Women...

So I met this girl. We hit it off immediately. We had the same music taste (which is actually very strange considering the music I enjoy), we had the same goals, we were both looking for the same type of person... plus some other things that I could list but I want to get on with the story. Basically, we hit it off like I've never hit it off with another girl before. We were talking for a few weeks.. every day just excited to talk to each other and get to know each other more. We established that we were attracted to one another, and wanted to date. So, I drove 4 1/2 hours out to where her family lives and we had a date day/night. We went four wheeling on her Grandpa's property, went out to a creek, went to her cousin's football game and hung out with her family, ate at a nice country club with the best salmon I've ever had, drove around for a little bit, and then hung out with her brother during the night. The whole time we were laughing, talking.. having an awesome time. The most fun I've ever had while on a date.

During our night with her brother and all of his friends, she got really upset at her brother because him and his friends were being drunk jerks to their girlfriends. She is pregnant, so I assume that heightened her emotions about it and she basically shut down. I tried to talk to her, but she wouldn't open up about anything and she went to talk to her mom for a couple hours. So I basically sat around and waited for her to come out. When she came out, her and her bro went outside for about 45 minutes and talked. After they were done, I went outside and talked to her for a bit but it was late so we went inside and went to bed. The next morning, I helped her clean up the house from the night before and then asked her if she wanted to grab lunch. She said she didn't have time, and her grandpa was coming home soon so she gave me directions home and I left.

Ever since then, she hasn't talked to me. When I message her on Facebook, she ignores it. When I instant message her, she says she has to go right then. I figured she must be really busy so I just gave her her space. She doesn't have a cell phone, so the only way to talk to her is through her mom or aunt's cells. I have their numbers, but I don't know when Taryn is around so I couldn't get a hold of her that way. She was always the one to get a hold of me. I messaged her today, and said this:

quote Well, I was going to wait to see if you'd contact me at all, but it's pretty useless I guess I'd just go another couple days without hearing from you. I don't know what happened. I thought our time together was pretty awesome. But you haven't responded to messages and you get off IM really fast, so I took the hint. You know, I really liked you, and was hoping we had a good thing going for us... but I guess I just didn't make the cut! I just don't want to not know exactly what happened, so could I ask you to please be straight with me and just tell me what I did wrong? You're the 3rd girl to be excited to date me, then when we meet up, you become disinterested. So please, enlighten me on what's up. Yeah, I'm assuming here. You COULD have just been totally busy. But I don't get that vibe. Especially since after I told Maria how I didn't want to talk to her you specifically told me that you can't do that--you just stop talking to the guy. Well yeah, I got that hint pretty quickly. I just want to know what's going on. And I really hope we can still talk every once in awhile. You said you were looking for a best friend, and that's fine by me. I'd like to still be a part of your life, even if it is platonic. I feel like there is some stuff still unsaid, but I don't want to send a huge message. Please respond directly and truthfully, I deserve that much.

Understand, there is more history than I have given, so if there is a question about the message, I can elaborate a little bit. But that's the gist.

Enter now, she ignored this message. If there is one thing I can't stand, it's people that can't face their problems dead on. I deserve to know what happened. I invested time, money, and emotions on this woman, then she just cuts me off. I'm so confused, and admittedly pretty torn apart by the whole ordeal. I don't understand how one day we are entirely interested and wanting to give it a shot, and the next day, WITH NO EXPLANATION, it's over. I seriously just don't get it! I'm telling you, besides her thing with her brother, everything was absolutely perfect. And her brother, who she said wouldn't like me, loved me and wanted me to date her. Her whole family was all over me. I mean I really thought everything went extremely well, as well as anything could have gone. And now, it's gone and I lost, and I have absolutely no idea why that happened.

This entire thing is a whine. I've been talking to friends about the situation, but they are all out of town right now and just wanted to type all of this out. Don't feel sympathetic for me, and please don't assume that I'm some nutjob who "fell in love" in a couple weeks. I understand there are other women out there. I know I WILL find a girl one day that loves me for who I am and I find her beautiful in every single way. I will get over this, and Taryn and I will both lead completely normal lives at the end of the day. I am just confused by why I don't even get any sort of answer after an awesome date as to why she became so disinterested.

*sigh*... Women... seriously.... Any man, through any argument, would take up a position and explain exactly why he is feeling the way he's feeling. Apparently, women aren't the same way.

