Should you be allowed to use hot sauce as punishment for lieing?
***************************************************************88

Jessica Beagley, the mother of six who was seen punishing her 7-year-old son with hot sauce and cold showers in a video that aired on the “Dr. Phil” show, actually tortured her child according to experts.

The Video:


On Friday, an Anchorage, Alaska court charged Beagley with misdemeanor child abuse stemming from the actions showcased during her November appearance on “Dr. Phil." Psychiatrist Dr. Janet Taylor feels there’s no doubt about the mom’s guilt.

“Well, I think, clearly, it’s abuse,” Taylor explained on the TODAY show Tuesday morning. “I mean, abuse is not just leaving a mark. Certainly it’s emotional abuse, it’s neglect and all of that counts. The fact is we have to distinguish between discipline and punishment. This was punishment and torture.”

Dr. Alanna Levine, pediatrician and spokesperson for the American Academy of Pediatrics, agreed, calling Beagley’s actions a “black and white” case of abuse.

“This is completely inappropriate,” Levine told TODAY host Matt Lauer. “It’s terrible for the child being punished and for the other children in the home as well, who are witnessing.”

One child who definitely witnessed Beagley’s extreme methods was the 10-year-old daughter she tasked with filming the disturbing clips later shown on TV. Both Taylor and Levine pointed out that the problem with Beagley’s extreme approach to punishment is that it’s not only inappropriate for all children involved, it’s also ineffective.

“You don’t want to scare your children into listening to you,” Levine said. “You want them to listen to you because they respect you. And they’ll respect you if you mean what you say. You just have to be consistent with very small, repeatable consequences — taking away television, cancel a play date — things that don’t enforce harm on a child.”

Otherwise, as Taylor added, “the child’s not learning a lesson. They’re terrified.

[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 02-01-2011).]

How about when we were kids and mothers would put a bar of soap in one's mouth if one cursed ? The kid should have spit the hot sauce into the mom's eyes to teach her a lesson. She was being physically and mentally abusive to the kid the way she was yelling at him and making him hold the hot sauce in his mouth. She also has ruined Mexican food for him for life.

[This message has been edited by avengador1 (edited 02-01-2011).]

quote Originally posted by avengador1: How about when we were kids and mothers would put a bar of soap in one's mouth if one cursed ?

Exactly.
Is it abuse?

I dunno..it was a standard punisment for just about everything for me growing up and the only long-lasting effect I can see is I LOVE hot sauces and foods of all varieties. I really AM a walking Franks commercial in that "I put that shet on everything !" (No joking...I have even once tried putting it on a bowl of strawberries. THAT didnt work out so well )

I guess it might be abuse by todays standards...
I do have to admit though, the CIA should hire that lady as a interrogation specialist. "Who did it?!?" "I dont know!" " Dont make me put you in a cold shower!" lol

quote Originally posted by MidEngineManiac: I dunno..it was a standard punisment for just about everything for me growing up and the only long-lasting effect I can see is I LOVE hot sauces and foods of all varieties. I really AM a walking Franks commercial in that "I put that shet on everything !" (No joking...I have even once tried putting it on a bowl of strawberries. THAT didnt work out so well )

I love Franks hot sauces! I agree that it goes with almost anything.

------------------
86 GT
87 coupe restoration project.

My grandmother used to put Louisiana Hot Sauce on my cousin's thumb to keep him from sucking it. He won't eat anything without it now! It's his favorite condiment! If hot sauce is now considered abusive, the discipline I received as a kid would be considered downright torture nowadays. I think the whole subject of what is abuse and what isn't has become extremely overblown. I shudder to think of where I would've ended up had my parents been of the "spare the rod" variety.

This describes my childhood to the letter! LANGUAGE WARNING!! This is REALLY inappropriate for work!!

permanent taste bud damage, potential esophagus & stomach damage?

how about holding his eyes open & shining a bright light in his eye when he stays up to late......

then putting on headphones & playing music loudly when he makes to much noise.....

make him smell amonia when he comes in from playing stinky.....

soon, he'll have no useable senses.....

the sense of taste is a gift, and for this b!tch to deprive her child of that is a horrible thing. just beat him - much more humane.

