There comes a point in everyone's life, when you need to JUST DO IT! After reading how large the oil spill is, (largest in U.S. history) I really just want the responsible party to cut off the flow. After nearly a month of this constant seepage into the Gulf, I still do not know who is really responsible for the capping, and cleanup of the spill? One story says this. One story says that. From what I see, no one is really doing anything other than complaingin about about the government. Complaining about BP. Stop it! just cap the damn thing. I don't care how difficult the process is, JUST DO IT! I wish that someone would just dump all of the politicians, and BP's staff onto the well head. I bet that with all of the money that these guys make, they could just drop money onto the surface of the ocean, then let the billions just float down and seal the cap.
I'm trying to figure out if it's an arrogance thing, or if it's a "Hey, see? Drilling is bad! Oil is bad! Look what it does to the environment! We can't have oil! Oil is baaaaaaaaad!"
After all, windmills don't kill baby seals. Birds sure, but they aren't worried about that.
...except that "windmills" use oil in their gearboxes...and where does that come from?
IP: Logged
01:40 PM
Rickady88GT Member
Posts: 10648 From: Central CA Registered: Dec 2002
There comes a point in everyone's life, when you need to JUST DO IT! After reading how large the oil spill is, (largest in U.S. history) I really just want the responsible party to cut off the flow. After nearly a month of this constant seepage into the Gulf, I still do not know who is really responsible for the capping, and cleanup of the spill? One story says this. One story says that. From what I see, no one is really doing anything other than complaingin about about the government. Complaining about BP. Stop it! just cap the damn thing. I don't care how difficult the process is, JUST DO IT! I wish that someone would just dump all of the politicians, and BP's staff onto the well head. I bet that with all of the money that these guys make, they could just drop money onto the surface of the ocean, then let the billions just float down and seal the cap.
I understand your frustration. All politics aside, this is a VERRRRY difficult problem to tackle. That well is VERRRY deep and very few companies even have skill or equipment to get near it. I have not heard any estimates on how much pressure is in that pipe but I bet it is a lot. Imagine stopping the water from a garden hose with your finger. IF you could do it think about the spray that would soak you trying. Then imagine trying to plug that pipe 5,000 feet under water with remote vehicles that wont be able to see what is going on when the oil sprays all over like the garden hose.
No matter how frustrated we get, the problem is devastating to BP's image and pocketbook and that alone is enough to get them to work as hard a humanly possible to rectify the situation. They don't "need" any other pressure or motivation to get them to fix the well. They could use more hands on deck and more "tools" for sure but the ideas and from other sources are priceless right now.
IP: Logged
01:43 PM
82-T/A [At Work] Member
Posts: 22978 From: Florida USA Registered: Aug 2002
It seems you want to talk logically and factually about this topic. Hey, I'm right with you then. It isn't the president's job to intervene in an oil spill per se.
Using logic and fact, it wasn't Bush's job to handle the Hurricane Katrina situation. It was local and state government's job. Bush's role was via FEMA, which was to supply funding and supplies to the citizens and local and state governments.
Instead of that factual discussion, the democrats and the media turned it into a failure on the president's part even though it was never his job to intervene.
So why isn't Obama getting the same unfair treatment in the media is my question. It isn't like I don't already know the answer.
This IS BP's job to fix and pay for. However, due to the prolonged situation of them NOT fixing it, and due to the potential environmental impact, I do believe the government has a right to step in and demand action, and to offer help.
So...indeed, why hasn't Obama in this situation where he actually COULD do something to help the situation, not done it? And why hasn't he been endlessly grilled with questioning about it?
(or has he? I don't know since I don't watch the 'news')
It's the president's responsibility to ensure the safety, longevity, and propserity of America. That includes everything from trade agreements to foreign affairs.
Oil washing up on our shores IS our problem. That's OUR land, OUR contract lease to the oil platform company and BP to drill there, and our shores that are now being "attacked" by this oil sludge.
This is every bit the responsibility of our president to ensure that everything is being done properly. HOW and WHAT he does is a different story. It can go TWO ways in the future:
1 - He can do what Hugo Chavez did... if he decides to nationalize the oil platform companies.... that's socilism.
2 - If he decides to increase scrutiny for oil platform safety and regulations... that's being responsible. It will ALSO create more jobs because it will require the oil companies to be more "up" on their maintenance... SO... parts suppliers who both build and sell parts for oil platforms will now have to hire more employees to make more parts more frequently. The government doesn't spend any money, and the economy grows.
quote
Originally posted by Mickey_Moose:
...except that "windmills" use oil in their gearboxes...and where does that come from?
