And thereby their primary goal being to reproduce?

Does cancer have any of these traits?

I think the primary question here should be:

Are virus's alive?

Here is where the deep philosophical debate begins. What constitutes life?

[This message has been edited by Rallaster (edited 01-10-2011).]

If a virus didn't reproduce it wouldn't survive.

You don't get a virus without actually getting the virus cells in you.

Cancer isn't a virus and you don't get 'cancer cells' from someone else and have them infect you.

Cancer ends up killing itself if it kills the 'host'.

The virus lives on if it's virus cells reach someone else before the 'host' dies.

However most virus's don't kill the host. You just pick them up and keep them till you die.

Cancer has not been found to be transmittable between humans (yet), except in utero. The "causes" of cancer in certain types, has been proven to be transmitable. human papillomavirus is the cause of a very high % of cervical cancer worldwide. Mothers, can develope, then pass acute lymphoblastic leukemia to their offspring. I read of a case where a mother gve birth to a healthy baby, then was diagnosed with acute lymphoblastic leukemia, died soon afterward, and at age 11 months, the baby was likewise diagnosed.

quote Genetic analysis of the tumour cells in the baby demonstrated that the tumour cells were not from the child herself, but rather maternal leukemia cells that had crossed the placenta during pregnancy or childbirth and had taken up residency in their new host

Then of course, we have all heard of the cancer that is killing Tasmainan Devils in Australia.

quote 3. In a medical mystery well known to Australians, the population of Tasmanian Devils has been crashing as a fatal facial tumour has been spreading across the population. The way the fatal tumours have spread steadily across Tasmania and sparing Devils on smaller islands first suggested a new infectious disease that causes cancer, similar to HPV in humans. However a suprising study demonstrated that the cancer was directly spreading from one Devil to the next after having spontaneously developed in a single individual. These scrappy little monsters attack each other on first sight, biting each other's faces. The cancer resides in the salivary glands and gets transmitted by facial bites to the new Devil. Unfortunately for Tasmanian Devils, a genetic bottleneck left all Devils so genetically similar that they are, for immunological purposes, all identical twins. This means that the cancer cells transmitted from one Devil to another through biting are able to grow and kill Devil after Devil. The cancer from a single individual has already killed 50% of all Devils, and it is possible that we will have to wait until the cancer burns out by killing all potential hosts before reintroducing the Devil from the protected island populations.

My identical twin brother and I have been part of several long term studies of twins, usually an interview once/year. Started in 1992. I just completed a lengthy one last month via telepone. I don't participate in all of them, and am paid for my time, and they are far ranging in scope. One of the things that has come out of these studies is the distinct possibility that normally non-infectious disease being much more transmitable between identical twins--especially in non-adults. Even adults, if they maintain similar lifestyles, and live in the same geographical area, have a much higher chance of being infected by their twin than non-twins do from their siblings. This includes virus and bacteria caused infections.

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 01-11-2011).]

The T4 Virus:


The T4 Phage initiates infection of an E. coli bacterium by recognizing cell surface receptors of the host with its long tail fibers (LTF). A recognition signal is sent through the LTFs to the baseplate. This unravels the short tail fibers (STF) that bind irreversibly to the E. coli cell surface. The baseplate changes conformation and the tail sheath contracts causing GP5 at the end of the tail tube to puncture the outer membrane of the cell. The lysozyme domain of GP5 is activated and degrades the periplasmic peptidoglycan layer. The remaining part of the membrane is degraded and, DNA from the head of the Phage can travel through the tail tube and enter the E. coli.

Cancer is like a cell with no 'off' switch. A virus is more like a sel replicating hypo then a little living critter...

But everything seems to want to 'continue' itself, to some degree...

[This message has been edited by billpapps (edited 01-11-2011).]

quote Originally posted by FieroRumor: Cancer is like a cell with no 'off' switch. A virus is more like a sel replicating hypo then a little living critter... But everything seems to want to 'continue' itself, to some degree...

yes, that is what I thought as well - cancer is your own cells not working right. but - cancer is also a generic term.....

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: The T4 Virus:

Looks familiar. Did Sid create the T4 virus?



Jim

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: yes, that is what I thought as well - cancer is your own cells not working right. but - cancer is also a generic term.....

Correct, everyone has 'cancer', it is just in 'healthy' people the immune system keeps it under control, it is only when these bad cells over come your immune system that you get 'cancer'. It just so happens that some lifestyles practices accelerate this process (but not always). But this is also why it is so hard to kill as it is part of your bodies original cells (that have 'mutated'). Viruses are easier to target as they are a foreign body.

But to answer the first question, yes they are driven to survive, hence the ability for a particular virus to become immune to drug treatments.

[This message has been edited by Mickey_Moose (edited 01-11-2011).]

Yep. As I understand it cancer comes from you, it is you, it is your cells going awry. Some say caused by damage done by "free radicals". .Seems it's not a virus at all.

I thought virus (viri?) basically germs were living things. Technically maybe not, as they thru their entire existence need a host.

