Before I retired I worked -computer hardware engineer- for a while at the Pentagon and had a room not far form the helo pad. After a while I realized that I kept seeing pretty much the same faces walking up and down the corridor to the pad. Also, on my way up 95 I noticed the same choppers -blackhawks and other big birds flying towards the Pentagon each morning. Appreantly we -us tax payers- believe our military brass should not have to sit in rush our traffic everyday. Instead they just drive -or get driven- to the nearest miltary base such as Quantico and get on the morning helo to Pentagon. Must be nice huh! It's not like it cost much to operate a big chopper, yeah right! BTW: This has been a way of life there for some time.

Now that you mention it, weren't these the guys that whined about having to fly Pelosi around? What, it took up some of THEIR aircraft?

It's not YOUR aircraft, general. It's MINE. I think I speak for all of us when I suggest you go buy your own dang car and drive to work like the rest of us.

Actually, makes perfect sense to me. They already have the assets, the crew's job is flying. I guess if you would rather have the folks that are doing the planning, developing intelligence, tactics and such stuck in traffic, that's ok by me. I'd rather them be at their jobs, doing what they do best.

Ron

[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 12-21-2010).]

IF the pilots need a certain amount of flight time and this is a way for them to get it, then while it probably looks bad, it certainly makes sense.

Regarding the guys being flown, I'm sure they have tons of confidence in the equipment and pilots. And this may just be my bias and not based on fact, but I thought helicopters generally weren't as safe as airplanes, and I would just as soon drive.

quote Originally posted by frontal lobe: but I thought helicopters generally weren't as safe as airplanes,

Then maybe generals shouldn't fly in them. What about helos majorly, or presidentially?



Blackrams flew helos, and, while he may have some normal human frailties, being a fool doesn't appear to be one of them. AFAIK, anyway.

quote Originally posted by blackrams: Actually, makes perfect sense to me. They already have the assets, the crew's job is flying. I guess if you would rather have the folks that are doing the planning, developing intelligence, tactics and such stuck in traffic, that's ok by me. I'd rather them be at their jobs, doing what they do best. Ron

Right, id also rather pay them for using their experience, not sitting in traffic. While it *seems* excessive, it really makes sense at a certain point.

Still doesn't make sense to me. The aircrew doesn't work at the Pentagon, just the passenger. If they need flight hours, I'd rather they get them doing something more like what they'll be doing in combat, instead of ferrying some guy to work. I don't see 20 helicopters parked outside the Pentagom all day. And I'll bet those helos are spit-shined, not combat ready.

The GENERAL doesn't need a personal helicopter and crew to get to work every day. That's not an effective allocation of resources. Something the military SHOULD be very good at.

quote Originally posted by Zeb: The GENERAL doesn't need a personal helicopter and crew to get to work every day. That's not an effective allocation of resources. Something the military SHOULD be very good at.

Well Zeb, unfortunately, the Pentagon sees it differently. Consider the General the CEO of any company employing 8,000 to 10,000 and quite possibly much more than that. Now, this company makes something that's very important to you and with out their product, your life would be totally changed, most likely for the worst. It's not just a perk, there are security concerns.

I doubt we'll agree on this and that's OK. I just think it's silly for our best military minds, who know all of our secrets and tactical plans to be sitting in traffic where they would most likely be a target for someone that doesn't agree with our policies.

Ron

quote Originally posted by blackrams: Well Zeb, unfortunately, the Pentagon sees it differently. Consider the General the CEO of any company employing 8,000 to 10,000 and quite possibly much more than that. Now, this company makes something that's very important to you and with out their product, your life would be totally changed, most likely for the worst. It's not just a perk, there are security concerns. I doubt we'll agree on this and that's OK. I just think it's silly for our best military minds, who know all of our secrets and tactical plans to be sitting in traffic where they would most likely be a target for someone that doesn't agree with our policies. Ron

There's also the issue of time.
Most people commute to work, spend the day, then commute home.
Executive brass (be it civilian or military) frequently need to be many places in one day. Get in, get it done, move on. Time is valuable and sitting in traffic is not a good use of that person's time.

(that's assuming they do actually have a need to be able to travel like that)

quote Originally posted by heybjorn: Blackrams flew helos, and, while he may have some normal human frailties, being a fool doesn't appear to be one of them. AFAIK, anyway.

Stick around, I'm not done living yet.