Oh well... just wanted to get this out there. Thanks for reading.

Never mind. I just got a hold of her after writing this, and she said she is going through a LOT of stuff, and has been stressed out of her mind. She apologized for how she is handling it, but reminded me that she DID tell me she doesn't handle problems very well. I told her I was there if she ever needed me, and that I had her back. She knows that, and thanked me. I just am going to give her more time. She has a right to work things out without me getting involved. I gave her a little light "feel good" advice, told her I missed her, and told her to try and have a good night and get some rest. She thanked me again, and apologized again, and told me to have a good night.

So I guess I am just going to wait, and hear later what happened. I still think I lost her, something about it just gives me that hint. But it gives me great peace that I didn't lose a friend in the process, and that she isn't intentionally ignoring me.

Again, thanks for reading for any who did. You are all awesome.

Sometimes, people just need to get their life in line before risking anything else... (ask me how I know)

Let things quiet down before jumping to any conclusions about her feelings for you or the lack thereof. If you need someone to spill your guts to, shoot me a PM or email, whatever. Sometimes you just need the catharsis.

quote Originally posted by theBDub: She is pregnant ...

... and you are the white knight in shining armor. Been there, done that. (I'm the son of a Southern Belle, after all. Southern gentlemen are expected to be chivalrous.) She is being honest with you. She has a lot going on right now, and you want to move a lot faster (emotionally speaking) than she is comfortable with. It's a recipe for mutual discomfort, and your acceptance by her family probably only made her discomfort worse.

[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 10-30-2010).]

quote Originally posted by skuzzbomer: Sometimes, people just need to get their life in line before risking anything else... (ask me how I know) Let things quiet down before jumping to any conclusions about her feelings for you or the lack thereof. If you need someone to spill your guts to, shoot me a PM or email, whatever. Sometimes you just need the catharsis.

How do you know? Or was that rhetorical?

I am. I can't help but look to my future and guess as to what's going on. It keeps me motivated and sane. But yes, she has her time. Now that I know that she wasn't just ignoring me because I did something wrong, I am at great peace. She can have all the time she needs.

I appreciate the offer. As stated, I'm at peace right now. I'm glad I got a hold of her, even for the short while. I just hope that what she's going through isn't too terribly tough. The only reason I want to know what's going on now is because I want to be there for support. She's a wonderful woman, and potential girlfriend or not, she doesn't deserve some of the stuff that she's been through.

In the spirit of the thread, I'll update this in the next couple weeks when I hear an update. Just in case anyone is curious.

Again, I appreciate the reads. The title stated that it was a rant/whine, and it still got multiple reads. So thank you all who have read this. Your support means a lot.

If she's your age and pregnant, she does have a lot going on in her life. At that I would also urge you to proceed with caution and take things very slowly if she does want to try and continue your relationship. You don't need a child until you're ready and want one. At this point just offering to be there andlisten to her is probably the best thing you can do. Men tell their problems because they're looking for a saolution whereas women aren't usually looking for a solution they just want someone to listen and commiserate.

~Tyler

quote Originally posted by Marvin McInnis: ... and you are the white knight in shining armor. Been there, done that. (I'm the son of a Southern Belle, after all. I'm supposed to be chivalrous.) She is being honest with you. She has a lot going on right now, and you want to move a lot faster (emotionally speaking) than she is comfortable with right now. It's a recipe for mutual discomfort.

I am in full agreement with that. As much as I tell myself that I'm just trying to be her friend right now, it's hard to swallow and admit that I may be moving this too fast. Thanks for the advice. I know she has a lot going on, and she can have her time. I hope it works out for both of us, but even if it doesn't, I hope she works things out in her life. Like I just said, she really doesn't deserve the stuff she's been going through. She's an incredible person all the way down to her core.

Before I got a hold of her, I was just confused and didn't understand. But now, things seem to make a lot more sense. I know she's being honest with me. I'm so glad I got a hold of her.

quote Bdub: How do you know?

I've been the person on the other end of the issue... Had a lot of things to straighten out in the last year - job, getting into college, paying for everything, managing to keep sane when I'm surrounded by people who clearly aren't, emotional issues (there's a litany of those, believe me)... I was going into this past year -2010- with the intention of staying single to avoid the stress of commitment.

Now I'm 6 months into the only genuine relationship I've ever had - with the only person to which I could truthfully say "I love you." Known her for years, held feelings as did she.

