So lately I've been fretting over a 70 challenger and a 73 challenger that a guy is selling locally. While I absolutely love these cars and have wanted one for a long time I don't have a whole lot of experience with them yet. I'm not sure what kind of value these cars have since they are in fairly rough shape. Plus, to get these I'm going to have to make room and sell at least a few of my other cars. Anyhow, I don't usually make threads like these but I have to admit it's been keeping me up at night



As far as condition, The 70 is mostly complete minus an engine/tranny and has some rust in the trunk area. The rest of the car looks pretty good (at least what I could see on a quick glance) including the rockers.

The 73 isn't quite as complete. It's also missing the engine/tranny and he robbed the hood and fender off of it and put them on the 70. This car has some serious rust problems throughout the roof and trunk and who knows where else. He bought it as a parts car for the other one.


So anyhow, I'm not sure what the value of these cars would be. Most of the challengers that I find selling are in good condition and go for outrageous amounts. Any ideas on a fair price for these?
Also, is there anything in particular that I should really pay attention when assessing the condition of these cars?
Also, the other thing that is worrying me is the availability (and pricing) of whatever parts I'm going to need.


Any comments are welcome!

And since every thread needs at least one picture....here's one that get the saliva glands pumping!

[This message has been edited by GraterFang (edited 07-26-2010).]

well with my mopar experience ill try and answer your questions...

First I would not worry about finding parts for them since nearly everything is repopped, however I would start with the most complete car you can find. Trim pieces can be the most difficult thing to find, since most cars have unique trim to their year, but even still not THAT hard.

It sounds like the 73 is just a parts car and with my automotive experience I would spend the extra money on the better condition one. I think the biggest thing to look for in those cars is the rear quarters, they rust out ALL the time, you can reach up into the wheel well and feel if it is rusted or not. the rear of the frame, and the very front of the floorboards are also common spots for rust issues. Since I would imagine your going to go through a full restoration on it, you wouldn't really have to check the condition of the suspension since all that would get replaced ideally, but it is a good idea to look at the control arms and k-member to make sure they are solid. I had to hunt down a new K-member for my charger and that was a pain, I eventually gave up and rebuilt the one I have.

Aside from that, those cars can demand quite a price tag when finished. From what your saying, I would not see paying more than about $2000 for the 70 and wouldn't even think about the 73. It sounds just like what you said, a parts car.

Thanks for the info. I forgot to mention that the guy is selling them as a package and he's definitely asking more than $2000 ($4500). I haven't tried talking him down yet though.

Oh and I would be doing a full restoration.

[This message has been edited by GraterFang (edited 07-26-2010).]

First – Get and keep the ’70. Its HIGHLY more sought after than the ’73 which would be better suited for turning into a drag car. A restored ‘70 challenger, even a clone (grab a 340 or a 440 if you wanna make it fun ) and you’ll be taking in $20+k (EASY) provided its done right. As far as the trunk rust, check the frame rails. Those E-body’s as their called, can start rotting out there. Its not difficult to replace, just time consuming. You’ll change the rails and the trunk pan at the same time. Also, check the drip rails (below the rear window) another common area of rust. Only real way to see how bad the frame REALLY is, is to get it sandblasted. This will also allow for a frame off restoration. You’re honestly going to need to sit down and think of how much you can afford to put into it. I take it they were both slant six cars?

383 sb would make it scream!

I wouldn't go more than $2000 and only if you really have to have it!

Thanks for the replies so far!

I think the one of them had a V8 because it has the R/T badging but both engines are gone now. I'm not sure of this though as i have quite a bit to learn about these.

EDIT: It appears that all 73 models came with V8's as well?

[This message has been edited by GraterFang (edited 07-26-2010).]

Cowls by A pillars and rear panel behind rear window, along with trunk inside are very prone to rust. You can buy a complete one from Year One part by part, so finding them is not hard. Since you wont have a number matching car anyway, Id go with a 340 and 727 auto. LOTS of power with decent gas mileage and much better handling. Any of the big block cars are wayyyyyyyyyy nose heavy and wont turn fast and hard any better than an oil tanker. My Coronet (B body) wont take any corner faster than posted signs without hanging the tail out at 45* angle and tires screaming after I put the big block 413 in it. There are tons of upgrades to change all that though. Even though parts are available, be ready to pay for them. A super nice one like I bought a few years back cost me $80K. That was for an original convertible though. Rebuilt as a driver car, Id say it would be worth $25-$30K ready to drive.

------------------

Owner / Operator Custom Paint and Body...
specializing in Corvette & Higher End Autos for 45 years
Ferrari, Mercedes and Porsche Body Repair Approved
____________________________________________

toys: '66 custom Dodge 'Super Bee'
power by 413 SuperStock V8
2008 Mustang Bullet Edition
1977 Cessna 172XP Hawk HiPerf

This will likely chap a bunch of people, but here goes...

If you can swing the financing, buy a new or late model used R/T.
They can be had for mid to upper $20Ks with just a few thousand miles.
By the time you fully restore a 70s model, you will have about that much in it, anyway. Plus a lot of sweat equity.
You can buy regular insurance and use it for a daily driver, as opposed to having to buy collectors insurance with all the associated restrictions.

