Since I've never served, I can't say that I know what it will do for moral when you're in a company with several black soldiers who might have different views on it. Regardless of what it might actually mean, it would be silly to think that the majority of black people don't see it as racist (even if that was created by liberal revisionists, and yes... I have seen that black guy that walks around dressed as a confederate, so no one bother posting that video... we've all seen it).
That said, I will say something that's been horrendously obvious to me. Any time we have a Democrat president, they issue orders, decrees, and he puts people in charge of various departments where by that kind of beleif system is therefore mandated all the way down.
Look, lets just be honest about this... liberal Presidents do NOT like the military, and they do NOT like secret service departments. It's been a huge misconception that all the agencies like the NSA, DOD, etc... are all rouge entities that go about their own business. That's simply not true. Every single thing that happens from these agencies is as a DIRECT result of a request or action that was agreed upon by the President. Each agency, NSA, FBI, etc... they all have committies that meet with the president on the regular basis.
Granted, Obama won't say... "Joe, I want you to go to Pakistan and talk to this guy..." but he will say... "We need to talk to this group and get to understand them better."
BECAUSE of the way the president is SO intricately involved in the security and military in our country, his political views trickle down the ENTIRE tree. The culture of the president ends up resonating throughout government into every single agency.
You could honestly say that the reason, right or wrong, why we've had so many attacks on our country (although they all thankfully failed) is because of the abhorant feelings our president has towards this type of profiling and other methods that had been done by previous administrations.
So this "interpretation" of the Confederate flag in this manner is being done as a DIRECT result of Obama being president. His culture and belief system has resonated down through the branches through committee...
It is what it is... like it or hate it, but that's the reason. Obama may not be directly responsible for it, but his actions and culture has trickled down either by his direction or his direct appointments.
I don't care how you sugar-coat it. This country has turned into a big solid mass of pathetic whining and pandering to the whiners. It makes me sick to my stomach.
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01:39 PM
Doug85GT Member
Posts: 10003 From: Sacramento CA USA Registered: May 2003
hmm, should at least ask the recruits what they think it stands for.
I guess this shows people how to avoid a draft? Just get a stinkin tattoo of a flag with a stars ans stripes X on it.
That won't get you out of a draft. Rules like this will be relaxed or outright ignored during war time. Then when peace returns, the military will clean house of anyone that remains that would not have been accepted during peace time. And yes, this includes gays in the military too.
I don't agree with those practices. I am just telling you how it works. There are two recruiting standards.
Great now the Marine corp is becoming PC ! :thumbsdown: Marines kill thats what we do who cares if another devil dog gets offended because of a tattoo. Sounds like the offended one needs to grow some f#%king thicker skin. The last thing we need is our military to be staffed with a bunch of candy a$$ puSSy's
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ARCHIES JUNK IS FASTER THAN SHAUNNA'S JUNK
12.3 is faster than a 13.2
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02:12 PM
Derek_85GT Member
Posts: 1623 From: Flipadelphia, PA Registered: Mar 2005
I don't care how you sugar-coat it. This country has turned into a big solid mass of pathetic whining and pandering to the whiners. It makes me sick to my stomach.
The truth.
~ Derek
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02:25 PM
82-T/A [At Work] Member
Posts: 25577 From: Florida USA Registered: Aug 2002
You guys either didn't read what I said or are missing the point. As soon as you get a conservative president in the whitehouse, these kinds of things change. Although the same rule might apply, it won't be intpreted as such...
I remember shortly after I enlisted in the Army, the "Clinton's Army" went into effect. The "don't ask, don't tell" policy was enacted, boot camp was shortened by a week, and so on.
People tend to forget that the President is Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces. As such, he basically sets military policy. So yes, policies will change as Presidents come and go. That's just how it works. And if you don't like these types of policies, don't vote for this type of person as President!
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03:18 PM
MidEngineManiac Member
Posts: 29566 From: Some unacceptable view Registered: Feb 2007
So we tell this young man that he cant serve his country because of a tattoo but young men and women have stood a line and died so he has the right to the tattoo? We tell him that the symbol of his ancestors is a racists symbol of hate and denied him that which we will gladly give someone that isn't a citizen of this country. We tell him this because another group says its racist.