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: Exactly. Is it abuse?

By today's standards, just touching your child in any way will be considered abuse by some.
What about the emotional and physical abuse from a spanking?
The emotional damage done by being put in "time out?"

Maybe the easier question in today's PC-fied world would be "what doesn't constitute abuse?"

I think I now understand the difference between discipline and abuse.

Discipline is what you do to your children.

Abuse is what everyone else does to their children.

quote Originally posted by avengador1: How about when we were kids and mothers would put a bar of soap in one's mouth if one cursed ? The kid should have spit the hot sauce into the mom's eyes to teach her a lesson. She was being physically and mentally abusive to the kid the way she was yelling at him and making him hold the hot sauce in his mouth. She also has ruined Mexican food for him for life.

I think soap is ok since it wont harm the child, but hot sauce? That's a bit over the line i think.

Cold shower? I don't see the point, but its not going to hurt the kid so i guess its ok.

quote Originally posted by avengador1: She was being physically and mentally abusive to the kid the way she was yelling at him and making him hold the hot sauce in his mouth. She also has ruined Mexican food for him for life.

The interesting part is if the kid starts to like it, it would no longer be effective punishment.
Is that what punishment is?
Something you could never find pleasurable.
After getting spanked for a time, it stops hurting and is then only dispised by the kid.
You know, where you don't really cry anymore, only wish they were dead.
At that point, what part of the punishment is being effective?
Is part of the effectiveness of punishment degradation?
The embarrasment?

Corrporal punishment has always seemed strange to me.
Pain as a tool to gain respect & obediance.
"I rule over you."

But when does that rule end?
When the ruled stand up for themselves?
Can you lay hands on your 28 year old?

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: But when does that rule end? When the ruled stand up for themselves? Can you lay hands on your 28 year old?

When they are a legal adult it becomes assault.

quote Originally posted by Doug85GT: I think I now understand the difference between discipline and abuse. Discipline is what you do to your children. Abuse is what everyone else does to their children.

QFT!!

I'm curious as to how hot sauce damages anything permanently. They better ban that stuff from stores if it's that dangerous.

Brad

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: The interesting part is if the kid starts to like it, it would no longer be effective punishment. Is that what punishment is? Something you could never find pleasurable. After getting spanked for a time, it stops hurting and is then only dispised by the kid. You know, where you don't really cry anymore, only wish they were dead. At that point, what part of the punishment is being effective? Is part of the effectiveness of punishment degradation? The embarrasment? Corrporal punishment has always seemed strange to me. Pain as a tool to gain respect & obediance. "I rule over you." But when does that rule end? When the ruled stand up for themselves? Can you lay hands on your 28 year old?

LMAO...my ma still thinks she can rule us at 44, 41 and 38.....<hehehe>, well to be more accurate, she spends a lot of time stting in impotent rage spewing vile filth while we ignore the beetch

I guess the mothers who used to say ' just you wait 'til your Father gets home...', would nowadays be put in prison and have their children put into care, and the Father charged with brutality before he even walked in the door-
Can somebody explain to me how a 5 year old child, for example, can even begin to understand respect, or what it means to show it? I believe that 'respect' ,as far as a child can begin to understand, is a mild form of fear, which is healthy IMHO. Gratuitous violence displayed toward a child is heinous, IMHO, but a stinging slap across the back of the knees as punishment for the FIRST real disobedience will obviate the need for more physical punishment until they CAN grasp the concept of 'respect'.
Sure worked for me...and I have neither physical nor mental scars. I understand respect though...AND who deserves it...or not
Nick
Edit to add....once the first punishment has been administered, never mention it, or threaten it. THEY won't forget it, ever, and it remains the 'deadly' silent weapon...in THEIR mind.
Nick

