it but for our show of solidarity. So that is where we currently stand. We need to stay strong and show this will not end until the governor backs down. I hope things don’t get violent tomorrow with the tea partiers supposedly being bused in from all over and I hope the Wisconsin public workers win this battle. In case I haven’t convinced you, here are some of the people who are against this bill, teachers, professors, TA’s, students at all levels, school boards, school districts, superintendents, city councils, some chambers of commerce, the interfaith coalition as well as local churches and synagogues, the archdiocese, veterans’ groups, police, fire, all state workers including nurses, doctors, DNR, dept. of corrections, the Packers, and by two recent independent polls, the majority of Wisconsinites.

Thanks for including that list, it did not convince me, but feel free to continue following the crowd.

quote I feel like I should have cited this like a research paper since I have citations to back all of this up, but I didn’t want to waste your time, but if you doubt any of this, let me know and I can try to get you my source."

Yea, no sense wasting our time here.

Brad

I can't believe you're calling me greedy. I work six days a week, pay my own bills, my own insurance, my own way. I have exactly what I earn and nothing more. You steal your neighbor's wifi, whine about your father constantly, don't work a real job, root your cell phone to get free illegal tethering, and expect all us workers to pay for free healthcare for your lazy ass, free cell phones for your lazy friends, free wifi for you and your lazy dad. As your screen name implies, **** you. If I'm greedy for wanting to keep what I work my ass off for, then I don't know a word to describe the **** stains of society like youraelf.

quote Originally posted by texasfiero: "We've heard for 10% of the work force. Now, its time to hear from the other 90%", Herman Cain

Why that is no speech, there are no teleprompters.

quote Originally posted by 87antuzzi:

How appropriate. The union is holding a gun to the rest of Wisconsin......

What has become of the missing Wisconson senators? Isn't abandoning their positions illegal or something?

TEACHERS: If you want to be treated like a professional then act & dress like a professional! I’m a school teacher (Middle School Industrial Technology) as a second career retired from the Navy. I’m NOT pro-union & I’m certainly more Republican than Democrat (I always vote for the platform as an independent not the party). You should see how I have to tip toe around my freedom of speech at work because I’m a professional teacher not a pro-union teacher!

I’m a public servant from two perspectives; Once as a military/retired military & secondly as a school teacher. Here is my take on the whole budget crisis. I have had my salary frozen many times as a military member, did I have to re-enlist? No. I chose to reenlist, knowing very well the dangers and the salary. As a school teacher do I have to continue to teach? No. I choose to, knowing very well the pressures, expectations and the salary constraints.

My take on the union: I would rather be evaluated on a regular basis and be paid based on how effective I am then be dictated by a salary schedule based on a contract. The problem is this:
1. Not enough supervisors to evaluate the teaching staff fairly and impartially.
2. No parental accountability, if the household doesn’t value education most of the time the student will not engage in learning or worse yet, steel the educational opportunity from those who want to learn.
3. Our “I’m going to sue you” happy society negatively impacts education as well.
Without fixing 1-3, I see the value of the union only as it pertains to 1-3. In my opinion the only difference between public & private schools is the parental accountability piece.

Do I teach for the money? No, teaching for me is a calling. Am I well compensated for the number of days I work a year? As a new teacher No! At the time I went into teaching if I wasn’t retired from the military I could not have afforded to accept a teaching position based on my age & work experience. Currently; Yes with over 12 years on the pay scale I feel I’m appropriate compensated. Can I afford to have my pay frozen (for 2 years in our state) or participate in my own retirement planning? Yes, why should I have it made when many in my community (good hard working folks) are out of work! In our state teachers do contribute to a retirement plan with some matching by the individual school districts. Health care varies widely from district to district as far as what % is paid by the employee & employer.

