Fellas,

The Florida judge (Judge Vincent), backed up the earlier Virginia appeals court ruling, in that states federal state court, that Obamacare is UNCONSTITUTIONAL l!!!

Cordially,
Kevin

p.s. I KNEW the liberal's could not force America into socialism

[This message has been edited by kevin (edited 01-31-2011).]

quote Originally posted by kevin: Fellas, The Florida high court backed up the earlier Virginia appeals court ruling, in that states federal state court, that Obamacare is UNCONSTITUTIONAL l!!! Cordially, Kevin p.s. I KNEW the liberal's could not force America into socialism

Judge Roger Vinson, a Reagan appointee serving in Pensacola, Florida, ruled that key components of the law are unconstitutional and that the entire law "must be declared void."

In the decision, Vinson writes:

"... I must reluctantly conclude that Congress exceeded the bounds of its authority in passing the Act with the individual mandate. That is not to say, of course, that Congress is without power to address the problems and inequities in our health care system. The health care market is more than one sixth of the national economy, and without doubt Congress has the power to reform and regulate this market. That has not been disputed in this case. The principal dispute has been about how Congress chose to exercise that power here.

Because the individual mandate is unconstitutional and not severable, the entire Act must be declared void."

Finally! The people's voice is heard!

That is what happens when lobbyists write the bills and the politicians rubber stamp them without reading them.
And this was all supposed to change when the constitutional scholarly one took over.

I am very relieved.

There are some issues with the health care industry, and the new Republican Congress should act quickly to fix them, but I am very relieved that the constitution has prevailed this time.

------------------
Todd,
2008 Jeep Patriot Limited 4x2
2002 Ford Explorer Sport 2dr 4x2
2002 Ford Crown Victoria LX
1987 Pontiac Fiero SE / V6
1973 Volkswagen Type-2 Transporter

quote Originally posted by avengador1: Finally! The people's voice is heard!

The ruling was made in your state and a guy in CA beats you to the post.
What happened?

quote Originally posted by avengador1: Finally! The people's voice is heard!

Just like it was during the presidental elections!

Constitutionally, this was indeed the right desision.

quote Originally posted by avengador1: Finally! The people's voice is heard!

While I like this decision, I would never characterize any court decision as "the people's voice". The courts are at best twice removed from the people since the judges appointed by the President who is the one actually voted into office.

The only time that I would consider anything as the people's voice is when the voters directly vote for something or some one. What those elected officials do after taking office may not be what the people who voted them there actually wanted.

quote The ruling was made in your state and a guy in CA beats you to the post. What happened?

I wasn't listenig to the news when it happened.

[This message has been edited by avengador1 (edited 01-31-2011).]

I am 1/2 happy, 1/2 concerned.
the 1/2 happy is - the problem with US Health care is NOT the health care - it is the insurance companies - and, being forced to buy into the problem SUCKS
1/2 concerned - now what? are the insurance companies gonna make things even worse now??

quote Originally posted by kevin: Fellas, The Florida high court backed up the earlier Virginia appeals court ruling, in that states federal state court, that Obamacare is UNCONSTITUTIONAL l!!! Cordially, Kevin p.s. I KNEW the liberal's could not force America into socialism

After the SCOTUS rules, it will give BO something to pout about in his next SOTU campaign speech.
The genius of our founders rings true!

[This message has been edited by partfiero (edited 01-31-2011).]

quote Originally posted by Doug85GT: While I like this decision, I would never characterize any court decision as "the people's voice". The courts are at best twice removed from the people since the judges appointed by the President who is the one actually voted into office. The only time that I would consider anything as the people's voice is when the voters directly vote for something or some one. What those elected officials do after taking office may not be what the people who voted them there actually wanted.

I can't remember if I voted for this guy, but I'm quite sure that the members of this Florida High Court were elected by the voters of Florida. I thought that only the members of the Federal Supreme Court were nominated by the President of the United States, and then appointed by Congress (if approved).

So, this guy was voted in by the people...
------------------
Todd,
2008 Jeep Patriot Limited 4x2
2002 Ford Explorer Sport 2dr 4x2
2002 Ford Crown Victoria LX
1987 Pontiac Fiero SE / V6
1973 Volkswagen Type-2 Transporter

[This message has been edited by 82-T/A [At Work] (edited 01-31-2011).]

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: are the insurance companies gonna make things even worse now??

The government run variety would have made it ten times worse than anything the private sector would be allowed to get away with.
Sure there will be new regulations, but they better be a bit better thought out than all of the piss poor regulations passed under the current group.

quote Originally posted by avengador1: Finally! The people's voice is heard!

...and will be ignored.

quote ...and will be ignored.

Elections are next year and the voters will remember if they choose to do that. They better have learned their lesson from last year's elections or they will get a repeat of them next year.

