So with my bike I was only getting 10,000 miles on a tire. So I had some of these laying around and figured wtf, might as well try it. What do you think?
Yeah that's the '67 in the background For sure much more square than a motorcycle tire
So any thoughts?
IP: Logged
09:18 PM
PFF
System Bot
pokeyfiero Member
Posts: 16233 From: Free America! Registered: Dec 2003
If you had gone a little bit wider, you could have eliminated the kickstand.
I guess the most important question is, "How does it handle?"
It tends to go straight more. Actually that charistic is nice most of the time. It's not nice in a parking lot, but quite nice going straight or on the highway.
I had to cut the "cages" that held the square nuts of the fender so they didn't rub. The big square nuts were far enough away but the sheet metal that retained them would have hit.
[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 04-01-2010).]
IP: Logged
09:32 PM
phonedawgz Member
Posts: 17106 From: Green Bay, WI USA Registered: Dec 2009
So with my bike I was only getting 10,000 miles on a tire. So I had some of these laying around and figured wtf, might as well try it. What do you think?
So any thoughts?
What do I think? I think theres a reason one tends to get fewer miles out of a motorcycle tire, probably has to do with the hardness of the rubber compound used, motorcycle street tires tend to be softer than a comparable car tire. You may find the car tire wears bad on the edges where most motorcycle tires are meant to be ridden almost on the sidewall during cornering. What pressure are you running? Seems like it would hydroplane easy, and the contact patch when cornering seems like it would be very minimal.
Might do in a pinch but I don't think it would be my first choice.
------------------ Dealing with failure is easy: work hard to improve. Success is also easy to handle: you've solved the wrong problem, work hard to improve.
IP: Logged
10:14 PM
MidEngineManiac Member
Posts: 29566 From: Some unacceptable view Registered: Feb 2007
I will attempt to do this in a FAQ (frequently asked question) format:
What is your experience on motorcycles? I have been riding for over 25 years on a large variety of machines. I would guestimate (technical term) that I have ridden well over half a million miles. Much of that is in Texas and other southwestern states, but I have ridden all over the nation. I have ridden in rain, hail, snow, mud, gravel/dirt, extreme heat, extreme cold, and many other conditions.
Why would you even consider putting a car tire on a motorcycle? Motorcycle tires are a pet peeve of mine. I have ridden a lot of miles, and so have a lot of experience with different makes and models of tires on a variety of different machines.
To point out my peeve with motorcycle tires, first I will discuss car tires just a moment:
25 years ago, a tire for my car cost $35 and lasted about 30,000 miles. Occasional failures of tread or bead/such were expected, but not frequent.
Today, a tire for my car costs $90 and lasts 70,000 miles. Failures are unacceptable and very unusual and are covered by extensive warranties. We've tripled the price and more than doubled the miles. In addition the technologies have made them handle better in cornering, wet-traction, braking, and heat-shed than ever before.
By contrast, 25 years ago, a tire for my motorcycle cost about $20 and I could expect it to last 8000-10,000 miles. Failures were common and there was no warranty coverage beyond the first install. The tire maker would provide instructions and materials on the safest and permanent way to repair a simple puncture.
Today, a tire for my motorcycle costs just over $200 and I can only expect it to last 8000-10,000 miles. The price is 10 times higher and I can expect no additional miles. Failures are frequent and there is no warranty coverage beyond that it will hold air when you first install it. The manufacturers will look you in the eye and inform you that there is no-way, no-how that a single puncture can be repaired-throw the tire away. Although there have been technology improvements in the super-gummy race-bike tires, the cruiser tires perform about the same as they did when I started riding.
My point here is that motorcycle tires for my street bike are 25-year old technology, at prices we should not see for another 50 years when compared to car tires. They've got us, and they know it. Why develop new or keep prices competitive, when folks will (must) by the crap you were putting on the street 25 years ago? Simply, we are a niche market. A manafacturer will sell more car tires in a day, than motorcycle tires in a lifetime. Their R&D money goes to the car tire market. The meager development done in the motorcycle world is concentrated on the race circuit, where the publicity really is. Those tires are doing truely amazing things, but are not suitable for the street.