So where do I get off, posting such madness?
I owned a '73 Barracuda and a '71 Barracuda (same platform as the Challenger.) This was in ~'76-'79. Both of them were rather poor cars, each for different reasons.
OTOH, my '09 R/T is possibly the best built car I have ever owned, as well as being stupidly quick. They also get mid 20s on the highway, with the 5.7 Hemi and the 6 speed.
http://www.challengertalk.com/forums/
Here's a pic of the '71

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 07-26-2010).]

quote Originally posted by Raydar: OTOH, my '09 R/T is possibly the best built car I have ever owned, as well as being stupidly quick.

Late model Chryslers aren't exactly known for their quality.... and...quick is relative, but a 70 Challenger can be made quick as he likes, and he'd have style too...

My vote goes for finding a 1st gen Firebird... .

I have a friend restoring the 70 hardtop. The rust you don't see is the killer. Check around the firewall and dash area really close. His turned out to be like cheese. So far as I can see the advice so far is pretty solid. Get the most complete car. Be prepared though, to strip off allot of body panels. With the rust problem on these cars you can't afford not to.

Good luck with it.

Arn

Thanks to all so far.

So, the general consensus so far is that anything over $2k is too much for a fairly complete '70 roller? I thought his asking price was a bit high but I'm a little surprised by how much. I guess most of the value of these cars is in the restoration then?

quote Originally posted by Raydar: This will likely chap a bunch of people, but here goes... If you can swing the financing, buy a new or late model used R/T. They can be had for mid to upper $20Ks with just a few thousand miles. By the time you fully restore a 70s model, you will have about that much in it, anyway. Plus a lot of sweat equity. You can buy regular insurance and use it for a daily driver, as opposed to having to buy collectors insurance with all the associated restrictions. So where do I get off, posting such madness? I owned a '73 Barracuda and a '71 Barracuda (same platform as the Challenger.) This was in ~'76-'79. Both of them were rather poor cars, each for different reasons. OTOH, my '09 R/T is possibly the best built car I have ever owned, as well as being stupidly quick. They also get mid 20s on the highway, with the 5.7 Hemi and the 6 speed.

Oh and Raydar, while I have no doubt that an 09 R/T can be everything you said it can be it's not really something that I want. As far as newer cars go, they actually look pretty good but I still prefer the styling of the early 70's the most. Newer cars just seem "bloated" to me. In any case, your reasons are sound and if I wanted a good daily driver I would probably follow your advice. However, I'm specifically interested in these cars as a project and long-term dream (I love cudas too btw). Plus, as mentioned, quality and performance can be had for the right price and a lot of work which I'm okay with. I don't expect to be able to get one of these cars and have it be everything I always wanted. But I see them as as an awesome platform from which to start with and there is something about the styling that IMHO is unbeatable.

Out of curiousity, what didn't you like about the 71 and 73 cuda?

[This message has been edited by GraterFang (edited 07-26-2010).]

quote Originally posted by GraterFang: Sorry for my ignorance but what makes the 73 better suited for drag racing?

Just that it isn't as desirable so not as big a deal to chop it up.

I think I would prefer the 70.
Once I get my F150 paid off, besides a Fiero, I will probably only own pre 70`s vehicles.
The newer cars are good, but once they get older they are expensive to fix.
When an older muscle car stops running there isn`t much that can be wrong with it that the average mechanic can`t figure out.

I had a 73 Charger. I loved that car, wish I never had to sell it.
Cars of the 60s and 70s had lines like beautiful women, well some of them.

I would love to have a pre 74 Charger, Challenger or Cuda.

quote Originally posted by Arns85GT: I have a friend restoring the 70 hardtop. The rust you don't see is the killer. Check around the firewall and dash area really close. His turned out to be like cheese. So far as I can see the advice so far is pretty solid. Get the most complete car. Be prepared though, to strip off allot of body panels. With the rust problem on these cars you can't afford not to. Good luck with it. Arn

Front frame rails too. That's what killed my 68 Roadrunner. ( tho now, looking back *anything* is fixable with enough effort and i kick myself every day for letting it go )

quote Originally posted by GraterFang: Thanks to all so far. So, the general consensus so far is that anything over $2k is too much for a fairly complete '70 roller? I thought his asking price was a bit high but I'm a little surprised by how much. I guess most of the value of these cars is in the restoration then? Oh and Raydar, while I have no doubt that an 09 R/T can be everything you said it can be it's not really something that I want. As far as newer cars go, they actually look pretty good but I still prefer the styling of the early 70's the most. Newer cars just seem "bloated" to me. In any case, your reasons are sound and if I wanted a good daily driver I would probably follow your advice. However, I'm specifically interested in these cars as a project and long-term dream (I love cudas too btw). Plus, as mentioned, quality and performance can be had for the right price and a lot of work which I'm okay with. I don't expect to be able to get one of these cars and have it be everything I always wanted. But I see them as as an awesome platform from which to start with and there is something about the styling that IMHO is unbeatable. Out of curiousity, what didn't you like about the 71 and 73 cuda?