[This message has been edited by fierofetish (edited 02-01-2011).]

quote Originally posted by MidEngineManiac: I dunno..it was a standard punisment for just about everything for me growing up and the only long-lasting effect I can see is I LOVE hot sauces and foods of all varieties. I really AM a walking Franks commercial in that "I put that shet on everything !" (No joking...I have even once tried putting it on a bowl of strawberries. THAT didnt work out so well )

Heh, same here. When I was a kid, if I didn't eat my dinner, my mom would put a spoonful of hot sauce in my food. If I wasn't finished a few minutes later, she would add another spoonful. It actually worked - not because I saw it as punishment, but because I loved that stuff through my food! Now I put hot sauce on everything edible.

quote Originally posted by twofatguys: QFT!! I'm curious as to how hot sauce damages anything permanently. They better ban that stuff from stores if it's that dangerous. Brad

What does permanent damage ability have to do with not selling it?

quote Originally posted by User00013170: Not all of us feel that way about our mothers.

Lol---not all of your mothers would be at thier kids homes for a family BBQ and pysically take the fresh beer out of thier sons hands because she thinks one was enough for the day, and then try and run interferance and physically (even sit on the cooler so it cant be opened) stop him from getting a replacement. Meh...its control issues....she does it to everybody, not just family.

One of these days she will do it to the wrong person at the wrong time and can think about her attitude while recovering from the beating. By my calculations and from what dad has told me, its about 50 years overdue.

My parents used to use refrigerated tobasco sauce* on my younger brother as a punishment when he would talk back. A slap in the mouth wouldn't work - he'd just push back again.

After about a year, he just started putting it on his food and it didn't work anymore.

*(apparently, the cold increases the potency a bit - I tried it a few times and it does seem to kick it up a notch over room temperature but I can't be sure if it isn't just a mental thing. All the feelings of heat and spice coming from something that's nearly ice cold?)

I work with a few CPS social workers. I asked them about the video. They said that hot sauce and a cold show in themselves was not abuse but they would trigger an investigation. If anything else was found, then they would charge her with abuse. The social workers I asked said that from their experience they would expect to find evidence of child abuse if she was doing those things.

The standards of child abuse varies from state to state so the definition of abuse in Alaska appears to be sufficient to charge her with abuse.

quote Originally posted by User00013170: What does permanent damage ability have to do with not selling it?

If it's being marketed as a food product, and causes permanent damage then something needs to be changed. I'm in my 30's, and had hot sauce since it was poured in my mouth as a kid (Tabasco®). I love the stuff, but as far as I can tell there has been no permanent damage from ingesting it for over 30 years.

I don't see any warnings on this bottle either.

All this "it's child abuse" bs gets old. When I was in my teens I was turned in for tickling my niece. Tickling it turns out is child abuse. I never found out who turned me in (I have suspicions) , luckily I was under 18 or I would permanently be marked as a child abuser.
I learned my lesson though. I no longer play with kids, even if they are related. Not worth going to jail for helping my niece or nephew build a lego car, or whatever kids do these days.

Is it a twisted point of view? Perhaps from your point of view. Have you ever been "investigated" by the state regarding child abuse, for tickling? Things like that make you cautious for the rest of your life.

Brad

quote Originally posted by MidEngineManiac: Lol---not all of your mothers would be at thier kids homes for a family BBQ and pysically take the fresh beer out of thier sons hands because she thinks one was enough... its about 50 years overdue.

I know my grandmother would go off on a hate-filled rampage spewing all of her hypocritical bible crap - "because I love you." But, this is the same woman who convinced her lesbian daughter that she'd burn in hell out of Jesus' love and admonishment. Twisted people are there in every family.

My grandma could do it with just the threat of : "Boy--I'll get your good eye!". Dunno what that meant, but I didn't want to find out either.

Personally, I would say no to both the hot sauce and the cold shower. Just my opinion, but there are, I guess, far worse things she could have done. If she had, for instance, forced the kid to eat brussel sprouts, I'd say throw her in a dank and dark dungeon somewhere and forget where it was..