Tires developed for the high-performance, low-profile street cars of today, particularly for the custom/performance sect have the sizes and characteristics (and quality) that make them a possibility for this project.
Over the years I have experienced every kind of failure imaginable on motorcycle tires. Defective beads, bubbling, blistering, cracking, tread/carcass separation, radical balance deficiencies, out of round, wobble, and just the outright failure to actually hold air have found their way onto my machines. Just for the Valkyrie alone I have personally seen failures in the three top brands available to us (there are few other choices). By contrast, I have not had a single tire defect on any of my cars in the same period (and as many miles). This also includes trucks and their tires, which I abuse with reckless abandon.
Another gotcha is the horrendous inconsistency in quality, even in a known brand. I won't mention any here, but just because one size tire in your favorite brand causes no problems, doesn't mean a different size tire of the same brand will be similar in quality. When I change machines, I have to start testing tires for one I like (and that won't rapidly kill me) all over again. Even in the same brand and size, batches vary considerably in quality. I had one recent tire that needed 6-1/4 ounces of weight to balance it!
I take extensive trips, sometimes putting 10,000 miles or more on in a month, and it is expensive and difficult to get tires installed in the middle of the trip.
How many of you went through $1000+ worth of motorcycle tires last year? (Gad!)
How did you come up with this idea? I did not. It's not my idea. Motorcyclists have been customizing their machines since the very first guy looked at a wheel and said, "Wonder what happens if I strap an engine on it?" Others before me tried this out, and so I had an idea and input of what sizes would be appropriate for my machine. Also note, several machines already have used car-tires, including several early models of V-8 bikes and quite a few custom jobs. I am not alone out here.
Many folks have selected "different from stock" tires for their Valkyrie. Some want the fat rear tires, some don't like the OEM brand, some use smaller tires and even modify their shocks and forks (to lower the Valkyrie for a shorter inseam). Any and all of these change handling characteristics.
What will your insurance company think? If I were to ask them, my insurance company would say that riding motorcycles is inherently dangerous and not worth the risk. Don't do it at all. There are easier and cheaper ways to arrive at your destination. Nuff said?
What does the bike manufacturer think? If I were to ask them, they would say never to work on my own machine, only use OEM parts and tires, never, under any circumstances modify anything, and for heaven's sake only have them do any work needed. They of course, would also say that they are not liable for any work they do or parts they provide, and probably if I pressed them they would say that riding motorcycles is inherently dangerous and not worth the risk. Don't do it at all.
It is interesting to note that the only officially sanctioned tire for my motorcycle (the specific brand and model listed as the only "approved" tire in the manual) is no longer made or available. The OEM tire manufacturer lists a replacement model (which IS an improvement on the original) but the machine's manufacturer does not.
Does it fit? For the Valkyrie, a 205/60/16 provides nearly identical circumference to the original rear tire. When I first tried the car-tire there are not many tires (especially speed rated ones) made in that size however. A 205/55/16 fit fine, but due to its slightly smaller circumference, will increase your rpm at a given cruise speed slightly. My calculations say 300rpm at 80mph, but I have not bothered to verify that. Suffice it to say I did not notice any difference when I installed the tire. My most current tire is a 205/60/16 and I am really pleased with it. There are literally dozens of choices in that size now.
Some riders have installed a 205/65/16 on the Valkyrie also. This should slightly reduce the cruise rpm over stock. (shrugs).
The 205/55/16 installs with no modifications. The other two require that the fender bolt retainer cages be removed from the fender. Not a big deal. See how here
The Valkyrie speedometer reads the front wheel so no matter which one used, the accuracy will not be affected.
Did it affect your fuel mileage? No. My mileage is the same as it was in any given condition before the change.