She spent half a year in her own personal hell - one that I could've prevented with a simple question or action. That breaks my heart (this, coming from a cynical prick who frequently revels in the torment of others). That's a weight I will bear until the day I die.

--------------
Life is funny sometimes.

No problem Brennan, call me anytime. (Seriously)

~Tyler

quote Originally posted by skuzzbomer: She spent half a year in her own personal hell - one that I could've prevented with a simple question or action.

Can I ask what this was? Just to extend your support?

Her father was/is an abusive and violent alcoholic with a predisposition toward inappropriate behavior when women are around (fill in the blanks yourself), she had friends trying to control her, bogus relationships with bad people... Eventually, it all came to a head and she bailed out of the situation ...

She was on the run for a long while, hiding in basements, staying out in the country, going from place to place with a bounty on her head. She was beaten down emotionally and sometimes physically - while on the run, she was assaulted in more ways than one and she had nowhere to go (that she knew of - I had always told her I was available but she didn't understand that I meant it when I said "anything you need, call me"). Long story short, she ended up getting busted by some headhunters and spending some time in juvenile (still a minor at this point).

I don't like talking about this as it reminds me what a worthless POS I've been.

This is where I came back into the picture - about a week, maybe two after she got out of jail a mutual friend invited her to the afterparty for my HS senior prom. I was already there and I saw her walk in - I hadn't seen her or heard from her since the previous November. The whole time I was wondering where she was, what happened? Then we started talking (pretty much spent the entire night/party talking and flirting, etc. Ignoring everyone else there), and I gave her my number again... She's totally out of my league, but I haven't ever seen myself having a future with anyone else.

---------------------------

I lost her once, and I didn't know what I had... I'll be damned before I let it happen again.

If you had asked me a year ago, if I would be in this situation any time in the next decade, I would've said "hell no." The text just below the break was my thought process the night I realized I had a second chance, that I could redeem myself.

- Jonathon

quote Originally posted by Marvin McInnis: ... and you are the white knight in shining armor. Been there, done that. ...

I have too. And let me tell you, it gets old.
Maybe it's just because I've gotten older and more cynical.

Think, very carefully, about what you're getting into. Aside from having a new life inside her, she's got a lot of emotional baggage to bring with her. At this point in your life, you can't know what she's been through and what she's feeling.

One thing that puzzles me is that you said you were saving yourself for marriage. An admirable goal, if that's what you want to do, but it seems like you would have the same expectation for a woman.

Please don't misunderstand. I think you are doing a very noble thing. I just wonder what is motivating you. Where you are coming from.
Regardless, I wish you well. If nothing else, I hope everything works out like it's supposed to.

Peace.

quote Originally posted by theBDub: During our night with her brother and all of his friends, she got really upset at her brother because him and his friends were being drunk jerks to their girlfriends. She is pregnant, so I assume that heightened her emotions about it and she basically shut down. I tried to talk to her, but she wouldn't open up about anything and she went to talk to her mom for a couple hours. So I basically sat around and waited for her to come out. When she came out, her and her bro went outside for about 45 minutes and talked. After they were done, I went outside and talked to her for a bit but it was late so we went inside and went to bed. The next morning, I helped her clean up the house from the night before and then asked her if she wanted to grab lunch. She said she didn't have time, and her grandpa was coming home soon so she gave me directions home and I left.

There is so much wrong with this whole paragraph. Maybe I'm just too old school.

[This message has been edited by kyunderdawg (edited 10-30-2010).]

I bet the father of her unborn child is still in the picture and a lot closer to her than you are. Count your lucky stars and run away!

quote Originally posted by kyunderdawg: There is so much wrong with this whole paragraph. Maybe I'm just too old school.

Agreed.

quote Originally posted by avengador1: I bet the father of her unborn child is still in the picture and a lot closer to her than you are. Count your lucky stars and run away!

Dually agreed. Been there, done that. Never ends well.

Its even worse when its with someone who is separated and going through a divorce (minus the kids). Mistake I'll never make again. Almost cost me everything I had (relations-wise) prior to that event.