It will again be appealed--probably up to SCOTUS.

Next in the path--11th Circuit- Atlanta and 4th Circuit- Richmond.

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 01-31-2011).]

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: I am 1/2 happy, 1/2 concerned. the 1/2 happy is - the problem with US Health care is NOT the health care - it is the insurance companies - and, being forced to buy into the problem SUCKS 1/2 concerned - now what? are the insurance companies gonna make things even worse now??

Pyrthian,

I am happy you are (finally) realizing that you can be "happy", like the other 68% of other American's, in that being 'forced to buy' into health insurance SUCKS. Only Obama and his liberal minions think that socialized health insurance is good. Welcome Now, after we finally conquered this issue, we are going to next focus on your hate for insurance companies. What is so evil about the ten of thousands of working American's who provide safety, assurance and investment income? These companies all do business in the United States---legally! I cannot understand how they are going to make what they do now, worse, in the future?

Cordially,

Kevin

TWO for, two against.
Idiot insurance industry puppets.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabotage
So now millions of dollars will be spent by both sides (our money) and the Supreme Court will finally say its OK.
Gawd, youse guys are so predictably gullible.
Do you REALLY think the administration didnt forsee this happening?

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[This message has been edited by NEPTUNE (edited 01-31-2011).]

The rumored liberal's "fix" for the wording the judge based his ruling on, is to change the section that reuires everyone to purchase or be enrolled in a healthcare plan, to wording that offers the plan, set a time limit for enrolling, then anyone who wants in at a time after the window closes, would have to pay a higher premium. But that too, will likely be challenged as unconstitutional, as it also penalizes paasive citizens for not engaging in commerce, and even takes it a step beyond, by penalizing them for not engaging in commerce at a specific set time and date.

And that's the key--"passive citizens". Obamacare is attempting to levy a penalty on someone who is simply breathing in air and exhaling, for not engaging in commerce. It's erquivilent to mandating (with a fine for failure to comply) everyone buy liability auro insurance, whether they drive a vehicle or not.

quote Originally posted by NEPTUNE: Idiot insurance industry puppets. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabotage So now millions of dollars will be spent by both sides (our money) and the Supreme Court will finally say its OK. Gawd, youse guys are so predictably gullible. Do you REALLY think the administration didnt forsee this happening?

Says the guy who said the Tea Party was dead and Republicans would never be able to buy a vote again.
What was that about a year ago you made that prediction?
So I will believe you on this as well.

quote Originally posted by NEPTUNE: Idiot insurance industry puppets. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabotage So now millions of dollars will be spent by both sides (our money) and the Supreme Court will finally say its OK. Gawd, youse guys are so predictably gullible. Do you REALLY think the administration didnt forsee this happening?

Correct me if I wrong, but it appears that you consider anyone not in favor of Obama Care to be an idiot and an insurance industry puppet?
Those would most likely be the same folks that are so predictably gullible?
Then, you ask those same folks that you apparently hold in total dis-respect if they think? I assume this was meant as a querie as to the expectations of one side of the aisle versus the other but does leave room for one to wonder if you are really questioning if they actually think.

I thought you smart guys were gonna start playing nice. BTW, your little sign and it's intent is not lost on us dummies. I believe it was some of you smart guys that wanted to tone down the political overtones and yet................ Maybe, just maybe if you presented your case in favor, a civil discussion could take place. Isn't that what you smart guys were hollering about not to long ago after the Phoenix shootings? Oh well, never mind. I don't mind the aggressive behavior, just don't get ticked when it's returned.

[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 01-31-2011).]

quote Originally posted by NEPTUNE: Idiot insurance industry puppets. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabotage So now millions of dollars will be spent by both sides (our money) and the Supreme Court will finally say its OK. Gawd, youse guys are so predictably gullible. Do you REALLY think the administration didnt forsee this happening?

Actually, yeah.

I think the total is now 26 states saying its unconstitutional. Im glad were finally putting Barak in his place. Maybe he could go on vacation with Mobarak.....Somewhere south of Austrailia.

quote Originally posted by Rallaster: Actually, yeah.

Yes, they did see it coming (counsel wrote the bill and final Act) and were very careful in their wording to try to attempt to circumvent constitutional scrutiny, by not connecting key parts of the bill to other parts. Judiciaries, have seen thru the disquise tho--or 1/2 of them have. The voters however, saw thru it in much larger #s and will continue to do so.

quote Originally posted by blackrams: Correct me if I wrong, but it appears that you consider anyone not in favor of Obama Care to be an idiot and an insurance industry puppet? Those would most likely be the same folks that are so predictably gullible? Then, you ask those same folks that you apparently hold in total dis-respect if they think? I assume this was meant as a querie as to the expectations of one side of the aisle versus the other but does leave room for one to wonder if you are really questioning if they actually think. I thought you smart guys were gonna start playing nice. BTW, your little sign and it's intent is not lost on us dummies. I believe it was some of you smart guys that wanted to tone down the political overtones and yet................ Maybe, just maybe if you presented your case in favor, a civil discussion could take place. Isn't that what you smart guys were hollering about not to long ago after the Phoenix shootings? Oh well, never mind. I don't mind the aggressive behavior, just don't get ticked when it's returned.