How does it handle? I am happy with it. It is very smooth and stable at high speeds, and for me at least, at very low speeds (full deflection turns for instance) it is an improvement over the motorcycle tire. Basically, I've found it to be superior in all conditions.
There are two areas of difference in feel: It requires active counter-steering to put the bike in a corner. The Valkyrie has always required a firm hand, and this is not significantly different. The difference is that on the motorcycle tire, once the bike was stable in a corner, driver input on the handlebars is not really needed. The bike will stay in the turn unless power is applied or removed, or the terrain/surface of the road changes. With the car tire, the counter-steering input is required the entire time the bike is in the corner. If it is released, the bike will straighten up on its own. Those of you that push the twisties and know how to drag pegs (really know how to turn) will understand it right away.
The other difference is in what I'll call "bump steer" Varying terrain, such as a ridge on the road, a track in a dirt road, or an angle or crown to the road will give much more feedback than they do on a motorcycle tire. The bike will have the tendency to turn downhill. At highway speeds this is not an issue (not felt), at lower speeds, again, it requires a firm hand on the handlebars and the bike remains well behaved. It is just telling you what it feels on the road. You feel the steering inputs, you do not have to accept them. I prefer the feel, as it puts me much more in touch with what's going on with the road conditions.
The bike turns as aggressively as it ever did. This has not impacted my speeds or angles of lean in turns. I can still drag pegs when I want to, and it has not slowed me down a bit. I am much more confident in wet conditions and with hard braking.
What about grooved pavement? I found it to be an improvement, although the Valkyrie has always been well behaved. Grooved pavement does not bother me a bit with this tire. Neither do ridges or other pavement irregularities. My friend (on his XS1100) and I got into some of the worst grooved pavement I have seen just a few days after installing my first one. He was very uncomfortable, getting tossed around quite a bit. The Valkyrie did not care. I could feel it, but went straight and comfortable down the road. I also traveled many iron-grate bridges on my Alaska trip and was very confident and comfortable.
What about dirt/gravel roads? The bump steer comes into play, but overall the bike is stable and well behaved. I found that my speeds went way up on the same roads after I installed the car tire. On gravel/dirt the bike gets more stable at higher speed with the car tire, whereas with the motorcycle tire it seemed to get less stable the higher the speed. Note that I have always been comfortable on gravel/dirt roads, even on the Valkyrie. Alaska was the real test, I traveled hundreds of miles on gravel, sand, and mud. The Valkyrie ate it all up and begged for more. It was not unusual to find me doing in excess of 70mph on open stretches of the roads. Look here.
You're gonna die a flaming death. You can't drive on the sidewall! Hmmm . . . you're right, I can't drive on the sidewall. I'll keep you posted on the flaming death thing. No matter how far I lean the Valkyrie, I am never on the sidewall of this tire. It has molded in markings and the "rubber tits" from the mold process on the sidewall, and they remain pristine, untouched condition despite some very aggressive turning. I also set the bike over on its crash-bar one day to see where it rode, and it is not on the sidewall. All remains on the tread, and there is plenty of it. The contact patch of the car tire flattens on the bottom (as it is designed to do) keeping more half the tread on the pavement, even in full out, peg-dragging turns. The contact patch for the car-tire exceeds the size of the contact patch on the the only MC tire I had measured on this bike (Avon). An easy and fun way to measure is to find a street where water is running down it, that is otherwise dry (somebody watering the pavement again, a common thing here in Texas--I think they want it to grow). Ride the bike through the water and then into immediate peg-dragging turns. Then go look at the tracks. You'll be surprised.
How about braking? I have much more stopping power with the rear than before. As always, your fronts are your primary, but the back helps substantially. I would guess that I could out-brake most other Valkyries, and it should be noted that the Valkyrie, as compared with the rest of the cruisers, has outstanding brakes to begin with.