I found this:
"Viruses are not living things. Viruses are complicated assemblies of molecules, including proteins, nucleic acids, lipids, and carbohydrates, but on their own they can do nothing until they enter a living cell. Without cells, viruses would not be able to multiply. Therefore, viruses are not living things."
http://www.virology.ws/2004...are-viruses-living/#

This might throw you for a loop. An infectious form of cancer was found in Tasmanian Devils. It is not too much of a stretch to believe that some day there might be one that affects humans.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...acial_tumour_disease

This is interesting it illudes to a possibility that viruses and bacteris can cause freeradicals, which in tern are, or become cancer. Also explains what Free radicals are.

I have little knowledge on this stuff and am learning too.

“How Free Radicals are Formed
Normally, bonds dont split in a way that leaves a molecule with an odd, unpaired electron. But when weak bonds split, free radicals are formed. Free radicals are very unstable and react quickly with other compounds, trying to capture the needed electron to gain stability. Generally, free radicals attack the nearest stable molecule, "stealing" its electron. When the "attacked" molecule loses its electron, it becomes a free radical itself, beginning a chain reaction. Once the process is started, it can cascade, finally resulting in the disruption of a living cell.
Some free radicals arise normally during metabolism. Sometimes the body?s immune system?s cells purposefully create them to neutralize viruses and bacteria. However, environmental factors such as pollution, radiation, cigarette smoke and herbicides can also spawn free radicals.
Normally, the body can handle free radicals, but if antioxidants are unavailable, or if the free-radical production becomes excessive, damage can occur. Of particular importance is that free radical damage accumulates with age.”
http://www.healthchecksystems.com/antioxid.htm

quote Originally posted by Doug85GT: This might throw you for a loop. An infectious form of cancer was found in Tasmanian Devils. It is not too much of a stretch to believe that some day there might be one that affects humans. http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...acial_tumour_disease

3rd reply from the top.

quote Originally posted by maryjane: 3. In a medical mystery well known to Australians, the population of Tasmanian Devils has been crashing as a fatal facial tumour has been spreading across the population. The way the fatal tumours have spread steadily across Tasmania and sparing Devils on smaller islands first suggested a new infectious disease that causes cancer, similar to HPV in humans. However a suprising study demonstrated that the cancer was directly spreading from one Devil to the next after having spontaneously developed in a single individual. These scrappy little monsters attack each other on first sight, biting each other's faces. The cancer resides in the salivary glands and gets transmitted by facial bites to the new Devil. Unfortunately for Tasmanian Devils, a genetic bottleneck left all Devils so genetically similar that they are, for immunological purposes, all identical twins. This means that the cancer cells transmitted from one Devil to another through biting are able to grow and kill Devil after Devil. The cancer from a single individual has already killed 50% of all Devils, and it is possible that we will have to wait until the cancer burns out by killing all potential hosts before reintroducing the Devil from the protected island populations.

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: Are Viruses driven to survive? And thereby their primary goal being to reproduce? Does cancer have any of these traits?

Sounds like your question is.. do they think, or...do they have a will?

Interesting stuff, I found these:

Q:
"I'm writing a paper on whether viruses are alive or not and I need an explanation on whether they have/don't have homeostasis. Also, Do they respond/adapt to the environment?"

A:
"No viruses do not have homeostasis. They have no cellular activities because they are not made of cells. Viruses do not respond or adapt to the environment. Any changes in the viruses are brought about by the host cells that make the new copies of the virus.When science says that viruses evolve, it is really the host cell that makes the changes in the virus. So the virus type accumulates these changes, but it doesn't make the changes itself."

---

Q:
Do Viruses have a sex life? what sort of diets do they each have or does it depend on what sort of diseases they are causing. what about brains do they have brains??)So there are no males and females - they are all clones??? But they do mutate don't they - like get resistant to antibiotics? And if they aren't eating then what are they up to. Are they aliens???


A:
Well, viruses aren't really alive in the sense that we think about most things being alive. They don't eat, they don't think, they actually don't have any "bodily functions" so to speak. In a sense, they are really genetic code packaged in a way that makes it easy to get inside and infect cells. The structures on the outside of the package act like keys to doors in the cells membrane, giving the virus entrance. Once the virus can get inside the inner layer of the cell, it acts in a way to get the cell to produce more of the virus. Basically it hijacks the cell and turns on the machinery of the cell in a way that causes the cell to inadvertently create more virus. After a while, cells usually lyse (sort of like exploding) and spill more virus out into the bloodstream.


A:
"A virus I guess is just a virus. It's not living...so...yeah...

There are six characteristics of a living organism:
1. Metabolism and Energy Use
2. Organization
3. Homeostatis (able to keep body internally consistent)
4. Growth, Development, and Reproduction
5. Irritability and Adaption

A virus does not use energy (aka does not eat), therefore it is not classified as a living organism. All living organisms MUST HAVE ALL 5 TRAITS."

------
...

This all reminds me of the movie short circuit, wea re all saying "INPUT! NEED INPUT!"