[This message has been edited by Xerces_Blackthorne (edited 10-30-2010).]

quote Originally posted by skuzzbomer: Her father was/is an abusive and violent alcoholic with a predisposition toward inappropriate behavior when women are around (fill in the blanks yourself), she had friends trying to control her, bogus relationships with bad people... Eventually, it all came to a head and she bailed out of the situation ... She was on the run for a long while, hiding in basements, staying out in the country, going from place to place with a bounty on her head. She was beaten down emotionally and sometimes physically - while on the run, she was assaulted in more ways than one and she had nowhere to go (that she knew of - I had always told her I was available but she didn't understand that I meant it when I said "anything you need, call me"). Long story short, she ended up getting busted by some headhunters and spending some time in juvenile (still a minor at this point). I don't like talking about this as it reminds me what a worthless POS I've been. This is where I came back into the picture - about a week, maybe two after she got out of jail a mutual friend invited her to the afterparty for my HS senior prom. I was already there and I saw her walk in - I hadn't seen her or heard from her since the previous November. The whole time I was wondering where she was, what happened? Then we started talking (pretty much spent the entire night/party talking and flirting, etc. Ignoring everyone else there), and I gave her my number again... She's totally out of my league, but I haven't ever seen myself having a future with anyone else.

Thank you Jonathon.Though I don't have much to say, this post is powerful in its own merit. You are a truly upstanding character.

quote Originally posted by Raydar: I have too. And let me tell you, it gets old. Maybe it's just because I've gotten older and more cynical. Think, very carefully, about what you're getting into. Aside from having a new life inside her, she's got a lot of emotional baggage to bring with her. At this point in your life, you can't know what she's been through and what she's feeling. One thing that puzzles me is that you said you were saving yourself for marriage. An admirable goal, if that's what you want to do, but it seems like you would have the same expectation for a woman. Please don't misunderstand. I think you are doing a very noble thing. I just wonder what is motivating you. Where you are coming from. Regardless, I wish you well. If nothing else, I hope everything works out like it's supposed to. Peace.

Interesting point. You aren't the only one to bring it up to me.

She accepted Christ into her life and turned her life around about a month after her girl was conceived. We've talked, and there will be no "extra" temptation to have sex with her than any other woman, she's now waiting until she's married. As her Brother in Christ, I can and will challenge her on present and future mistake, but her past before Christ was a completely different life. I don't judge any part of her based on that, and am quite honestly completely comfortable knowing she has had sex.

Though I am waiting, that's not necessarily a needed trait in the woman I meet.

What's motivating me? I'm not sure... we just met and clicked. I find joy in loving others around me, and significant others can receive so much. It just feels right. I don't know exactly what's motivating me.

quote Originally posted by kyunderdawg: There is so much wrong with this whole paragraph. Maybe I'm just too old school.

No... you are not just old school.

I would not pick ANY of that for a first date. I would bust out the signature fancy Italian restaurant, walk around a park, and kiss on her cheek at her doorstep as I leave to drive home...

But, her mom is the one that called me down and invited me over for her birthday weekend, and said they had an open couch because she didn't want me driving 4 1/2 hours to go home at night. A friendly gesture, but it did make me uncomfortable. I realized she was right though, and so I just stayed. But not in the same bed or anything. Other than the sleeping, I'm not sure what you found so wrong. But I'm old school in that aspect as well, trust me.

quote Originally posted by avengador1: I bet the father of her unborn child is still in the picture and a lot closer to her than you are. Count your lucky stars and run away!

No, trust me. He was brought up around the family and everyone was sour. He is not in the picture at all. He will not have anything to do with the child. I know this by talking to Taryn, and conversations I've had with her mom and brother. There is no sneaking around going on.

She probably just got cold feet. It could be one (or more) of many reasons. But long story short, she's not ready for another relationship yet.

Not to be rude, but IMO you shouldn't pine for her. Get on with your life. If she ever decides she wants to give you a second chance, I'm sure she'll let you know.

For all the reasons you can come up with for pursuing this and all the things involving her that you can attempt to explain away, the fact is you are NOT acting rationally.

Good luck man, and I mean that.

quote Originally posted by Blacktree: She probably just got cold feet. It could be one (or more) of many reasons. But long story short, she's not ready for another relationship yet. Not to be rude, but IMO you shouldn't pine for her. Get on with your life. If she ever decides she wants to give you a second chance, I'm sure she'll let you know.

That's basically what I'm doing. I'm not going to forget about her, but I'm moving on for right now. I'm giving her her space, and in the meantime will be keeping my options open. At this point, I just want to be a good friend.

quote Originally posted by Red88FF: For all the reasons you can come up with for pursuing this and all the things involving her that you can attempt to explain away, the fact is you are NOT acting rationally. Good luck man, and I mean that.