It's flat! How can it turn? Well, it's not really flat. This tire has a profile; it is just not as radical as the motorcycle tire. Remember that it is the back tire's job to stabilize the bike, in turning it is the front tire's job to de-stabilize the machine so it can lean into the turn. With the different profile, this back tire is just trying a bit harder to stabilize me. It does not reduce my turning response or authority. My line and speed into hard corners is unchanged, and I have the added benefit that I can absolutely slam the throttle exiting the curve without so much a squiggle. The Valkyrie on the stock tires or the Avon rear would spin it out from under you, resulting in all sorts of unpleasentness. One more advantage is that "flip-over"...that is, coming out of a hard turn in one direction to a hard turn in another direction is substantially easier and faster than on a standard tire.
It'll blow off the rim. The beads are different. Fiery death thing again. Untrue, the beads are the same. This tire is designed for this type of bead (the Valk rim/bead is identical to the rim/bead on the aluminum wheels on the wife's car. In addition, the tire's specs approve it for this width of rim (the Valkyrie rim is 16x5). As long as there is air in it, this tire isn't coming off. Indeed, on one occasion, I got three big screws in the rear car-tire. I felt it, and decided I could get it home. It had 5psi in it and was still rideable, although I wouldn't want to try dragging pegs with pressure that low.
Are you going to put one on the front? No. The front tire's job is profile dependant. It could be done, but substantial modification to the rake and angle of the steering head would be needed.
If you ruined this one today, would you put on another car tire? Yes . . . I am now on my third car-tire. I will not be going back to a mc tire on the back of this machine. I still have two Avon Venom R rear tires in the garage that I removed due to getting a flat (nails). I was out of "stinger" patches at the time, so I had to replace them. Between the two of them, there is probably 15,000 miles left to run. I'm not going to bother with them. They have been permanently repaired (stinger patches) and sit in my garage in case a friend or rider in our local group needs a tire fast (edit, I finally gave them away).
What did you look for in a car tire? I looked for a symmetric, directional tread pattern, with solid, beefy chunks of tread near the outer edges to minimize squirm. I liked the solid tread in the very center of the tires I've selected. . . this is a feature that helps make tires quiet, and it has helped. This tire is noticeably quieter than the motorcycle tire. I also looked for a high speed rating. In specific, the first tire I selected is the Yokohoma ES-100 series. 205/55/16, "Z" rated. I wore it out in the Yukon Territories and installed what they had (a Nokia 205/55/16). When I used that one up, and in preparation for my Route 66 run, I installed a Goodyear Assurance Triple Tread, 205/60/16. I'm quite happy with it. In my experience, "profile" and sidewall stiffness are pretty much irrelevant. I'll probably try the Toyo Proxis next (shrugs), not really sure.
How long did it take you to get used to it? I had the feel of it before I hit the end of the alley (1/4 mile?). I drove 3 blocks up to the nearby grocery store's parking lot and did a bunch of slow speed stuff. It was surprisingly easy. Figure eights, full deflection turns, emergency braking. All very nice. I was confident inside 10 blocks.
After about 200 miles I did not even notice the difference anymore. It is very much like getting off your machine . . . the one you have ridden for thousands of miles, and getting on a different brand or size of bike. It handles differently. Not worse, not better, just differently. You can handle it, and in a short time, you won't feel the difference.
What about front tire wear when you're running a car-tire? Better or worse? The same as far as I can tell. I run an Avon on the front, and got 21,000 miles out of it, including the Alaska trip. That's pretty good for me.
Are you going to do more testing? What's next? I've run these tires in all conditions, and in all speeds. I took my machine to Alaska and confidently rode in an amazing variety of extreme conditions, including mud, snow, sleet, sand, and gravel. I also rode twisties galore, super-slabs, and general putting about town. I've found no circumstances where the car-tire is a disadvantage.
Can I try yours to see if I like it? Usually not. It is a rare few that I let ride my machine . . . and I think if somebody just rode this a block and came back, they would be left with an incomplete impression. It really takes a few miles to get used to it.