Obviously, the windmills are for show now. They were meant for doing everything from mixing paint to grinding grain, to cleaning clothes...
The oil that was used to keep the wood and metal parts lubricated back in those days came from animal fat, not petroleum.
I hear you Rickaddy. I wish that the U.S. and BP would welcome all of the help availabe to them. After Cliff posted up about not taking help from his country, I just feel that every avenue should be pursued.
The amount af pressure at 5000 plus feet has to be just "mind bottling." (You know, when your thoughts are all bottled up.) My theories of capping the well are definately not reallity. I mean, can you really just dump people and money into the sea, and think that it will plug the hole? Well, can you? I wonder just how many politicians, and BP executives it would take? Obvious sarcasm...
(I think that sometimes when I write, I sound more angry than I really am?)
IP: Logged
01:53 PM
frontal lobe Member
Posts: 9042 From: brookfield,wisconsin Registered: Dec 1999
BP has the equipment to work at 5,000 feet down and the Government does not. At the surface is a different story.
OK. So on the surface is a different story.
Cliff said the Dutch have FAR superior surface oil clean up capability. And that would help protect our environment and our shores. Why isn't Obama doing anything regarding pressuring BP to have them get help in that?
IP: Logged
02:28 PM
ryan.hess Member
Posts: 20784 From: Orlando, FL Registered: Dec 2002
Gert Kampers from the dutch company Koseq, and inventor of a special ship that "sweeps up" oil can't understand the US unwillingness to call for help. "They are now using 568 ships in vain for something we can successfully do with only 4 ships. Just one of our ships can clean up about 9,000 cubic feet of oil every hour. That's almost 40,000 cubic feet per hour using 4 ships. And that's the amount being spilled by the leaks. BP also chooses to use chemicals which has as a side effect that some of the oil doesn't rise to the surface. That's downright criminal and extremely dangerous to the environment."
We have these type of ships here too. I know of at least two, the Valdez Star and the Shearwater. They are called oil skimmers. The problem is that the leak is a lot larger than is being reported. Look at picture number 23 here: http://www.boston.com/bigpi...aches_louisiana.html to see one type of skimmer being used.
It was first things first for the drilling company:
quote
ZUG, SWITZERLAND, May 13, 2010 (MARKETWIRE via COMTEX) --Transocean Ltd. (NYSE: RIG) (SIX: RIGN) today announced that, at the instruction of its insurers and in order to preserve insurance coverage, several of its affiliated companies have filed a petition in U.S. District Court for the Southern District of Texas, in Houston, under the federal Limitation of Shipowner's Liability Act in connection with the recent Deepwater Horizon casualty.
Transocean said it believes this step is necessary to protect the interests of its employees, its shareholders and the company.
Litigation in the Exxon Valdez case went on for twenty years. I bet this case will last longer.
IP: Logged
03:32 PM
Doug85GT Member
Posts: 9486 From: Sacramento CA USA Registered: May 2003
Cliff said the Dutch have FAR superior surface oil clean up capability. And that would help protect our environment and our shores. Why isn't Obama doing anything regarding pressuring BP to have them get help in that?
Cause he is hoping Kevin Costner's magical mystery machines will turn water into wine! I'm assuming Costner is a liberal.
Edit to add winkie. I was being facetious (sp?).
[This message has been edited by Cheever3000 (edited 05-27-2010).]
From what i saw in the news they plan to dumb a bunch of concrete into the ocean where the oil is leaking out. Talk about a bandaid on a broken leg.
quote
Not exactly. They are going to stuff thousands of gallons of "mud" and concrete INTO the drilled hole. That would be stronger than the original earth removed to get to the oil.
Both incorrect. They are pumping thousands of BARRELS (each bbl = 42 gallons) of heavy kill weight mud down into the well bore at a rate of about 40 bbls/minute (I think that is the pump rate).
This has too be done slowly, as it would be very easy, with a weight/gal of mud being around 18 lbs/gal, to rupture the casing, making it an even worse problem. The goal, is to force the column of oil and gas back down hole and back into the formation it is coming from. Will this hydrostatic head be sufficient to do the trick? I dunno. It really depends where the leak is coming from. If the leaking formation is located rel;atively high, there won't be much hydrostat above it. If it's down low, then maybe it will, but then too, the lower the offending formation is, the more risk you run of over pressuring the casing and blowing it out.
BTW, the govt will take control either right before--or right after BP has the well under control. And not before. Mark my words on this.
[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 05-27-2010).]