$2K for a fairly complete roller is probably decent.
I've seen some of the locals here asking really stupid prices for bare hulls.

You know what you want. I can't fault you for that. I wish you luck with whatever you decide.
Just for grins, check out Craigslist and eBay too.

To answer your question...
My '73 was a zero option car. It had a 318, an A-904 tranny, a slapstick shifter, and nothing else.
It was okay for what it was. It just didn't seem to be very well put together. Seemed like every available shortcut was taken. Right up to the drivers seat being spaced away from the floorpan by 16" lengths of black painted 2x4. It occurred to me that the car may have been wrecked, and that was a "field fix", but the seat track bolts were long enough to pass through the 2x4 and the floorpan and appeared to be original. Nothing about the car seemed to be "pieced together". I never figured that out.
The trunk lid made almost a "clang!" sound when you slammed it. Not the thump that I was accustomed to.
If I had it to do over again, I would have kept the car and added all the power options to it. I just didn't have that kind of mechanical expertise, or the money it would have required.
It was also my daily driver (high school kid) so I couldn't have it down for any length of time.

I sold the '73 to buy the 71. It was much better optioned.
Still had the 318, but had power steering, A/C, a console mounted cassette deck, a 3 speed manual in the floor, houndstooth upholstery, and Rallye gauges, but was not in nearly as good of condition as the '73.
It had electrical issues. Mostly connectors. It had rust in the trunk, and part of the trunk sill was starting to rust away. (Remember, this was only an 8 year old car.)
The A/C duct had a crack, and was constantly dripping water into the floor. Pushing the clutch was a workout, but I understand that old Mopars were all like that. (Figured it had a B&B type, three finger pressure plate.)
In retrospect, it might have been in a flood. The guy I bought it from lived in one of those areas of town.
Other than the rust and the crappy electricals, I never found any other evidence of that, however.

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 07-26-2010).]

I wouldn't go any higher than 2k on those.After buying and installing a drivetran, body panels,interior,emblems and chrome,electrical,
glass,brakes,with hundreds of hours of work a very nice Challenger can be bought for the same money.
I know that sounds extreme on the list of parts but believe me I know I am restoring a Mustang and by the time you get halfway
through the restoration you will hate Challengers.lol.
I know where a Challenger is and the guy priced it to me for $150 about 8 yrs ago.But it is really just a shell,but a great start for a drag car.Alot of people out there are looking to make a quick dollar with muscle cars but in reality they can be purchased at a decent price.I gave too much for my car but the guy wouldn't budge on his price and I really had to have that car.
Good luck on the deal.

The black one in the original post looks like a 71.

Post the first 7 digits of the VIN or figure what it is yourself online and then decide price.

For example: If the 70 is an RT it is easily worth 5k by itself around here. If the 73 is a 318 car it is probably worth about 1k around here.

The market is buyer friendly now so prices are pretty flexible. 2 years ago $5k would maybe get a rusted out shell of a 70 /6 car and that's about it. Prices have dropped a lot since then.

As far as the new Challengers: It will be interesting to see how difficult it is to buy computers and sensors for them in 40 years or maybe even half that time.

Parts are far easier to find (but a lot more expensive) for my 70 Plymouth than for my 87 GLHS.

quote Originally posted by SCCAFiero: The black one in the original post looks like a 71. Post the first 7 digits of the VIN or figure what it is yourself online and then decide price. For example: If the 70 is an RT it is easily worth 5k by itself around here. If the 73 is a 318 car it is probably worth about 1k around here. The market is buyer friendly now so prices are pretty flexible. 2 years ago $5k would maybe get a rusted out shell of a 70 /6 car and that's about it. Prices have dropped a lot since then. As far as the new Challengers: It will be interesting to see how difficult it is to buy computers and sensors for them in 40 years or maybe even half that time. Parts are far easier to find (but a lot more expensive) for my 70 Plymouth than for my 87 GLHS.

All good points, but without numbers matching engine and tranny the R/T badging I would not imagine changing the price that much, but who knows.

It also may be worth checking out some of the stuff in arizona, nm, and texas. You may pay a little more for one of those cars, but you may be able to find one that needs little body repair which can be VERY expensive if you dont have experience doing it yourself and even then can take forever to get done.

I loved my Magnum, same platform as the new Challenger. I even had a Challenger on order and paid for almost a year before they finally came out. Glad I cancelled it though. Other than same general look (by a stretch), they have nothing in common with the old original. The originals are low slung, wide and just look gorgeous. The new one must be a foot taller (or at least looks like it). Dont get me wrong, If I was going to buy a new pony car, Id choose the Challenger. Its just that its like comparing a 59 Caddy to a CTS.

quote Originally posted by TommyRocker: Just that it isn't as desirable so not as big a deal to chop it up.

Yup. '70 was the pinnacle year for challenger and cuda's. As someone already said, its def a buyers market. Prices came back to a more orbital level than they were a couple of years ago. I’ll re-iterate, if you’re going to restore the car, do it right. Restoring those car hap hazardly is a waste of time and money; you won’t get back your investment.