Not a bar graph! That's almost as legitimate as the youtube videos people use as solid evidence for hoax conspiracies.

Hey, something I have always been curious about... How did evolution, or the Emperor of the Universe of Intelligent Cells, or whatever, make the jump from cold blooded to warm blooded? I mean, I understand things like... A butterflies cells are sick of being eaten by birds, so they have a big camp fire meeting and figure out that they need to scare the big bad birds away. Then they have cellular focus groups and determine the best way to do it. Then they get together and send out community memos so that all the cells on the wings know to form up in proper ranks and color schemes so as to make the wings look like a giant face or something. That is pretty cut and dry. But the cold to warm blooded jump... How did that come about? And where are the lukewarm blooded critters?

They comprise every Government in the Western World
Nick

quote Originally posted by TommyRocker: Hey, something I have always been curious about... How did evolution, or the Emperor of the Universe of Intelligent Cells, or whatever, make the jump from cold blooded to warm blooded? I mean, I understand things like... A butterflies cells are sick of being eaten by birds, so they have a big camp fire meeting and figure out that they need to scare the big bad birds away. Then they have cellular focus groups and determine the best way to do it. Then they get together and send out community memos so that all the cells on the wings know to form up in proper ranks and color schemes so as to make the wings look like a giant face or something. That is pretty cut and dry. But the cold to warm blooded jump... How did that come about? And where are the lukewarm blooded critters?

Ya, and what about exo-skeletons?

Looking at the information on the original thread starters graph just solidifes somehing I was led to believe some time ago....70% of the wold is made up of idiots and morons. Looks like the numbers are increasing too.

Brian

quote Originally posted by TommyRocker: Hey, something I have always been curious about... How did evolution, or the Emperor of the Universe of Intelligent Cells, or whatever, make the jump from cold blooded to warm blooded? I mean, I understand things like... A butterflies cells are sick of being eaten by birds, so they have a big camp fire meeting and figure out that they need to scare the big bad birds away. Then they have cellular focus groups and determine the best way to do it. Then they get together and send out community memos so that all the cells on the wings know to form up in proper ranks and color schemes so as to make the wings look like a giant face or something. That is pretty cut and dry. But the cold to warm blooded jump... How did that come about? And where are the lukewarm blooded critters?

yes.

to start with - there really is no "jump" from cold blooded to warm blooded. just like everything else - like wings, eyes, stomachs, lungs - they start out vague and then specialize. heck - just the transition from single cell to multi cell is a major leap. and then to slowly make blood & organs? there is ALOT missing in the theory of evolution. but - I endlessly prefer it to >< POOF! >< there be life! There is an unseen intelligence at work. and I think it is at the cellular level.

quote Originally posted by 2.5: Ya, and what about exo-skeletons?

You mean like our skulls?

Exoskeletons are actually much more efficient structurally than endoskeletons, and they provide much better protection against injury or infection than skin alone, with the big disadvantages that joint articulation is considerably more difficult and that they severely limit growth of an animal and have to be shed periodically to accommodate growth.

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quote Originally posted by fierofetish: Maybe your conclusion is barking up the wrong tree?? MY belief is, the schools are all being supplied with students who have already been compromised by poor, often dreadful, parenting...and thereby don't stand a chance in H3ll of producing flawless graduates. I agree that they don't HELP...but the damage has already been done, and continues to be done, aided and abetted by FURTHER abysmal parenting I would support the teachers above modern parents, poor sods Nick Nick

I accept that parenting is definately a factor. But where did the parents get their education? The same public schools that their kids are getting their education. The US' public schools have been horrible for several generations now. It is so bad that many people are starting to conclude that poor schools create poor neighborhoods.

I will be watching a documentary tonight on this very subject with a college lecturer as company. She is on the front lines and tells me the inside dirt of how bad things are.

quote Originally posted by Marvin McInnis: You mean like our skulls? Exoskeletons are actually much more efficient structurally than endoskeletons, and they provide much better protection against injury or infection than skin alone, with the big disadvantages that joint articulation is considerably more difficult and that they severely growth of an animal and have to be shed periodically to accommodate growth.

Well, I mean like entire bodies. So you would say then that something like a lobster is higher on the evolution chain than a human?

quote Originally posted by 2.5: So you would say then that something like a lobster is higher on the evolution chain than a human?

Not higher, just different, and perhaps better adapted to its environment than our body form would be.

For an example of "better" physiology in other animals, check out the eye of the octopus family (and some other cephalopods). Hint: The structure of human and octopus eyes are virtually identical, except that human (and other mammalian) eyes have inverted retinas, while the octopus eye "got it right."

An example of "better" in humans and other mammals: Oxygen transport in lobster blood is copper based, rather than the much more efficient iron-based hemoglobin in human blood. Copper obviously works "well enough" for oxygen transport, at least in animals with a low metabolic rate, but iron is much better.