IP: Logged
05:20 PM
frontal lobe Member
Posts: 9042 From: brookfield,wisconsin Registered: Dec 1999
Originally posted by ryan.hess: Wait wait wait....... you want the government to interfere in the business of a private company???
I know you are joking.
But the serious answer is that I don't want the government interfering in the BUSINESS of a private company. This isn't interfering with their BUSINESS. This is intervening in their damaging public and private lands.
We have a LONG history of having government environmental protections that businesses have to follow. My complaints with government intervention in that arena has been when in my opinion the OVER-regulation isn't beneficial enough to the environment to merit the cost.
I don't think ANY one by ANY stretch of the imagination would say that the government intervening in THIS particular environmental impact would be over-stepping governments reasonable role in enforcing environmental responsibility on a company.
So if BP isn't adequately managing the impact of their oil spill, get the government involved to do the clean up adequately and if need be, hire the dutch to do it right, and then stick BP with the bill.
No inconsistency on my part whatsoever, but it was probably fun for you and that is completely ok with me. OK to have a little fun together, too.
IP: Logged
05:35 PM
TommyRocker Member
Posts: 2808 From: Woodstock, IL Registered: Dec 2009
Maryjane......It is refreshing to have someone in this discussion with pertinant information. I know that my endless babbles probably don't help, but the information that you have provided in this, and other threads is just priceless.
IP: Logged
05:41 PM
rogergarrison Member
Posts: 49601 From: A Western Caribbean Island/ Columbus, Ohio Registered: Apr 99
Vast majority of us dont like Obama either. Hes a complete moron and the party supporting him are also all complete morons. He wouldnt accept a rope thrown to him if he was drowning in a whirlpool because his arrogance would tell him he can swim out on his own. He only got in office because of all his false promices and out and out lies. You remember what Hitler did to the Dutch.........rest my case.
Tony--I have no offshore experience at all other than pumping naturally occuring radioactive waste down the backside of an abandoned well, but spent about 18 years working for a land based drilling company as a roughneck and mechanic, and then 8-9 more years in various well related companies, so I have a basic understanding of downhole procedures.
Looks like they may be close to stabilizing this one, but it isn't stable enough for the mud alone to hold the pressure down---they still have to hold some pressure on it from topside pumps, tho not near as much as it took to initially get the mud to force the oil back into the formation. If news reports are accurate, hydrocabons (oil/gas) are no longer leaking, just excess mud. IF/when they get it stalized (a balanced condition) they will begin pumping cement down to replace the column of mud. The cement is heavier/gal than the mud. This will mark the beginning of the end of this well, as they will P&A it. (plug and abandon).
Vast majority of us dont like Obama either. Hes a complete moron and the party supporting him are also all complete morons. He wouldnt accept a rope thrown to him if he was drowning in a whirlpool because his arrogance would tell him he can swim out on his own. He only got in office because of all his false promices and out and out lies. You remember what Hitler did to the Dutch.........rest my case.
I will be quite surprised, if Obama fails to accept some of these offers after the well is completely killed, providing the foreign companies use Gulf Coast labor as much as possible. The President and his cadre know they can't begin to match the oil & gas industry as far as well expertise goes, so they pretty much stayed out of the well control part of the endeavor, (thank God) but this administration would love nothing more than to take over and give this industry a bigger black eye than they currently have--by saying--"WE had to bring in outside technology to clean up your mess".
If the well is still under control tomorrow morning--and there's still a very good chance it can come roaring back--I fully expect the feds to suddenly grow a set and take over--AFTER the high risk part is done. As long as BP pays for it all, I don't really care who does the cleanup---it should NOT fall on the US taxpayer.
IP: Logged
06:34 PM
proff Member
Posts: 7393 From: The bottom of the world Registered: Oct 2004
I heard there is More to the oil spill something to do with Military testing and the US government
I heard it was aliens from Planet Whazoo. They hate crabs and all other shellfish and travel the universe in an effort to destroy every last vestige of anything resembling a shrimp or crawfish.
IP: Logged
07:42 PM
rogergarrison Member
Posts: 49601 From: A Western Caribbean Island/ Columbus, Ohio Registered: Apr 99
Ok, the oil spill is a bad thing. BUT, Im getting sick of hearing from everyone on TV talking about this is the worst oil disaster in history. Its a clear fact if anyone looks them up this one estimated to be as little as 11 million gals and as much as 30 million, is not even in the top 50. Some others that no one really cared about were up to 800 million. Again, this one is bad, but if they keep lying about it Im going to go from pulling my hair out to wanting someone to blow up about 10 more of them to give them something more to talk about. By comparison to the real facts about the largest oil spills, this one is like me throwing a drinking glass of oil into my 1 acre yard. Love to tap a huge oil tank into the white house water system and give em some oil, some of which would go up their azzes.