Most of my actions in life are based strictly on logic, with no emotion entering the scene. But the more I grow as a man, the more I realize how important emotions can be to a person, and I'm incorporating them with my logic.

This may not seem rational to you, but I am certain I am still using my logical reasoning here, even though this is one of the first times I'm letting emotions make an impact.

It's not all about rationale. Sometimes, you need to let loose a little bit and let things happen. Whether for good or bad, I'm happy I'm allowing my emotions to take an impact. Thanks for the luck. I hope something works out. But if it doesn't, like I said, life will go on for both of us and we'll live completely normal lives, probably not even remembering one another. Part of this has been a learning experience for me--can I let emotions in, without hindering rational decision making? And regardless of the answer to that question, I'm happy that I'm pursuing that route and growing as a person and as a man.

Well, there's a couple of things that I noticed, and I mean this in the nicest way.

When you meet someone for the first time to hang out, it's usually for a quick dinner, a movie, maybe a walk down the boardwalk, or you hang out somewhere private to get to know her better, and then you call it a night. As a general rule, any woman who would go to bed with you on the first night, or anyone who BEGS to take you home the night you meet them, is NOT the kind of person who you'd really want to have a relationship with. It usually means they either have almost no self respect and they think this is the only way you're going to want to be with them, OR... well... I dunno, maybe you're just so hot that they can't control themselves or something (usually not the case).

Now, I don't presume to know if you slept with her on the first night, but you did say (unless I'm not understanding this well) that you hung out with her whole family, there was a lot of drinking and partying, and then you went to bed with her that same night, in her parents house?

If you had a daughter... would you want some dude (no matter how nice he might be) to sleep with your daughter in your house? I know the liberals like to say "better under my roof than someone elses" but... seriously, is that what you would want?

So that raises another red flag there.

There is also fact that she's pregnant. Now... I don't want to tear her apart here, because I'm sure she's a really nice girl that's just been taken advantage of... but there's a LOT of responsibility that you're going to be facing if you decide that you ultimately want to be with this girl.

1 - The father of the baby is, I'm sure, still around somewhere, and will continue to be a big part of your life. At least for a little while, she will probably still have feelings for him. Imagine how you'll feel that day when you find her crying because she's upset after a call she had with him because she still has feelings? I've personally not been through this, but I've seen enough of this kind of scenario with my own friends, that it's not something I'd want to go through.

2 - As a pregnant woman, she'll be up and down with emotions because of the hormones. When it comes down to it, it's a natural instinct to want to protect herself in any way, and seek safety and security. She'll be looking for someone to be her child's father... is that you? Is that a responsibility that you're willing to take on? Do you know what it costs as an individual to pay for all the living expenses of a woman, a baby, their lodging and food costs, and then STILL be there for them when they both need emotional support? You are a better man than I am if you're willing to do that at such a young age... that is something that more responsible people do when they're older, married, and have a substantially larger and more stable income (IE: marriage, have children, and support a household). If you're willing to do this at a very eary or young age (I think you said you weren't even 20 yet)... then you're essentially giving up any major career goals you might have or might want to have. At the very least, you're putting them off for quite some time, and / or putting yourself at a competitive disadvantage.

3 - Do you know the difference between true love and the mere effect that phermones have on one another? I know all the gay crap people feel when they're head over heels initially... chest hurts, it's all you think about... gay stuff like all you want to do is just lay down together at the beach talking about crap. But when the two bodies adjust to the phermones, and you no longer have those strong chemical reactions... will you still love her for who she is, her personality, her feelings, her goals? Will she still love you for yours?


I really don't want to be an ass here... the real nice thing to do would be to become her husband and take care of her illigitimate child, and forego any dreams or goals you might already have... but really think HARD about what you want out of life.

As someone who is in their early 30s... I can tell you that life changes a LOT in your early 20s... and continues to do so well into your mid 20s. Every couple of years is like a huge awakening for many people about what their life means to them, and what they expect out of it. What goals they set, and what the direction of their life will take.

Just Sayin'...

------------------
Todd,
2008 Jeep Patriot Limited 4x2
2002 Ford Explorer Sport 2dr 4x2
2002 Ford Crown Victoria LX
1987 Pontiac Fiero SE / V6
1973 Volkswagen Type-2 Transporter

[This message has been edited by 82-T/A [At Work] (edited 10-30-2010).]

