So as part of the inspection process, it was discovered that my home has polybutylene pipe. Apparently this pipe likes to spring a leak, and was under two class action lawsuits and is no longer sold in the US.

Being that the home was constructed by Maronda Homes, I'm curious what their liabilities are.

I'm also curious about your experience with it, what you've heard, etc. I may not be able to get homeowners insurance until it is replaced with PVC, copper, etc.

Wow I'd never heard of the stuff so did a quick google search. Seems like a mess to deal with. The majority of the problems being chemicals in the water breaking the pipes down from the inside. Not sure if you know about it but if you go to replace it all might check into PEX. Awesome stuff IMHO.

[This message has been edited by Silentassassin185 (edited 01-30-2011).]

It's a mess as you already know, and I'm not sure, that there may a law that says it's presence should have been disclosed before you signed/closed to buy the place.

AFAIK, the class action suits have all been settled. Dunno if you can institute further claims or not, but you have about a $4k or more job on your hands, depending where the lines all run. There will be drywall work, paint, carpentry and of course the plumbing. If the water lines run under or thru the slab, I don't know what they do, but I have seen pics of a house where they came in, ripped up the floor and jackhammered thru the slab to fix an underslab sewer leak. And, I believe maybe Texas Fiero (Ray) had a similar problem some years back.

What a shame--that home looks like it is perfect other than that.

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 01-30-2011).]

quote Originally posted by maryjane: If you haven't closed, and still really want the property, get a couple of quotes to have the repair work done and have that amt taken off the purchase price if you can.

I haven't closed yet - however, the home is cheap enough that even with the repairs, it's still worth it. Due to it being a foreclosure, it's being sold on an as-is basis... meaning either I accept the contract as-is, or submit a new offer. By submitting a new offer, I subject myself to other buyers' offers as well (which due to the price - a steal - would put me in a poor position, potentially leading to a bidding war)

Ah so. Well, best of luck with it--you do have a nice place there.

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: So as part of the inspection process, it was discovered that my home has polybutylene pipe. Apparently this pipe likes to spring a leak, and was under two class action lawsuits and is no longer sold in the US. Being that the home was constructed by Maronda Homes, I'm curious what their liabilities are. I'm also curious about your experience with it, what you've heard, etc. I may not be able to get homeowners insurance until it is replaced with PVC, copper, etc.

I totally agree with Don. Unless that house is "to die for," I think I'd look elsewhere. PEX is good stuff but the first batches of it tended to spring leaks too.

I plumbed our house with copper but the dog dish, sinks, bathtub get green oxidation from the copper and have to be cleaned at least weekly. My wife wondered aloud what it is doing to our bodies?

I'd get the seller to replace the plumbing as a condition for the sale. We're looking at houses in Oregon and PEX is universal out here plus my infloor radiant heat is PEX so it is a reliable product today. I pressured tested my heating system to 120lbs for five days as part of the inspection and all was well.

An "as-is" declaration does not discharge the seller's duty to disclose defects in the property. You can still ask them for a price concession based on their failure to disclose a problem with significant remediation costs.

The thing is that this is a foreclosed house. Ryan would be buying it from a bank and not a person. In PA there are laws that state that businesses and banks do not have sign disclosure statements beacuse they do not have knowledge of the property.

quote Originally posted by Marvin McInnis: An "as-is" declaration does not discharge the seller's duty to disclose defects in the property. You can still ask them for a price concession based on their failure to disclose a problem with significant remediation costs.

quote Originally posted by Hank is Here: The thing is that this is a foreclosed house. Ryan would be buying it from a bank and not a person. In PA there are laws that state that businesses and banks do not have sign disclosure statements beacuse they do not have knowledge of the property.

So in this case, Ignorance is an excuse?

Brad

quote Originally posted by Hank is Here: The thing is that this is a foreclosed house. Ryan would be buying it from a bank and not a person. In PA there are laws that state that businesses and banks do not have sign disclosure statements beacuse they do not have knowledge of the property.

I believe that is the case here as well. The asterisk here is if they had an inspection done at some point in the past, they would need to disclose what they found, but I think my inspection was the first.

edit: seeing that Maronda built the home, presumably the specs are listed *somewhere*, and polybutylene is listed as the material used for plumbing... THAT may be a point of leverage, because the bank should know and have access to that information.

[This message has been edited by ryan.hess (edited 01-30-2011).]

quote Originally posted by Hank is Here: The thing is that this is a foreclosed house. Ryan would be buying it from a bank and not a person. In PA there are laws that state that businesses and banks do not have sign disclosure statements beacuse they do not have knowledge of the property.

What if the house is later found to be unsafe due to radon gas? Couldn't Ryan ask for an independent home inspection and force the bank to either fix the problem or lower the price? When we sold our house, the buyer ordered an independent inspection despite our disclosure statements. The inspection revealed little that wasn't already on our statement.

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: I believe that is the case here as well. The asterisk here is if they had an inspection done at some point in the past, they would need to disclose what they found, but I think my inspection was the first. edit: seeing that Maronda built the home, presumably the specs are listed *somewhere*, and polybutylene is listed as the material used for plumbing... THAT may be a point of leverage, because the bank should know and have access to that information.

Maybe. The way paper was sold/traded between different mortage places the last 10-15 years, the "paper trail" may have been lost, unless that bank has held the paper from day one.

I own a business in the water treatment industry and find gray polybutylene pipe in many older homes in PA, DE & MD. I also worked in the plumbing supply trade during the time they were recalling that type of tubing. During most installations the plumbing contractor would not read the installation material and run the tubing where sunlight would contact it. This tubing is not sun resistant and will not resist chlorine contents above 1.0 PPM for long periods of time. This was all explained in the literature that was packaged with the tubing. We have replaced it with the new Pex tubing sold today. You can find a crimping tool on Ebay for about $120.00 that will do 3/8", 1/2", 3/4", & 1" we did.

starlightcoupe The problem with the blue green stains are copper deposits because of acid water. To correct this a good water analysis with a properly sized neutralizer will stop the stains. The copper can also make you loose your hair on lower levels and is a health concern.

Earl

quote Originally posted by aqua-man: starlightcoupe . The copper can also make you loose your hair on lower levels and is a health concern. Earl

You mean his pubes will fall out??? I wouldn't know one way or another and ain't gonna ask but I don't think sarlightcoupe is the manscaping type...........

My experience with PB was bad, real bad. Exploding water sprays in the ways, the whole nine yards. The problem was that the plastic fittings became stressed due to improper compression on the crimp rings and then the chlorine attacked it. Every single failure I had was in the fittings, not the tube. I fixed it by replacing all the fittings with copper fittings, still using the crimp ring system.

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: Every single failure I had was in the fittings, not the tube. I fixed it by replacing all the fittings with copper fittings, still using the crimp ring system.

I've heard similar from a few plumbers.... The pipe never bursts, it's the fittings that leak.

This home supposedly has the copper crimp fittings, so it "may" be okay. Well, at least better than average PB.