Ron

easy solution:
let the generals sleep in hammocks in closets at the pentagon, then they are available 24/7, and aren't out commuting in traffic. win-win!

come to think of it, might work with congress-critters and presidents, too! think of all the money we taxpayers would save, and it's no longer a cushy, prestigious job. maybe we could get someone willing to put up with a little inconvenience to do the job, instead of people who want to feed at the public trough.

..Goverment Law enforcement officers , firefighters,truck drivers,school teachers & other bureaucrats feed at the public trough,there are always higher ranks that seem worthless,Military generals do not feed free at the public expence,NEVER,, I do not hold officers in high esteem ,but it is a tough job ,,95% of our military earn there pay ,,The integrity of the military is way over anything else .some skate.The general population has no idea what really needs to be done ,,I know the price that is paid ,,Never see our military as the same scum that law enforcement or other bureacrats are,,ONLY democrats do this..

quote Originally posted by User00013170: Right, id also rather pay them for using their experience, not sitting in traffic. While it *seems* excessive, it really makes sense at a certain point.

These guys are not all top brass or Generals, nor are they all needed for the day to day ops in the war zones. And it;s not just a now and then thing, its an everyday thing. The maintenace cost for a big chopper is unreal. Let drive like everyone else.

tough to say.....I can see the need for "on-the-spot" people, but, I expect most of this is just the military doing what it does best: waste taxpayer money.
yes, there are likely people who NEED to get in & out. but I expect most of this is just self entitled jackazzes.

quote Originally posted by Francis T: These guys are not all top brass or Generals, nor are they all needed for the day to day ops in the war zones. And it;s not just a now and then thing, its an everyday thing. The maintenace cost for a big chopper is unreal. Let drive like everyone else.

But, the truth is, you really don't know what these guys are doing. You don't know if they are or aren't needed or involved on a day to day or any other basis. Several times when I was in the military, I was tasked to carry TS/BI documents from one location to another. Taking a helo flight was by far the most secure method of travel. I'm sure there are a few joy rides going on but, I'll bet those joyrides are on flights already scheduled for another purpose.

You're obviously looking at this from the perspective of an outsider and I can understand your position but, there is always another side to the story.

Ron

[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 12-22-2010).]

quote Originally posted by Francis T: The maintenace cost for a big chopper is unreal.

Yes, but let's keep it in perspective. The maintenance cost of Congress is far higher, and they do far more damage to everything. Let the birds fly.

quote Originally posted by Francis T: These guys are not all top brass or Generals, nor are they all needed for the day to day ops in the war zones. And it;s not just a now and then thing, its an everyday thing. The maintenace cost for a big chopper is unreal. Let drive like everyone else.

Well... D.C. has the cleanest subway system in the entire world...

I would suggest they take the Metro... but if you arrive after 7:30, every single spot at every single station has a car parked in it... heh.

I grew up in the DC Metro area, and it absolutely amazes me how much it's changed since I graduated from HS in 1996. 123 / Maple Ave / Chain Bridge Road are like nothing else. I could get from Vienna to Tyson's Corner in less than 5 minutes at any given time.

Last time I was in NoVa... it really stood up to it's acronym... I couldn't go anywhere. It took me almost an hour just to get from Vienna to Tyson's Corner. Couldn't believe it.

Believe it or not, many people who work in the city live as far out as places in West Virginia, or even Front Royal...

I even heard there are some people who live in Richmond and commute daily... INSANE!!!


EDIT: to say that I loved growing up there. Other than places like South-East DC, it's really a great place to live as a teenager. I mean, you have a subway station within a mile or so throughout the entire DC Metro Area including places like Bethesda Maryland and Northern Virginia. I used to go to the 9:30 Club back when I was in high school. We could get in because you only had to be 16... you just couldn't drink if you didn't have the wrist-band. Never really fully appreciated the museums until after I left though. There's a lot of money in DC... not as much "flash" as I see down here in South Florida...

Here in South Florida, every other person has a Maserati, Lamborgini Merciolago (sp?), Bentleys, or some 500 series Mercedes. In DC... everyone drives really expensive Volvos, or Fords, or Lexus vehicles. Different kind / conservative flash I suppose.




------------------
Todd,
2008 Jeep Patriot Limited 4x2
2002 Ford Explorer Sport 2dr 4x2
2002 Ford Crown Victoria LX
1987 Pontiac Fiero SE / V6
1973 Volkswagen Type-2 Transporter

[This message has been edited by 82-T/A [At Work] (edited 12-22-2010).]