I appreciate your post. I'll break it into parts to address these points individually.

quote Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: Well, there's a couple of things that I noticed, and I mean this in the nicest way. When you mean someone for the first time to hang out, it's usually for a quick dinner, a movie, maybe a walk down the boardwalk, or you hang out somewhere private to get to know her better, and then you call it a night. As a general rule, any woman who would go to bed with you on the first night, or anyone who BEGS to take you home the night you meet them, is NOT the kind of person who you'd really want to have a relationship with. It usually means they either have almost no self respect and they think this is the only way you're going to want to be with them, OR... well... I dunno, maybe you're just so hot that they can't control themselves or something (usually not the case). Now, I don't presume to know if you slept with her on the first night, but you did say (unless I'm not understanding this well) that you hung out with her whole family, there was a lot of drinking and partying, and then you went to bed with her that same night, in her parents house? If you had a daughter... would you want some dude (no matter how nice he might be) to sleep with your daughter in your house? I know the liberals like to say "better under my roof than someone elses" but... seriously, is that what you would want? So that raises another red flag there.

Her family's house was 4 1/2 hours from my school, so the stay was not too crazy. I did NOT sleep with her. We did not sleep in the same place even. I asked her where I was sleeping, she said the couch, and she went to her room. She was not willing to move that fast, and I'm not willing to move that fast. The stay was purely out of convenience for everybody. And the mom was the one that orchestrated the stay as well. There was a certain amount of trust placed on me, and I can honestly say that if I were a father, and my daughter met a great guy that I wanted to meet, I would let him stay somewhere in the house separated from my daughter. And that's exactly what they did.

Also, there was drinking and partying, but only among Taryn's brothers friends. He had his girlfriend over, and two other friends with their girlfriends. Brother included, 6 people. It was not anything extraordinary, and no, I didn't drink.

quote Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: There is also fact that she's pregnant. Now... I don't want to tear her apart here, because I'm sure she's a really nice girl that's just been taken advantage of... but there's a LOT of responsibility that you're going to be facing if you decide that you ultimately want to be with this girl. 1 - The father of the baby is, I'm sure, still around somewhere, and will continue to be a big part of your life. At least for a little while, she will probably still have feelings for him. Imagine how you'll feel that day when you find her crying because she's upset after a call she had with him because she still has feelings? I've personally not been through this, but I've seen enough of this kind of scenario with my own friends, that it's not something I'd want to go through.

This IS a worry of mine, and a valid point. I have seen this happen before, and even though I know how she feels about him NOW, there is still the fact that he will be the father. Now, she doesn't want him in the child's life at all. He has 2 other kids that he doesn't care about so she has made the decision to not give him any visitation or anything. But the point stands, he is the father of her child and there will perhaps always be a connection there. It is something that is concerning to me, but not too great of a concern.

I have an older sister who has 3 children. Each one is from a different man. And she now is married to an awesome guy that she DID deserve, she had just made quite a few mistakes. If he hadn't looked past that to see her inner beauty, my loving sister wouldn't have such a wonderful marriage. I have talked to both of them and gotten advice on the situation.

quote Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: 2 - As a pregnant woman, she'll be up and down with emotions because of the hormones. When it comes down to it, it's a natural instinct to want to protect herself in any way, and seek safety and security. She'll be looking for someone to be her child's father... is that you? Is that a responsibility that you're willing to take on? Do you know what it costs as an individual to pay for all the living expenses of a woman, a baby, their lodging and food costs, and then STILL be there for them when they both need emotional support? You are a better man than I am if you're willing to do that at such a young age... that is something that more responsible people do when they're older, married, and have a substantially larger and more stable income (IE: marriage, have children, and support a household). If you're willing to do this at a very eary or young age (I think you said you weren't even 20 yet)... then you're essentially giving up any major career goals you might have or might want to have. At the very least, you're putting them off for quite some time, and / or putting yourself at a competitive disadvantage.