Should we pay for good teachers? Yes! But for Pete’s sake let the ineffective ones go! Supply & demand, if the pay is too low we will have a teacher shortage, if the pay is too high we will have more teachers then available positions. If the pay is appropriate we will have a balance of good experienced teachers to good new teachers & a balanced ratio of new hires to new retiree’s.

Side Note: As an Industrial technology teacher I ware dress slacks, shirt, & tie to school every day, while most of my co-workers dress casual. Our contract union hours are 7:30 - 3:30, I’m in my room most days 7:00 - 4:15 (with students if need be). I actually work on my curriculum on weekends & during summer break. Am I paid for this time? Not if I look at it from a union perspective; I however look at it from a salary perspective. This is my job, this is what is expected of me, & this is my annual salary for doing the job to the best of my ability. I don’t look at it as I’m paid for only 182 days annually. As an Industrial technology teacher I was recently selected as the Minnesota Science Teacher of the Quarter. Do you think I was selected for this because I'm immersed in contract rules or because I chose to do what is right for my students? As a teacher I’m asked to attend many, many student activates. I do this gladly on my own time and money. If a student thinks that highly of me to invite me to watch them perform or compete then I certainly should make an honest attempt to attend. I’m my opinion teaching is a professional salaried position requiring much more than meets the eye.

Bottom line: My household budget is within its means. I believe our State & Federal governments must do the same. Will it hurt? Yes, some more than others. We as Americans must pull together & do this for our future (our kids & grand kids).

We Must Budget Within Our Means! We Must Start To Get Rid Of Our National Annual Deficit And Our All Consuming National Debt. Our Individual States Must Do The Same!

------------------
1986 Red s/e 2m6 5-sp, & 2006 Red Solstice 5-sp

quote Originally posted by joshua riedl: I like how they try to make it look like more people than it really is. keeping the camera low at the reporter so you can't see who is behind her. all college kids ...

That's what it looks like too, at least on TV. College kids with too much time on their hands, thinking they're latching onto something big, standing around in a circle and beating drums. And even on the ABC network news tonight, they said it looked and sounded like a college dorm.

quote Originally posted by railshot: Where were they when our jobs were being sent overseas and Wisconsin slowly became a manufacturing zero. I did not see them protesting when I lost my job(s).

Exactly. Public sector jobs are largely insulated from the rises and falls that effect other parts of our economy. Sure things are bad now but they're NOWHERE near as bad as they are in, say, construction (where we're all waiting for a "recovery") or manufacturing (which probably won't ever recover).

quote Originally posted by twofatguys: Brad

You actually read the whole thing?? I didn't get past the 1st bullet point before I was puking in my mouth..

[This message has been edited by Rallaster (edited 02-20-2011).]

What the government employees are saying (in a sense with the capital protests) is that if the state is that much in debt then raise taxes to cover it. Don't take anything from us. Plus I'm sure they all will want raises soon to cover inflation also.

Rodney

Apocalypse Now: Wisconsin vs. Big Labor
http://patriotupdate.com/ar...sconsin-vs-big-labor