As an American I'm offended.
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03:50 PM
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texasfiero Member
Posts: 4674 From: Houston, TX USA Registered: Jun 2003
So we tell this young man that he cant serve his country because of a tattoo but young men and women have stood a line and died so he has the right to the tattoo? We tell him that the symbol of his ancestors is a racists symbol of hate and denied him that which we will gladly give someone that isn't a citizen of this country. We tell him this because another group says its racist.
As an American I'm offended.
As a father of a soldier who was at Ft. Hood on Nov. 5, I'm also offended.
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03:55 PM
Fformula88 Member
Posts: 7891 From: Buffalo, NY Registered: Mar 2000
You guys either didn't read what I said or are missing the point. As soon as you get a conservative president in the whitehouse, these kinds of things change. Although the same rule might apply, it won't be intpreted as such...
I read it and agree, that there is always a trickle down effect from the CiC. This goes for all agencies too, not just the security agencies and military.
It's easy to see why. Not only is he the head of all this and dictating policy. He is also appointing cabinet secretaries to run agencies, who appoint their friends to undersecretary positions, and so on down the line for a while. I'd say at least the top 5 levels of an agency are directly political, although only the top two or three change each administration. (At least based on my own observations as a civil grunt worker). Even below these levels, most management moves up the chain playing the political game. As such, they all pander to the higher up's point of view and fall in line.
So, when a directive comes from the white house, everyone gets in line like baby ducks imprinting on their mother, declares it a "brilliant" idea, and procedes to implement it. Even the lower level career managers do this because, well, it is their career. They will be with the agency past the current administration, but their good evaluations and immediate promotion potential is always dictated by the current administration's policies, not the last one or the next one. So they get in line every time.
The plus in this is that the agencies ARE directly answerable to the President, and they do what they are instructed to do. So your right, there are not any "rogue" agencies running around either. If only some of the common sense and ground floor knowledge would head back up the chain when bad ideas get tossed around before they become policy.
Yep, strictly a result of who is sitting in the White House. None of the military services have any choice in this. I do wonder about the career soldier, sailor, Marine or airman that has been in for 10 years and has had the tatto for his entire enlistment. Do we have another Don't Ask, Don't Tell scenerio?
Ron
[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 05-05-2010).]
I wasn't even born in the south, none of my family are from the south, I was born in Ohio and the furthest south any of my ancestors were born is Kentucky and I'm still offended. It has nothing to do with the Flag or the tattoo its what this country is suppose to be all about. We are truly lost.
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04:05 PM
MidEngineManiac Member
Posts: 29566 From: Some unacceptable view Registered: Feb 2007
I remember shortly after I enlisted in the Army, the "Clinton's Army" went into effect. The "don't ask, don't tell" policy was enacted, boot camp was shortened by a week, and so on.
People tend to forget that the President is Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces. As such, he basically sets military policy. So yes, policies will change as Presidents come and go. That's just how it works. And if you don't like these types of policies, don't vote for this type of person as President!
In previous conversations I've been completely unable to refer to Obama or Clinton as that. I almost think it's an insult to all military persons for him to be called that. The longer he's in office, the greater my disdain for him becomes.
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05:52 PM
kyunderdawg Member
Posts: 4373 From: Bowling Green, KY. USA Registered: Aug 2008
Somoans (hawaii) and North Carolinians are the best fighters ,,not to many Somoans in the crotch,,True Fighten men are the type to get a star & bar dixie tatoo ,, ..This rule means a lot of hardcase eyeshooters are lost to the corp and these are the type of men you need,, not overly friendly Gay panty boys who might comfort you with an on the sly foxhole vacuum cleaner ajustment. ... the best joint chief since moderate Curtis Lemay was replaced when he said queers in the corp were a REALLY bad Idea..General Pace was right from central casting,handsome and carried his balls in a wheel barrow ,,how this stud got to be a 3 star is a miracle ,,he was put up for joint chief again, 100%approval when his comments about Gays brought in a what ever you democrats want replacement.. ..Im sure there are a lot of queers in the corp now ,even some in the grunts,,There is a push to make all Marine jobs the same,equal in the eyes of all,a clerk is the same as a Grunt !! It ain,t so,,never will be so..Every menber of the Marine team is important .. I know,,queers are hated by the average grunt ,,The eyeshooters/killers will hate them doublely so..It aint like a regular job,,its nasty,,suffering "then" the work of the devil,,A lot of grunts know what wet work is!!!..