Yes. I am continuing my career path as planned no matter what. Baby or not, it's the best thing. Without a college education, I would not be making the money I can after I graduate. So plain and simple, that's the best thing. But emotionally I can handle that. It's something that I've thought about, but not too dearly. I'm letting things happen as they lay, for I don't want to presume that we are going to go get married and have 80 years together. That's looking TOO far into the future. I've considered it, weighed the ups and downs, and made my decision to pursue her and her upcoming daughter. It is something I'm willing to tackle.

quote Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: 3 - Do you know the difference between true love and the mere effect that phermones have on one another? I know all the gay crap people feel when they're head over heels initially... chest hurts, it's all you think about... gay stuff like all you want to do is just lay down together at the beach talking about crap. But when the two bodies adjust to the phermones, and you no longer have those strong chemical reactions... will you still love her for who she is, her personality, her feelings, her goals? Will she still love you for yours? I really don't want to be an ass here... the real nice thing to do would be to become her husband and take care of her illigitimate child, and forego any dreams or goals you might already have... but really think HARD about what you want out of life.

I am not in love, and I want to make that very clear. I even reiterated that in my original post. I have a certain taking to this woman, but I am by no means in love. Love is not just an emotion, it's an action, and it's a presence, and it's something that ferments over time and blossoms into something wonderful. I am not there yet. Nor do I have any delusions that it will happen soon. Right now, it's strictly "I really like this girl, and want to pursue her".

We have a LOT of similarities, and yes I get the chest pumping, butterfly fluttering feeling, but that isn't what love is. Love runs deeper than that initial hype.

If she is ANYTHING even CLOSE to what she is right now, then yes, I will still be very attracted to her personality and her goals and her visions of the future. I

quote Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: As someone who is in their early 30s... I can tell you that life changes a LOT in your early 20s... and continues to do so well into your mid 20s. Every couple of years is like a huge awakening for many people about what their life means to them, and what they expect out of it. What goals they set, and what the direction of their life will take. Just Sayin'...

Absolutely. Which is why I'm not letting her change any initial goals about my future. Right now, I'm focusing on school work and getting a job. That's what I'm here for, and that's what I'm going to do. I will continue to grow as a man, and she as a woman. And if we grow apart during all of that, then a peaceful separation will happen and I will have had a wonderful time with two beautiful people I got to share some of my life with. And she will still be young and ambitious and on her feet ready to get out there and pursue other relationships.

Thanks for the post. I have not taken offense to anything here, you are all just pitching advice, and I greatly appreciate it. Unless you deliver a personal attack against me, I don't think I will take any of this the wrong way. So please, don't filter anything. Thank you all for the reads and the input. As mentioned above, I love this community. Thank you all.

quote Originally posted by theBDub: I appreciate your post. I'll break it into parts to address these points individually. Thanks for the post. I have not taken offense to anything here, you are all just pitching advice, and I greatly appreciate it. Unless you deliver a personal attack against me, I don't think I will take any of this the wrong way. So please, don't filter anything. Thank you all for the reads and the input. As mentioned above, I love this community. Thank you all.

No problem, I'm glad I could help or shed any new light where someone might not have been able to.

One thing I want to add is that, unless the father actually signs his parental rights over (requires a lawyer), he still has equal custody (any time he wants it) with the child... as it should be by law. No such judgement can be made anyway until after the daughter is born... so understand that at some point, you will be spending time with this dude, and all the emotional back-lash that comes from it.

I know this because one of my best friends whom I've known for about 14 years now just went through this. He married a girl who had a child with another man before they were dating. They're married now, and the daughter (now a teenager) is officially his daughter by law... but he WOULD occasionlly pop in and out.

As it were, these kinds of guys (not my friend, but the original dad) have the personality where they don't like to give in, and like to try to flex what power the have... regardless of what might be best for the child. In this case, he refused to sign the documentation giving up his right as the dad... so the only recourse was to give him the decision:

1 - We either sue you for 10 years of back child custody payments (supported by a law that currently exists in Florida)

2 - You sign over your custody rights of your daughter.


Ultimately, he took #2, but I know it cost him a bunch of money... I think something in the neighborhood of over $1,500 bucks. Small price to pay though to get him out of her life for good.

But... that IS what you'll eventually have to deal with.

But yeah, go with your instincts...

------------------
Todd,
2008 Jeep Patriot Limited 4x2
2002 Ford Explorer Sport 2dr 4x2
2002 Ford Crown Victoria LX
1987 Pontiac Fiero SE / V6
1973 Volkswagen Type-2 Transporter

"18 years, 18 years."