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 02-01-2011).]

Can't watch vid at teh moment, but I guess i don't see it as abuse. People who are against spanking are probably going to be against this too.

If it does damage the kids mouth then it should stop. If the showers are so long the kid gets sick from being chilled they should stop.

But as I mentioned in another thread a while back all kids are different, some positive/negative reinforcement works for some, and not for others. Also the mother should be doing this lovingly and not in anger.

When I was in elementary school there was a girl who still sucked her thumb and her parents put hot sauce on the thumb to stop it.. I remember eating soap a few times for swearing as a kid. Any more when a parent looks crosseyed at their children it is thought to be child abuse. No wonder we have a nation of pansys.

I believe in punishment/discipline, but I think making him hold hot sauce in his mouth is twisted. It just seems like it is designed more to punish him for her satisfaction than to discipline him for his infraction. When I was a kid we would be punished by spanking (with a wooden paddle for minor stuff, switch for more major things) then by grounding (where you basically do homework, house chores, and stare at a wall all day), and by manual labor (moving dirt from a dirt pile to all the low spots on a 5 acre area in Florida to fill in the never ending mud pits, using a shovel and a wheel barrow, clearing woods, that kind of thing). As kids, we thought it was all horrible torture, but really it was all reasonable for our infractions. It was all designed to instill certain principles in us or to drive home points, without causing permanent damage or ruining our childhoods. I guess my point is, I'm not some hippy-never punish your kids-spoil them and let them do whatever they want with no consequences type, but I still think the hot sauce was twisted.

quote Originally posted by TommyRocker: I believe in punishment/discipline, but I think making him hold hot sauce in his mouth is twisted. It just seems like it is designed more to punish him for her satisfaction than to discipline him for his infraction. When I was a kid we would be punished by spanking (with a wooden paddle for minor stuff, switch for more major things) then by grounding (where you basically do homework, house chores, and stare at a wall all day), and by manual labor (moving dirt from a dirt pile to all the low spots on a 5 acre area in Florida to fill in the never ending mud pits, using a shovel and a wheel barrow, clearing woods, that kind of thing). As kids, we thought it was all horrible torture, but really it was all reasonable for our infractions. It was all designed to instill certain principles in us or to drive home points, without causing permanent damage or ruining our childhoods. I guess my point is, I'm not some hippy-never punish your kids-spoil them and let them do whatever they want with no consequences type, but I still think the hot sauce was twisted.

You took the words right out of my mouth!

As a kid, I got my butt hit with a wooden spoon or a switch time to time from babysitters but never my Dad (he raised myself and my brother alone). All Dad had to do was raise his voice and that got me in line but then again I really wasn't a bad kid and I didn't get in trouble much.

After watching this video though, I absolutely think that it's abuse. Hands down, no question. It's one thing to constructively discipline your children but forcing them to hold hot sauce in their mouth or stand in a cold shower is a bit much.

Some of you are saying that it's not abuse because it doesn't "harm" the child....just because the kid isn't going to die from a cold shower or hot sauce does not make it right by ANY means. The way I see it...she may as well be water boarding her kid!!

Ugh, I hope they throw the book at her!

quote Originally posted by Boondawg:

What scares me the most about this video is that the mother comes across as some control freak psycho. Just giving the kid a regular spanking without all the dramatics would've been a whole lot more sane than having this b*tch yelling over and over about "consequences" (while doing all the rest of those weird things).

I wouldn't be surprised if this woman is completely dominated by her husband and this is her way (in her own mind) of reacquiring some power.

Some of you might argue that this is nothing compared to a severe beating. That may be true, but sometimes the most hurtful longlasting scars are those which are never seen. My girlfriend is a shrink. She deals with adults who were abused as children all the time. These people are a mess. Some of the stories would curl your toes.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 02-01-2011).]

waterboarding? really? ummm no at least hot sauce is ment to be eaten, the soap many of us had to endure was not.... and a cold shower? it seems mild compared to a switch or paddle... I realize I'm no expert, but with almost 40 years of scouting and helping shape hundereds maybe thousands of young boys into men. it was ALWAYS the kids whose parents were "SOFT" on their kids who turned to drugs or went "wrong"...