quote Welcome to the reckoning. We have met the fiscal apocalypse, and it is smack dab in the middle of the heartland. As Wisconsin goes, so goes the nation. Let us pray it does not go the way of the decrepit welfare states of the European Union. The lowdown: State government workers in the Badger State pay piddling amounts for generous taxpayer-subsidized health benefits. Faced with a $3.6 billion budget hole and a state constitutional ban on running a deficit, new GOP Gov. Scott Walker wants public unions to pony up a little more. He has proposed raising the public employee share of health insurance premiums from less than 5 percent to 12.4 percent. He is also pushing for state workers to cover half of their pension contributions. To spare taxpayers the soaring costs of Byzantine union-negotiated work rules, he would rein in Big Labor’s collective bargaining power to cover only wages unless approved at the ballot box. As the free-market MacIver Institute in Wisconsin points out, the benefits concessions Walker is asking public union workers to make would still maintain their health insurance contribution rates at the second-lowest among Midwest states for family coverage. Moreover, a new analysis by benefits think tank HCTrends shows that the new rate “would also be less than the employee contributions required at 85 percent of large Milwaukee_area employers.” This modest call for shared sacrifice has triggered the wrath of the White House-Big Labor-Michael Moore axis. On Thursday, President Obama lamented the “assault on unions.” AFL-CIO and Service Employees International Union bosses dubbed Walker the “Mubarak of the Midwest” while their minions toted posters of Walker’s face superimposed on Hitler’s. Moore goaded thousands of striking union protesters to “shut down” the “new Cairo” while the state’s Democratic legislators bailed on floor debate over the union reform package. Education Secretary Arne Duncan spurned the opportunity to condemn thousands of Wisconsin public school teachers for lying about being “sick” and shutting down at least eight school districts across the state to attend capitol protests (many of whom dragged their students on a social justice field trip with them). Instead, Duncan defended teachers for “doing probably the most important work in society.” Only striking government teachers could win federal praise for NOT doing their jobs. Yes, the so-called progressives truly believe that bringing American union workers into the 21st century in line with the rest of the workforce is tantamount to dictatorship. Yes, the so-called progressives truly believe that by walking off their jobs and out of their classrooms, they are “putting children first.” If ever there were proof that public unions no longer work in the public interest, this is it. Big Labor dragoons workers into exclusive representation agreements, forces them to pay compulsory dues that fatten Democratic political coffers and then has the chutzpah to cast itself as an Egyptian-style “freedom” and “human rights” movement. Meanwhile, union leaders elsewhere are quietly forcing their low-wage members to share the sacrifice in order to preserve teetering health funds. In New York state, Skidmore College campus janitors, dining service workers and other maintenance employees received late notice from the SEIU that 4.15 percent of their gross earnings will now be deducted from their paychecks to cover the cost of the health plan provided through the behemoth 1199 SEIU Greater New York Benefit Fund. (If the name sounds familiar, it’s because this is one of several privileged SEIU affiliates that has received an Obamacare waiver.) These workers are forced to join the union in order to preserve their jobs, and unlike non-union workers, they are locked into a single health plan. The SEIU has now decreed that they must pay new fees to include spouses on their plans and has hiked employee co-pays for doctor visits and prescription drugs. What’s necessary for New York union workers is necessary for Wisconsin union workers — and for the rest of the protected union worker class in bankrupt and near-bankrupt states across America. The “persuasion of power” so ruthlessly and recklessly exercised by the SEIU and its thuggish allies must be broken by the moral courage of fiscal discipline. It’s now or never.

I say if they don't want to contribute more for their benefits, fine. Fire them all and then let them worry about getting their entitlements on their own.

[This message has been edited by avengador1 (edited 02-21-2011).]

quote Originally posted by Rodney: What the government employees are saying (in a sense with the capital protests) is that if the state is that much in debt then raise taxes to cover it. Don't take anything from us. Plus I'm sure they all will want raises soon to cover inflation also. Rodney

Nothing is free, including government. Walkers 100 million tax break for the wealthy caused this mess, so just reverse it. Just like the Bush tax cuts, which were supposed to create jobs (their excuse for every tax cut for the wealthiest) we would not have the federal budget mess we are in either without the 2 big Bush tax cuts that added not one job. Where are the jobs? Oh, yeah, CHINA. When Bush so famously appointed his "jobs czar" the guy had a factory under construction in .....you guessed it, CHINA. Screw Americans, let's take our big tax cuts and build another factory in CHINA. How is Walker going to lure jobs to Wisconsin if he is competing with CHINA? Why did Walker exclude 3 unions? Did any of you actually read the FACTS of this mess?