Is it right for me? Well, if you have to ask me, then the answer is no. It's your machine, your skills, confidence, and comfort level. I do not find it limiting, unstable, or dangerous, despite some extreme riding under varying conditions, and intentionally pushing the envelope in more controlled areas.
What about cost? Cost is not my real motivator, but it is an advantage. I paid about $95 for the tire, and paid $20 to mount it. I can mount them myself now, as I bought all the stuff to do it, it just had not all come in yet. The last Avon I bought cost over $269 w/tax (cheaper on the internet) and cost the same $20 to mount. Others that are running car tires are reporting 20,000 and 30,000 and even more miles out of them (note, on the Valkyrie you still need to remove the rear wheel and lube the splines every 10,000 or so).
I'll spank you with my GX'er Okay, I get this one a lot. Not to put too fine a point on it, but aside from the rather bizarre sexual implications of that statement, you most certianly won't....at least not if I get to choose the course. Please note, the Valkyrie is a Heavy Cruiser, or what might be called a Power Cruiser. Loaded, it weighs over half a ton. Nothing I can do to this machine will make it outhandle a gummy-tired, 400-pound crotch-rocket in the corners. When I'm throwing sparks off the hard-parts and hanging off the side of the bike, that is the maximum cornering I can get, regardless of tire. What this means is that the Valkyrie is not made to spank your GX'er in the short term. It's made to cruise. That's what I bought it for, that's what I use it for. It corners remarkably well among the heavy cruisers, but it's still a heavy cruiser. Oh, my choice of course? Well, it has lot's of nice cornering roads...but it's 10,000 miles long and involves more than a dozen states, two countries, and a couple or three Canadian Provinces. There's several hundred miles of gravel involved too. Just how many tires can you carry on that GX'er, how deep is your pocketbook, and how fast can you change them on the road?
I've read what you said, but there is just no way it could work. Well thanks for so casually dismissing my 30-odd-years experience on motorcycles. Seriously though, I've put over 100,000 miles on car tires just on this bike. I've ridden many of the most challenging motorcycling roads North America has to offer. I've sacrificed enough chrome and thrown enough sparks to the road gods to go through several sets of riders pegs and crash guards. I consistently take this machine places where people tell me a cruiser has no business going. I've no real interest in debating whether it works or not. HOW it works is an interesting question. Whether it works is an irrational discussion at this point.
I'm still not convinced it's safe. It's not my job, intent, or duty to convince you of anything...especially the safety of motorcycle riding. But consider this: I ride, and ride hard. In the first 16,000 miles I had shredded 5 different motorcycle tires off the back of this machine...FIVE times I had to get this machine to a stop from high speed with a flat, shredded, or unseated tire and limited handling capability. These were not cheap or off-brand tires! Since I switched the rear to the Darkside, that's 100,000 miles now, I've had two rear flats...and both of those were ridable to get it home and/or the tire store to get it patched. Neither unseated or caused me any handling difficulty...it just felt wierd enough to get my attention. So, define safe?
Popular-ish among the V-Max and Rocket III crowds. More miles, superior straight line grip, acceptable cornering. Really pushed to the limits of handling a good sport-touring tires will perform better. On the street, on a cruiser making only 80 hp, you're never gonna push those limits. Nice bike, btw. And, to the dude ranting about bikes...yes, it is more dangerous than a car. You have to be smarter about what you're doing. You have to assume you are a target for everyone else on the road. You SHOULD dress as though you expect to crash. I went down at ~50 last year...bad front tire at only 6k miles. Slid into an Explorer. Totalled the bike, ruined my leather jacket, my jeans, my helmet. I wasn't wearing proper boots, so one came off. Other than bruises, my foot and my hip were the only injuries. Road rash sucks, but had I been wearing the right gear I wouldn't have gotten any. I got off the ground, picked up the bike, waited for the cop, swapped front wheels, and rode home.