IP: Logged
07:44 PM
avengador1 Member
Posts: 35467 From: Orlando, Florida Registered: Oct 2001
Cliff said the Dutch have FAR superior surface oil clean up capability. And that would help protect our environment and our shores. Why isn't Obama doing anything regarding pressuring BP to have them get help in that?
Stopping the oil spill is one thing, the "clean up" is a totally different animal. The "plug" is technical and the clean up is political. Obama is a LIAR and is incompetent, arrogant, unqualified sorry excuse of a leader. The governments dereliction of duty is the BIGGEST problem. The BHO lames can make all the excuses they want but the blame for the lame response is on them. By default Obama is the most responsible, that is as long as we follow the democratic pattern of Catrina.
It is SOO IRONIC to me that a administration of "green" "echo friendly" "tree hugging" "enviromaniacs" did not even lift a FINGER for a MONTH to stop this. INFACT the "pressure" is from the regular every day Joe on the administration to get off there butt to do some thing.
I LOVE THE IRONY HERE.......HAHAHAHA
Now in all seriousness the government NEEDS to send Military ships to off shore rigs to prevent any further well fires caused by terrorists. IF I were one, I would target them all and blow them all up. That would absolutely devastate the USA. BUT who am I, just an every day Joe. This administration surely must have thought about this and has a plan.......right?
IP: Logged
10:34 PM
Rickady88GT Member
Posts: 10648 From: Central CA Registered: Dec 2002
Both incorrect. They are pumping thousands of BARRELS (each bbl = 42 gallons) of heavy kill weight mud down into the well bore at a rate of about 40 bbls/minute (I think that is the pump rate).
And so exactly how am I wrong? Mud is exactly what the drilling industry calls it. And they are going to mix concrete with the mud. AND I dont know how much mud they will use (they don't know either by the way) but it will for sure be in the thousands of gallons.
IP: Logged
10:44 PM
May 28th, 2010
jstricker Member
Posts: 12956 From: Russell, KS USA Registered: Apr 2002
First of all, the US Government didn't cause this, it was an accident that happened to BP's exploration endeavors. Now BP is owned 43% by interests in the UK and the rest of Europe. I suggest you ask THEM why they haven't taken up your country's offers to help, rather than ask the US citizens, Cliff. BP is a private, international corporation, not a US Government owned company (at least not yet) and they are responsible for containing and cleaning up this mess.
John Stricker
quote
Originally posted by Cliff Pennock:
We here in Europe are watching in ever growing dismay how the US is destroying ecosystems and wildlife by not doing what needs to be done to stop this oil spill. We have the technology to contain the spill. The US government knows this yet they do not want our help.
IP: Logged
12:17 AM
PFF
System Bot
jstricker Member
Posts: 12956 From: Russell, KS USA Registered: Apr 2002
It's the president's responsibility to ensure the safety, longevity, and propserity of America. That includes everything from trade agreements to foreign affairs.
Where does it say that in the Constitution or the President's Oath of Office?
John Stricker
IP: Logged
12:27 AM
fierobear Member
Posts: 27083 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
And so exactly how am I wrong? Mud is exactly what the drilling industry calls it. And they are going to mix concrete with the mud. AND I dont know how much mud they will use (they don't know either by the way) but it will for sure be in the thousands of gallons.
You said thousands of gallons. Incorrect. It will not be in thousands of gallons--it will be many 100s of thousands of gallons--perhaps millions of gallons. Well bore/casing volume capacity is never in gallons--always barrels. The media uses gallons in their reporting, because it sounds so much more sensational.
But as seen in news media terms--If BP pumped at their proposed pump rate of 40 barrels/minute, they pumped 1,680 gallons in the very 1st minute alone. X 60 minutes, they pumped 100,800 gallons in the first hr of top kill operations. If they pumped against the well for 12 hrs, which may well be the case, they have already pumped over 1.2 million gallons of mud in the top kill effort. Their total pump capacity on scene is reported by BP to be 35,000 HP. They'll need every pony.
[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 05-28-2010).]
Can somebody good at photoshop do a BP (Barak Petroleum) logo?
Something like a melting of:
and
Who ever does I bet it will go viral on the net.
This is the best I could do. I'm sure someone could do way better than me. EDIT** Okay, not the best. But I didn't feel like putting forth any more time.
[This message has been edited by theBDub (edited 05-28-2010).]