I was never brave ,but when the hard case looked back he knew I would be there.. do you understand ??
[This message has been edited by uhlanstan (edited 05-05-2010).]
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10:20 PM
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May 6th, 2010
Jarhead 2m4 Member
Posts: 1849 From: Missouri City, TX Registered: Jun 2006
So we tell this young man that he cant serve his country because of a tattoo but young men and women have stood a line and died so he has the right to the tattoo? We tell him that the symbol of his ancestors is a racists symbol of hate and denied him that which we will gladly give someone that isn't a citizen of this country. We tell him this because another group says its racist.
As an American I'm offended.
Well said, I am too.
quote
Originally posted by Jarhead 2m4:
If we aren't concerned what color a man's skin is, why do they care what color ink is in his skin?
You are also correct, after all the difference is black and white.
Someone tell me we don't have a racist in the big seat in D.C.
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07:35 AM
blackrams Member
Posts: 33154 From: Covington, TN, USA Registered: Feb 2003
The thought just occurred to me that if the Stars and Bars are banned, then why isn't any tat banned?
Surely some of you have seen the scars and tats many of the ethinic minority fraternities display. Are they racist? They seem to only have minority members.
Or, would that be racial profiling?
I would think if the Stars and Bars were banned, then the scars and tats of such organizations would also be not allowed in any military service.
Interesting, doesn't appear to be a two way street, does it?
Ron
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08:03 AM
Uaana Member
Posts: 6570 From: Robbinsdale MN US Registered: Dec 1999
Ok, and this is speaking from 20 years ago. The Corps used to be fairly strict on ink in general. Nothing below the shoulder, no face, neck etc. Basically you had to be clean should you end up on embassy duty or similar posting. I can agree with that.
If it's not visible with the uniform on, then it should be a non-issue. If certain groups can be "branded" with an Omega then getting a battle flag on the shoulder shouldnt be that big a deal. Odd thing being.. The Corps just seems / seemed to have a "southern" vibe
Nope, I actually got my USMC tat while in Grunt School at Camp Pendleton. My Platoon Leader thought it was great but he did tell me that if it got infected and I missed any training because of it I'd be in trouble. Never missed a minute of training but, was sure wishing for some rest time on that fifty mile field march, my dogs were killing me. BTW, I was honorman of my class.
...The Marine corp was the last service to integrate ,, there were very FEW blacks in the corp untill they were forced upon the corp because of Viet Nam.. ..the majority of Blacks were from the P.R. the confederate flag was a common tat,very common was an old reb bearded soldier carying a rebel flag,often with some comment" "the south will rise again"".The Marine corp emblem was the most common Tatoo.. In the early 60,sTatoos were not common,,even bikers did not have tatoos ,,unless they had been in the military,,a man with a tatoo had been in the military ..My father had a blood mark,,you knew a girl was a whore if she had a tatoo.. ...the only tatoos that were not frowned on,, upon the fore arm were blood marks ,,I can not remember a tatoo on a Marine under 10 years service ,on a fore arm that was not a bloodmark ,,Im sure there were some..many grunts had blood marks ..many Sailors had fore arm tatoos,or tatoos all over thier body ,,you never saw a young man with a lot of tatoos,,you had to have really been there,, done that.. 25% of Marines had a USMC tatoo of some sort
my favorite tatoo ?? I love my mom almost as much as I love the corp My second fave NUKE JAPAN AGAIN,, a lot of Marine hated the filthy Japs ,, THE Japs were cruel Monsters who did not get what they truly deserved ,,the older Marines hated them with a passion..Our young men do not know this,,.do not understand it.
[This message has been edited by uhlanstan (edited 05-07-2010).]
got pictures? 
J/K 
I bet BHO wouldn't disband his secret service body guards. 
BTW, I was honorman of my class. 