That is a long time to think about raising a kid that isn't yours. If you are nurturing any familial instincts toward a woman who is carrying another man's seed, you are creating an obstacle to a healthy relationship in your life. That child will always have a right to be with its father, and the father will have rights as well. The domestic drama that you are inviting into your life is of the soul crushing variety.

You are a young guy. I respect your commitment to celibacy before marriage. I believe it makes it a bit of a non issue for her when her daughter is your flower girl. But between you and God, I get that. But I just question the sanity of someone who would get married in this generation before 25. In my case it was 33 before I got married. If you are going to stay a virgin that long, I hope your God is cool with masturbation.

End note, run.

quote He is not in the picture at all. He will not have anything to do with the child.

So she is not going to seek parental support for their child? Once a parent always a parent, unless he signs away his parental rights.

quote Originally posted by theBDub: No... you are not just old school.

I think that I am more old school. ( the 3rd statement in this post will explain why )

quote Originally posted by theBDub: I would bust out the signature fancy Italian restaurant, walk around a park, and kiss on her cheek at her doorstep as I leave to drive home...

Not bad.....pretty close to what I'd have done.

quote Originally posted by theBDub: But, her mom is the one that called me down and invited me over for her birthday weekend, and said they had an open couch because she didn't want me driving 4 1/2 hours to go home at night. A friendly gesture, but it did make me uncomfortable. I realized she was right though, and so I just stayed. But not in the same bed or anything. Other than the sleeping, I'm not sure what you found so wrong. But I'm old school in that aspect as well, trust me.

I would've been so "twitterpated" ( yeah, stole that from Bambi ) with how the date went that I would be hyped the whole 4 1/2hr drive back home. I would have declined the overnight stay, but that's just me.

[This message has been edited by kyunderdawg (edited 10-31-2010).]

quote Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: No problem, I'm glad I could help or shed any new light where someone might not have been able to. One thing I want to add is that, unless the father actually signs his parental rights over (requires a lawyer), he still has equal custody (any time he wants it) with the child... as it should be by law. No such judgement can be made anyway until after the daughter is born... so understand that at some point, you will be spending time with this dude, and all the emotional back-lash that comes from it. I know this because one of my best friends whom I've known for about 14 years now just went through this. He married a girl who had a child with another man before they were dating. They're married now, and the daughter (now a teenager) is officially his daughter by law... but he WOULD occasionlly pop in and out. As it were, these kinds of guys (not my friend, but the original dad) have the personality where they don't like to give in, and like to try to flex what power the have... regardless of what might be best for the child. In this case, he refused to sign the documentation giving up his right as the dad... so the only recourse was to give him the decision: 1 - We either sue you for 10 years of back child custody payments (supported by a law that currently exists in Florida) 2 - You sign over your custody rights of your daughter. Ultimately, he took #2, but I know it cost him a bunch of money... I think something in the neighborhood of over $1,500 bucks. Small price to pay though to get him out of her life for good. But... that IS what you'll eventually have to deal with. But yeah, go with your instincts...

Good points to consider. Again, thanks.

quote Originally posted by WhiteDevil88: "18 years, 18 years." That is a long time to think about raising a kid that isn't yours. If you are nurturing any familial instincts toward a woman who is carrying another man's seed, you are creating an obstacle to a healthy relationship in your life. That child will always have a right to be with its father, and the father will have rights as well. The domestic drama that you are inviting into your life is of the soul crushing variety. You are a young guy. I respect your commitment to celibacy before marriage. I believe it makes it a bit of a non issue for her when her daughter is your flower girl. But between you and God, I get that. But I just question the sanity of someone who would get married in this generation before 25. In my case it was 33 before I got married. If you are going to stay a virgin that long, I hope your God is cool with masturbation. End note, run.

Well I'm not really looking to get married anytime soon. That's a whole new topic altogether haha. A topic that doesn't need to be brought up for years.

quote Originally posted by avengador1: So she is not going to seek parental support for their child? Once a parent always a parent, unless he signs away his parental rights.

He will probably have the RIGHT to be in the kid's life, but like his other two kids that he already doesn't care about, he won't. We'll see what all comes of it.

quote Originally posted by kyunderdawg: I would've been so "twitterpated" ( yeah, stole that from Bambi ) with how the date went that I would be hiped the whole 4 1/2hr drive back home. I would have declined the overnight stay, but that's just me.

Ahh, I guess I could've done that. Oh well.