quote Originally posted by faaaaq: 1) To give you a rundown of the financial aspects of the bill, here is what it asks for. All public employees, which includes teachers, nurses, bus drivers, DNR, correctional officers(prisons), UW college professors and TA’s, sanitation workers, streets dept, and on and on and on would have to contribute at least 5.8% more of their salary to their pensions and cover 12.6% of their health insurance costs. Walker argues these are modest amounts when compared to the private sector. Looking at it as an outsider, to be honest I would probably agree, but you need to look closer. First off, what does this mean to the average worker who makes around $40,000 a year? The net effect would be a decrease somewhere between $5,000-$6,000 a year in take home pay. So for families like mine with two state workers you can double it to up to $12,000. How on Earth do you call this modest? Think about your life and if you could cut $500 or in our case $1,000 a month from your budget. I know people that will literally lose their house. I’ve heard from teachers that would need to go on welfare. Some districts have already seen teachers fill out retirement papers because they are terrified of this passing.

5.6% of $40,000 is only ~$2,200.

12.6% of health care of a $1,000 health insurance policy is $126. Dollars.

Unless she has like 15 kids, I have no idea where she got the idea that she would end up paying $4,000+

As a matter of fact, someone who only makes $40,000 would get nearly all of that ~2,200 back in a tax refund becuase it's a retirement contribution.

So in the end, she would end up only paying around $500 more a year.

... and this person is a teacher???


Besides that... why is that my problem? It's unsustainable. The taxpayers don't get that in their private sector jobs.

The tax payers are the ones who pay for the salaries of the public sector employees. They've decided they no longer want to support the public sector employees while the they (the private sector employees) suffer. They voted, and that's how it's going to be. That is the will of the people.


I didn't bother to read the rest, because of the very first point (the most important one) is completely erroneous, then I assume the rest of the e-mail is also wrong.

Please e-mail my response to her, maybe she'll not feel so bad when she realizes she won't be paying that much.


EDIT: If the unions were so concerned about their workers, they would offer to lower the cost of their dues to help cover the cost of the reduced benefits compensation. They'll never do that... because that means the unions will get less money, and will therefore have to reduce their own benefits and pay.

------------------
Todd,
2008 Jeep Patriot Limited 4x2
2002 Ford Explorer Sport 2dr 4x2
2002 Ford Crown Victoria LX
1987 Pontiac Fiero SE / V6
1973 Volkswagen Type-2 Transporter

[This message has been edited by 82-T/A [At Work] (edited 02-21-2011).]

quote Originally posted by weaselbeak: . Where are the jobs? Oh, yeah, CHINA.

Not to get into a long heated discussion about this but I used to be a service rep for a large company. I went to many factories. The bigger the union ( the higher the pay) the lazier the workers. Workers that dress in nice cloths and don't want to get dirty in anyway. Walk out 10 minutes past the buzzer going off. Attitudes. No ambition. Not my job. You would not believe what I saw thru the years. Workers in China and these other countries work for low wages and work very hard. The the victors go the spoils. We have imported many products thru the years. Japan used to be like China when I was young. Low costs goods.

They closed a local Delphi plant here. Made catalytic converters. Very high wages/benefits etc. If a guy was married and the wife got pregnant the husband got 6 weeks off for the birth of their child. Certainly a dream job. If I was ambitious I could tell you stories from the major breweries I used to go to that would make you sick. Someone once told me the automakers are even worse.

Many years ago I worked in a factory and they hired several people that worked in a large local company (that closed) that provided high wages and excellent benefits. These guys started at less than half what they used to make. They were terrible. Attitudes. They all quit or got let go quite quickly.

Not to start an argument. Just some of my life experiences.

Rodney

The amount of bullshit and lies that comes from the left over this is incredible.

They have been trying to say Wisconsin doesn't have a budget problem

Trying to say the government employees get paid less than private employees (the "study" was done by their union funded institute)

Having doctors sign fake excuses so they still get paid

The democrats have ran away from the state to avoid a vote.

I sure hope Walker continues to have the balls to get this through. The left is a total crock of **** .