=todd=

I'm sure the fact that they are playing "child abuse" music in the background doesn't help.

I think the punishments are "creative" if you will... which makes it rather abnormal, but other than the fact that the lady is agressively psycho while she does it, is what makes it a bit odd.

My parents beat the **** out of me to within an inch of my life regularly when I did something wrong. On their last trip to Egypt, they picked up some camel whips for us. Once, it was the only thing they had handy... that sucked. They stopped when the leather tip came off the wire cable and they realized we were bleeding. Hahah... never once have I felt that I was abused though. I mean, these are the same parents that spent $25,000 a year for me to go to school all through elementary school and middle school. These are also the same parents that bought all my clothes, got involved with everything I did, and made sure that we had the best opportunities growing up.

I have a daughter, so I doubt that I'll ever, ever have to resort to anything physical... I plan to discaplin her by taking away privledges and stuff. I think it's important for the parents to explain WHY their actions are bad, beyond the fact that it makes mommy and daddy mad. But then again, my daughter is only 2 years old... so what do I know, I'm just starting.

My daughter is too young to discaplin, but when she really gets into a temper tantrum, I'll leave her in the family room where she can scream it out for a few minutes, or if she's in the high chair, I simply turn her around so she can face the wall in "Time Out."

------------------
Todd,
2008 Jeep Patriot Limited 4x2
2002 Ford Explorer Sport 2dr 4x2
2002 Ford Crown Victoria LX
1987 Pontiac Fiero SE / V6
1973 Volkswagen Type-2 Transporter

I don't believe it's fair to judge the home environment based on this short video. I don't like her or how she handles the boy. I would not call it child abuse based on just the short video. Surely a cold shower or hot sauce alone isn't enough to put it into the abuse category. People take cold showers and eat hot sauce.

Discipline is supposed to be unpleasant.

The other thing to be learned here is NOT to allow anyone to take a video of you disciplining your child.

quote Originally posted by phonedawgz: The other thing to be learned here is NOT to allow anyone to take a video of you disciplining your child.

She had her young daughter do it.
It may also be noteworthy to mention that the boy is a russian adoptee.
If I remember right, a while back a woman got fed up with hers and tried to put both of them on a flight back to russia alone with a note pinned to them; "I can't handle them. Take them back."

quote Originally posted by Patrick: What scares me the most about this video is that the mother comes across as some control freak psycho. Just giving the kid a regular spanking without all the dramatics would've been a whole lot more sane than having this b*tch yelling over and over about "consequences" (while doing all the rest of those weird things). I wouldn't be surprised if this woman is completely dominated by her husband and this is her way (in her own mind) of reacquiring some power. Some of you might argue that this is nothing compared to a severe beating. That may be true, but sometimes the most hurtful longlasting scars are those which are never seen. My girlfriend is a shrink. She deals with adults who were abused as children all the time. These people are a mess. Some of the stories would curl your toes.

I lost the respect a boy should have for his Dad, my 11 year old son because of fits of rage I use to have similar to that sans the physical torture. I would say I stopped around 4 or 5 years ago but the damage is done, I asked him to not hate me because I could die and he will never forgive himself. He's my only boy out of 5 and he's in the middle but the 10, 11 and 13 year old are shell shock from my damaging temperament. The only ones I never hit or yelled at are the 32, 7 and 10 year old. I try so hard to reverse this and I can see it will be a life long hate of me he will have, even though I am my dad and I never held the hell he put me through against him.

She has a picture of Jebus on the wall....makes it all ok right?

quote Originally posted by Falcon Fiero: She has a picture of Jebus on the wall....makes it all ok right?

WWJD?

Caliente!