IP: Logged
11:59 PM
Apr 2nd, 2010
jim94 Member
Posts: 1229 From: jacksonville, fl. usa Registered: Jan 2010
you have a great highway cruzer. nice motorcycle.i have an 1996 kaw. 800 vulcan classic, i have 58,000 miles on it. lots of highway rideing, jacksonville to daytona.im in love with the bikes at the rats hole show every year. i worked in a metric motorcycle shop in jax. selling parts, you honda guys are nuts. a 170 is a big tire for me, i have a scootworks belt drive system on mine, nothing to do but ride it, no lubeing or cleaning. i still own my bike but i had to give up riding , my back hurts too much.5 back surgerys, hay enjoy the bike. nice riding in wis. too.love the dells and the north woods.
IP: Logged
01:34 AM
IMSA GT Member
Posts: 10705 From: California Registered: Aug 2007
My only concern is that with motorcycle tires they are made with a compound that, as mentioned above, does everything but blow out like a car tire. Car tires explode and if you are cruising at a high speed and get a blow out, I could see the tire either flying off the rim or getting tangled under the fender. Either way, it may not be too good for you.....other than that, it looks good on your bike
IP: Logged
01:55 AM
phonedawgz Member
Posts: 17106 From: Green Bay, WI USA Registered: Dec 2009
Last time I replaced the rear tire on my Valkyrie, I considered doing the same thing. Concerned about handling characteristics. I've been told, "You just have to get used to it." Interested to know what it rides like, bring it on down and we'll do some cruisin.
The nice thing about a Valkyrie is, you don't have to down shift to pass just about anything, just roll that throttle.
Ron
[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 04-02-2010).]
So with my bike I was only getting 10,000 miles on a tire. So I had some of these laying around and figured wtf, might as well try it. What do you think?
My only concern is that with motorcycle tires they are made with a compound that, as mentioned above, does everything but blow out like a car tire. Car tires explode and if you are cruising at a high speed and get a blow out, I could see the tire either flying off the rim or getting tangled under the fender. Either way, it may not be too good for you.....other than that, it looks good on your bike
I think if someone on a motorcycle is going 70+MPH, and a tire "give" whether it blows, or just loses it's ability to hold air quickly will not matter. At the accident scene it'll still be caused by a faulty tire AKA, operator error.
I hear he doesn't wear his seat belt on that thing too .
Brad
IP: Logged
10:16 AM
phonedawgz Member
Posts: 17106 From: Green Bay, WI USA Registered: Dec 2009
I think if someone on a motorcycle is going 70+MPH, and a tire "give" whether it blows, or just loses it's ability to hold air quickly will not matter. At the accident scene it'll still be caused by a faulty tire AKA, operator error.
I hear he doesn't wear his seat belt on that thing too .
Brad
Bike tires are not just more expensive for less tire. Some of the crap I read here is just absurd.
The demands on a bike tike can be extreme. They are designed for many thing one being that they rarely blow out and if they do they hold together.
Using a car tire on a bike for the basic purpose of saving money is not smart.
IP: Logged
08:54 PM
Cheever3000 Member
Posts: 12400 From: The Man from Tallahassee Registered: Aug 2001
All the Boss Hoss' used to run car tires on the rear. Of course, with a SBC (350) on a motorcycle frame, it wasn't really meant to do anything other than go in a straight line.
IP: Logged
07:26 PM
Devotshka Member
Posts: 1000 From: Vero Beach, FL Registered: May 2001
Somewhere there must be a car with a motorcycle tire on it.
I got yer back:
I've seen a motorcycle after a car tire failure. It was nasty.
I'm glad someone on the internet said it was an awesome idea, but there's no way in hell I'd even ride with someone with one, let alone put that **** on my bike. I go through tires every 2500-3500 miles, but a $150 tire is not going to persuade me to put a $50 car tire on the thing.
. 
. 