Oh c'mon now. You know that there's only certain groups who're allowed to utter the political equivalent of "nyu-uh" and it serve as a valid argument.

------------------
Whade' "The Duck Formerly Known As Wade" Duck
'88 Ferrario
'84 Indy (In A Museum)

quote Originally posted by maryjane: It will again be appealed--probably up to SCOTUS.

Cause for concern. I also figure there will be an appeal.

(If nothing else, Obama is too proud to take "no" - or in this case, "hell no"- for an answer.)

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 01-31-2011).]

So, a Republican judge rules it unconstitutional-no surprise. Now for the appeal and onto the Supreme Court. It's not over, it's just at step number one.

Just like I've been saying since this monstrosity passed.

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: I am 1/2 happy, 1/2 concerned. the 1/2 happy is - the problem with US Health care is NOT the health care - it is the insurance companies - and, being forced to buy into the problem SUCKS 1/2 concerned - now what? are the insurance companies gonna make things even worse now??

Time to hold the Republicans to their word that we get real reform. If not, vote 'em out and start over, repeat until they get it right. Oh, and feel free to stop by the "Republican Watch" thread. It's "put up or shut up" time for the R's.

Let's not get overjoyed! It is STILL active law until the SCOTUS rules.

quote Originally posted by whadeduck: Oh c'mon now. You know that there's only certain groups who're allowed to utter the political equivalent of "nyu-uh" and it serve as a valid argument.

Whade,
Does the term smartass mean anything to ya?

Ron

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: I am 1/2 happy, 1/2 concerned. the 1/2 happy is - the problem with US Health care is NOT the health care - it is the insurance companies - and, being forced to buy into the problem SUCKS 1/2 concerned - now what? are the insurance companies gonna make things even worse now??

I actually agree with Pyrthian. The big issue with insurance companies, auto companies, energy companies, etc, is they can't be honest and have integrity. Because the primary objective of a company is making money, many many companies think the ends justify the means and do whatever they can to make more of it. Whether it is adding fluff to their meat, hiring illegals, dumping toxic waste, getting a monopoly, utilizing oversees sweatshops, etc, a much larger portion of the business world is corrupt than it should be. If true capitalists REALLY wanted the government out of their lives, all they would need to do is play by the rules to begin with.

All that being said, I still pick corrupt capitalistic megacorporations over corrupt oppressive socialistic governments, because it is much much easier to avoid a corporation in your life than it is to avoid a government in your life. The real problem is that humans find compromise extremely difficult, so when government is called in to "do something", they heavy hand it. When unions are formed to "protect the plight of the worker", they soon become as bad as they company they were fighting against. If the insurance companies could self-regulate (which will NEVER happen), the government could be forced by the will of the people to stay out of it. At least in imaginationland.

quote Originally posted by texasfiero: Let's not get overjoyed! It is STILL active law until the SCOTUS rules.

Thank you.

Cordially, NEPTUNE

OR, until & unless the next ruling judiciary chooses to do what the others have not. So far all 4 ruling judges have elected to allow the law to remain in effect while the appeals process and lawsuits wind their way thru the system. I know of nothing other than precedence that says they have to.

quote Originally posted by Flamberge: All that being said, I still pick corrupt capitalistic megacorporations over corrupt oppressive socialistic governments, because it is much much easier to avoid a corporation in your life than it is to avoid a government in your life.

BINGO! We have a winner.

quote Originally posted by fierobear: According to one news report, the judge didn't strike down the law completely because it doesn't go into full effect until 2014. That should give plenty of time for a SCOTUS ruling, repeal, piece by piece dismantling, or a combination of those.

They could spend untold $billions$ between then and now.

quote Originally posted by maryjane: They could spend untold $billions$ between then and now.

And this makes all the tea baggers happy, because?????
That money comes from you. And me.
Are you guys getting a fat check from the insurance company every month for furthering their interests?
How do I get my name on the free money list?
Hell, I could be persuaded to sell out for a few bucks.
I'm almost 60, I don't have that long to live anyway...
Especially if I get sick.




cordially, NEPTUNE.

PP.S:
You love tearing this down, but what can/will you build in its place?
The status quo?

Thats what I thought.

[This message has been edited by NEPTUNE (edited 01-31-2011).]

I'd rather put up with the status quo than to settle for this cluster f*ck of a law.