(To replace my reply that rode the thunder last night Interesting Q&A discussion about the top kill operation here.
Anyone can send in questions if it is still open to comment. Answers provided by: Greg McCormack Director, Petroleum Extension Service, University of Texas
One of the questions and it's answer verified what I had remarked upon last week in a related thread, that oil is always spilling into the oceans and sea--naturally.
quote
Bowie, Md.: Without human intervention, what will ultimately happen to the oil that's been spilled? Will it eventually evaporate; dissolve; sink to the bottom?
Greg McCormack: Oil in the Gulf Of Mexico will be ultimately degraded by the weather, processed by naturally occurring bacteria which live on organic matter and some will sink to the sea floor. There are approximately 500,000 to a 1,000,000 bbls of oil a year natural "seeping" into the Gulf of Mexico which have allowed carbon loving bacteria to thrive and grow.
UBB bold and underline tags are mine.
[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 05-28-2010).]
IP: Logged
09:01 AM
frontal lobe Member
Posts: 9042 From: brookfield,wisconsin Registered: Dec 1999
"Obama, feeling pressure to act in a crisis now in its sixth week, yanked the exploratory drilling permits for 33 deepwater rigs in the gulf and suspended planned exploration in two areas off the coast of Alaska. He announced the moves at a Thursday news conference carried on cable TV channels that simultaneously showed the live video feed of effluent billowing from the cracked riser pipe at the bottom of the gulf.
Obama pushed back on suggestions that, as he put it, "BP is off running around doing whatever it wants and nobody is minding the store." He said that his administration is doing all it can, but that, when it comes to plugging the leak, "the federal government does not possess superior technology to BP."
He is going to Louisiana today to a meeting. Well, it is obvious it is for political purposes as a show. I don't care if he goes to the gulf. He can get all the information he needs sitting in Chicago. There is nothing knowledge-wise he gains by going there. It is all for show.
Then, instead of acting on what is happening, his action is to yank exploration permits. I agree with him that the government doesn't know what it is doing regarding capping the oil well. But the COULD and SHOULD have been pressuring and threatening BP about doing better with the clean-up. And SHOULD be doing that right now. Instead? He stops exploration. Wow. Way to take decisive action to protect the environment.
IP: Logged
11:31 AM
texasfiero Member
Posts: 4674 From: Houston, TX USA Registered: Jun 2003
"Obama, feeling pressure to act in a crisis now in its sixth week, yanked the exploratory drilling permits for 33 deepwater rigs in the gulf and suspended planned exploration in two areas off the coast of Alaska. He announced the moves at a Thursday news conference carried on cable TV channels that simultaneously showed the live video feed of effluent billowing from the cracked riser pipe at the bottom of the gulf.
Obama pushed back on suggestions that, as he put it, "BP is off running around doing whatever it wants and nobody is minding the store." He said that his administration is doing all it can, but that, when it comes to plugging the leak, "the federal government does not possess superior technology to BP."
He is going to Louisiana today to a meeting. Well, it is obvious it is for political purposes as a show. I don't care if he goes to the gulf. He can get all the information he needs sitting in Chicago. There is nothing knowledge-wise he gains by going there. It is all for show.
Then, instead of acting on what is happening, his action is to yank exploration permits. I agree with him that the government doesn't know what it is doing regarding capping the oil well. But the COULD and SHOULD have been pressuring and threatening BP about doing better with the clean-up. And SHOULD be doing that right now. Instead? He stops exploration. Wow. Way to take decisive action to protect the environment.
"Never let a crisis go to waste". For Barck Obama, this is NOT about solving America's energy crisis, it isn't about fixing the spill or the cleanup. What it IS about is his political gain.
"Why doesn't the US want our help?" - He doesn't WANT it! It is NOT to his advantage.
IP: Logged
11:54 AM
Pyrthian Member
Posts: 29569 From: Detroit, MI Registered: Jul 2002
"Never let a crisis go to waste". For Barck Obama, this is NOT about solving America's energy crisis, it isn't about fixing the spill or the cleanup. What it IS about is his political gain.
"Why doesn't the US want our help?" - He doesn't WANT it! It is NOT to his advantage.
yup. it sure smells that way.
yes, we all know it is a no-win situation to get involved - but - sorry - involvement is needed. if nothing else there needs to be someone holding feet to fire
yes, we all know it is a no-win situation to get involved - but - sorry - involvement is needed. if nothing else there needs to be someone holding feet to fire
Quoted, so you will always remember you are in 100% agreement with that concept.
I wonder just how many politicians, and BP executives it would take? Obvious sarcasm... 