[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 10-13-2010).]

quote Originally posted by TommyRocker: Hey, something I have always been curious about... How did evolution, or the Emperor of the Universe of Intelligent Cells, or whatever, make the jump from cold blooded to warm blooded? I mean, I understand things like... A butterflies cells are sick of being eaten by birds, so they have a big camp fire meeting and figure out that they need to scare the big bad birds away. Then they have cellular focus groups and determine the best way to do it. Then they get together and send out community memos so that all the cells on the wings know to form up in proper ranks and color schemes so as to make the wings look like a giant face or something. That is pretty cut and dry. But the cold to warm blooded jump... How did that come about? And where are the lukewarm blooded critters?

It may not be that big of a change to go from cold blooded to warm blooded. Recently, archeologists found dinosaur bones in Alaska that indicate that those animals were warm blooded. We may find out that a lot of the dinosaurs were actually warm blooded and not cold blooded as people typically think of reptiles.

I think the bigger leaps that are much more difficult or impossible to explain by Darwinian processes are those on the molecular level inside the cell and the origin of life itself. Natural Selection destroys information, it does not create any. Before Natural Selection can even work, there has to be a population of living, repoducing organisms and most importantly, they must have a mechanism for heridity. I don't believe it is possible for a random jumble of amino acids to create such a creature considering that it would take millions of molecules to fall into place perfectly in the correct order in order to work.

Bear in mind that Darwin said that evolution only works by gradual changes over a large time span. Any sudden or drastic changes in an animal is not evolution. Yet in the fossil record we see instances of sudden changes such as with the Cambrian explosion. Darwinists have come up with a number of theories to explain it but they ignore the fact that it violates Darwin's definition of Evolution.

So you are saying that their was a species that was cold blooded, but had a secondary useless circulatory system that was warm blooded, and this was a transition species from cold to warm? or, rather, many species...? Or what? I mean, wouldn't it have to be a jump? How do you transition smoothly from cold to warm blooded? Explain to me, oh wise ones!

quote Originally posted by TommyRocker: So you are saying that their was a species that was cold blooded, but had a secondary useless circulatory system that was warm blooded, and this was a transition species from cold to warm? or, rather, many species...? Or what? I mean, wouldn't it have to be a jump? How do you transition smoothly from cold to warm blooded? Explain to me, oh wise ones!

well, part of the confusion here might be what is the major difference between being cold & warm blooded? all it is is temprature regulation. its not really as big a deal as creating a blood circulation in the first place. might wanna ponder how the heck THAT evolved - and what was used before that?

quote Originally posted by Doug85GT: Given a set population of flies and all other inputs you cannot calculate anything to the degree of accuracy as you can with gravity. At when generation will the albino appear? What other mutations will randomly appear? At what generation will the fruit fly become a new species? How will any of these calculations apply to other species if at all?

Hence why they're "random" mutations.

I'm sure any statistician can give you probabilities for the generation when the albino appears.

When it becomes a new species is something of a debate. We don't really have a definition for a "species"... It's a group of genetically similar organisms. By that definition, a group of albino flies could be a new species.

BTW, I dare you to calculate with any accuracy the location and velocity of an electron orbiting a nucleus. Just because you can't give me hard numbers, doesn't mean the electron doesn't exist. When you boil it all down, everything becomes a probability.

Someone here has a signiture that says something like: "A couple of yeast spent their whole life (about 2 weeks) contimplating the meaning of their exsistance, and never once did they even come close to the fact that they were making Champagne."

The whole process may be much simpler then we think....



I watched the whole show.
I puts forth the proposition that nature has been using us to IT'S ends.
Evolution turned on it's ear?

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quote This is why we're losing the science race ...

Hmm .... American technology and an American drilled rescue well just saved 33 Chilean miners.

more proof:

For you guys that think you understand evolution.

A "missing link" fossil, 360000000 year old fish with legs, not quite reached land yet. Reasearchers figured when and what type of environment, and then found a suitible place on an island north of Canada. Three years of searching what had been a shallow sea 360000000 years ago, researchers found a fish with eyes on top, gills on the side, and folded front legs underneath.

Directly related to this are the DNA segments that do not mutate, among them is the skeleton sequence, unchanged in every mammal on Earth, all of them, you, me, mice, manatees, all mammals on earth. The rest of the 2000000 DNA segments all mutate regularly.

The connect: that 360 million year old fish, never yet having seen land, had five fingers, a wrist, two bones in its forearm, single bone upper arm and a shoulder socket.

This is before there were any land animals at all, none. And yet arm and hands. No, I cannot spell "in His image".

Thoughts on where evolution leads

Excerpt:

Appeals to the uniqueness of human life are likely to fall on deaf ears if you are an evolutionist. Reminders of the horrors unrestrained scientists have created in the past are likely to be viewed as an aberration.

In retrospect, great horrors are usually seen as springing up full-formed. Many people didn't notice the small steps that led to the Nazi Holocaust or to the selling of African slaves in the public square. Senses must first be dulled; religion trivialized; and self enthroned before tolerance for the horrific is accepted.

After the fact, even those who turned a blind eye to such things wonder aloud how it could have happened. Awards are bestowed on those who see evil before it conquers us and try to stop its advance, but not on historians who might have sounded a warning and live only to write about it later.